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LTTP: Banjo-Kazooie

S

shandy706

Member
Salty Hippo said:
Kyle Bosman hates Rare and Banjo-Kazooie made into his top-20 games ever when he played it for the first time last year. If that isn't a testament to its quality and holdupness, I don't know what is.

Enjoy one of the best endgames in gaming history, OP.
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How do you hate a game developer when you've never even played some of their best games?
 
S

Skyzard

Banned
It's a shame it can't come to the Switch due to licensing/ip issues, would have been nice on WiiU too for the VC - mainly to play it as a handheld game as I think it would be decent in bed lazy title. Maybe the only way is to run an emulator and stream to an nvidia shield with bluetooth controllers.
 
L

Lothar

Banned
VDenter said:
Its a great game but i will never understand how anybody can prefer it over Mario 64.
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Well because Banjo is a great game but Mario 64 was simply great for its time and very flawed by the time Banjo came out. I tried to replay Mario64 recently and couldn't get through it. The camera was too frustrating, the controls too awkward.
 
O

orborborb

Member
I disagree, but I can understand someone preferring Banjo Kazooie over Mario 64. Banjo Tooie has some fun stuff in it, but once you've played a lot of other games you realize just how little there is to engage you for long portions of the game due to how spread out it is instead of being layered. Still better than Donkey Kong 64 though.
 
P

paragonpro

Banned
Its my favorite 3d platformer of all time. Everything from the music to the atmopshere is top tier. Levels are the perfect size unlike tooie, and the cast of characters are so memorable. In particular mumbo jumbo and kazooie with her snarky remarks. Imo its video game perfection. Treasure trove cove has some of my favorite music in gaming. And freezeezy peak just makes me feel like its christmas time
 
S

SoundPulse

Banned
I wouldn't necessarily say Super Mario 64 is better than Banjo-Kazooie, or vice versa. They're both 3D platformers, but they set out to do different things. Mario 64 is much more action focused, whereas Banjo is much more exploration focused. It's more a matter of which appeals to you more.

As for Tooie, it's not quite as good, in my opinion, but it's still enjoyable enough. It's a very good example of why bigger isn't always better. There's definitely a sense of Rare adding more stuff and making every level too big just for the sake of it. It doesn't go as far off the deep end as DK64 does, however.
 
Salty Hippo

Salty Hippo

Member
Saucestin_Roast said:
Damn. When did he say it's in his top 20? That's crazy.
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During one of his streams. He streamed the whole playthrough. He also said that "it might crack top-10" at the time, though it's unclear where the game ultimately stood for him.

shandy706 said:
How do you hate a game developer when you've never even played some of their best games?
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Because character designs. It's a shame, because Rare is one of the best studios there has ever been in terms of pouring attention to detail and context to their games, which are things Bosman loves so much.

He grew up with PlayStation and has stated before that the N64 was a garbage box, what can you do? Granted, he said that before ever touching games like SM64 and Banjo and ended up loving those games, so at least he has shown he can be open minded.
 
G

Grassy

Member
Alter_Fridge said:
Does anyone here like DK64?

Personally I 100%ed it and loved it :p
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I enjoyed what I played of it, despite it being heavy with the collect-a-thon. I think I made it to the 4th or 5th level, one with giant mushrooms...I want to go back and 100% it one day.
 
M

MegaManTrigger

Banned
Spladam said:
OP, those screens are from emulation on PC yes?
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I just grabbed whatever came to mind from google images in relation to showing off stuff about the game. I don't have the hardware to actually screengrab stuff from my own N64. I wasn't trying to bamboozle people if that's what you're getting at.
 
Spladam

Spladam

Member
MegaManTrigger said:
I just grabbed whatever came to mind from google images in relation to showing off stuff about the game. I don't have the hardware to actually screengrab stuff from my own N64. I wasn't trying to bamboozle people if that's what you're getting at.
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No, I was just curious. They looked rather sharp. It's great you get to play it on the original hardware though, good job.
 
K

kobba

Neo Member
I still play banjo-kazooie each year (well maybe more) and I still love every second of it. Possibly my all time favourite game. I'm just hoping yooka-laylee lives up to the hype for me.
 
M

MegaManTrigger

Banned
Wedzi said:
You might enjoy this video. It does a great job talking about the creative differences between Mario 64 and Banjo and why Banjo resonates more with some people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KefouzkH7k
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I definitely agree with her points. Even coming off of modern games, I thought the way Banjo-Kazooie handled level theming and atmosphere was top notch. Interestingly, idk if it's because of the hardware but games during this era has fantastic choice of colour and lighting. Even though they are completely different games, BK's colour and lighting reminded of the way Majora's Mask looked.
 
