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[Mango The Magician]

Considering how WW Link could easily be called a girl and you wouldn't have to change the look, and considering how easily people were able to believe BotW Link was a woman, it wouldn't take any effort at all to keep the aesthetic the same and have Link be a woman.

:l

Come on now. I agree that they fudged up BotW, but have we really gotten to this point? Are we gonna call every little boy in any game ever, "easily a girl?" Does every boy character need to carry around a baseball bat and a backwards cap?

 

[Mega]

^EXACTLY. For fucks sake, people. Kill this shitty line of arguing.

You see plenty of women dressing up as Link and no one is batting an eye. Plenty of people believed BotW's Link could be a girl. Not sure what about the aesthetic would change with any significance. Even Aonuma was quoted saying they design Link to intentionally look androgynous... only to follow it up with "Oh but he's definitely a boy. No two ways about it, he's a boy. But 'y'know, we make him look androgynous so anyone can relate... BUT HE'S DEFINITELY A BOY."

Again--

I also need to add that people saying Link being female isn't a stretch because he's already androgynous and Nintendo may as well "commit" or "go all the way", because this supposedly makes him practically a girl and girls cosplay as him, is an atrocious and insulting argument to males with feminine or androgynous features. Link isn't a step away from being a woman just because he is a slim guy with soft features. Now that's what I consider conservative and narrow minded. This aspect of the discussion needs to die.

Feminine features =/= well turn him into a woman.

So should've Nintendo made Link hypermasculine and buff to make it clear Link is undeniably male? He can't have soft features and still be undeniably a guy? You people are making ridiculous assertions.

 

[tareqsalah1]

The thing we have to understand is that nintendo will never take this kind of risk (game staring zelda or female link or waluigior peach....) unless they have another sustem that sells like the wii. When they sell that many consoles then they can take risks because if these games fail it wont hurt as much because the mario kart and smash and mario game would offset the lose by selling millions.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Again--

I also need to add that people saying Link being female isn't a stretch because he's already androgynous and Nintendo may as well "commit" or "go all the way", because this supposedly makes him practically a girl and girls cosplay as him, is an atrocious and insulting argument to males with feminine or androgynous features. Link isn't a step away from being a woman just because he is a slim guy with soft features. Now that's what I consider conservative and narrow minded. This aspect of the discussion needs to die.

Feminine features =/= well turn him into a woman.

So should've Nintendo made Link hypermasculine and buff to make it clear Link is undeniably male? He can't have soft features and still be undeniably a guy? You people are making ridiculous assertions.

Not to mention, he's shirtless in BotW and he sounds like a male. a guy can be effeminate or "gender neutral" without ceasing to be a man.

Heck, Cloud in the FFVII looks pretty darn "gender neutral" to me in the remake, I don't doubt he's a dude though.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Considering how WW Link could easily be called a girl and you wouldn't have to change the look, and considering how easily people were able to believe BotW Link was a woman, it wouldn't take any effort at all to keep the aesthetic the same and have Link be a woman.

I never once thought WW Link looked remotely anything other than a little boy.

I'm not sure where this claim is coming from.

 

[Cipherr]

Have the disastrous sales decline and mass alienation of fans that you and others who arbitrarily defend the status quo predict come to pass?

Considering I have never predicted such a thing I have NFI why you are asking that. But as for a disastrous sales decline; Yeah, Nintendo has had that of late lol. Not due to anything discussed here though.

Wouldn't matter if it did though.

 

[Galactic Fork]

I posted this earlier:

I also need to add that people saying Link being female isn't a stretch because he's already androgynous and Nintendo may as well "commit" or "go all the way", because this supposedly makes him practically a girl and girls cosplay as him, is an atrocious and insulting argument to males with feminine or androgynous features. Link isn't a step away from being a woman just because he is a slim guy with soft features. Now that's what I consider conservative and narrow minded. This aspect of the discussion needs to die.

