• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

AP: NFL finds it probable that Patriots deliberately deflated balls

Status
Not open for further replies.
braves01 said:
They don't really come to any definite conclusion other than more statistical work needs to be done, though they do acknowledge some benefit is more likely under the models they use even if the link between deflation and fumbles remains speculative.
Click to expand...
I won't pretend that I understand what they are talking about, but it sounds bad.

But the fun part is when you get all Bayesian about it. As I said at the time, the existence of the Patriots’ extremely low fumble rate, as a Bayesian matter, makes it much more likely that the Patriots were intentionally cheating – even though the link between fumble rates and inflation levels is only speculative. That’s the beauty of Bayesianism. But it gets better: Now that it seems likely that the Patriots were violating the rules to gain an advantage, the fact that they also had an extremely low fumble rate makes it more likely that the relationship between inflation levels and fumbling is real – and more likely that the Patriots have materially benefited from their cheating.
Click to expand...
 
Saying fans of other teams are salty is a weak defense. You damn right we are salty, that much should be obvious to anyone with a brain. But that does nothing to dimish the fact that your team cheated, got caught, and now has lied about it.

But it'll all work out in the end. Even if Brady gets punished he'll bounce back, continue make the playoffs year after year, and maybe win another ring or two. Meanwhile us non fans will continue to stay salty. All we can hope for is Brady's retirement and the subsequent descent into the shitter the Pats franchise takes. We can wait.
 
bionic77 said:
I won't pretend that I understand what they are talking about, but it sounds bad.

But the fun part is when you get all Bayesian about it. As I said at the time, the existence of the Patriots’ extremely low fumble rate, as a Bayesian matter, makes it much more likely that the Patriots were intentionally cheating – even though the link between fumble rates and inflation levels is only speculative. That’s the beauty of Bayesianism. But it gets better: Now that it seems likely that the Patriots were violating the rules to gain an advantage, the fact that they also had an extremely low fumble rate makes it more likely that the relationship between inflation levels and fumbling is real – and more likely that the Patriots have materially benefited from their cheating.
Click to expand...


But Bill didn't know anything!! he is innocent!
 
The Albatross said:
That's not actually his interpretation, that's what the report says.

"It is more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware of inappropriate activities."

I agree with you, it's hilarious.
Click to expand...

Microsoft should get brady for the next halo commercial

just make him stand in a podium and say with a straight face how the game will work.
 
Elwood Blues said:
You forgot serial murder. Forgot what team he played for.
Click to expand...

Best damn murderer in NFL history and don't you forget it.

More seriously though, Pats canned him the second that came out, even before the process played out which would have guaranteed no more money being owed him. They really did do the stand up thing there, and that's not fanboy drivel.
 
bionic77 said:
Why did Brady deflate the balls again?

Is it so his hands wouldn't look quite so small on television?

And lets not forget the Pats amazingly improbable fumble rate.

But guys, lets stop talking about the cheating (2nd time they were caught, who knows what they got away with) and just acknowledge that the Pats are the undisputed greatest of all time because that will make their diehard fans feel better!
Click to expand...

Thinking something gains you a competitive advantage, is not the same as having a competitive advantage. So let's get mathematical about this then. How many extra wins did the .1 to .5 decrease in PSI give the Patriots? 25%? 50%? Can you even comprehend how ridiculous the notion is? My guess is that you can, you just choose not to.

And when Tom comes back from his suspension and performs up to his usual standards, what will you say then? I bet it will be anything but acknowledging that the ball pressure had no effect on the games, as the second half of AFC championship and the Super Bowl showed (against one of the best defense in the last decade, no less!).
 
Jesus. Pats fans will never get it. This ain't about Ben raping women or Greg Hardy beating his girlfriend.

This is about your cheatin' ass quarterback being a cheatin' ass quarterback. He got caught in his bullshit and now brought this upon your team. Why do you think Bill hasn't said shit? Tom has probably already called him crying with some "what do I coach, what do I do?" bullshit. Bill probably just hung up on him.

This is like getting caught red handed stealing from the cookie jar and then you bring up some kid that did it last year. Just shut the fuck up and accept that you've been caught and that it's your turn to suffer the consequences. From what I've heard Brady is going to address the report? Man is that going to be good... He'll probably take his sweet time constructing that response though...
 