Heavy's Sandvich

Heavy's Sandvich

Member
Coincidentally, I've been playing this over the last few days, just got 100 jiggies and 900 notes.

If you think this game is better than Super Mario 64, get that ass banned.
 
M

muetimueti

Neo Member
Honestly I'm a bit surprised that someone only playing it today still enjoyed the game as much as you did OP, but it's great to hear! I love the game and have replayed it frequently throughout my childhood and a bit beyond, but I honestly wasn't sure how much of that came down to nostalgia and the initial wow-effect (since it was my first proper 3D-title). Glad to hear it holds up even for new players!
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Brings a tear to my eye to see someone late to Banjo in 2017 and still enjoy the heck out of it and its bangin' soundtrack.
 
R

ramparter

Banned
Skyzard said:
It's a shame it can't come to the Switch due to licensing/ip issues, would have been nice on WiiU too for the VC - mainly to play it as a handheld game as I think it would be decent in bed lazy title. Maybe the only way is to run an emulator and stream to an nvidia shield with bluetooth controllers.
Click to expand...
With Phil Spencer you never know. But Nintendo will have to give that green light to goldeneye
 
S

Space_nut

Member
Playing through this too for the first time. Such an amazing adventure/platforming till this day. Hopefully a brand new one is coming soon
 
Susurrus

Susurrus

Member
Another benefit of the Xbox version is they implement Stop-n-Swap via reading each other's save games. Adds a bit extra to the game and shows what was intended for the original on N64.

I think it further transfers into N&B, though I have yet to play it (has been in my backlog since I played through BK and BT on 360 in 2009 or so...I'll get to it one day I promise).
 
C

Celine

Member
MegaManTrigger said:
This is probably going to be controversial, but so far with just one level left to fully complete (Click Clock Wood), I love this game a lot more than I love Super Mario 64, and I think it's the superior game over SM64.
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Super Mario 64, Banjo & Kazooie, Rayman 2 and Rocket Robot on wheels are the best 3D Platform game on N64 (therefore of the generation) however they all take a different approach to the genre therefore preferring one over another sometime is more a question of taste.
 
1morerobot

1morerobot

Member
MegaManTrigger said:
I definitely intend to try Tooie with how many glowing reviews I've heard both online and offline. The only N64 game that I'm apprehensive about for the same reasons people are negative on Tooie (as far as huge levels and tedium are concerned) is DK64.
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You know what, I really loved DK64 back in the day. I never did finish it though. I might have to do that. Nothing like wiping out a 20-year old backlog entry.

lol
 
C

Camjo-Z

Member
Alter_Fridge said:
Does anyone here like DK64?

Personally I 100%ed it and loved it :p
Click to expand...

DK64 is kind of fun at times but 100%ing it is a boring and tedious affair. The entire game basically just consists of going somewhere with one Kong only to discover you need to come back with 3 others just to collect a few items each.

Susurrus said:
Another benefit of the Xbox version is they implement Stop-n-Swap via reading each other's save games. Adds a bit extra to the game and shows what was intended for the original on N64.

I think it further transfers into N&B, though I have yet to play it (has been in my backlog since I played through BK and BT on 360 in 2009 or so...I'll get to it one day I promise).
Click to expand...

In Nuts & Bolts it gives you some mostly pointless vehicle cosmetics as well as some pretty cool fanmade vehicle blueprints if you own the L.O.G.'s Lost Challenges DLC, such as a transforming robot and a replica of Ugger from Banjo-Tooie.
 
M

MegaManTrigger

Banned
muetimueti said:
Honestly I'm a bit surprised that someone only playing it today still enjoyed the game as much as you did OP, but it's great to hear! I love the game and have replayed it frequently throughout my childhood and a bit beyond, but I honestly wasn't sure how much of that came down to nostalgia and the initial wow-effect (since it was my first proper 3D-title). Glad to hear it holds up even for new players!
Click to expand...

I think it's a bit of YMMV. There are some wonky things like awkward swimming and controls that take a bit of getting used to. I can see how players wouldn't be happy with that, whereas I'm used to older games and their awkward aspects so I felt right at home with Banjo-Kazooie.

To whoever said Click Clock Wood is a masterpiece, you are so right. By far my favourite level to explore in BK.
 