This statement is always about art and style. As I've said before. Link is many characters, not one character. They are born over thousands of years. There is no one Link. And that is countered with the art. Link always "looks" the same. Same features. Suggesting that a girl could never look like Link. So I could actually climb onto your own high horse and say "because saying this supposedly makes a girl Link impossible is an atrocious and insulting argument to women with masculine or androgynous features. Now that's what I consider conservative and narrow minded. This aspect of the discussion needs to die.

 

[Shaanyboi]

^EXACTLY. For fucks sake, people. Kill this shitty line of arguing.



Again--

I also need to add that people saying Link being female isn't a stretch because he's already androgynous and Nintendo may as well "commit" or "go all the way", because this supposedly makes him practically a girl and girls cosplay as him, is an atrocious and insulting argument to males with feminine or androgynous features. Link isn't a step away from being a woman just because he is a slim guy with soft features. Now that's what I consider conservative and narrow minded. This aspect of the discussion needs to die.

Feminine features =/= well turn him into a woman.

So should've Nintendo made Link hypermasculine and buff to make it clear Link is undeniably male? He can't have soft features and still be undeniably a guy? You people are making ridiculous assertions.

That "shitty line of arguing" is Nintendo's own explanation for Link's design. It isn't "We wanted to make a slender male character", it's "we wanted a character players could assume to be either."

“Back during the Ocarina of Time days, I wanted Link to be gender neutral. I wanted the player to think ‘Maybe Link is a boy or a girl.’ If you saw Link as a guy, he’d have more of a feminine touch. Or vice versa, if you related to Link as a girl, it was with more of a masculine aspect. I really wanted the designer to encompass more of a gender-neutral figure. So I’ve always thought that for either female or male players, I wanted them to be able to relate to Link.”

“During the development of Twilight Princess, I went a different route and created a version of Link that was more masculine. But after Twilight Princess I went back to the drawing board and decided Link should be a more gender-neutral character. Hence I created the version of Link that you see in Breath of the Wild. As far as gender goes, Link is definitely a male, but I wanted to create a character where anybody would be able to relate to the character.”

 

[Cheerilee]

I never once thought WW Link looked remotely anything other than a little boy.

I'm not sure where this claim is coming from.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/...playing-daughter-dad-gives-link-a-sex-change/

 

[Galactic Fork]

:l

Come on now. I agree that they fudged up BotW, but have we really gotten to this point? Are we gonna call every little boy in any game ever, "easily a girl?" Does every boy character need to carry around a baseball bat and a backwards cap?

Not at all, but that's kinda the point, young boys and girls are easily mistaken for the other, it's because there isn't a whole lot of difference before puberty sets in. Which is why the art or the mere image of what Link is supposed to be is not a good argument for all Links being male. It's just a picture, and pictures can be ambiguous.

 

[uncelestial]

We know that ... which is why we are asking for a FEMALE REINCARNATION OF LINK, THE OWNER OF THE TRIFORCE not Zelda as the protagonist

Am I the only one who finds that a seriously weird idea? "Convert this male character to a female character NOW!"

Uh why? How does that even work? Has it even been done? Is it necessary? Ghostbusters, Mad Max, and Star Wars all had no trouble coming up with female protagonists to lead classic franchises. Why the hell do people think Link, specifically, has to have a "female incarnation?" It's not necessary to do this to have a playable female character in a Zelda game. I don't get it.

 

[Mega]

This statement is always about art and style. As I've said before. Link is many characters, not one character. They are born over thousands of years. There is no one Link. And that is countered with the art. Link always "looks" the same. Same features. Suggesting that a girl could never look like Link. So I could actually climb onto your own high horse and say "because saying this supposedly makes a girl Link impossible is an atrocious and insulting argument to women with masculine or androgynous features.

Nice try. I have never once argued that Link's supposed maleness or art style is what continues to define his ongoing maleness. I have been adamant from the start that the creators' and developer's intentions have been clear on this and dictate that Link is in fact many facets of the same male template.

