LGBT police officers are employed by an arm of institutional racism and and some of the people of color on the receiving end of this oppression will inevitably be LGBTQ+
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Toronto Police Union Wants Pride Funding Pulled After Floats Banned
- Thread starter CazTGG
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So black people should just suck it up?
excelsiorlef
Member
Pride is about rebellion, it is not about making your oppressors feel better about themselves.
Pride is not about your most vulnerable members being forced to march with the arm of the government that discriminates against and targets them....
capitalCORN
Member
We're well already passed that, people have been bitching about de-politicizing for at least a decade. And it's not just a parade, it's a week. It's all the parties, all the menus, all the flags hanging off every street. And why wait for an American movement to raise your voice? I've worked with enough queer gay Black men and women who most definitely feared their identity in public for a long time, especially around fellow Black colleagues. Not to mention the dancehall parties that play songs that denigrade or even fictionalize the murder of homosexuals. This is not the stage for a fight. It's sub optimal messaging and won't make a dent in the real lives of people. This is not the audience you need to target for real change. This isn't the age to through bricks anymore.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
A cop is still a cop.
The story you posted is a perfect example of what the person you quoted is saying.
Teletraan1
Banned
I don't see how anything is accomplished by preventing the police from having a float. Were the bad cops just going to get shamed out of being bad cops over a float in a parade? I knew this exact reaction would happen a year later after what went down last year. You don't search for inclusiveness and understanding by excluding people. This just sends some message that BLM Toronto thinks all cops are bad. Way to do exactly to another group that which you don't want done to you. Sure there is some shitty police officers. I have seen first hand an officer purger themselves on the stand and straight up lie about the facts of a case. That doesn't mean I think they are all liars. I just can't condone vilifying a whole group of people. I am not sure a lot will be done to help fix issues when both sides are not working together but at odds with each other. Congratulations I guess.
excelsiorlef
Member
Then it is time for it to die lest it become a weapon to attack the black queer community and shove their issues into the closet.
If Pride cannot stand as an action of activism then it should go the way of the dodo.
Fortunately Pride TO has yet to capitulate
Here I thought is was a celebration of self. What year do you think it is? Marching in support arm and arm is a weird idea of oppression.
excelsiorlef
Member
The police oppress, yes even in Canada, black folk and black queer folk.... We cannot and must not ask that they march arm and arm with an arm of the government that targets them...
Nothing says rebelling like cashing $260,000 checks from your government oppressors.
Phrozenflame500
Member
Yikes. I'm not sure the rational for withholding municipal funds is sound (the officers aren't exactly barred from attending), even though I generally support the inclusion of a police float overall and think this ban is pretty stupid. Very ugly situation.
Going to need some receipts on that one. Yes I am sure there are incidents but I in no way believe the Police in Canada as an establishment target and oppress blacks. You can't see the forest for the trees.
excelsiorlef
Member
A lot of activist and advocacy group get government funding....
But maybe you're right if they deny the funding... it's time to move on from looking to them.
Kite
Member
lol pretty much, you ban the police float then you don't get their $$. The pride parade can still continue without the $260,000, decisions have consequences.
SwipeLeftHoney
Banned
Go to Caribana and see how the police treat people there as oppose to how they treat people at the Pride parade. It's night and day.... Toronto cops are pretty racist.
excelsiorlef
Member
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/com...rmful-carding-practice-by-police-opinion.html
So all government funding must include embracing the police?
CyclopsRock
Member
Not all black people have a problem with the police in Canada. Not all people who have a problem with the police in Canada are black. Not all policemen are white. Not all gay policemen are white. Making it into a "blacks vs cops" argument removes agency from the individuals involved.
Yes, but at the same time don't you think it wouldn't be a little bit hypocritical to subsequently demand that that same government sponsor your event. I think that Pride can either be confrontational and political or it can be a large cultural celebration, but not both at once. Putting it in political terms instantly creates tension with involved parties in what at this point is the queer equivalent of corporate sponsored St. Patrick's Day.
Of course carding, its always carding. Writing your name on piece of paper that has no legal basis in a court of law is not fucking oppression. Yes its bullshit and stupid that it continues but this is "Canada Problems" and it stilly.
Kite
Member
.. wut? Reread your post, think about it and get back to me lol
excelsiorlef
Member
Hey if they can get money to fight the system from the system all power to them.... if they system demands they embrace the police then yes it is time to find a new funding source.
capitalCORN
Member
You've like, read the first sentence of my post and then decided to reply. As a bi minority male, I believe this not the place for this fight. Call me an old fart, but people seem to be caught up in the glamourization of radicalizing, because the Americans did it too, We had this kind of social movement before too, with Michie Mee and Kardinal, etc. And no one gave a flying fuck. So what's the impetus today? Instead of 10, 20 years ago?
excelsiorlef
Member
Why should government funding require that the police be allowed to march in uniform?
2Smashed4U
Banned
I definitely understand the point that cops, even if they are still LGBT, are still part of the institutionalized racism that cops often push.
At the same time....I have to imagine that being a cop is probably one job that could be harder than a lot to be openly out in, given the culture of masculinity and other nasty shit that's associated with it.
I don't know, this is kind of a tough one for me. I understand where BLM is coming from here, I know there are black LGBT people that are a part of the community. But they also share the same community with the LGBT cops, and Pride should represent all LGBT people who want it.
At the same time....I have to imagine that being a cop is probably one job that could be harder than a lot to be openly out in, given the culture of masculinity and other nasty shit that's associated with it.
