Theanine3D
Member
Nope, Mario is an established character who doesn't die and reincarnate as a different being every game. Link does do the latter. Can't compare the two.
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Miyamoto: In mainline Zeldas, Link will always be the hero, will consider S spin-offs
- Thread starter axisofweevils
- Start date
Nope, Mario is an established character who doesn't die and reincarnate as a different being every game. Link does do the latter. Can't compare the two.
AcademicSaucer
Member
I'm sorry but that's how it is, Hylia and her chosen hero reincarnated again and again and demise following them.
neoism
Member
oh well i didnt know i thought she was nintendos creation lol.. sheik game would be cool.
uncelestial
Member
I agree with you that having another character like Linkle or Zelda be a choice for the player seems fine. Thumbs up. I disagree that there's any reason to have the actual character Link just "be a girl." That's not a thing that happens. Not even Batgirl and Supergirl and Ms. Pac Man are literally the same character. And for someone to stamp their feet about it is so weird, when it wouldn't work in any other piece of media. "Remake The Godfather with a female Don Corleone or else it's A PIECE OF SHIT!" Is it, though?
I like the idea of player choice, I think Linkle and Zelda or a new character are fine compromises, but I've never heard of this idea that an established character "should" have all their attributes be re-gendered (which is an entirely problematic and weird endeavor on its own) and just have a "cover version" in another gender. That's sorta what Linkle is, really, but it also isn't -- and I think it's a lot better that's she is more fleshed out as a standalone character. It's cool that she's got a distinct personality, backstory, and look. http://zeldawiki.org/Linkle
Kinda too bad what a stupid name she has, but I think the approach of crafting a game where you can choose to play as her or Link is great and solves all of this a lot more sensibly than regendering Link. I wouldn't try to erase or deny the gender of a real person, why do people want to do that to a fictional one?
WiiRevolution1
Member
Exactly! The excuses at this point are making people look like fools.
-But he's always been a boy! IT MUST NEVER CHANGE!!
-He always reincarnates the same! Except for age...and height...and now clothes...
-Why does everyone want this? I don't care either way, but...
-Zelda spinoff would be better.
-Shiek spinoff would be better.
-Just go play Hyrule Warriors! Gosh!
-Will you people stop whining. Imma gonna whine about you whining even tho I could just not enter these threads. WAAA!
-This is all because of the Emily Rogers rumor. lol at believing rumors. (Even tho people have wanted this for years!)
-Just move on already!
-What about my black Link! (Even tho most would be in favor of a full character creator! Me included!)
-What about gay wheelchair christian Link (These are just full on sexist trolls.)
-What about boy Samus or girl Mario even tho the lore in Zelda is totally different since Link is reincarnated and is supposed to be a avatar. (These too.)
-And now: The creator said no. So stop. Just because you complain doesn't mean you'll change their minds. Its not like complaining for years about wanting a open world, Zelda 1 like, and no handholding Zelda will get you one. (Oh wait!)
These discussions have gone in circles so many times. Its fascinating just to watch what appears like copy and pasted answers nowadays. No reason to even post in these threads anymore (I don't plan to.) since my post will immediately be replied by someone arguing one of the above points.
I just want a girl Link, in a full on Zelda game (preferable all with character creator) Zelda is my favorite franchise so having a girl Link would just be perfect. I'll always hope no matter what. I don't want to play as anyone other than girl Link. I won't be quitiing the franchise or anything, but having girl Link would make it perfect in my eyes and many others.
Mango The Magician
Banned
That's litterally all it is though. Otherwise, we'd have learned more about it before the series turned 25.
You kinda glossed over my post. I wasn't saying they were identical, even though they're hardly that different, just that pointing out that Link's been "a goron, a Zora, a deku, a rabbit," and so on is disingenuous, as those aren't incarnations of Link that were born that way rather incarnations of regular old male hylian Link who transformed into those things via magic.
Is it really necessary to start boiling down the entire other sides stance as if they're in the wrong for having such stance? Are we here to debate or mock?
Are you describing yourself in the bolded?
Please make more awful aggressive posts. Regardless of my potentially harsh decorum, at least I'm not making it a goal of personally and directly insulting anyone here and implying stupidity. I respect anyone here regardless of which of various sides we fall on (there are more than two sides here). You should refrain from these discussions if you can't control from making direct personal attacks aimed at specific people.