The post you quoted was in reaction to multiple shitty posts basically stating Link looks "girly" so make him a girl, a terrible bottom barrel argument if I've ever seen one.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Not at all, but that's kinda the point, young boys and girls are easily mistaken for the other, it's because there isn't a whole lot of difference before puberty sets in. Which is why the art or the mere image of what Link is supposed to be is a good argument for all Links being male. It's just a picture, and pictures can be ambiguous.

Wait "is" or "isn't"? Likewise I agree that boys and girls look alike as children, which makes the whole point of bringing WW Link up kinda pointless. There are differences in Link and the girls around his age in WW though, but they're not immediately noticeable due mostly to the simplistic art style and that he's like 10 in that picture.

...Thus why bring it up? If you're argument is that Link can easily be mistaken for a girl, then bringing up a picture like that isn't really fair as it ignores those points.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Link is clearly male in WW. There is really nothing to be argued there. He is the Hero of Winds and meets his male equivalent predecessor, the Hero of Time. WTF goes on in these threads where people throw logic and facts out the window?

What an embarrassing post. The discussion was of his design, not his role in the game. You could have bothered to get clarity on the discussion, but I guess pretending to be superior to other people in the discussion and attacking other posters is better than having an ounce of sense/

This is demeaning and pandering to the stereotype that girls and games starring girls need to be puzzle-based. Hard pass on your terrible idea. Sheik kicking ass is a much more powerful idea.

Ah, I forgot that the best way to portray women is only when they are disguised as a man. The way you act as if Zelda's game would be some Professor Layton type game really tells me how amateur a Zelda fan you are. Oracle of Ages had heaps of combat, heaps of adventure. It just so happened to have a bigger heap of puzzle elements. Zelda is, without doubt, a much smarter character than Link. As such, gameplay WOULD be based around her strengths, without replacing traditional Zelda elements like exploration (courage) and combat (power) away.

I have no idea why you're so aggressive about video games, but maybe you shouldn't bother participating in this discussion if your best contribution is misunderstanding other people's posts and becoming upset about video games.

 

[KevinCow]

Why is everyone suddenly so obsessed with Zelda having a female protagonist?

Like, I know there was that rumor that BotW would let you choose to play as a female Link. But it was a rumor. It's bizarre to me that people got so invested in that rumor that they are now upset that it turned out to be false.

And why is it specifically Zelda that people are getting so upset about? There were many, many games shown at E3 that starred male characters that could have instead starred female characters. What about Gears of War 4? They introduced a new cast of characters. It would've been a perfect opportunity to make the main character a female. You even have a female companion, if I'm remembering correctly. They could have easily made her the main character instead of the guy they chose, and they didn't.

But nobody's getting upset at Gears of War 4 for not starring a female character. Just Zelda.

To be clear, I wouldn't mind a Zelda game with a female Link or one starring Zelda herself. In fact, I've thought for a while that playing as Zelda could be cool, as it would mean they'd have to come up with new gameplay mechanics to take advantage of her magic abilities instead of relying on the same old sword/bow/bombs/etc. that Link's been using since the first game.

But there's also absolutely nothing wrong with Nintendo continuing to make Link the star, and continuing to make Link a male. The people who are saying that Nintendo is wrong and bad for doing so are absolutely nuts.

 

[Cryxok]

The argument about Link "technically" being able to be re-born as a girl seems like a huge logical leap to me. Link's design is consistent (not counting art styles, of course).

He is always a Hylian blonde guy, with similar physical characteristics. Never we've seen a Link different from this mold. No black-haired Link, no Gerudo Link, no Goron Link.

The logical conclusion to me is that, within the Zelda lore, "reincarnation" is not "Link's spirit inhabits a random body" but rather "the same hero is reborn once again". Also, the "reincarnation" thing in Zelda is often considered as nothing but an excuse to see familiar characters in new settings.

