James Scott
Banned
Miyamoto keeps name dropping that Sheik game, seems very likely to happen.
I'd like to see it.
I'd like to see it.
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Miyamoto: In mainline Zeldas, Link will always be the hero, will consider S spin-offs
- Thread starter axisofweevils
- Start date
Don't know if the two of you are in agreement or not but you summed up my feelings since I would absolutely hate to have Zelda or any other non female Link as the main playable character in a mainline game.
Sure, a female Link would be interesting, but if they'd rather keep his "reincarnation" male and start another female series, that's great too. No reason to be upset.
Edit: A gender choice doesn't strike me as a great idea for Zelda for some reason. I'd rather have a set gender per character.
Edit: A gender choice doesn't strike me as a great idea for Zelda for some reason. I'd rather have a set gender per character.
Yeah! I'm fine with that.
Also, it seems Retro Studios NX game is not Cranky Kong or Metroid Prime 4, but Sheik Adventures!
Can't wait to see Zelda using magic and Ninja-like acrobatics and kicking ass Ganondorf's minions...
It'd be cool if this game is placed in the seven years Link is sleeping and until Zelda gets kidnapped. A cool intro with Impa helping Zelda to scape from Ganondorf, an intro/tutorial of Impa training the secret arts of the Shekiah, and the game starts one year before Link's awakening (no pun intended lol, well, maybe...), fighting with some unknown Ganondorf's lieutenants. Maybe looking for the Sages to prepare them in their temples... In the second part of the game, Link is ready to kick ass and Sheik will do some stealth missions to help Link without him knowing it... The game will end when she discovers herself to Link and, of course, Ganondorf finds her.
Ok, I'll stop dreaming lol...
Also, it seems Retro Studios NX game is not Cranky Kong or Metroid Prime 4, but Sheik Adventures!
Can't wait to see Zelda using magic and Ninja-like acrobatics and kicking ass Ganondorf's minions...It'd be cool if this game is placed in the seven years Link is sleeping and until Zelda gets kidnapped. A cool intro with Impa helping Zelda to scape from Ganondorf, an intro/tutorial of Impa training the secret arts of the Shekiah, and the game starts one year before Link's awakening (no pun intended lol, well, maybe...), fighting with some unknown Ganondorf's lieutenants. Maybe looking for the Sages to prepare them in their temples... In the second part of the game, Link is ready to kick ass and Sheik will do some stealth missions to help Link without him knowing it... The game will end when she discovers herself to Link and, of course, Ganondorf finds her.
Ok, I'll stop dreaming lol...
Eolz
Member
Why do you keep implying it would be a puzzle game?
Not even talking about an action game (like Miyamoto hinted and what Hyrule Warriors was), but there has been Final Fantasy spinoffs that still were RPGs for example.
spyroflame0487
Member
You know...i'd honestly like to see a Crisis on Infinite Hyrules where we get to play as many different kinds of Links.
Young Links, Old Links, Female, different species, personalities, etc. Could be really interesting with the series based around time and how it doesn't usually flow in one direction.
Young Links, Old Links, Female, different species, personalities, etc. Could be really interesting with the series based around time and how it doesn't usually flow in one direction.
Given that Aonuma always gives wacky answers while Miyamoto has given two very straightforward answers in a row, I'm pretty sure Miyamoto ruled that Link should stay as a guy and be the main protagonist of Zelda games, and Aonuma was just trying to present a reasoning beyond "Well Miyamoto said no."
He's also heavily implying here that he's the one that went and asked the Zelda team to think about a Sheik game, presumably because he wants to give something to all the people demanding a female lead in Zelda, even though he doesn't want to change Link's role in the series.
For the mainline games, the only possibility I would even see on the table is if they implement multiplayer like Aonuma was implying and didn't have you play as 3 to 4 copies of Link, but I'm assuming you'd only have that choice when playing with more than one player to assert that Link is the primary character.
Sure it will probably be a good game, but it just doesn't carry the same weight. And one wildly successful spin-off that's over 30 years old doesn't really inspire confidence for the future.
Wario ware and Luigi's Mansion are great series but they're not exactly the same thing nor lighting up the charts.
UnemployedVillain
Member
It's amazing how you guys have cherry picked Zelda for years because it's the ONLY Nintendo game where you could conceivably play as a female character and can't. I don't see you mention the fact that the recent Mario games allow you play as female characters now (or that some od the older ones did), or how Splatoon's marketing was focused in the Squid girl, or Xenoblade Chronicles X having Emma essentially be the main character, or FE now having a character creation, etc. It goes on, but keep clinging to Zelda as if it represents all Nintnedo games
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Newest entry literally changes most things about the series ala the open world design, won't budge on mute spandexed hero
Can't wait for Zelda's Puzzle Quest: The Legend of the Pink Party Pants
Can't wait for Zelda's Puzzle Quest: The Legend of the Pink Party Pants
SmackAttack
Member
All they ever needed to say. At this point, Link is the character and he is male, and honestly, I prefer it that way. A Sheik spin-off would be great though.
