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[DouglasteR]

More like DA:I? Good. Because DA:I was a better game than Mass Effect 2 and 3.

 

[K.Jack]

1) Afaik you had to do a certain amount of sidestuff to gain power to progress the main story
2) People aren't complaining about sidestuff existing, but about sidestuff being 99% shitty mmo kill 20 enemies, collect 10 shards type of missions with no narrative payoff

Are the shards hunts mandatory? I got distracted and quit DA:I pretty early, but even then I was thinking that I didn't want anything to do with those.

If the shard hunts can't be skipped, I'll likely never pick it back up again.

 

[Foxhound286]

Are the shards hunts mandatory? I got distracted and quit DA:I pretty early, but even then I was thinking that I didn't want anything to do with those.

If the shard hunts can't be skipped, I'll likely never pick it back up again.

No, they are completely optional.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Whelp

 

[J_Viper]

More like DA:I? Good. Because DA:I was a better game than Mass Effect 2 and 3.

This is the most incorrect opinion made all week

 

[- J - D -]

The DA:I name drop made me shiver, for real.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

Large, explorable maps akin to DA:I is a huge step-up from the corridors of Mass Effect 2 and 3 in my opinion.

 

[jesu]

Are the shards hunts mandatory? I got distracted and quit DA:I pretty early, but even then I was thinking that I didn't want anything to do with those.

If the shard hunts can't be skipped, I'll likely never pick it back up again.

no, you can completely ignore the shard shit.

 

[TheChundertaker]

Just seeing DA:I mentioned...

 

[J_Viper]

no, you can completely ignore the shard shit.

Thing is, you can totally skip all that boring, inconsequential side-content in DAI.

However, that leaves you with only the main quests, which are equally awful.

That whole game is just a misfire in nearly every aspect, aside from a few characters that I very much enjoyed. Even at their worst, Bioware can still craft (mostly) likeable characters.

That Asari Sera though....what the fuck were they thinking?

 

[Artdayne]

More like DA:I? Good. Because DA:I was a better game than Mass Effect 2 and 3.

ME 3 was the second best Bioware game since KOTOR, with DA:O being the best.

 

[RoboticWater]

Thing is, you can totally skip all that boring, inconsequential side-content in DAI.

However, that leaves you with only the main quests, which are equally awful.

That whole game is just a misfire in nearly every aspect, aside from a few characters that I very much enjoyed. Even at their worst, Bioware can still craft (mostly) likeable characters.

That Asari Sera though....what the fuck were they thinking?

What? "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts" is one of the most well designed quests in a BioWare game ever and quite well-written too. Just about every other main quest had an interesting narrative arc, visually stunning setpieces, wonderful production value, and decently made encounters. The gameplay is what it is, but Inquisition's main quest absolutely nails its epic battles and certainly isn't a slouch when it comes to neat premises and intimate moments.

 

[OneUh8]

Sounds fantastic. #1 on my anticipated list.

 

[EatChildren]

What? "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts" is one of the most well designed quests in a BioWare game ever and quite well-written too. Just about every other main quest had an interesting narrative arc, visually stunning setpieces, wonderful production value, and decently made encounters.

Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts hinges your extent of your ability to engage in diplomacy on random trinkets laying around for literally no reason that cannot be acquired once missed and are required to unlock a door to discover a thing.

 

[royox]

My gosh at least read the whole thing!

...due to top level philosophical level approach with open world gameplay elements, more places to explore, more optional content, squad loyalty missions which are optional and dont affect ending, entire planets optional but looks like fewer planets than ME1 but are large like dragon age size levels and provide a large level of variety

It's comparing with Inquisition because of the open areas. Remember ME2 and ME3 were just corridors full of enemies.

 

[RoboticWater]

Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts hinges your extent of your ability to engage in diplomacy on random trinkets laying around for literally no reason that cannot be acquired once missed and are required to unlock a door to discover a thing.

But discovering that thing is entirely optional. That's why its well designed. The quest has you doing a number of different things other than combat to navigate an entirely political scenario. I thought it was a great change of pace for Inquisition, really playing to BioWare's strength in characters. Admittedly, it would have been nice if the trinkets didn't seem as arbitrary, and I wish there had been more than a few ways to solve some of the different problem, but overall, it's more mechanically and tonally sophisticated (or at the very least, unique) than many other Dragon Age quests.

 

[mosdl]

My gosh at least read the whole thing!



It's comparing with Inquisition because of the open areas. Remember ME2 and ME3 were just corridors full of enemies.

But if you say its like Witcher 2 areas, people become happy. Its funny that way

 

[Rellik]

DA:I? Oh god no.

