He made an incrdible game that can last anywhere from 60-80 hours that got some of the highest review scores in recent memory. It's well worth $40, there's an argument to be made that it could have been $60. You're attitude that no indie studio should price their game more expensive is harmful to the industry really, the game cost 5 million dollars to make, looks visually beautiful and was a labour of love from one individual and his small team but you think he should charge $20 because "that's what indie games cost"? Honestly, here he is the victim of piracy, he shouldn't be blamed because people are basically stealing his game. Smh.
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The Witness is being heavily pirated. J. Blow says piracy could impact his future.
- Thread starter Raylan
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He made an incrdible game that can last anywhere from 60-80 hours that got some of the highest review scores in recent memory. It's well worth $40, there's an argument to be made that it could have been $60. You're attitude that no indie studio should price their game more expensive is harmful to the industry really, the game cost 5 million dollars to make, looks visually beautiful and was a labour of love from one individual and his small team but you think he should charge $20 because "that's what indie games cost"? Honestly, here he is the victim of piracy, he shouldn't be blamed because people are basically stealing his game. Smh.
Why is he greedy? Of course piracy can impact a developer's future... why wouldn't it?
Do you think that 100% of people who pirated the witness would not have bought the game if that option wasn't available?
YianGaruga
Banned
pretty much. I think this discussion is worth having in a few months at the earliest.
It does suck that its being pirated..
For me anyways the $40 price point is too high for a game Im on the fence whether Ill enjoy it enough to justify the cost- this is true whether its an indie title or from a major publisher. Will wait for either a demo or a sale/price drop before picking this up.
For me anyways the $40 price point is too high for a game Im on the fence whether Ill enjoy it enough to justify the cost- this is true whether its an indie title or from a major publisher. Will wait for either a demo or a sale/price drop before picking this up.
digitalrelic
Banned
If you can't afford the game for $40, the answer is simple: Don't buy it. Not being able to afford a game is not an excuse to steal it.
RowdyReverb
Member
Well put. There's really no excuse for this.
Already Torn
Banned
I feel like a lot of people think about piracy this way. It sure explains some of the crazier stuff companies like EA and Ubisoft do to prevent piracy, yeah?
It's always a bad idea though.
Monty Mole
Member
Why would The Witness be pirated any more than any other popular game? Why would Mr Blow have ever expected his game to be any different to any other game? He did not go in blind, piracy is not something new and affects all mediums.
So surely it should have no more impact on his future than anyone else working in the videogame/music/movie industry, independent or not. Unless it's all down to that price-point, in which case he only has himself to blame. But given that it's in the Steam Top 10 and the huge support from early adopters, he'll be just fine.
He's a genuine talent, but like all creative talents (eg Phil Fish), he whines too much
So surely it should have no more impact on his future than anyone else working in the videogame/music/movie industry, independent or not. Unless it's all down to that price-point, in which case he only has himself to blame. But given that it's in the Steam Top 10 and the huge support from early adopters, he'll be just fine.
He's a genuine talent, but like all creative talents (eg Phil Fish), he whines too much
Denuvo's well and good, but games that have used it recently (like Battlefield Hardline, JC3, Mad Max) haven't seen a massive upswing in sales compared to their predecessors or similar games in their genres. Meanwhile many games that don't use it (like GTAV, Fallout 4) completely dominate in sales and have eclipsed their predecessors in units sold. It's effective but I'm not convinced it's worth much. I imagine it's expensive to implement.
VivaciousSoul
Member
What is the wrong that has been committed and what is the damage that has been done?
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Do you have trouble reading or am I not clear enough?
He should be happy that people are interested in his game, not that they're pirating it.
I'm sure a massive portion would have pirated either way, but the price point probably didn't help. In any case, I can't imagine the game won't be a huge sales success in the long run, irrespective of the pirating. Same situation with so many other games, like Witcher 3 as well for example, which still went on to sell a boat load despite being one of the most pirated games of the year.
I understand he expanded the scope by a ton, but this also undoubtedly raised the price since it took more time and money. Personally I would have been much more interested in a smaller scale game with 200 puzzles instead of 600 for $20 instead, with additional puzzles as dlc or a season pass. As DV said earlier in this thread its hard to justify considering I'm not even sure I'll enjoy the game, and even if I do how much time would I care to play? I know there's steam refunds available, but still.
Really glad that he's getting a lot of positive press, but I'm also unfortunately not surprised by the piracy
. A bit surprised at the games budget, though to be honest
Really glad that he's getting a lot of positive press, but I'm also unfortunately not surprised by the piracy
. A bit surprised at the games budget, though to be honestCanada Dry
Banned
People are inherently bad, and if they can get away with something they will.
Also, this is why PC doesn't deserve same-day release for multi-platform titles. Rockstar has it right -- release a year after or not at all.
Also, this is why PC doesn't deserve same-day release for multi-platform titles. Rockstar has it right -- release a year after or not at all.
digitalrelic
Banned
Great post. So sick of these clowns making excuses for theft.
Last time I checked, this game seems to be amazing. Nothing but 10 for scores.
What I'm getting off this is that because its an indie game for $40. You think indie games cannot be priced anything higher above $20.
