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[Muskieratboi]

shoulda released a demo.

A lot of peeps are on the fence about a $40US puzzle game, regardless of how "huge" it is.

 

[Venfayth]

I'm really not sure what makes this game not worth $40 - because it's a puzzle game?

 

[Mass_Pincup]

I'm surprised he didn't do a timed console exclusive for this reason.

That wouldn't change anything.

 

[hughesta]

Pirates are the worst. I'm glad I bought it, and even more glad that I convinced a large number of friends to buy it as well. Hope sales pick up.

 

[dan2026]

This A++/Indie distinction has got to go.
It seems actively harmful.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Isn't this an example of pricing yourself out of the market? I mean, piracy is completely wrong, but I doubt the vast majority of pirates would have paid $40 for the game in the first place.

Doubt it, The Talos Principle sold 500K on Steam alone and it cost 40 bucks and it's still at that price point. Helps that CroTeam puts game breaking/anti-privacy in pirate version of the game. In Talos you get stuck in an elevator if you have a pirate version.

 

[Somnid]

I think in general piracy is getting less socially acceptable in the US but unfortunately that's not the case in much of the world. Hopefully we can continue to improve this.

 

[PlatypusDude]

Also I dont get the $40 complaint.

The game has more content than most $60 games.
What metric are we even holdong it to?

Indie games are all the same and all are clearly not worth more than 20 bucks max of course. Even if the game had a 6 million dollar budget according to the creator of the game.

 

[Demoskinos]

Yeah, people are assholes.

Try to focus on the sales you are getting instead of the ones you aren't. Chances are most of those people wouldn't have paid for your game in any context.



There's nothing wrong with the price point.

Its the thing keeping me away from checking it out. I'd have to imagine many others feel the same way. $20 I'd bite but for $40? Nah.

He would most likely get way more sales at $20 a bulk of might be people who pirated the game.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Isn't this an example of pricing yourself out of the market? I mean, piracy is completely wrong, but I doubt the vast majority of pirates would have paid $40 for the game in the first place.

Pirates pirate $10 games all the time. It makes no difference at all. It's not an issue of price (most of the time), it's an issue of entitlement (most of the time).

In this case, people don't think they should have to pay $40 for a puzzle game. Therefore, they feel entitled to steal it. These people are garbage people.

 

[Lingitiz]

He even sells a DRM free version on his website/HumbleStore, that's just asking for disaster. The smart thing would have been to either do PS4 and XB1 first, PC months later or invest in working DRM.

Bad idea. Regardless of piracy, Steam is the primary market for indie games. Sales may not be crazy right now but it's definitely going to have long legs especially as the price trickles down.

 

[Mass Effect]

You're not entitled to a game just because you can't pay for it. That's wrong and devs should speak out against it.

The piracy apologists in this thread holy shit.

Literally no one has said this. Calm down.

 

[jett]

There's not much you can do about it - We saw torrents of Ori popping up with literally hundreds of thousands of downloads...

Pirates gonna pirate - It's clear that if people don't support these games by buying them, they just won't get made again, cause nobody puts a bunch of money into development of a game that doesn't even make its money back.

I feel for Blow since I think Witness is a great game and I bought it + a bunch of copies for friends upon release, but I don't know how much it helps at this point to publicly speak out against pirates.

For comparison's sake, Ori has over half a million sales. Then again, it's half the price of The Witness.

The problem with The Witness is that the line puzzle mechanic drove away people, thinking the game would just a series of simple maze puzzles, which it ain't. And probably most importantly, Blow took way too fucking long making, consequently spending more money than he should have. And then there's the price. I guess these in are fact multiple factors.

 

[Seiru]

He even sells a DRM free version on his website/HumbleStore, that's just asking for disaster. The smart thing would have been to either do PS4 and XB1 first, PC months later or invest in working DRM.

Yeah, fuck over your paying fans on PC to spite people who pirate everything anyways.

This is the position I'm arguing against in this topic, not that piracy is wrong.

 

[Sylas]

Steam players get to play games for two hours before deciding if they want a refund or not.

That still requires $40 to be available to the person at that precise moment. What about the person that would have to save up $40 to put the charge on a card to begin with? A demo is more easily accessible by literally everyone.

 

[KyleOnTheRun]

It's not really as much about pirates not buying, as people like me not buying it. I'm not going to pay $40 for it, so that's one less sale. So if the same X number of people pirate the game, and only Y people buy it because $40 feels like too much for them, then piracy seems to have a larger effect.