It better not have the DA:I character creator either. Or if my character is going to end up looking completely different to what I created at least allow me to edit it like Saints Row did.

 

[JeffZero]

But discovering that thing is entirely optional. That's why its well designed. The quest has you doing a number of different things other than combat to navigate an entirely political scenario. I thought it was a great change of pace for Inquisition, really playing to BioWare's strength in characters. Admittedly, it would have been nice if the trinkets didn't seem as arbitrary, and I wish there had been more than a few ways to solve some of the different problem, but overall, it's more mechanically and tonally sophisticated (or at the very least, unique) than many other Dragon Age quests.

I agree with this.

Inquisition is a good, albeit especially flawed, game. I happen to feel similarly toward ME1.

 

[Frankenstrat]

You forgot Kai Leng?

Anyways. We'll just have to wait and see for ME: Andromeda

Everyone forgot Kai Leng. After leaving this thread I'll probably forget him again.

 

[EatChildren]

But discovering that thing is entirely optional. That's why its well designed. The quest has you doing a number of different things other than combat to navigate an entirely political scenario. I thought it was a great change of pace for Inquisition, really playing to BioWare's strength in characters. Admittedly, it would have been nice if the trinkets didn't seem as arbitrary, and I wish there had been more than a few ways to solve some of the different problem, but overall, it's more mechanically and tonally sophisticated (or at the very least, unique) than many other Dragon Age quests.

I love the change of pace and welcome it, but don't agree at all that it's mechanically sophisticated. That the aforementioned grievance was optional is good. That the means in which you engage with that option is arbitrary and senseless is what bothers me, and the exact opposite of mechanically sophisticated; a lazy collect-a-thon game system that has no contextual relevance of any kind yet has a significant, weighting consequence on a quest arc that is supposed to be social heavy.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, but yeah. I see a lot of people loving Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, but for me it utterly personifies a complete failure in executing the kind of quest it wanted to be. I loathe it with a burning passion.

 

[Bessy67]

DA:I? Oh god no.

It better not have the DA:I character creator either. Or if my character is going to end up looking completely different to what I created at least allow me to edit it like Saints Row did.

There was a free DLC (Black Emporium) that did let you change your character's appearance.

 

[Renekton]

But if you say its like Witcher 2 areas, people become happy. Its funny that way

GAFers have double standards.

• Witcher 3 picking herbs? Fine.
• DA:I picking herbs? Bad MMO grindfest
• Witcher 3 mandatory escort narcoleptic dwarf? Fine
• DA:I optional escort cow? Bad MMO escort quest

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Thing is, you can totally skip all that boring, inconsequential side-content in DAI.

However, that leaves you with only the main quests, which are equally awful.

That whole game is just a misfire in nearly every aspect, aside from a few characters that I very much enjoyed. Even at their worst, Bioware can still craft (mostly) likeable characters.

That Asari Sera though....what the fuck were they thinking?

The quality varies greatly some main quests are even almost as bad as the sidequests but there's also a ton of great missions. The combat aside from the atrocious AI is great and the cast is the best in any Dragon Age game, there's a lot to hate about DAI but there's also a lot to love.

What? "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts" is one of the most well designed quests in a BioWare game ever and quite well-written too. Just about every other main quest had an interesting narrative arc, visually stunning setpieces, wonderful production value, and decently made encounters. The gameplay is what it is, but Inquisition's main quest absolutely nails its epic battles and certainly isn't a slouch when it comes to neat premises and intimate moments.

Yes, I've done that quest at least 5 times already.

Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts hinges your extent of your ability to engage in diplomacy on random trinkets laying around for literally no reason that cannot be acquired once missed and are required to unlock a door to discover a thing.

During times of hold batman sense / eagle vision to follow line to not incentivize rummaging around that was a nice change of pace. There's a decent amount of ways for the mission to play out to varying results and complete ambiguity to what is the right choice in the end.

There was a free DLC (Black Emporium) that did let you change your character's appearance.

free dlc

 

[Son Of Sparda]

Meaningless fetch quests haven't been mentioned.
DA:I size areas in a sci-fi style to explore have been.

"Yes guys we are proud to announce that ME:A will feature meaningless MMO-style fetch quests that everyone hated in DA:I. Please look forward to them!"

Come on, man.

 

[RoboticWater]

I love the change of pace and welcome it, but don't agree at all that it's mechanically sophisticated. That the aforementioned grievance was optional is good. That the means in which you engage with that option is arbitrary and senseless is what bothers me, and the exact opposite of mechanically sophisticated; a lazy collect-a-thon game system that has no contextual relevance of any kind yet has a significant, weighting consequence on a quest arc that is supposed to be social heavy.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, but yeah. I see a lot of people loving Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, but for me it utterly personifies a complete failure in executing the kind of quest it wanted to be. I loathe it with a burning passion.