I, for one, see Link as it's own character and I do feel a "female link" would feel odd and as if something was lost instead of gained. Zelda is pretty popular with female gamers and actually portrays really strong female characters, like Impa or Tetra, despite the "Hero saves Princess" trope, so I really see no need for change. I'd much rather a new IP with a female lead than gender-swapping Link just because.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Why is everyone suddenly so obsessed with Zelda having a female protagonist?

Like, I know there was that rumor that BotW would let you choose to play as a female Link. But it was a rumor. It's bizarre to me that people got so invested in that rumor that they are now upset that it turned out to be false.

And why is it specifically Zelda that people are getting so upset about? There were many, many games shown at E3 that starred male characters that could have instead starred female characters. What about Gears of War 4? They introduced a new cast of characters. It would've been a perfect opportunity to make the main character a female. You even have a female companion, if I'm remembering correctly. They could have easily made her the main character instead of the guy they chose, and they didn't.

But nobody's getting upset at Gears of War 4 for not starring a female character. Just Zelda.

To be clear, I wouldn't mind a Zelda game with a female Link or one starring Zelda herself. In fact, I've thought for a while that playing as Zelda could be cool, as it would mean they'd have to come up with new gameplay mechanics to take advantage of her magic abilities instead of relying on the same old sword/bow/bombs/etc. that Link's been using since the first game.

But there's also absolutely nothing wrong with Nintendo continuing to make Link the star, and continuing to make Link a male. The people who are saying that Nintendo is wrong and bad for doing so are absolutely nuts.

So what you're saying is that Zelda fans should be annoyed that GoW4 doesn't have female characters (does it not have any? I have no idea).

People have been clamoring for the opportunity to play as a woman in Zelda for many years. This is not a new thing, so it'd be even stranger if the discussion just stopped happening.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Am I the only one who finds that a seriously weird idea? "Convert this male character to a female character NOW!"

Uh why? How does that even work? Has it even been done? Is it necessary? Ghostbusters, Max Mad, and Star Wars all had no trouble coming up with female protagonists to lead classic franchises. Why the hell do people think Link, specifically, has to have a "female incarnation?" It's not necessary to do this to have a playable female character in a Zelda game. I don't get it.

Because Link was designed to represent the player. He's kept silent to avoid misrepresenting the player's feelings. He's also a new person in almost every incarnation minus a small handful of direct sequels. If it's a person reincarnated time and time again, then why couldn't one of those incarnations be a girl? Or let the player atleast choose. Whether it's a female Link, or someone like Linkle, or Zelda, or some other female character, allowing an option in a game that already has so many of its creative choices designed around being up to the player's interpretation, this seems like a pretty simple one to include.

 

[A Link to the Past]

The argument about Link "technically" being able to be re-born as a girl seems like a huge logical leap to me. Link's design is consistent (not counting art styles, of course).

He is always a Hylian blonde guy, with similar physical characteristics. Never we've seen a Link different from this mold. No black-haired Link, no Gerudo Link, no Goron Link.

The logical conclusion to me is that, within the Zelda lore, "reincarnation" is not "Link's spirit inhabits a random body" but rather "the same hero is reborn once again". Also, the "reincarnation" thing in Zelda is often considered as nothing but an excuse to see familiar characters in new settings.

I, for one, see Link as it's own character and I do feel a "female link" would feel odd and as if something was lost instead of gained. Zelda is pretty popular with female gamers and actually portrays really strong female characters, like Impa or Tetra, despite the "Hero saves Princess" trope, so I really see no need for change. I'd much rather a new IP with a female lead than gender-swapping Link just because.

Uh

 

[Mega]

That "shitty line of arguing" is Nintendo's own explanation for Link's design. It isn't "We wanted to make a slender male character", it's "we wanted a character players could assume to be either."