Sheik is quite feminine and a woman in Hyrule Warriors to my eyes, so your assumption that it would be a woman in disguise as a man in a new game is a big assumption of how the character may be designed. Nintendo can make it clearer it's a woman for fans with minor changes. Secondly, that was one suggestion. Earlier I said I would love new games starring Zelda in no disguise, Impa, Tetra as a pirate woman, and Irene the witch from ALBW. Your assumption that I only want a woman in man-like disguise starring in a Zelda game is just that... an incorrect assumption.
I'm familiar with the Oracle games..again, can you refrain from insulting me as some sort of amateur or false fan or whatever. That's very immature. Someone earlier made a couple of blunders on Zelda lore and I only calmly mentioned it as one of his arguments was based on that mistake... I didn't call him a shitty Zelda fan or anything. Grow up.
Anyway, you said Link = combat focused and Zelda = puzzle focused. I don't think that's an idea that will sit well with a lot of people watching this discussion and wonder why the unevenness in roles, regardless if Zelda still gets action segments. I never implied it will be a Layton game. And still, the games already show Zelda excels at combat and Link excels at puzzles just the same. In fact, Link is arguably much better at tactical puzzle solving. Zelda excels as a strategist who directs people and formulates overarching plans.
Mario makes no sense to enter this because
1- It is the same Mario
2- We had 2 Mario mainline games where you could play as a girl
Link we had 11 diferent links and you could only play as a girl in the BS Zelda, Hyrule Warriors and Wand of Gamelon. All SPIN OFFS, 2/3 are unplayable
The girl is OBVIOUSLY the one with the skirt and the boy is the one with shorts, as the Last Guardian director told me
1- It is the same Mario
2- We had 2 Mario mainline games where you could play as a girl
Link we had 11 diferent links and you could only play as a girl in the BS Zelda, Hyrule Warriors and Wand of Gamelon. All SPIN OFFS, 2/3 are unplayable
What makes WW Link there more obviously male than Tetra? Imagine someone who has no idea who those characters are.
The girl is OBVIOUSLY the one with the skirt and the boy is the one with shorts, as the Last Guardian director told me
I don't think I understand your comment.
I am not saying link is trans gender. Link is a video game character and the depth of the characters emotions, gender identity, taste in food, cars and music, and GAF memes is completely irrelevant.
I am just saying that the gender of Link is really unimportant and doesn't play a crucial role in the story. Link could be genderless and still defeat Ganon just fine. To force the issue that link be male or female feels strange in a way.
I can only see classifying Link's gender as a way for players to relate to the character and turn the hero into something they identify with. (=
lwilliams3
Member
I believe that Nintendo is flatly saying that Link's incarnations (aka the spirit of the hero chosen by the goddess) will always be male as far as they are concerned. Likewise, the incarnation of the goddess Hylia will always be female. They are not going with the avatar-like incarnation system.
Being honest, know I like you Platy, did me that huge favor before
But Tetra looks like the girl to me. There are a bunch of little cues in her design. The finer eyebrows, the bigger shaded eyelids, "seductive" slant of the eyes, smaller tapered arms, the tiny feet and footwear, the way she stands. I played WW on day one of release and wasn't spoiled to her real identity and really had no idea it was Zelda. Always thought she was a girl from the moment she appeared although I don't recall if the dialogue was an immediate giveaway. I'm playing through OOT 3DS before I play my copy of WW HD.
There's no reason why Mario cannot be a different Mario in a new game. The Mushroom Kingdom and the area around Peach's castle look vastly different in the different games, far more static changes than can happen within 10 years of Mario's lifetime, either implying it's a different Mario or the series is not realistic. In either case, there's no argument for having Mario not become female.
ShironRedshift
Member
It wasn't just a rumor. It really took off when Aonuma was really coy about whether or not the figure in the first BotW trailer was Link or not. That caused people to start speculating as to whether that character was actually a woman or not, especially with how androgynous the figure was. Of course, Aonuma soon clarified that he was just messing around and joking when he said that, and the figure was indeed Link, but the period in between the comments got a lot of people talking and wondering if Link being a woman would be something they would enjoy or not, and thus inadvertently Aonuma's own comments were what really stoked the flames for this. And plenty of people decided that that would indeed be something they would enjoy, wouldn't effect the series at all since Link isn't one individual character but a series of different characters when they're gender rarely plays a significant role to their characters anyway, and felt it would be a great progressive move to let a woman star in a LoZ game and hopefully attract more women to the series and help them to feel more represented, and everything just took off from there.