Honestly, had the halla statues been keys, the quest would have been like many other great RPG quests that involve investigating an area. They really should have been keys, but their presence adds another angle to the other dialog/espionage mechanics. They're a simple device, but given that you're on a timer for most of the mission, I think it's for the best that you aren't doing anything much more time-consuming. Going off the main path is dangerous enough. And in stark contrast to the shards, most of the statues are hidden in somewhat interesting places that reward sleuthing rather than your ability to move towards a bright glowing item in your map.

 

[breakfuss]

Almost dropped my phone when I read that Dragon Age comparison line. Fuck that, seriously.

 

[JeffZero]

Man, sometimes I feel like an alien around here for liking Inquisition as much as I do! I certainly hope the worlds are designed better with greater narrative relevance, but there's so much I dig with that game.

 

[AJ_Wings]

You forgot Kai Leng?

Anyways. We'll just have to wait and see for ME: Andromeda

Oh, Kai Leng is pretty memorable... for all the wrong reasons. He did send you an email that was the equivalent of an Xbox Live rage message from a 12 year old. Can't forget that shit...

 

[Bulby333]

I really liked Dragon Age Inquisition so I wouldn't mind seeing some of the open world elements in a Mass Effect game, just as long as it's not too much. But having more Mass Effect 1 elements is making me pretty excited for Andromeda.

 

[RoboticWater]

Man, sometimes I feel like an alien around here for liking Inquisition as much as I do! I certainly hope the worlds are designed better with greater narrative relevance, but there's so much I dig with that game.

BioWare didn't exactly make it easy for people to like it, but I think the internet echo-chamber of hardcore gamers came down on it far too swiftly and far too harshly. There's a good game there with great characters, a decent story (that does play it far too safe with the BioWare tropes), decent enough design.

It's just unfortunate that there were just one too many things that broke the camel's back. Had it been a linear game, I don't think people would remember it so poorly, but the adequate but MMO-esque combat, non-cinematic dialog, sorta lame/mobile-esque war table missions, and increasing pile fetchquests wore on people to the point where I think it colored the whole experience despite the quality of any of its parts.

The game clearly has other major flaws like poor environmental storytelling, but "fetch quests" and "MMO" is just about all I hear, so I'm fairly skeptical about most of the criticism I see. Obviously, I'm biased but I don't see how people can view Witcher 3's combat as good to fantastic while simultaneously thinking Inquisition's is absolutely terrible (despite liking previous entries). Personally, I find both to be just decent, and I just have to assume that for many others, the overall experience is overriding the individual aspects, but maybe I'm projecting.

If we ever get to the point where people are considering doing Dragon Age runs like they do with the Mass Effect trilogy, I think people will be more kind to the "definitive version" of the game (all DLC, and do a few sidequests as possible).

 

[Ploid 3.0]

GAFers have double standards.

• Witcher 3 picking herbs? Fine.
• DA:I picking herbs? Bad MMO grindfest
• Witcher 3 mandatory escort narcoleptic dwarf? Fine
• DA:I optional escort cow? Bad MMO escort quest

I don't even think I crossed a escort cow mission and I have hundreds of hours of SP gameplay. I believe it though, in MP there's a objective where you are in a Final Fantasy Crystal Bearers like situation where you have to get a magic torch from one location to another, and if you go outside it's protection you are choked by gas losing HP slowly. There was a escort sheep or something in Witcher 3 as well.

 

[grumble]

What? "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts" is one of the most well designed quests in a BioWare game ever and quite well-written too. Just about every other main quest had an interesting narrative arc, visually stunning setpieces, wonderful production value, and decently made encounters. The gameplay is what it is, but Inquisition's main quest absolutely nails its epic battles and certainly isn't a slouch when it comes to neat premises and intimate moments.

Playing it right now... the main quests aside from that one were fairly weak. The DLC the descent was pretty good. Overall the quests mostly felt like chores and the pacing was poor. Playing it after the witcher 3 was shocking. The witcher has its own issues with pacing and blandness but dragon age is worse. The game was also too obviously designed to cater to a player god complex, with paper thin reasons for everyone to be impressed by you.

 

[JeffZero]

BioWare didn't exactly make it easy for people to like it, but I think the internet echo-chamber of hardcore gamers came down on it far too swiftly and far too harshly. There's a good game there with great characters, a decent story (that does play it far too safe with the BioWare tropes), decent enough design.