W

War Raichu

Member
Stopdoor said:
Did they ever patch the music being out of sync with the intro cutscene in Tooie? Really ruins some great scenes in an otherwise perfect port.
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no because iirc this is the result of the game originally running sub 30 fps and the music being composed to sync with it.

This is an issue if you emulate it as well.
 
S

Schopenhauerian

Member
Spukc said:
I understand why sigeru hated donkey kong country.
europe beat them at their own damn game
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Some interesting posts on this subject: one / two / three

Also:
http://www.ign.com/articles/1997/06/19/e3-through-the-eyes-of-miyamoto-pt-2
IGN (June 1997)
IGN: What are your impressions of Banjo-Kazooie, and what was your involvement in the game?
Miyamoto: I'm very impressed with the game, and Rare is a very professional company. I had no involvement at all with the game.
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http://randomhoohaas.flyingomelette.com/bl/onm/onmems-25a.JPG
Official Nintendo Magazine (January 1998)
Miyamoto: ...The other extreme is Rare. Its games are similar to Nintendo's, but the quality is extremely high. Rare's been able to make Nintendo 64 games which are even better-looking than our own. It's scary! I've worked alongside members of Rare, and their standards are very high...
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http://web.archive.org/web/20110911...oshrine.com:80/theman/interviews/170498.shtml
Famitsu Magazine (April 1998)
Famitsu: Banjo-Kazooie the game is slated for a June release in the US but will not be released until the fall in Japan.
Miyamoto: This is one of the reasons Zelda got delayed. This game [Banjo-Kazooie] is so great and we have to compete.
Famitsu: Could you explain in concrete terms what makes the game [Banjo-Kazooie] great?
Miyamoto: I try not to see the game. (laughs) If I see it, I may be affected by it. Graphically and technically [Banjo-Kazooie] achieves high levels. It played fine last fall, but wasn't released. (laugh) They've developed it more. If you want to enjoy a 3D action title, this may be the best choice. If we have the momentum (in Japan), this will be dominant in the market.
Famitsu: Can we write that you were "affected" by this one?
Miyamoto: Sure, you can. We and Rare are rivals. I'm not sure this character design will be accepted (by the Japanese audience), but this is fun.
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http://www.ign.com/articles/1999/01/30/sensei-speaks
IGN (January 1999)
IGN: What did you think of Rare's Banjo-Kazooie?
Miyamoto: Yes, I admit that Banjo-Kazooie is a very high quality videogame. Talking about the 3D system, for example, it had a lot better 3D system than Mario 64 -- and they have come up with some great technology. For example, they have lots of enemies at the same time on screen.
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http://web.archive.org/web/20110702...oshrine.com:80/theman/interviews/051300.shtml
Nintendo Power Source (May 2000)
NPS: How do you feel about Nintendo's line-up at E3 2000, particulary Rare's great offerings?
Miyamoto: We are very thankful that Rare is creating such great games. Rare has done a lot for the gaming industry. All of Rare's games are 3D, but they all have very different gameplay. They are encouraging us to create a different genre of games that departs from 3D adventure gaming.
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http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/06...to-likes-donkey-kong-country-after-all?page=3
IGN (June 2010)
IGN: I was interviewing them earlier, and even though you weren't directly involved you were definitely very inspirational in making sure certain things were done in that game correctly. I'm wondering, which parts of Donkey Kong Country did you like versus not like? And what did you address with them?
Miyamoto: The first point that I want to make is that I actually worked very closely with Rare on the original Donkey Kong Country. And apparently recently some rumor got out that I didn't really like that game? I just want to clarify that that's not the case, because I was very involved in that. And even emailing almost daily with Tim Stamper right up until the end. And with this game too, I'll be involved on a check/confirmation level, looking over the game and checking the content. So it'll probably be a similar role to what I played in the development of Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. In terms of things that I really wanted to see them focus on, particularly was the idea that in the original Donkey Kong Country the rendering and the effects that they used were very different from what you'd see in a Mario game. It had a very distinct feel. I thought it was important for them to keep that in mind…
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Glowsquid said:
...in an interview Retrogamer magazine did with Gregg Mayles (DKC's lead designer) in 2010 had Mayles saying Miyamoto was actually one of the people who approved of DKC when he went to demo it at Nintendo's HQ (it was Gunpei Yokoi who didn't like it)
https://www.nowgamer.com/the-making-of-donkey-kong-country/
...Nintendo is known to be extremely shielding towards its IPs, so handing over one of its most iconic franchises is something that you’d expect would attract a tremendous amount of protocol and interference from the game giant, but Gregg says this wasn’t the case.