Because they are indie games, an amazing game is just amazing
Yea it's complete bullshit to be treated like 2nd tier customers. Utter nonsense.
RowdyReverb
Member
Because even playing devil's advocate will invariably draw attacks
There is a strong correlation in music, film and television between high piracy numbers and high profit margins. The three most pirated shows are Game of Thrones (HBO's biggest hit), The Walking Dead (AMC's biggest hit) and The Big Bang Theory (Network's most successful sitcom).
If you go and look at the most seeded torrents in the games section, you get Fallout 4, GTA 5, Minecraft, Fifa, etc.
It sure seems like if you're being pirated a lot, it means you have the mindshare for extreme success anyway.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
The only one needing a reality check is you... what is wrong with you dude???
Dude just spend about 7-8 years of development on the game(and he did that by using what he made from braid + outside financing) and then holy shit it's like the biggest sin ever that his perspective is colored by his own emotions and worry of his future.
Rofl, yeah guy needs a reality check on how piracy works blablabla. /s Never read something more cringe inducing. Some of the people here actually utter such insane nonsense hard not to get angry at that and wish all of them misery in their jobs.
31GhostsIV
Banned
No, the risk is higher. People will buy retail knowing they at least have the trade in/sell option if they regret the purchase. With digital, on PSN at least, you're stuck with a £30 game you don't want. £30 is hardly 'the norm' for PSN-only titles.
Mithos
Member
No they are not...
If you "demo every damn game you buy and refund", 100% Valve will call it abuse, and your account will be blocked from ever refunding again.
Effigenius
Member
But thats a game that came out years ago, so those people already had a chance to buy the game back then. A brand new game is a little different.
Already Torn
Banned
Because there's no excuse for piracy, and no excuse for defending it.
lol
Well obviously not with every single game on the Steam store haha. They list "just not liking the game after an hour" as a valid reason to refund though. That's a demo to me, and if you disagree then we can just call it whatever you prefer.
sometimes it's useful to remember that playing devil's advocate is, literally, advocating the devil
besides, there are absolutely people in this thread defending piracy, not just explaining it.
Jacksinthe
Banned
So... Nobody knows who blow is?
Really?
If they had no clue who he was and wasn't interested, how would people know to pirate his game like crazy day one? I guarantee you his games have been pirated a lot more than mine.
Not knowing a dev has its merits, but this is Blow, not me.
Reality of the market is that the indie scene is huge. Its not niche anymore. Its not Uncharted territory. Sony and MS have embraced it A LOT. They both make a big deal out of Indies.
There is no aversion, only excuses.
I was pretty bothered by the high price (as someone who prefers to buy physcial games) but I still purchased it on PS4 as 1) it's an amazing game and 2) I did want to support the team. That said, I can see a lot of folks balking at the price. $40 for what they perceive to be another indie game? Shame.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
I think some are confusing explaining why some pirate and defending piracy.
digitalrelic
Banned
... But you can't pirate PSN games and the PC version has refund options available. So this argument doesn't work. Once again, there's no excuse for pirating.
Everyone in the gaming hobby has a bizzare group mentality and actively admonishes everyone for deviating from it. This is why everyone has to preface all of thier posts with "Well I would never do this BUT" just to avoid all the shouting and accusations.
Movalpolos
Banned
http://store.steampowered.com/about/
but look at the music and movie industry, they are almost completely dead. and the pc market is next /s
No I don't want a link, I want your input.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Which could also be pirate on both X360 and PS3 at the time.
Coffee Dog
Banned
explaining reasons why a game was pirated isn't even advocating for the devil, though.
it's attempting to look at a situation in a way that is slightly more nuanced than clutching your pearls and wondering how this could possibly happen to such a good dev.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
How is the game selling? That's the only question that matters. Popular with pirates is neither a negative or positive business sentiment.
derExperte
Member
Probably every single new popular game lands in the top spots on certain sites and they still go on to sell and sell and sell so the whole 'should've released on PC later or not at all' is nonsense. Let's wait and see how much money it makes and maybe stop giving pirates more attention by not mentioning them on your official Twitter feed.
Yes, let's ignore all the money same-day releases make on PC. Or the money PC-exclusive games make. Wtf is going on in here?
Yes, let's ignore all the money same-day releases make on PC. Or the money PC-exclusive games make. Wtf is going on in here?
Movalpolos
Banned
It's stealing. Regardless if you decide to play the game or not.
So your saying indie devs should never go above the $20 price point no matter how well polished and deep it is in comparison to AAA titles? Even if that title cost several million to produce? I'm glad you aren't the one setting price points for games. No one would be getting paid.
Piracy is still fairly large on PC and devs should know there will be some of it when you release on PC, but the moniker of indie shouldn't be what determines your price point. This is just another helping of victim blaming.
It's not the pirate's fault for pirating the game, it's the developer for overpricing their product. For shame!
Give me a fucking break.
So true.
Already Torn
Banned
Or demo office supplies at work
Because not every devil needs an advocate.
As if the two are not inseparable in this context.
Diablo 2 was pirated to kingdom come and still sold millions. I don't buy this argument.
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