It's just unfortunate that there were just one too many things that broke the camel's back. Had it been a linear game, I don't think people would remember it so poorly, but the adequate but MMO-esque combat, non-cinematic dialog, sorta lame/mobile-esque war table missions, and increasing pile fetchquests wore on people to the point where I think it colored the whole experience despite the quality of any of its parts.

The game clearly has other major flaws like poor environmental storytelling, but "fetch quests" and "MMO" is just about all I hear, so I'm fairly skeptical about most of the criticism I see. Obviously, I'm biased but I don't see how people can view Witcher 3's combat as good to fantastic while simultaneously thinking Inquisition's is absolutely terrible (despite liking previous entries). Personally, I find both to be just decent, and I just have to assume that for many others, the overall experience is overriding the individual aspects, but maybe I'm projecting.

If we ever get to the point where people are considering doing Dragon Age runs like they do with the Mass Effect trilogy, I think people will be more kind to the "definitive version" of the game (all DLC, and do a few sidequests as possible).

This was a stellar overview of the game's legacy and the road that brought it there. Heh, you actually reminded me of my own personal least favorite element: the abundance of non-cinematic dialogue. BioWare's staff seemed pretty thrilled about it, but since the moment they were first spoken of in pre-release phase. I got the impression there simply wasn't a desire to transform as many conversations into more full-fledged presentations as we've seen in previous titles. As a big fan of high-caliber presentation, I'm bummed about it, and I'm bracing myself for a similar instance in Andromeda.

 

[A-V-B]

GAFers have double standards.

• Witcher 3 picking herbs? Fine.
• DA:I picking herbs? Bad MMO grindfest

For the record, I don't like Witcher 3 herb picking that much either.

 

[family_guy]

1) Afaik you had to do a certain amount of sidestuff to gain power to progress the main story
2) People aren't complaining about sidestuff existing, but about sidestuff being 99% shitty mmo kill 20 enemies, collect 10 shards type of missions with no narrative payoff

This will be like Xenoblade Chronicles X.

 

[McHuj]

I've actually never played inquisition, for a moment I thought they were talking about DA2: revenge of shit mountain...

 

[RoboticWater]

Playing it right now... the main quests aside from that one were fairly weak. The DLC the descent was pretty good. Overall the quests mostly felt like chores and the pacing was poor. Playing it after the witcher 3 was shocking. The witcher has its own issues with pacing and blandness but dragon age is worse. The game was also too obviously designed to cater to a player god complex, with paper thin reasons for everyone to be impressed by you.

Really? That's unfortunate because I really think the quests are good fun when you get into them. I can understand if you don't like the combat, but I thought the battle scenes were quite visually impressive, and some of the quest premises, like time travel or fighting a pride demon, were at least neat if not inspired. I don't blame anyone for not liking it-like I said, BioWare did not make it easy for us-but I think it gets more hate than it deserves. Criticism I understand, but I see a bit too much frothing at the mouth whenever Inquisition is mentioned.

The god complex thing is unfortunate too. I think BioWare tried way too hard to overcompensate for II's smaller scale. There were actually a few character moments where you or others doubted your power and divinity that I thought were getting dangerously close to really pulling off the struggles of being a supposed divine herald. Had they emphasized the difficulty of running a faith/power based institution and had more faith related concerns within your cabinet, I think it would have landed much better. The epilogue Trespasser DLC actually gets into corruption/power dynamics, and like I've said before, Inquisition would have been a far better game had that DLC been integrated from the start.

 

[JeffZero]

Really? That's unfortunate because I really think the quests are good fun when you get into them. I can understand if you don't like the combat, but I thought the battle scenes were quite visually impressive, and some of the quest premises, like time travel or fighting a pride demon, were at least neat if not inspired. I don't blame anyone for not liking it-like I said, BioWare did not make it easy for us-but I think it gets more hate than it deserves. Criticism I understand, but I see a bit too much frothing at the mouth whenever Inquisition is mentioned.

The god complex thing is unfortunate too. I think BioWare tried way too hard to overcompensate for II's smaller scale. There were actually a few character moments where you or others doubted your power and divinity that I thought were getting dangerously close to really pulling off the struggles of being a supposed divine herald. Had they emphasized the difficulty of running a faith/power based institution and had more faith related concerns within your cabinet, I think it would have landed much better. The epilogue Trespasser DLC actually gets into corruption/power dynamics, and like I've said before, Inquisition would have been a far better game had that DLC been integrated from the start.

Trespasser integrated into the main game from the start would have been terrific.

 

[DangerMouse]

LOL

 

[KorrZ]

Lol. Spot on. Basically the worst thing I could hear about this game.