At least that's my opinion on the whole thing. It's not about people pirating it because it's too expensive, it's just about people not buying it because it's too expensive.

If someone wants to play the game but chooses not to buy it because $40 is too steep, the implicit message is, "I love this idea and want to play it and see more games like it, but not badly enough to be worth $40."

Which is totally fine! But the person who takes the next step and pirates the game is also saying, "I love this idea and want to play it and see more games like it," they're just not backing it up by actually buying a copy and helping to make that happen. I think paying customers and pirates generally feel the same about a game's quality and have the same fondness for a developer, but paying customers are actually doing something to foster production and keep those great games coming. Pirates, on the other hand, are just consuming and not making good on their desire to see and play more.

 

[Tenebrous]

I'm really not sure what makes this game not worth $40 - because it's a puzzle game?

Because it has 70 hours worth of content, great art, and ridiculous attention to detail.

Spoiler

I'm waiting for $10.

 

[geordiemp]

When companies delay the PC release, and release on both consoles first, I wonder if that is an attempt to curb piracy. I wonder if Blow would have been better off releasing on PS4/XB1 first, then delaying the PC/Mobile releases.

Yup, thats what I would of done, as at least everyone that has a console and wants to play it would be temped to buy it legit.

Also some people with xb1 / PS4 and a PC may have decided to pirate who would of bought it on console. I dont know if this is a big number...who knows.

Its a tough world, some will say the money is better in my pocket. The question is how far are pubs willing to stop it.........

 

[Massa]

I doubt piracy is the reason for low sales rather than price. He should be able to make a better assessment once he gets PS4 sales numbers.

 

[ElfArmy177]

Yes, let's blame Blow for people pirating his game. It's totally worth $40 and those who don't recognize are misinformed on the nature of The Witness.

I somewhat disagree, I believe the game may be great but not once have I thought the game deserves to be 40$. I'm sure it's fantastic, and I'll purchase it when it goes on sale (no I haven't pirated it). I don't believe its fair to say "its worth it or not worth it". It's all subjective anyways.

 

[GhostTrick]

He even sells a DRM free version on his website/HumbleStore, that's just asking for disaster. The smart thing would have been to either do PS4 and XB1 first, PC months later or invest in working DRM.

How would it have been a smart thing ?

 

[Chû Totoro]

So PS4 sales must be huge then?

Seriously the 1 pirated copy means 1 less copy sold is bullshit.

And regarding the price I can't agree more. I was about to buy the game but hearing about the types of puzzles it has (take a paper and some notes means puzzle solved.. yeah ok) added with the possible motion sickness I don't want to take the risk to buy it for almost 40€. 20€ and I would go even knowing this, 30€ I would probably have bought it anyway since I hesitate the whole week knowing the points I mentioned above.

So will wait for PS+ offer (hopefully we have one).

 

[Kindekuma]

Steam players get to play games for two hours before deciding if they want a refund or not.

Steam Refunds do not exist solely as a purpose to try games out though.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Guys, calm down.

Okay. Every pirate is a potentially buyer.

I feel sorry for Blow. In my head it's just that most pirates are not willing to buy games with money.

 

[Ol No Bones]

Ass holes. I love how people try to justify theft. If you want the game pay.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Newsflash - PC games still sell well despite piracy. The myth that everyone who plays on PC pirates everything is just that. Grow up.

Diablo 3 is one of the best selling PC games of all time. Its holds a bunch of sales records on PC and it just happens to be impossible to pirate. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[Morts]

I love all these unsourced facts about why people pirate games and how they in no way indicate lost sales. Glad we got this figured out.

 

[Daedardus]

Aren't the best selling games, or the most watched tv shows also the most pirated ones, because they are the most popular product at that time? As long as regular sales are still strong, it has no use complaining about 'lost revenue', since it's something immeasurable and untangible.

 

[toythatkills]

Isn't this an example of pricing yourself out of the market? I mean, piracy is completely wrong, but I doubt the vast majority of pirates would have paid $40 for the game in the first place.

Fuck this victim-blaming shit.

 

[MThanded]

Isn't this an example of pricing yourself out of the market? I mean, piracy is completely wrong, but I doubt the vast majority of pirates would have paid $40 for the game in the first place.

Game is probably under priced honestly.

We defending piracy now?

 

[chogidogs]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[TouchMyBox]

Also I dont get the $40 complaint.