I don't know, this is kind of a tough one for me. I understand where BLM is coming from here, I know there are black LGBT people that are a part of the community. But they also share the same community with the LGBT cops, and Pride should represent all LGBT people who want it.
I'm saying that Pride as it exists today doesn't exist to fight the system and hasn't for several years now. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a complete waste of time as an event (though I can see why some would argue it is)
Maybe ask yourself why a police man should not be allowed to march in uniform? Why the fuck should they take it off, should they not be proud of who and what they are? I think you're just trolling and will never realise how stupid this is.
excelsiorlef
Member
I think we simply disagree on this not being the right place for a fight... now granted I am tying in my lifelong issue with Pride, in that it has always felt as more of a show for queer folk to put on for the benefits of non queer folk... It's always felt to me like some sort of performance piece for amusement of non queer folk.
Who said anything about white cops?
Do you think BLM exists for no reason? There is clearly major issue with how police treat black people.
The focus should be on fixing that and then they can worry about their silly float.
It's the City's money, it is not from the police budget.
excelsiorlef
Member
I mean you've already dismissed my example of how they target black folk as not relevant... so I really don't know what else to tell you...
But yes I'm just trolling... That's always a great counter-argument.
Edit: Post 88 down below me addresses this really well so I want to echo and that post.
This whole thing is such a clusterfuck.
I really can't side with anyone on this. BLM, Pride, and the police have all fucked up in their own ways.
EDIT: There is still a part of me that probably sides with the police a bit more on this, since BLM initiated this situation. I take no issue with tackling oppression and voicing your opinion on the negative actions of police officers in Toronto, but removing them from the parade doesn't solve anything. It just furthers the "us vs. them" conflict and fractures any sense of unity and togetherness with police that was present during Pride. Having a police float is a good thing and doesn't stop BLM or other organizations from critiquing how the police treat ethnic, gender, and sexual minorities.
I really can't side with anyone on this. BLM, Pride, and the police have all fucked up in their own ways.
EDIT: There is still a part of me that probably sides with the police a bit more on this, since BLM initiated this situation. I take no issue with tackling oppression and voicing your opinion on the negative actions of police officers in Toronto, but removing them from the parade doesn't solve anything. It just furthers the "us vs. them" conflict and fractures any sense of unity and togetherness with police that was present during Pride. Having a police float is a good thing and doesn't stop BLM or other organizations from critiquing how the police treat ethnic, gender, and sexual minorities.
I'd advise you to actually read it because it most certainly is not.
Police officer is not an identity.
Police officers do not face oppression because of their skin color, gender identity or sexual orientation.
Police officers are a symbol of the system discrimination that the LGBTQ+ community, the black community and several other minorities face on a daily basis.
Police officers are the reason why Pride began in the first place: Pride was a response to the discriminatory raids conducted in the 1980s.
Why should they be allowed to parade in a uniform that represents the very oppression that Pride stood in opposition to?
IrishNinja
Member
sure looks that way for some folks here, yeah
i really wish more people knew/understood this
that's a mighty fine hot take you've got there, the #alllivesmatter movement still going strong
it's not the PD's $
thank you for this, it should've been obvious but dude was too busy on that high horse
How about making any kind of counter point or argument using logic and reason. If you think any person willing to march in support of pride as who and what they are should be banned from doing so you really do not get it. Start by providing more evidence of oppression than a policeman writing someones name on a piece of paper.
Absolutely, but it's not totally unreasonable to expect the state to put some sort of backing behind their employees (even if the employees in question happen to be one of the worst parts of government in this case)
Don't get me wrong, I wish that the police union would get told to fuck off here just as they should every other time a police union says something stupid, but in this case their complaints have a little merit.
Police did something not right but in fairness its a fairly new subject. A tribunal said it was wrong told them to fix their shit and you have one year to do it. The police said your right we will do ur best to fix our shit. Its a two year old story. Sounds like shit is working exactly as it should and the are evolving.
A Link to the Past
Banned
'Dat hot take. What's next? "Communists have jobs, I thought capitalism was evil?"
2Smashed4U
Banned
Do you really believe police officers don't face discrimination amongst themselves for sexual orientation or especially gender identity? Because I would find it incredibly hard to believe that a trans police officer wouldn't face a ton of obstacles from fellow cops.
Nothing like LGBTQ+ telling others what is and isn't an identity and who should and should not be excluded.
excelsiorlef
Member
Carding is a huge deal to the Toronto black community it's been written about in detail for several years now... that it doesn't mean anything to you doesn't make it not an actual relevant topic...
But here is more
And from Ottawa
http://www.torontoforall.ca/systemic-racism-by-the-numbers
capitalCORN
Member
Pride Toronto has a near 30 year history. If you're arguing about representation. Yes, the queer standard is the gay white male. There's a reason the lesbian parade takes place the day before, and yes, minorities get the shaft like always. But bringing BLM representation singles out Black queers. And like I said before, Toronto has a large Caribbean population, who had no problem going to dancehall parties for decades, listening to lyrics that glorify the murder of so called 'faggotry'. This about face may be the tides changing, but I can still have my doubts.
Excuse me? What fucking bullshit is this? You can't be saying what I think you're saying.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I think what they're trying to say is that when a trans police officer is oppressed, it is because of gender, not their profession.
Your reply was more biting when it was just "Excuse me?"
EDIT: Jeez you're turning your post into an essay at this rate
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