 

[Dalibor68]

GAFers have double standards.

• Witcher 3 picking herbs? Fine.
• DA:I picking herbs? Bad MMO grindfest
• Witcher 3 mandatory escort narcoleptic dwarf? Fine
• DA:I optional escort cow? Bad MMO escort quest

It's not a double standard. Witcher 3 has literally dozens of quality sidequests whereas DA:I has close to none, so of course it will stick out much more when you have multiple herb-picking-quests (with no narrative payoff). And that said I don't remember a single W3 quest of "Pick 20 of these herbs!".

 

[Cranster]

ME 3 was the second best Bioware game since KOTOR, with DA:O being the best.

 

[spekkeh]

Funny how people keep asking for ME 1 "exploration" but don't want big map at the same time.

What people liked about ME1 exploration: nice skyboxes. What they didn't like: the actual gameplay. You don't need open world for that.

Large area playgrounds only work if it revolves around different kind of playstyles (see the love for wicked hearts wicked eyes), but in general RPGs really don't benefit from large open areas, not in fun at least, because they can't use the open area for anything meaningful in gameplay (of course they can, see BotW... but they won't, because Bioware is not in the habit of making sandboxes). It's just spacing out story bits with filler to increase arbitrary game length. It's forcing achievement style grind on people who just want to discover and interact with NPCs. There's some benefit to having a sprawling singular open world for immersion, but disconnected large areas don't work for this, as Skyward Sword and DA:I both proved very definitively.

 

[Ashodin]

People calling DAI boring

You guys are done with Open World games. They bore you now.

If it's more like DAI, BRING IT ON. I blew the fuck out of that game, have over 300 hours on it.

 

[spekkeh]

Open worlds were a mistake. Either they're boring and lifeless, or they filled with tedious busywork, taking forever to get to points of interest. Ya'll already knew from the survey leak last year this was gonna be Mass Effect Inquisition with all the talk about Fog of war towers, Far Cry style outposts, Strike Teams...

"As you explore planets throughout the Helius Cluster, you will encounter Khet Outposts. These outposts are optional combat experiences where you enter the outpost and fight off waves of enemies. Destroy Khet outposts to earn XP, rewards and thwart their growing power in the region. Your allies will reward you with praise and increased narrative options as you fight to remove the Khet presence from the region."

"Optional Elite Remnant Vault Raids are scattered around the Helius Cluster located in special orbital facilities that are unlocked by Star Keys. Similar to the standard Remnant Vaults, you enter them to retrieve a special artifact which will trigger the vault defenses that arm traps, activate defense robots and change the architecture of the vault itself to stop you from escaping. However, Elite vaults ratchet up the difficulty of the encounter with increasingly powerful defense robots and traps, as well as roaming outlaws and deadly Khet patrols that are also in search of the elite artifacts. Elite Remnant vaults will test the limits of your combat and puzzle solving acumen, but with greater difficulty comes greater rewards. Gain rare loot, narrative acclaim and huge rewards for completing these daunting challenges."

looooooot of busy work and checklists to fill out a lot of space. Gotta get that 100+ hour of gameplay back of the box bullet point.

While I thought DA:I was okay and actually the best dragon age (but that's more on account of how mediocre I find the series), it was hardly an actual game, it was a template. People thought it was boring because you could read the overarching template and noticed that you were just doing the mindless busywork needed to complete it. Like their development teams undoubtedly did when they got handed the template. Now I see templates within templates. Y u no make an actual game, Bioware?

 

[Dalibor68]

People calling DAI boring

You guys are done with Open World games. They bore you now.

Or they don't and "we" will just play good open world games like W3 or FO:NV instead.

 

[Necron]

Can't wait to collect pointless collectibles on a map and fill up "progression bars"!

 

[masterkajo]

Oh boy... the one thing I didn't want it to be is DA:I in space. I sincerely hope that it is not the case. At least make all that optional stuff and that exploration meaningfull and not just collecting stuff to fill up a bar or increase a number.

"oh this is dragon inquisition" comment after walking out of the bioware office, due to top level philosophical level approach with open world gameplay elements, more places to explore, more optional content, squad loyalty missions which are optional and dont affect ending, entire planets optional but looks like fewer planets than ME1 but are large like dragon age size levels and provide a large level of variety

Ah, I see. At least they are outright saying that things don't effect the ending. I just don't know if I like what I hear about this game. Wait and see approach it is.

 

[jesu]

Can't wait to collect pointless collectibles on a map and fill up "progression bars"!

He explained why he thought it was like DA:I, pointless collectibles on a map and fill up "progression bars"! wasn't part of that explanation.