People just continue to be invested since it's still something that they would really like to see and every time someone like Aonuma is asked about it he can't seem to avoid putting his foot in his mouth and avoid giving some silly justification or reasoning for it that doesn't make sense instead of just saying "Link's a man and that's all there is to it." That combination of forces--there being high demand for it since it would be something cool to see and there's no particular reason it can't happen/would actually hurt the series or be out of place in any way, along with Aonuma et al., coming up with stupid explanations like "It would just be easier to have Zelda as the main character... except it raises the question of what would Link do (???), so it wouldn't be easier, but what was the question" and "Link can't be a woman because that would upset the balance of the Triforce", leading to the feeling among some that Nintendo isn't taking the questions seriously at all or otherwise themselves has no serious objections to the idea--is why it keeps getting brought up.
It's definitely not limited to the Zelda series. The topic of Link becoming Zelda in particular comes up again and again because of the combination of Zelda being a very popular series, it being a series where it would be a particularly easy change compared to some others (like, in God of War's case, all of the games star the same Kratos, so he can't really be changed into a woman, where as in TLoZ's case, most of the games feature completely different Links that more or less function as either avatars for the player or completely different characters from one another anyway, so it's much easier to argue that one of those Links just happened to be a girl, especially since Link's not particularly masculine anyway), and Aonuma and company giving all kinds of silly explanations ever since his initial little tease, which just keep stoking the fires over and over and over again.
But this type of controversy definitely and questioning definitely comes up for other games as well. The most recent example off the top of my head is when DICE said that despite Battlefield 1 letting you play as a women during certain parts of the single-player campaign, it doesn't allow you to play as a woman character in multiplayer at all, presumably out of some sense of trying to maintain "historical accuracy" in the multiplayer despite the gameplay definitely not being historically accurate in a huge number of ways anyway, particularly in mutiplayer battles, and them allowing you to play as a woman during the campaign.
There's also the infamous case of Ubisoft being called out when they said that Assassin's Creed: Unity doesn't have an option of playing as a woman assassin because that would be "too hard" to do and require "too many new animations," leading to them being completely called out on that and a huge controversy over that decision and whether it was really the real reason as to whether or not the game didn't have women assassins or not.
On a related note, there have also been discussions about women being featured on the boxart for other series as well, such as:
"Naughty Dog was asked to push Ellie to the back cover on box art, refused"
"Eurogamer: Fable 3 was going to have a black woman on the cover, Microsoft blocked"
So this is definitely not something only directed Nintendo's way or only just at the Legend of Zelda.
For sure. It's pretty much just mostly people saying the same thing and expressing the same sentiments, while others say they would prefer if Link just always remained a male character. Nothing particularly wrong with either view. Practically no one is saying that Nintendo is wrong if they don't make Link a woman (sure, some might have somewhere in all of the threads on the subject, but they're in a vast, vast minority) but rather just expressing that they think it would be a really cool thing if they did do that and that they would appreciate it. There's plenty of annoyance when someone at Nintendo comes up with another bullshit "reasoning" as to why Link is a man, but pretty much everyone in these threads respect that it's Nintendo's choice--they just get annoyed when Nintendo comes up with bullshit to try justifying that choice, because that's unnecessary and just comes off as tone deaf as weird, but they do respect the actual choice itself and are just making their own personal feelings and preferences known.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Tiny feet are common. Hardly a female trait in the game.Being honest, know I like you Platy, did me that huge favor before
But Tetra looks like the girl to me. There are a bunch of little cues in her design. The finer eyebrows, the bigger shaded eyelids, "seductive" slant of the eyes, smaller tapered arms, the tiny feet and footwear, the way she stands. I played WW on day one of release and wasn't spoiled to her real identity and really had no idea it was Zelda. Always thought she was a girl from the moment she appeared although I don't recall if the dialogue was an immediate giveaway. I'm playing through OOT 3DS before I play my copy of WW HD.