Elwood Blues said:
You forgot serial murder. Forgot what team he played for.
Click to expand...

Well, to be fair, Robert Kraft's statement was used as testimony against Hernandez in his trial. Before that, the team cut him within a few hours of him being arrested and gave refunds for any Hernandez jerseys as soon as he was indicted.

Greg Hardy, Ray Rice, etc., were in pads and ready to take the field. Ravens fans gave him a standing ovation. Before the Monday night Ravens game, fans held signs that said "Free Ray Rice."
 
Spinluck said:
Jesus. Pats fans will never get it. This ain't about Ben raping women or Greg Hardy beating his girlfriend.

This is about your cheatin' ass quarterback being a cheatin' ass quarterback. He got caught in his bullshit and now brought this upon your team. Why do you think Bill hasn't said shit? Tom has probably already called him crying with some "what do I coach, what do I do?" bullshit. Bill probably just hung up on him.

This is like getting caught red handed stealing from the cookie jar and then you bring up some kid that did it last year. Just shut the fuck up and accept that you've been caught and that it's your turn to suffer the consequences. From what I've heard Brady is going to address the report? Man is that going to be good... He'll probably take his sweet time constructing that response though...
Click to expand...
No dude. We aren't smart enough to realize that statistically it makes no difference to how great the Patriots are. They would have been just as successful even without the cheating. Now we can't explain why they were cheating because it gains them no benefit (apparently) and has only resulted in the destruction of their legitimacy and reputations. We have to ignore the repeated cheating and just acknowledge their greatness because of reasons!
 
Spinluck said:
Jesus. Pats fans will never get it. This ain't about Ben raping women or Greg Hardy beating his girlfriend.

This is about your cheatin' ass quarterback being a cheatin' ass quarterback. He got caught in his bullshit and now brought this upon your team. Why do you think Bill hasn't said shit? Tom has probably already called him crying with some "what do I coach, what do I do?" bullshit. Bill probably just hung up on him.

This is like getting caught red handed stealing from the cookie jar and then you bring up some kid that did it last year. Just shut the fuck up and accept that you've been caught and that it's your turn to suffer the consequences. From what I've heard Brady is going to address the report? Man is that going to be good... He'll probably take his sweet time constructing that response though...
Click to expand...

It would be if it were a bigger infraction. The NFL did not care about this rule at all until the media got a hold of it. Even if Tom did ti all himself, it still wouldn't even be a big deal as the rule is so minor, the NFL didn't even know anything about it. If they did, this never would have lasted months on end with research going into ideal gas law and its relation to footballs.
 
I, for one, am astonished the Patriots would have to resort to institutionalized cheating to win games. Speak of a coach that didn't trust his team.
 
Narag said:
I, for one, am astonished the Patriots would have to resort to institutionalized cheating to win games. Speak of a coach that didn't trust his team.
Click to expand...
But their cheating was the kind that doesn't make a difference!

Its not like kind of cheating that other teams do and are not caught for!
 
The Albatross said:
So, you may have blocked this out, but Tom Brady started the Super Bowl against the best team in the NFC, and led his team to a thrilling victory. Let's say that he takes your approach, given that you are a PR master, and he says 2 weeks before the Super Bowl "Guys, I have to come clean, I asked these two guys to doctor our balls after the refs checked them."

You realize... he would have been suspended for the Super Bowl, right? His team would have lost, and you would have thought he was a cheater (with good reason, he admitted to it).

These sorts of things break down by fan bases. If you are a fan of another team, Tom Brady is already a cheater to you... He was a cheater after the Tuck Rule. He was a cheater after SpyGate. He was a cheater after anything else, and especially after this fiasco. Yet, if you're a fan of the Patriots, or Brady, or a fan of the American Dream, then you don't think that Brady is a cheater (back in January). So, back in January, if he says "Hey guys, there's no hard proof of it, but I want to come clean and tell you that like Aaron Rodgers, I've broken the rules by inflating footballs to my preference" then people who aren't fans of the Patriots are going to continue to think he's a cheater, the league would actually have an admission of guilt from him, and then people who give him the benefit of the doubt (Patriots fans) would have to admit this guy isn't completely on the up and up.