Thrashinuva
Banned
"Linkle was a mistake."
-Miyamoto
-Miyamoto
Proposal: Mario Kart and Metroid Prime.
I get what you're saying, but I feel Nintendo takes this a bit more seriously than a lot of publishers do.
That's not to say it's guaranteed to be a large effort title by any means (assuming it exists, which given that they keep talking about it, I'm assuming it will at some point), but I think the odds are better than your standard publisher.
MisterHero
Super Member
Link is ambidextrous, so is Miyamoto
Can't Masahiro Sakurai play all 4 controllers in Smash Bros.? Link's got nothing on that octopus-ism
Ascenion
Member
My problem with this is that you've assumed that's how the reincarnation of Zelda works when the evidence in the games says otherwise. Art style differences aside Link looks roughly the same everytime he reincarnates so the general idea of reincarnation doesn't work here. There has to be something special about it. Not to mention Link imo, is very clearly a character and not an avatar. Like you said with James Bond. That is who he is and you wouldn't change it. Link is still Link and always has been.
Milly Osworth
Member
Legend of Zelda: Federation Force inc
Spring-Loaded
Member
Naughty Dog actually knows how to answer questions about their creative choices, and Nathan Drake is a singular character, not a series of reincarnations. If someone asked ND about having a female character as a lead, they could say they've had a big release with a female lead, and they probably wouldn't shoot down the possibility of a female lead (with strange logic/reasoning) in future Uncharted games if they were handling them.
We're getting that except for the "I'm a girl," part. Would that preclude the unique games with existing female characters as leads?
But there's no guarantee it'll start a new franchise. Super Princess Peach was a good game and there hasn't been a Peach game since. and that wasn't on the same level as mainline Mario games in terms of quality, content, etc. People who want Zelda/girl Link/Sheik/Impa in a game are probably hoping for something more than a spinoff that diverges from the gameplay of the mainline series.
What's it matter?
James Scott
Banned
Sheik is ninja Zelda. She can also be normal Zelda as well, probably gives you more gameplay options
No, Link is an avatar to the player and AT LEAST 20% of the player base is made of women, so it is only fair that AT LEAST 20% of the playable Links are girl Links
Link is the main protagonist of an ACTION focused game because he has the triforce of COURAGE
Zelda has the triforce of WISDOM, therefore puzzle focused spinoff
This is a good explanation and I agree with it, though I fear that it's going to spark an argument over whether or not Miyamoto is sexist.
Maximus.
Member
I don't know where this outcry for an iconic characters gender to be changed came from, but there's clearly a vocal demand. I would think a game focused on Zelda and Sheik is much better and I think would be better than making Link a female. Why can't the princess be a badass hero that we get to control?
I think it would be disappointing if she actually looked like a guy, but modern Sheik is pretty clearly Zelda in a rather effeminate costume and often transforms back into her normal appearance.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Well they could also have make another action adventure series altogether with a female lead.
If I recall correctly, Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon is the 9th best selling game on 3DS.
Gender option games are nice, now how about the first party female lead Nintendo games? Beyond Metroid? It's beyond blatant the patriarchal overtones in Miyamoto's quote and what we have seen from Nintendo's old guard.
DontTouchMe
Member
Yeah, I'm sure that's what it is. /s
Cynn
Member
Gender swapped with no gain/impact. Let's cram a female into this role unaffected by gender in the first place to get the same result.
If gender has no bearing on what's happening in a story, who cares what it is? I'd prefer new stories with interesting characters. Sheik is a fascinating character. I'd much prefer to see her in a new game than Link being made female and in the same type of story again. Maybe it's because I'm a older player but I'd like to see the Zelda mythos expanded beyond "the chosen one" type stories. Gender swapping Link won't do that. Giving the spotlight to Sheik will.
In Hyrule Warriors you have 3 different Links in addition to other characters, included Zelda and Ganondorf.
SmackAttack
Member
I get that he's an "avatar" but I think it's fair to say at this point that the audience sees Link as the character and not just an avatar. Besides, how much of the female player base is asking for/demanding a female Link?
AcademicSaucer
Member
Miyamoto: Link will always be male
he is androgynous tho, so you can pretend Link is a woman
I think something like that would have been his honest answer.
Eolz
Member
It's just completely dishonest and even worse for this character to imply that she can only be in puzzle games, even more when it's coming from people that wanted her to be a protagonist.