Thin Eyebrows and tiny feet! Must be a girl.
And Link and Tetra's eyes are pretty identical.
Mango The Magician
Banned
There are two Marios. Seriously, why do I gotta keep bringing this up?
Also, not canon, but interesting to think about,
...and given the story of Galaxy, that last one could be canon.
Nobody is SUDDENLY obsessed ... this is a REALLY OLD fan request
I give you hands and eyebrows ... but she does not even have the cat eye makeup or big eyelids that EVERY girl has.
Her feet is basically the same size as link's and her eye is basicaly in the same shape as link's.
I don't wanna go full huelen sonic eyes here but if you want I can open photoshop tomorrow for a direct comparison.
Also, you don't recall an immediate giveaway ?
Talk about IMMEDIATE giveaway
This happens 3 seconds after you see a tiny pixel of Tetra in the talon of the big bird
We are not saying that if Miyamoto wants he could make a Girl Mario ... we are talking about in universe reasons and representability. The last Mario game allows you to finish 99% of the game without ever playing a male character.
Being honest, know I like you Platy, did me that huge favor before
But Tetra looks like the girl to me. There are a bunch of little cues in her design. The finer eyebrows, the bigger shaded eyelids, "seductive" slant of the eyes, smaller tapered arms, the tiny feet and footwear, the way she stands. I played WW on day one of release and wasn't spoiled to her real identity and really had no idea it was Zelda. Always thought she was a girl from the moment she appeared although I don't recall if the dialogue was an immediate giveaway. I'm playing through OOT 3DS before I play my copy of WW HD.
I give you hands and eyebrows ... but she does not even have the cat eye makeup or big eyelids that EVERY girl has.
Her feet is basically the same size as link's and her eye is basicaly in the same shape as link's.
I don't wanna go full huelen sonic eyes here but if you want I can open photoshop tomorrow for a direct comparison.
Also, you don't recall an immediate giveaway ?
Talk about IMMEDIATE giveaway
This happens 3 seconds after you see a tiny pixel of Tetra in the talon of the big bird
We are not saying that if Miyamoto wants he could make a Girl Mario ... we are talking about in universe reasons and representability. The last Mario game allows you to finish 99% of the game without ever playing a male character.
Yes, but that's not a female Mario. Why have a female Link but no female Mario? It could even fit into the Mario storyline as well as a female Link does in the Zelda storyline. There's no reason why it would not work in either game.
Mango The Magician
Banned
Two years old, is hardly that old. Nobody wanted this prior to E3 2014, in fact the gametrailers thread made in may of 2014 where they had a wishlist of things they wanted in Zelda U, and it included "full customization of Link" was all but universally panned and ridiculed on this site, and many others.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
It wouldn't fit into the Mario storyline as well. In mario you'd have to create a whole new universe with a female mario. In Zelda, the universe is already setup so that the next Link would just have to be born a girl. Here's the way I see it. Nintendo created a universe in which over thousands and thousands of years great dangers face the world. When this happens a Link appears and saves the day as The Hero. The assorted Links have often been referred to as Chosen by the Gods. Or Chosen by Destiny. And it's always a Link that comes and saves the day. Now if Link has a set gender, that's saying that Nintendo created a world in which only a boy can be the Hero. When real danger faces the world, it's always gotta be a boy that saves the day. If a Link isn't the hero, its' just a side story, and if there was real danger, it'd have been a Link.
I think creating a whole world where over thousands of years, it's set in universe that only boys can be the Hero is pretty crappy of Nintendo.
Playable Zelda would be AWESOME, but since the beginning it was pretty clear mainline zeldas are a story about the owner of the Triforce of Courage. We have Zeldas without Ganon, we have Zeldas without Zelda. We does not have a Zelda without the owner of the Triforce of Courage.