Or, you deny, you realize the league has basically no hard evidence on you, you wait 4 months for this 250 page report, you let your team and spokes people point out all of the issues with the report, and then you play it by ear after that. He could still come out this week or next and admit to wrong doing, but I doubt he will. THe court of public opinion decided 13, 14 years ago that Brady is a cheater, and fans of other squads doubled down on it after 2007 (with good reason). So you can either indict yourself which gets you nothing or you can call the leagues bluff, win a Super Bowl in the process, and wait until May to see what the resolution is.

Expanding on this, think of Ray Lewis after 2000. He could have come out and said, "Guys, I admit it, I was in a club and my gun went off and I was an accessory to first-degree murder. I'm sorry." The court of public opinion determined that Lewis was a murderer, fans of every other team in the NFL knew he was a murderer, Ravens fans gave him the benefit of the doubt, and he let the legal process play out. As it was, there wasn't enough evidence against him, and he went onto have a heralded, multi-SB winning career. And yet, 15 years later, fans of other teams still think that Ray Lewis is a murderer who got away with one. But, he's not in jail, he's a multi-millionare, he's a hall of famer and considered one of the greatest linebackers of all time. Dishonest guy? Probably. Bad PR? Probably not.
Click to expand...
well said, especially on the Ray Lewis murder case part. Hes not even playing football anymore and has not been found guilty on the murders and people still try to insult the Ravens and Ray Lewis legacy by calling him a murderer. People will be people. You can't even continue to fight with people like that because there minds are already made up. I like a good respectable debate but I have noticed on here that people passionate about how they feel will start to personally attack you with insults if you disagree. Fuck you, you are scum for supporting those cheaters etc. Its crazy man.
 
Elwood Blues said:
This is fanboy drivel. No respect for the history of the NFL and OJ Simpson.
Click to expand...

Lies! OJ only killed 2 and ended up in jail for stealing bacK his own stuff. AH killed 3 so far, plus shot another dude in the face. AH for the win!



Fuck, did I really just type that?
 
bionic77 said:
But their cheating was the kind that doesn't make a difference!

Its not like kind of cheating that other teams do and are not caught for!
Click to expand...

I am waiting for your thread on the Atlanta Falcons, decrying them for pumping in fake crowd noise. What a disgrace they are! They should be stripped of all their achievements last year for that great competitive advantage it afforded them! You could certainly see the effect it had on their record! Oh wait...
 
NickFire said:
It kind of sucks having to take so many days off for victory parades.
Click to expand...

Oh jeez, yeah, and don't forget the traffic, ugh. Took me damn near 2 hours to get home from work during our latest victory parade. You figure I'd get used to it after 2013, 2011, 2007 (THREE TIMES that year, ugh), 2005, 2004, 2001... But, nope, every time it's just a bigger celebrash than the last one!
 
Mister Saturn said:
I see a lot of Pats fans behaving with the same manner of head-in-sand that Penn St fans did, so at the least they seem of the same ilk...
Click to expand...

I'm glad that you consider a football being deflated to 12.4 PSI to be on par with your college supporting the rape and molestation of dozens of children.

Apples to apples.
 
beef3483 said:
I am waiting for your thread on the Atlanta Falcons, decrying them for pumping in fake crowd noise. What a disgrace they are! They should be stripped of all their achievements last year for that great competitive advantage it afforded them! You could certainly see the effect it had on their record! Oh wait...
Click to expand...
Check out the NFL thread where I post regularly on this subject and many others.

We are equally hard on all cheaters and any team that is fielding scumbags. The difference is most fanbases are not as defensive as the Pats.
 
The Albatross said:
Oh jeez, yeah, and don't forget the traffic, ugh. Took me damn near 2 hours to get home from work during our latest victory parade. You figure I'd get used to it after 2013, 2011, 2007 (THREE TIMES that year, ugh), 2005, 2004, 2001... But, nope, every time it's just a bigger celebrash than the last one!
Click to expand...

Please don't remind me of those horrors. And how about trying to find a decent duck boat to ride in on those days. Every single one already taken by people whose rings are so numerous lifting their hands causes carpel tunnel. And always worrying if those rings are adorned with blood diamonds? I can't even!
 