“Nintendo were extremely busy at the time so we were left to ourselves,” he says. “It was an unprecedented thing for them to do, entrusting one of their most prominent and fondly remembered IP’s with a relatively small and unknown UK development house. I was young and naive enough not to realise just how crucial this game was for Rare – all I wanted to do was create a game that could be remembered. Miyamoto provided us with some suggestions for DK’s look and it was a sketch of his that included the tie.”

[...]

We made a memorable visit to Nintendo’s HQ in Japan. I was surprisingly calm at the time, despite it being my first visit to what many would class as the Mecca of videogames,” says Gregg. “We were there to demo an early version of the game to the people that created the original character. It was the first time many of the people at Nintendo had seen the game, and our radical approach with the graphics didn’t initially go down too well. Mr Yokoi [Game Boy creator] remarked that ‘It looked too 3D’. Miyamoto was much quicker to appreciate what we had done and gave his approval. Mr Miyamoto and his staff used their unparalleled experience to give us some input on how we could smooth out a few rough edges and suggested that DK would look good with a hand-slap move. We thought this would be cool too, so even though we were only a few weeks away from the deadline we included it.”
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TunaLover said:
[Phil] Tossell’s comments came about when asked if Nintendo ever shared code with Rare considering the Big N had a large stake in the company.

He said [in 2013]:
No, we never had the Zelda engine or any code they did! We did see an early version of Zelda and that was a big influence on Dinosaur Planet, though. Nintendo were often quite envious of us. I got the feeling they thought our games were technically and artistically superior to theirs. Miyamoto would visit regularly and I heard a rumor they redid all of the textures on Zelda after they’d seen our work on Banjo-Kazooie because our game looked better!

http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-were-often-quite-envious-of-us-says-former-rare-staffer/
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http://web.archive.org/web/20110911...oshrine.com:80/theman/interviews/170498.shtml
Famitsu Magazine (April 1998)
Famitsu: Banjo-Kazooie the game is slated for a June release in the US but will not be released until the fall in Japan.
Miyamoto: This is one of the reasons Zelda got delayed. This game [Banjo-Kazooie] is so great and we have to compete.
Famitsu: Could you explain in concrete terms what makes the game [Banjo-Kazooie] great?
Miyamoto: I try not to see the game. (laughs) If I see it, I may be affected by it. Graphically and technically [Banjo-Kazooie] achieves high levels. It played fine last fall, but wasn't released. (laugh) They've developed it more. If you want to enjoy a 3D action title, this may be the best choice. If we have the momentum (in Japan), this will be dominant in the market.
Famitsu: Can we write that you were "affected" by this one?
Miyamoto: Sure, you can. We and Rare are rivals. I'm not sure this character design will be accepted (by the Japanese audience), but this is fun.
Click to expand...