Playable Peach makes Mario fits the "would be awesome to have a girl playable once in a while" so no need to change Mario for that. AND It is pretty clear it is the same Mario from all times so it has less lore reasons. But would be fun if in the universe reboot from Galaxy series they suddenly have like a girl Luigi or a girl Mario xD
11/08/2012 2:30pm - Father Hacks Zelda For His Daughter, Makes Link A Girl
There are fanhacks of link as a girl and playable zelda since fanhacks EXISTED. Just because you never heard of does not mean it did not existed
2003 Hack for NES Zelda
ClayKavalier
Banned
I sent a PM to a mod suggesting that a poll be made for this thread, but I think it'd be interesting to see how many people think:
I feel like a lot of strong opinions are being attributed to people just because they do or don't think female Link would be a good idea. Especially the last point seems to be causing a lot of the argument.
Personally I don't see why a female Link should be a big deal, but I wouldn't mind Linkle or Zelda/ Sheik being the main character in a Zelda game. I'm also not exactly clamoring for a female PC and the gender of the main character would never be the deciding factor for whether I play a Zelda game, though I do think it could be a cool change of pace.
I'm guessing most people feel roughly the same. I could be wrong, but it seems like a lot of people are being called lunatics or whiners or whatever for suggesting the main character be female because hardcore, conservative fans assume they literally want the character Link to be made female. Again, I personally don't see what the big issue is, but I and I think most people would be fine with a character like Linkle who is technically a new character if Nintendo did decide to go with a female lead in a future game.
It seems like most of the people saying Link should always be male wouldn't have a problem with this either. Seems like a lot of debate over what is basically a misunderstanding if most of us agree that that scenario would be fine.
- It's offensive that Link is male
- The game should be boycotted if Link is not made female
- The people working on the game are misogynists
- People who want Link to remain male are sexist
- If a change is made, it is important that Link be made female, not that another (female) character take his place as lead
I feel like a lot of strong opinions are being attributed to people just because they do or don't think female Link would be a good idea. Especially the last point seems to be causing a lot of the argument.
Personally I don't see why a female Link should be a big deal, but I wouldn't mind Linkle or Zelda/ Sheik being the main character in a Zelda game. I'm also not exactly clamoring for a female PC and the gender of the main character would never be the deciding factor for whether I play a Zelda game, though I do think it could be a cool change of pace.
I'm guessing most people feel roughly the same. I could be wrong, but it seems like a lot of people are being called lunatics or whiners or whatever for suggesting the main character be female because hardcore, conservative fans assume they literally want the character Link to be made female. Again, I personally don't see what the big issue is, but I and I think most people would be fine with a character like Linkle who is technically a new character if Nintendo did decide to go with a female lead in a future game.
It seems like most of the people saying Link should always be male wouldn't have a problem with this either. Seems like a lot of debate over what is basically a misunderstanding if most of us agree that that scenario would be fine.
Mango The Magician
Banned
It's their series, they can create what they want. Plus going off other characters it's pretty clear that reincarnation in Zelda is the same character reappearing again and again, that doesn't mean however that "chosen hero" can't be a girl, just that Link can't. In fact I think given how the world reacts when Link isn't there, like when it borrowed the dual protags for the BS games or when the Knights of Hyrule kicked ass, is a really cool element, and it'd be a great setup for a playable Zelda or a unique nonLink hero to appear.
I really want a game where Aryll ventures the outskirts of the great sea and rescues Link. Hopefully they make a spinoff like this.
I played WW in 2003! 13 years ago! Understandable I don't recall that text at all! Still, she resembled a girl to me, albeit a tomboyish one.
Her footwear is unlike that of the boys and looks like a woman's sandal with the band of leather above the ankle (see literally any Tetra cosplay for an idea of what the footwear art precisely conveys). The eyebrows are different from all/most of the guys in that pic. She and Link definitely do not have the same eye shape. Link's are rounded and symmetrical, Tetra's are almond shaped and slanted down at the inner corners giving a more feminine look.
Her footwear is unlike that of the boys and looks like a woman's sandal with the band of leather above the ankle (see literally any Tetra cosplay for an idea of what the footwear art precisely conveys). The eyebrows are different from all/most of the guys in that pic. She and Link definitely do not have the same eye shape. Link's are rounded and symmetrical, Tetra's are almond shaped and slanted down at the inner corners giving a more feminine look.
Pretty much every videogame main character ever supposed to represent the player.
Sometimes they are exclusively males. Sometimes they are exclusively females. Sometimes you get to chose. In ALL case they are the player avatar in the game world.
Link is no less to an avatar to the female players than Samus to the male players. They both serve the same function.