That's an enormous misinterpretation of Nintendo's words and my own. I didn't say slender... I said androgynous, feminine AND slender guys with soft features aren't a step from being girls and people ITT should stop saying so as it is incredibly insulting to men who aren't very masculine looking.

As for Nintendo's words, they wanted people to relate to Link, not literally assume Link has now transformed into a woman. It's stated repeatedly in what you quoted. But go ahead and ignore all that.

As far as gender goes, Link is definitely a male, but I wanted to create a character where anybody would be able to relate to the character.”

 

[Galactic Fork]

Nice try. I have never once argued that Link's supposed maleness or art style is what continues to define his ongoing maleness. I have been adamant from the start that the creators' and developer's intentions have been clear on this and dictate that Link is in fact many facets of the same male template.

The post you quoted was in reaction to multiple shitty posts basically stating Link looks "girly" so make him a girl, a terrible bottom barrel argument if I've ever seen one.

But the post of mine you responded to with your little quote was my response to someone saying:

"Yes, but Link aesthetically has always been the same. The only difference has been his age."

Wait "is" or "isn't"? Likewise I agree that boys and girls look alike as children, which makes the whole point of bringing WW Link up kinda pointless. There are differences in Link and the girls around his age in WW though, but they're not immediately noticeable due mostly to the simplistic art style and that he's like 10 in that picture.

...Thus why bring it up? If you're argument is that Link can easily be mistaken for a girl, then bringing up a picture like that isn't really fair as it ignores those points.

See above. (and it was "isn't" sorry. i had fixed it eventually in my previous post.)

 

[Cryxok]

Because Link was designed to represent the player. He's kept silent to avoid misrepresenting the player's feelings. He's also a new person in almost every incarnation minus a small handful of direct sequels. If it's a person reincarnated time and time again, then why couldn't one of those incarnations be a girl? Or let the player atleast choose. Whether it's a female Link, or someone like Linkle, or Zelda, or some other female character, allowing an option in a game that already has so many of its creative choices designed around being up to the player's interpretation, this seems like a pretty simple one to include.

Link is silent, yes, but he is far from a blank slate, specially in later games. In Skyward Sword, in particular, Link displays more emotions than your average protagonist. You see him angry, sad, shocked, relieved, disappointed and even afraid at times. Saying Link has no character just because he doesn't "talk" is a factual lie

 

[ClayKavalier]

Considering I have never predicted such a thing I have NFI why you are asking that. But as for a disastrous sales decline; Yeah, Nintendo has had that of late lol. Not due to anything discussed here though.

Wouldn't matter if it did though.

I never predicted that other series would switch to female characters. Whoops.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Link is silent, yes, but he is far from a blank slate, specially in later games. In Skyward Sword, in particular, Link displays more emotions than your average protagonist. You see him angry, sad, shocked, relieved, disappointed and even afraid at times. Saying Link has no character just because he doesn't "talk" is a factual lie

Blank slate isn't relevant though. Avatar characters can have a personality.

 

[what-ok]

RIP

Nerds arguing about the gender of Link.

Bottom line is that Link is a hero. Gender has nothing to do with it. Even if Link was said to be male, maybe one should ask the hero if they identify as male before making the assumption that they do.

 

[James Scott]

You can be an avatar character that the player is supposed to identify as and also be an actual character.
That's what Link is.
His design is made so most people can identify as him even if he is a him. Seeing how popular he is (top sold amiibo, usually ranks pretty high in any popularity poll) I'd say that the design choice worked pretty well.

 

[Mango The Magician]

But the post of mine you responded to with your little quote was my response to someone saying:

"Yes, but Link aesthetically has always been the same. The only difference has been his age."


See above. (and it was "isn't" sorry. i had fixed it eventually in my previous post.)

Kinda assuming going off who you were replying to...but I think there's more to the aesthetic than just looks. Link's always been male, it's pretty clear that's what the aesthetic calls for.