The game has more content than most $60 games.
What metric are we even holdong it to?

It's indie, so it's not worth more than $10, obviously.

 

[Lingitiz]

Yup, thats what I would of done, as at least everyone that has a console and wants to play it would be temped to buy it legit.

God I despise this train of thought.

More likely that the people who were going to pirate the just don't do anything.

 

[family_guy]

Where is the evidence for that claim? It's really not outlandish to assume that a sizable number of people would be willing to pirate a $40 game, but at the same time pay for a $5-10 game on sale.

There's the sense of entitlement that they should have it right now when it will probably be $20 at the next Steam sale. They could just wait it out. Not like the game can really be spoiled for you.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Don't be a dick about his perfectly valid point. Who knows if that pirater would have bought it the next time it will go on sale? That is a flimsy argument.

I'm not sure one flimsy argument should be used to counter another flimsy argument.

 

[The Jackdog]

Also I dont get the $40 complaint.

The game has more content than most $60 games.
What metric are we even holdong it to?

value is subjective

 

[Noray]

$40 is too steep, and lots of people use piracy as demos anyway

That argument is bullshit now with steam refunds. It's always been bullshit.

 

[pastrami]

I would be interested to see the ratio of pirated downloads and sales. Is the ratio similar to releases like Talos Principle? Or is The Witness being disproportionately affected by pirates? And if so, why?

 

[Ronin Ray]

Meanwhile..

I have no clue how this has anything to do with this topic or thread.

Piracy sucks and people saying things like the price of the game affected this are crazy.

 

[Exile20]

You're not entitled to a game just because you can't pay for it. That's wrong and devs should speak out against it.

The piracy apologists in this thread holy shit.

Calm down dude. Piracy has been going on since gaming started on PC. This isn't anything new.

All any dev can do is brace for the piracy and factor it in. Pirates will continue to pirate. It sucks but what can you do?

 

[Tenebrous]

Diablo 3 is one of the best selling PC games of all time. Its holds a bunch of sales records on PC and it just happens to be impossible to pirate. Coincidence? I think not.

If it were possible to pirate Diablo III, it'd still be one of the best selling PC games of all time. You can't use Blizzard games as an example when they're literally the biggest most beloved developer in the PC space.

 

[Majine]

It's sort of artsy, so it should've been max 15 bucks.

 

[Already Torn]

Also I dont get the $40 complaint.

The game has more content than most $60 games.
What metric are we even holdong it to?

Most games like this are less than $20

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

I'm really not sure what makes this game not worth $40 - because it's a puzzle game?

yeah, some seem to be treating it like puzzle games are categorically cheap. Nevermind that it's a huuuuge game, it's basically $40 tetris, seems to be the reasoning.

 

[Zach]

Only on PC presumably.
Hopefully PS4 sales are good

I did my part.
Downloading now and fully prepared to feel like an idiot. :}

Me, too! I'm not particularly good at puzzle games, but it looks ambitious and pretty, so I figured why not help the guy out. Hopefully with the help of friends and family, I'll be able to complete the game one day.

 

[entremet]

Most games like this are less than $20

Could you give me a game like this at less than 20 bucks?

New release price too. Not discounted price.

 

[WEGGLES]

the third statement is worse than the second because they're just trying to make themselves feel better about pirating it.

Yeah. If you can't afford it, or don't think it is worth its current price... wait for it to be cheaper to play it. Don't pirate and buy later. That just reeks of entitlement. The game is not pay what you want, and certainly is not play now pay what you want when it eventually hits that price point.


The game is fantastic and worth every penny. Plus "A dude making a game" is the last person you should pirate from.

 

[KarmaCow]

shoulda released a demo.

A lot of peeps are on the fence about a $40US puzzle game, regardless of how "huge" it is.

Not sure how a demo would work or how it would convince anyone. Each area on it's own is pretty meh, the game really is about each area in concert where learning a new rule informs other areas. Not to mention the ability to just leave an area to try something else greatly alleviates the frustration of getting stuck on a puzzle.

And I don't really buy that anyone is shocked people are scoffing at paying $40 for a puzzle game.

 

[flkraven]

When auto theft is on the rise, and people are stealing tons of a specific model of car, my first thought is always that the car probably priced itself out of the market....

 

[digitalrelic]

And people wonder why things like Denuvo are becoming a necessity.

Fucking pirates. They're criminals, simple as that.