First, Mario storyline...
Second, people need to stop using "reincarnation". It's just a lore gimmick more than anything. If we go by the classic definition of reincarnation definition next Link could be an ant. OMG Zelda games were all characters are ants!!
Third, Mario "universe" has magical power-up turning Mario into a flower, a statue, a bee, a giant, superman, invincible, an helicopter, and, do I need to go on? There is no excuse to have a female Mario, but you people don't ask for it because no one expect to change iconic characters.
This!
Things can be changed, even in the existing universe the Mushroom Kingdom changes dramatically and you have different Marios. No reason why not a female Mario can all of a sudden appear, fits as well into the storyline as a female Link (in other words: it makes no difference）. I cannot see the opposition towards a female Mario.
How is it clear? Does Mario not age? How can Baby Mario, Paper Mario, and Super Mario all meet at the same time? I honestly don't see any story-based reasons for why he cannot be female, apart from "he's always been male" or "you can play as Peach".
A Link to the Past
Banned
You replied to a post I made and implied that I was throwing logic and fact out of the window (based not on what I said, but what you read out of it). You do not get to jump into a discussion and escalate tension and try to antagonize things and then get defensive when people call you out on it. Don't become upset that people match your tone. People don't get treated with respect when they speak in the disrespectful way that you speak - and not just to me, but to several people in this thread.
People aren't going to care to speak to you if you jump into a discussion swinging fists wildly, especially when you don't even understand what the discussion is about.
Find me any interview where they say that Samus is the avatar to the player, please
They ALWAYS refer to samus as her own character, while like is lots of times refered to an avatar. The reason he is named LINK is because he is an avatar.
There are in universe reasons how Baby Mario and Mario can coexist in the rpgs and why Paper Mario and Mario can coexist in another rpg.
They never coexisted in the main games, always on spin offs.
Why are you so focused on Mario ?
Night Angel
Member
These two things are not mutually exclusive. Link can be both an avatar and a character, and it's pretty obvious the developers see him as such.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
yes, I know they can create what they want, but what they create and choose to create also reflects on them. And I can have an opinion on that. *shrug*
Zelda is vastly different each game. Seriously Would you honestly say Spirit Tracks Zelda and OoT Zelda are the same person?? Honestly? Vastly different. The Links have been different as well. But it's harder to tell because they keep them silent.
Link is always the Hero. That is honestly the only defining characteristic. That's what a Link is. The chosen one. They might often wear green tunics, but that's hardly the only thing they wear. They've had different hair colors, too.
... you need an interview to understand the character you control (in first person sometimes, even!) is the player eyes and hands into the game world? Especially one that doesn't even talk like Samus? (Or sometimes doesn't)
I mean, I'm not an expert to Metroid, but when I played Prime I really felt like I was Samus and she was my eyes through the world.
Also, why you aren't asking for character creator if you want him to be 100% your avatar into the game world?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Because no one claimed that Link had to be 100% malleable in order to be an avatar character.
Also, the term avatar in this context is different from the other term, which refers generally to "character who you control." What we're talking about is a character who is explicitly meant to represent the player, more so than the default avatar is.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
I'm honestly trying to figure out your point. So you equate creating a whole new universe where a female mario exists the same as a girl Link being born in a universe where A)many Links have been born already... B)Both girls and boys are regularly born.
How the creators treat the character is different here.
I do NOT want a character creator because I want a different story. I want the fact that link is a girl now to interfere with the story!
The society is dressing boys in green expecting for a boy hero but you are denied the green tunic at first because you are a girl ! You have to show courage to go against what society expects from the legend while a random Groose in green takes all your credit or something till he finally see his failure and gives you the green tunic. Near the end of the game you have a flashback from a previous life where a boy link is defeated and Ganon does some magic to change the curse of reincarnation.
I am making this up as we go but would be an amazing way to give the breath of fresh air the series is searching WHILE reusing the same gameplay tropes
SneakersSO
Member
Link isn't really an avatar character. Going by what the current franchise director & series creator feel, Link is simply a silent protagonist, equivalent to both Ness or Gordon Freeman. He doesn't talk, but he has a place & design among the world they are creating & story they want to tell. To them, his gender is male, and he is the only main character to be featured in a mainline Zelda.