 

[Cheerilee]

The argument about Link "technically" being able to be re-born as a girl seems like a huge logical leap to me. Link's design is consistent (not counting art styles, of course).

He is always a Hylian blonde guy, with similar physical characteristics. Never we've seen a Link different from this mold. No black-haired Link, no Gerudo Link, no Goron Link.

The logical conclusion to me is that, within the Zelda lore, "reincarnation" is not "Link's spirit inhabits a random body" but rather "the same hero is reborn once again". Also, the "reincarnation" thing in Zelda is often considered as nothing but an excuse to see familiar characters in new settings.

I, for one, see Link as it's own character and I do feel a "female link" would feel odd and as if something was lost instead of gained. Zelda is pretty popular with female gamers and actually portrays really strong female characters, like Impa or Tetra, despite the "Hero saves Princess" trope, so I really see no need for change. I'd much rather a new IP with a female lead than gender-swapping Link just because.

 

[Shiggy]

What exactly do you try to prove with that image?

 

[Night Angel]

RIP

Nerds arguing about the gender of Link.

Bottom line is that Link is a hero. Gender has nothing to do with it. Even if Link was said to be male, maybe one should ask the hero if they identify as male before making the assumption that they do.

Wow... uh... yeah. I'm sure that the devs made him trans but just never mentioned it despite claiming he is a male.

 

[lupinko]

Has naughty dog patched in the option to play as nathania drake yet?

Or is it still the developers' choice how they present their protagonist?

Can't wait for Gordona Freewoman in Half Life 3.

 

[A Link to the Past]

What exactly do you try to prove with that image?

The poster made an explicit point to mention hair color.

Wow... uh... yeah. I'm sure that the devs made him trans but just never mentioned it despite claiming he is a male.

Why would it matter creator intent? It probably never came up for them. I don't see anything wrong with the idea that Link could be trans.

 

[Cheerilee]

What exactly do you try to prove with that image?

That his hair's dark brown, not blonde?

 

[MutFox]

Can't wait for Gordona Freewoman in Half Life 3.

GoldenEye Jane Bond remake.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Kinda assuming going off who you were replying to...but I think there's more to the aesthetic than just looks. Link's always been male, it's pretty clear that's what the aesthetic calls for.

No, Link hasn't always been male. All the past Links have been male. There is no one "Link," that is the whole issue and why LoZ is special. A future Link could be born a girl.

 

[Shiggy]

The poster made an explicit point to mention hair color.

And what's the argument by posting a tech demo image of a Link with blond hair?

That his hair's dark brown, not blonde?

I had very light blond hair as a child, now my hair color is closer to dark blond. You can actually see these different hair color tones in the various art styles. The hair always ranged between very light blond to dark blond/brownish. Unlike a gender transformation, that actually can happen naturally.

 

[A Link to the Past]

And what's the argument by posting a tech demo image of a Link with blond hair?

...

Th

That isn't blonde hair, that's really dark brown hair

 

[James Scott]

And what's the argument by posting a tech demo image of a Link with blond hair?

He's brunette in a few games.

 

[Theanine3D]

The argument about Link "technically" being able to be re-born as a girl seems like a huge logical leap to me. Link's design is consistent (not counting art styles, of course).

He is always a Hylian blonde guy, with similar physical characteristics. Never we've seen a Link different from this mold. No black-haired Link, no Gerudo Link, no Goron Link.

The logical conclusion to me is that, within the Zelda lore, "reincarnation" is not "Link's spirit inhabits a random body" but rather "the same hero is reborn once again". Also, the "reincarnation" thing in Zelda is often considered as nothing but an excuse to see familiar characters in new settings.

I, for one, see Link as it's own character and I do feel a "female link" would feel odd and as if something was lost instead of gained. Zelda is pretty popular with female gamers and actually portrays really strong female characters, like Impa or Tetra, despite the "Hero saves Princess" trope, so I really see no need for change. I'd much rather a new IP with a female lead than gender-swapping Link just because.