Super Princess Peach didn't become a franchise because it wasn't a good game and didn't sell well.
Hyrule Warriors, a game with a mostly female roster, already got another entry on 3DS and will probably get a second game down the line.
If people buy games they are clamouring for, of course developers and publishers look at the demand.
But he wants Link to be a dude just like he wants Zelda to be a princess reincarnation instead of a prince reincarnation. Girls can have courage and guys can have wisdom obviously but I think he just imagined these characters as a certain sex, and as a creator of this franchise, that's his right.
Alex
Member
Link is about the only one where it'd make sense, to be fair.
Still, I think I'd rather have a Zelda spin off as well.
Dark Cloud
Member
Omg a Shiek spin off game would be boss! NX please!
Spring-Loaded
Member
People don't want that for it to have an impact on the story. If you want, I can dig up an old post of mine that discusses benefit of having the lead in a mainline game be a girl, particularly a girl incarnation of Link.
What would be bad about it existing?
There are AT LEAST 3 Zeldas which Link's sex afects the story. Wind Waker is the best one, but also Ocarina and Skyward Sword both have important parts that would need to some heavy changes if Link was a girl (AT LEAST make some characters lesbians xD). Link's Awakening is a game where it does not have an important part but it had minor part
There is no reason why a Girl Link would not have impact on the story. I mentioned lots of times but it makes much more sense to a sidequest in zelda games to be presented as "you don't look like someone who can beat Ganon's forces, so help us delivering this letter/gathering 50 bugs"
What is your gender identity?
Mine is female, and when we play as Link we rescue Zelda and the kingdom, playing as a female avatar (Link) I still would want to rescue Zelda. Making Zelda the MC defeats the goal point of the game, and that is saving Zelda (and the kingdom) too me.
That's what I would really like to see.
Oh don't get me wrong, I got nothing against Sheik at all - I quite like the character. I guess I'm just more attached to the idea of playing as regular Zelda. It might be because my first couple of Zelda games were Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. A game starring TP Zelda would be especially appealing to me.
But as you say, Sheik is quite clearly Zelda when one considers the modern interpretations, so it's not really an issue.
Spring-Loaded
Member
SPP was a good game though, for a spinoff.
And what about the implications of saying Zelda can't be the hero of a mainline Zelda game? Which is worse and/or has more significance: my (sardonic) implication, or the implication made by the creator of the series?
While Link isn't your most defined character ever, he isn't your generic hero either.
I never bought that Link would be an avatar of the player because he has his own traits. It's not like Mass Effect where I can create any kind of character I want.
For someone with the triforce of wisdom, those arrows she shoots should hurt pretty badly.
The spinoff could be a regular Zelda game with exploring, puzzles and combat. I don't think they would make a puzzle focused game.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I don't see any strong reason why Link -needs- to be the star of mainline games. A spin-off is nice (though I'm SUPER frustrated by this focus they're putting on featuring "male disguise" Sheik over letting us just play as Zelda), but people want to see Zelda in the lead role of a mainline title.
The "Zelda is wise, not courageous or powerful!" narrative is such trash. Literally never has that rule been applied to Link - he can be courageous, wise, AND strong as he solves puzzles, wields rather powerful weapons, and fight enemies much stronger than him. "Her role is the bearer of the Triforce of Wisdom therefore she must only be in a puzzle game" is essentially communicating the same message as "eww, girls!" based on how its evocation is entirely arbitrary.
The "Zelda is wise, not courageous or powerful!" narrative is such trash. Literally never has that rule been applied to Link - he can be courageous, wise, AND strong as he solves puzzles, wields rather powerful weapons, and fight enemies much stronger than him. "Her role is the bearer of the Triforce of Wisdom therefore she must only be in a puzzle game" is essentially communicating the same message as "eww, girls!" based on how its evocation is entirely arbitrary.
The only good reason is that because they want it that way.
Didn't they say something like that when it came to the questioning about TriForce Heroes not having a female character?
Maximus.
Member
Why can't Zelda save her own kingdom? Why does it have to be someone else coming in to save the princess/prince? Zelda is already a female character that could do the same thing, expect no master sword I guess.
The same argument can be made, and if people really want it should be made, for any franchise. Mario, Halo, Uncharted, etc.
I am all for gender equality, but I think it's a big decision in terms of story and creation and implementation to have all these main characters in a narrative be gender swappable.
Eolz
Member
There's no implication by Miyamoto there: Zelda can't be the main protagonist in a mainline game because this is about Link. Not because Zelda is an idiot incapable of doing anything else (especially when she's not shown like this throughout multiple games).
SPP was an average game, but I think I see where your problem is when you say "good for a spinoff". Sometimes spinoffs are even better than mainline games. Games are games.