As the caretakers & creators of this series, I respect their creative decision here. They clearly want to have a non-male lead in a spin-off Zelda game at some point, and they are beginning to explore that possibility. I look forward to that game whenever they decide to unveil it. In the meantime, i'm glad they are setting expectations for how to view & interpret their works. I know that this isn't what some people want to hear, but this is Nintendo & Co's call to make, not anyone elses.
SneakersSO
Member
Zelda is not a series that explores deep, meaningful conventions within its story; you're asking the series to become something it isn't, nor something the creators wish it to be. You're asking to put way more modern day politics & social commentary into a game series Nintendo has never used for such purpose.
The series has always been driven by its choice in gameplay style that its adopted in its different eras & its various art styles. I agree, Zelda is a series that needs a breath of fresh air, and luckily BotW is answering that in a myriad of ways without touching the foundation that both Zelda has always been & that Nintendo wishes for it to be.
Given that Nintendo wants to make films and theme park attractions they're probably going to define their more ambiguous characters from their largest franchises.
The dream is dead for a female Link. A Shiek spinoff could be great, like how Mario's a DK spinoff and the Wario games are a Mario spinoff.
The dream is dead for a female Link. A Shiek spinoff could be great, like how Mario's a DK spinoff and the Wario games are a Mario spinoff.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'm not debating whether he is an avatar or not, I am responding to the misconception that avatar = blank slate. Argue that Link is not an avatar, but I'll correct people who leap from "avatar" to "blank slate"
Mango The Magician
Banned
So a sob story about oppression and sexism, yeah that sounds fun./s
Totally not wanting to push an agenda here.
blond and one instance of brunette doesn't really count as "different hair colors."
So every game with a history of a male protagonist should allow a female playable character or be classified as oppressive and sexist?
Mango The Magician
Banned
That's the opposite of what I was saying. Link faces danger and shows courage by fighting monsters not by standing up to societal norms that do not and should not be present in the fantasy world of Hyrule.
Lest we try to cannibalize anothers creation to use it as our soapbox.
A Link to the Past
Banned
If hair color is constant, there can't be a single variance.
Also, it should be noted that his hair is closer to brown than blonde in the SNES game, and is definitely brown in the first and second games.
It's not the opposite of what you're saying, it just isn't what you're saying :v
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Yet those social norms ARE present. Why did Link in WW get that tunic?
I am TOTALLY pushing an agenda, never hided that...and so are the CREATORS OF THE SERIES.
Triforce Heroes did the sexism with only calling male heroes, Wind Waker played in a really interesting way with Ganon being plot savy and kidnapping EVERY girl so one might be Zelda. Ocarina told a story about how the absence of a hero can destroy the world and Majoras touched pretty hard subjects like the fear of the inevitability of death and love. Skyward Sword has a dungeon based on a POEM ! In both Ocarina and Wind Waker zelda is instantly captured the moment she became a princess!
Do you guys really does not think that the only race of humans with dark skin is a race of thieves whose king is the main villain is not politics or agenda ?
Hell even only doing a male heroes after 11 different characters is some kind of agenda and political stance !
Mango The Magician
Banned
Look more reddish gold to me. I agree with AoL, but TLoZ is a bit ambiguous.
as we've got this
and this
Lol, good catch.
He got the tunic as it was a tradition to honor OOT Link who was a male. No where was it stated that a girl couldn't wear the tunic or that she'd face ridicule or sexism if she did.
Most of that reads as extrapolations of your own no offense. Also, they've already said that they don't want to add politics to their games, I just can't find the article.
I understand and am all for more girls in games. That said its kinda hard to take someone elses work and say hey put a girl here instead when the writer has already made up his mind a long time ago that its a boy and will always be a boy. It may seem stuborn or stupid but I can kinda understand where hes coming from. The Zelda series has never really been about customization.. which is a shame but yeah they have stuck with their set character and refused to move from that. .
Honestly Id rather they just do some sort of spin off or even a new IP like Zelda. Why not a story of a female protagonist in the Zelda universe? I am suprised Sheik hasnt got her own game yet..
Honestly Id rather they just do some sort of spin off or even a new IP like Zelda. Why not a story of a female protagonist in the Zelda universe? I am suprised Sheik hasnt got her own game yet..