Not sure if this is a joke post? So much of what you said is flat out false. Link wasn't even blonde until Ocarina of Time came along. He was a varyingly brown-haired guy for the first several games in the series. He's also been a Goron, Deku, Zora, rabbit, and other various forms throughout the series.

 

[Cheerilee]

And what's the argument by posting a tech demo image of a Link with blond hair?

That Link can have other hair colors. He doesn't always wear green. He's not always left handed.

People keep going through this ironclad list of "if he's not _____ then he's not Link" but all we seem to be left with is "if he's not a boy then he's not Link."

 

[KevinCow]

So what you're saying is that Zelda fans should be annoyed that GoW4 doesn't have female characters (does it not have any? I have no idea).

People have been clamoring for the opportunity to play as a woman in Zelda for many years. This is not a new thing, so it'd be even stranger if the discussion just stopped happening.

I'm saying that it's an absolutely insane thing to get upset about.

"I want to play as a female character in the next Zelda game." - A perfectly reasonable statement.

"I can't believe they're not letting me play as a female in BotW! Sexist pigs!" - An insane and completely unreasonable response to Nintendo doing nothing wrong.

 

[Mango The Magician]

No, Link hasn't always been male. All the past Links have been male. There is no one "Link," that is the whole issue and why LoZ is special. A future Link could be born a girl.

This is really silly. You're arguing semantics now. We determine what the aesthetic is by analyzing what each Link shares, none of them have been female, they've all been male and looked nearly identical, therefore, that's what the aesthetic calls for.

Also...which Link is Miyamoto referring to if there's no "one Link"?

Staying within the realm of brunette to blond is still hardly a departure. I'd compare it to Mario's mustache being both black and brown.

Not sure if this is a joke post? So much of what you said is flat out false. Link wasn't even blonde until Ocarina of Time came along. He was a varyingly brown-haired guy for the first several games in the series. He's also been a Goron, Deku, Zora, rabbit, and other various forms throughout the series.

He was brunette in AoL, that's it, TLoZ was in between blond and brunette. He's also never been any of those, he's transformed into those. Please do not confuse the two, unless you seriously think Mario can be a girl because he's been a tanooki, and cat, and rabbit, and boo.

That Link can have other hair colors. He doesn't always wear green. He's not always left handed.

People keep going through this ironclad list of "if he's not _____ then he's not Link" but all we seem to be left with is "if he's not a boy then he's not Link."

Except he's always white, and blue eyed, and hylian, and, I know it'll be in BotW anyways, has a green tunic and pointy hat.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Link is silent, yes, but he is far from a blank slate, specially in later games. In Skyward Sword, in particular, Link displays more emotions than your average protagonist. You see him angry, sad, shocked, relieved, disappointed and even afraid at times. Saying Link has no character just because he doesn't "talk" is a factual lie

You're describing reactions, surface level emotions, but that's about it. Link isn't presented with complicated thoughts or beliefs or anything of the sort. We don't get any real insight into expectations, or biases, or core values. "He's nice, and brave, and sleeps in." That's about the extent of Link's character, and it always has been. It's no different than super old Mickey Mouse cartoons where you could describe him as "mischievous" or something, but that's maybe about it.

As Aonuma describes it:

If Link said something the user doesn't agree with, that relationship between the user and Link would be lost. That's why I chose not to go with that.

Hell, Geralt of Rivia is literally unable to express emotion, but even he's allowed to express more complicated thoughts in the Witcher games.

 

[James Scott]

You're describing reactions, surface level emotions, but that's about it. Link isn't presented with complicated thoughts or beliefs or anything of the sort. We don't get any real insight into expectations, or biases, or core values. "He's nice, and brave, and sleeps in." That's about the extent of Link's character, and it always has been. It's no different than super old Mickey Mouse cartoons where you could describe him as "mischievous" or something, but that's maybe about it.
As Aonuma describes it:
Hell, Geralt of Rivia is literally unable to express emotion, but even he's allowed to express more complicated thoughts in the Witcher games.