Ridley327 said:
Screens are also a bad way to judge those two games, too, since Yoshi's Island had way better animation and the Super FX-enabled sprite tricks they were able to pull off are still mind-blowing. But hey, people love their pre-rendered CG sprites! I think that I had read that Aonuma felt that the Zelda team needed to raise the bar for Skyward Sword's graphics after MH3 came out, since they felt that game was representing the high bar they wanted to clear, so it's not exactly all that surprising that Nintendo would have felt the same way during Rare's heyday, in terms of tech. I know that they seriously busted their ass to get F-Zero X running at 60 fps, for example.
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Lunar15 said:
Honestly? This sounds like it was a positive competitive environment. It forced both studios to work even harder to top the other. Anyone who played Rare and Nintendo's games from that time know that they were really great and visually surprising. I think the Metroid Prime Trilogy are three of the most visually stunning games Nintendo's ever put out. I'd have to wonder if Nintendo felt internally envious of what they pulled off there. If only Team Ninja had gotten nearly as envious.
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http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/donkey-kong-country-returns/0/0
Kensuke Tanabe: Okay. I'll never forget April 2008... I already talked about this around the time of E3 when we did a session of "Iwata Asks" for Donkey Kong Country Returns, but there was a bit of an incident when several of the core members at Retro Studios who had worked on the Metroid Prime series quit the company. I didn't know what to do, but about that time, and totally by chance, Miyamoto-san said he wanted to make a new  Donkey Kong Country game and asked if there were any good possible developers for it. I suggested Retro Studios, and that's how this project began.
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http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...the_list_of_candidates_for_a_new_metroid_game
Andy Green, Nintendo Life: During the interview [from late 2013], Miyamoto revealed he is a great admirer of the work of Retro Studios, the developer behind the Metroid Prime series and Donkey Kong Country Returns, and said it would be high on the list of potential candidates to pick up the Metroid franchise once again... According to Retro Studios president and CEO Michael Kelbaugh, the developer had the chance to work on Metroid or Donkey Kong Country and opted for the latter because it had unfinished business with the [DKC] series...
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http://web.archive.org/web/20110910...oshrine.com:80/theman/interviews/081403.shtml
Official Nintendo Magazine (Sep 2003)
OFFICIAL NINTENDO MAGAZINE: We get the impression that Rare didn't work very closely with Nintendo to polish up its last few games, especially Starfox Adventures.
MIYAMOTO: Rare is a rather independent company and it has the capacity to work independently. In the case of the original DKC, because I was concerned about the outcome, I was checking and putting in comments myself, especially during the last few months. At the very beginning, my personal involvement was ten percent. This lessened as the sequels went on, but of course other people at Nintendo were always involved. The total involvement was always around ten per cent and this was mainly from my people.
ONM: Starfox Adventures just didn't feel like a Nintendo game; it didn't feel like you had your hands on it at all, much less than ten percent.
MIYAMOTO: Almost everything was done by Rare, except we specifically advised the use of the control stick.
ONM: You didn't tell them, for example, to get rid of the 100 or 200 stupid things you had to collect in every single level?
MIYAMOTO: [laughs] That was a little bit extreme, yes. But, in general, they were good. I'd like to emphasize that our separation from Rare [in 2002, Rare was purchased by Microsoft] wasn't due to creative differences. It was financial.
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http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/12/feature_the_making_of_star_fox_adventures
by Damien McFerran
...With the Star Fox branding established, [Phil] Tossell and the rest of the team worked tirelessly on the game with surprisingly little interference from Nintendo. “On the whole we worked very independently,” explains Tossell. “We had an initial trip to Nintendo's headquarters in Kyoto for about a week where we discussed the changes that would be required to make the game fit in well with the Star Fox universe. Sitting in a room discussing gameplay ideas with Miyamoto-san is certainly one of the highlights of my career and I still have his business card carefully stored away. I also remember going to an Italian restaurant for lunch near to the offices with Miyamoto-san and talking about all sorts of things. I'm not one to get starstruck, but that's probably the one time in my life where I felt a little bit overawed… ”

...Working under Nintendo was an eye-opening experience for Tossell, who is full of praise for the Japanese company. “Without doubt of all the time I've worked in the industry it was the most trusting and respectful relationship,” he says. “Of course, it helped because technically Rare was independent - Nintendo only owned 49% of the company, as far as I am aware. This meant that the Stamper Brothers [Rare's founders] didn't have to do anything they didn't want to. This contrasts sharply with how it is now where Microsofts own the whole company. Even accounting for that though, Nintendo knows games - its knows them inside and out and knows when something needs to be pushed and prodded and when it doesn't. And it understands that if you push and prod too much then you destroy any spark that a game may have. It's a delicate balancing act that Nintendo made look easy...”
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M

MegaManTrigger

Banned
Now that I've collected everything there needs to be collected in Click Clock Wood, now I've just got the final boss/area. I hope it's memorable and made this great game even more great at the end.
 
daTRUballin

daTRUballin

Member
Salty Hippo said:
Kyle Bosman hates Rare and Banjo-Kazooie made into his top-20 games ever when he played it for the first time last year. If that isn't a testament to its quality and holdupness, I don't know what is.

Enjoy one of the best endgames in gaming history, OP.
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Kyle Bosman hates Rare? I thought he was a huge fan of Battletoads too?

I guess I haven't watched much of GameTrailers or Easy Allies then.
 
M

Macapala

Unconfirmed Member
Alter_Fridge said:
Does anyone here like DK64?

Personally I 100%ed it and loved it :p
Click to expand...

I loved it as a kid. As an adult though..... it's terrible. The poor controls, the shitty camera, the annoying mini games.... I could go on.
 
M

MegaManTrigger

Banned
After seeing how pleasant and fun this game is, Grunty's Furnance "Fun" takes that and grinds to a screeching halt. By far my least favourite part of the game. It's mostly the timed challenges and instant death pits that annoy me, especially when you've made such good progress.
 
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