The Albatross said:
I'm glad that you consider a football being deflated to 12.4 PSI to be on par with your college supporting the rape and molestation of dozens of children.

Apples to apples.
Click to expand...

I was talking about the crazy fan defense of both, but keep thinking that I was equating cheating to rape and molestation if it makes you feel better.
 
Alligatorjandro said:
Not as bad as supporting rapists like steelers fans do
Click to expand...
Which Steelers fans are out there supporting rape?

Most Steeler fans on the NFL thread wanted to trade Ben because they wanted to start over or were more rational and wanted to trade him for a superior qb. And by superior I am talking about objective things like winning ability, morality, and how good they look running in the rain without their shirt on. We even IDed the replacement but the Eagles stole him from us!
 
bionic77 said:
Check out the NFL thread where I post regularly on this subject and many others.

We are equally hard on all cheaters and any team that is fielding scumbags. The difference is most fanbases are not as defensive as the Pats.
Click to expand...

Yep. Difference with us is the Patriots cheat and win and the other 30 teams cheat and lose, so lots more chances to defend them.

Leaving Arizona out of this. They play fair and also lose.
 
beef3483 said:
I am waiting for your thread on the Atlanta Falcons, decrying them for pumping in fake crowd noise. What a disgrace they are! They should be stripped of all their achievements last year for that great competitive advantage it afforded them! You could certainly see the effect it had on their record! Oh wait...
Click to expand...

The Falcons fired Roddy White for that.
 
bionic77 said:
Check out the NFL thread where I post regularly on this subject and many others.

We are equally hard on all cheaters and any team that is fielding scumbags. The difference is most fanbases are not as defensive as the Pats.
Click to expand...

Except for the Texans and Mr Wholesome Justin James Watt. So dreamy! <3<3<3
 
Mister Saturn said:
I was talking about the crazy fan defense of both, but keep thinking that I was equating cheating to rape and molestation if it makes you feel better.
Click to expand...

Nah, I don't feel better about kids being molested (do you?), but it just makes your point less relevant and impactful.

"Patriots fans defend their team just like how every fan defends their team" has a lot less punch than "Patriots fans defend their team just like how Penn State fans defend child rape."
 
Deflated footballs are still lol.

I just want Tom to answer for the fact that he supports Mayweather. It's a bad example and supporting a domestic abuser is plain unacceptable.
 
Mister Saturn said:
I was talking about the crazy fan defense of both, but keep thinking that I was equating cheating to rape and molestation if it makes you feel better.
Click to expand...

Makes no difference. Somebody defending a molester is not the same as someone defending a person who "it was more probable than not" knew about deflated balls in a football game.

Anyways, I'm out. This whole thing has reminded me of how futile it is to argue on the internet.

And BTW, Bionic77, I'm a Lions fan, though I will admit that I've followed and rooted for Tom Brady since his days at Michigan. And I have followed him closely enough to know that he's not a bad guy, even if he comes out and admits this tomorrow. I'll just reiterate that this a wrist-slap offense which had no effect on the outcome of games, and this was proven by the Patriots performance in the second half of the conference championship and the Superbowl.
 
Big-E said:
It would be if it were a bigger infraction. The NFL did not care about this rule at all until the media got a hold of it. Even if Tom did ti all himself, it still wouldn't even be a big deal as the rule is so minor, the NFL didn't even know anything about it. If they did, this never would have lasted months on end with research going into ideal gas law and its relation to footballs.
Click to expand...

That's the thing though, that is off field shit. Yeah domestic violence is a huge problem in the league right now and Goodell has already proven he's not suited to deal with such matters.

Pats fans suddenly becoming advocates for these things whenever their team gets caught doing shady stuff isn't a good look though.



Narag said:
I, for one, am astonished the Patriots would have to resort to institutionalized cheating to win games. Speak of a coach that didn't trust his team.
Click to expand...

:jnc

MechDX said:
Tom can only cast it about 15 yards so we should stand 20 yards away
Click to expand...

:jnc

bionic77 said:
Which Steelers fans are out there supporting rape?