He's simple, and being easy to relate to doesn't make one not a character. Just like you said, Mickey Mouse and Mario are pretty simple, but also probably the most recognizable and loved characters in the world (or at least they're up there)
Also, not sure if quoting the guy that says Link can't be a girl in your argument of why Link should be a girl is the best course of action.

 

[Shaanyboi]

That's an enormous misinterpretation of Nintendo's words and my own. I didn't say slender... I said androgynous, feminine AND slender guys with soft features aren't a step from being girls and people ITT should stop saying so as it is incredibly insulting to men who aren't very masculine looking.

As for Nintendo's words, they wanted people to relate to Link, not literally assume Link has now transformed into a woman. It's stated repeatedly in what you quoted. But go ahead and ignore all that.

As far as gender goes, Link is definitely a male, but I wanted to create a character where anybody would be able to relate to the character.”

Except Aonuma's own words say he designs Link in mind so anyone could relate to him, not "androgynous-looking males exclusively". These are literally his own words, the same dude whose statements people are trying to use to shut down discussion about adding an option.

 

[neoism]

good as it should be....


let them make a zelda game with this character as the lead if you want a female lead in a zelda game

lol its like everyone forgot her existence .. Kappa

 

[Galactic Fork]

This is really silly. You're arguing semantics now. We determine what the aesthetic is by analyzing what each Link shares, none of them have been female, they've all been male and looked nearly identical, therefore, that's what the aesthetic calls for.

All it would take was one Link that was born female to change that. Kinda a flimsy foundation to build that on. And as I said, a female Link could look aesthetically the same as the male ones.

Also...which Link is Miyamoto referring to if there's no "one Link"?

Dunno. Unless you're suggesting WW Link is the same person as Ocarina of Time Link. Wierd since they lived hundreds of years apart. Or Twilight princess Link who was actually tought by Ocarina of Time Link. he was taught by himself?? Weird. See how this works?

 

[Mango The Magician]

good as it should be....


let them make a zelda game with this character as the lead if you want a female lead in a zelda game

lol its like everyone forgot her existence .. Kappa

So long as she's not Link or an incarnation of him than sure. That sounds awesome.

All it would take was one Link that was born female to change that. Kinda a flimsy foundation to build that on. And as I said, a female Link could look aesthetically the same as the male ones.

Sure...just like all it'd take is for Samus to be engulfed in "Gender magic" to become Sam. I'm not arguing whether or not they can or can't be these genders, but clearly speaking from what we have, it's clear what Link is suppose to be.

Dunno. Unless you're suggesting WW Link is the same person as Ocarina of Time Link. Wierd since they lived hundreds of years apart. Or Twilight princess Link who was actually tought by Ocarina of Time Link. he was taught by himself?? Weird. See how this works?

He's referring to Link collectively, how is that hard to grasp. Seriously you people hold this "he's different people" idea on such a high pedestal yet it clearly means abesolutely nothing to Nintendo. Both Aonuma and Miyamotos comments prove this. When they say "Link" or "Zelda" they don't mean anyone specific incarnation, they mean all of them as a collective singular character.

 

[Dryk]

I'm kinda curious how many of ya consider this to be important to Nintendo. I mean, I've never seen anyone pay more attention to the idea of there being multiple Links than in this debate.

I don't even think Aonuma or Miyamoto have ever talked about it.

That's because from their perspective it's just an excuse to not bother thinking too hard about continuity. But the lore is there now and not using it seem like such a waste of potential to me.

 

[James Scott]

good as it should be....


let them make a zelda game with this character as the lead if you want a female lead in a zelda game

lol its like everyone forgot her existence .. Kappa

She's basically a Koei Tecmo OC character like Lana and Cia. Miyamoto said they're up to making a Sheik game, which is probably better than using a character that's not fully theirs.