Most Steeler fans on the NFL thread wanted to trade Ben because they wanted to start over or were more rational and wanted to trade him for a superior qb. And by superior I am talking about objective things like winning ability, morality, and how good they look running in the rain without their shirt on. We even IDed the replacement but the Eagles stole him from us!
Click to expand...

:jnc
 
Anyway, chums, off to bed. Just to clear the air, I'm pretty sure Brady knew about the footballs and instructed those two jokers to let some air out below 12.5 PSI; I think it's completely irrelevant to any of their wins and his performance, but still bad form and against the rules. My Pats defending is just ribbing ya for good fun.

That said, though, my parting advice is that you focus on your own team and stop worrying about the Patriots so much.

You're all wasting this golden time in the NFL annual schedule worrying about New England. Normally, the first week of May is the best time of the year for you, because it's the time when your teams look like they have a shot at being relevant for more than, eh, 6 or 7 weeks. It's a long, sad year: make the best of these golden weeks.

'night ya'll! g'bless

eA46XH3l.jpg
 
The Albatross said:
Anyway, chums, off to bed. Just to clear the air, I'm pretty sure Brady knew about the footballs and instructed those two jokers to let some air out below 12.5 PSI; I think it's completely irrelevant to any of their wins and his performance, but still bad form and against the rules. My Pats defending is just ribbing ya for good fun.

That said, though, my parting advice is that you focus on your own team and stop worrying about the Patriots so much.

You're all wasting this golden time in the NFL annual schedule worrying about New England. Normally, the first week of May is the best time of the year for you, because it's the time when your teams look like they have a shot at being relevant for more than, eh, 6 or 7 weeks.

'night ya'll! g'bless

eA46XH3l.jpg
Click to expand...

Goddamn that is a beautiful jacket.
 
The Albatross said:
Nah, I don't feel better about kids being molested (do you?), but it just makes your point less relevant and impactful.

"Patriots fans defend their team just like how every fan defends their team" has a lot less punch than "Patriots fans defend their team just like how Penn State fans defend child rape."
Click to expand...

Just because I'm a Huskers fan doesn't mean I was out there defending Pelini's behavior towards his players, or that I'm going to defend Ndamukong Suh everytime he pulls some dirty shit on other players. My point was that you Pats fans seem to be just as willfully oblivious with your cheating-ass cheaters as a lot of the Penn St fans were with Joe Pa and Sandusky.
 
Alligatorjandro said:
I need somebody to tell me how I should act as a patriot fan during this time.
Click to expand...
Denounce the quarterback, coach and owner for allowing a culture of cheating to continue (even after they were previously caught and punished).

Lobby for a new coach, a new qb, and pray for a new owner that is not so douchey.

Its not rocket science. Basically just behave like the fans of about 20 other franchises. You and them should all be ashamed, just for different reasons.
 
bionic77 said:
Denounce the quarterback, coach and owner for allowing a culture of cheating to continue (even after they were previously caught and punished).

Lobby for a new coach, a new qb, and pray for a new owner that is not so douchey.

Its not rocket science. Basically just behave like the fans of about 20 other franchises. You and them should all be ashamed, just for different reasons.
Click to expand...
I m outraged.

Is that good enough.
 
bionic77 said:
Denounce the quarterback, coach and owner for allowing a culture of cheating to continue (even after they were previously caught and punished).

Lobby for a new coach, a new qb, and pray for a new owner that is not so douchey.

Its not rocket science. Basically just behave like the fans of about 20 other franchises. You and them should all be ashamed, just for different reasons.
Click to expand...

rofl, i like how you think other NFL franchises would react in similar fashion to such small shit.

Maybe the Patriot fans aren't the delusional ones.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

CBC balls deep in the oilers?
9
475
kikkis replied
🏈 NFL 2025
17 18 19 20 21
1K
13K
TDiddyLive replied
USA brings NFL style ad breaks to FIFA World Cup
39
1K
YCoCg replied
NFL fans: the once great commercial-free NFL RedZone channel will have commercials starting this season
22
1K
Unknown Soldier replied
Former NFL quarterback Mark Sanchez stabbed in Indianapolis. In critical condition.
31
1K
AJUMP23 replied
Top Bottom