but sub 20 man, c'mon.
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Digital Foundry: GTA V PS4 and Xbox One compared in new frame-rate stress test.
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
but sub 20 man, c'mon.
Emedan
Member
A lock is only an upper limit to ensure consistency.
The PS3 and X360 cost Sony and MS dearly so it should come as no surprise that both parties placed profitability above raw power. I'd say the days of console manufactures taking an aggressive loss-leading approach are behind us.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Given the appalling nature of Rockstar PC ports, I'd say the chances of that are pretty remote.
I have a 4.6Ghz Haswell rig with 16GB of RAM and 2x970 SLI...and I'm still not expecting a solid 100% 60fps @ 1080p experience.
..If I can get 45-60fps at 2560x1440, I'll be happy.
I'm not saying they ported each version -I'm sure they didn't. Just trying to find a way of expressing that going from either last gen console to this gen is going to inccur code challenges.
People seem to think chucking code from last gen into this gen will automatically result in smooth 30fps or 60fps which just isn't the case.
Initially you're going to have unoptimized code and likely lots of glitches/issues.
I guess people see it as being like PC where adding a better CPU and GPU means immediate run but on consoles code is so specific to a platform it doesn't work like that.
Sure, print it and put it on your wall.
Edit: By the way, Xbone does drop a ton of frames in the desert when looking at the video.
I know that my statement sounds stupid, but the guy said that it never "feels" like 30fps, which is simply not true.
I will also buy the PC version to get rid of any framedrops in January. Until then this version is pretty serviceable.
Don't get your hopes up. GTA IV was one of the worst ports in younger pc history.
Gangxxter
Member
And Max Payne 3 was one of the best.
The only benchmarks I could find were the browser based ones like sunspider, Kraken, Octane etc and Anandtech has this warning about them
Anandtech said:
So comparing Android vs iOS is not really valid due to the different ways they work which will mean comparing iOS to Windows is also invalid for the same reason. Then there is the fact that the A8 and the A8X are ARM based yet jaguar is x86 based and we have no clue as to how efficient these benchmarks are on the different architectures.
Kabini Benchmarks
This review is really good in that if you click the All Results button below each graph it gives you desktop CPU performance upto the top Intel chips. In this way we can compare a 4 core 1.6 Ghz Jaguar CPU to the top end Intel i7s.
Looking at the i5 4690 and comparing it to the 5150 you see performance across the board is around 4x faster with some instances of it being 5x faster. Considering the huge clock speed advantage the i5 has over the 5150 it just shows that IPC is not totally terrible on the Jaguar chips when you consider the die size.
This also gives us a chance to look at what a 28.1% CPU clock speed advantage gives when the GPU is the same as they are both APUs with the same GPU running at the same speed. In this case you can see that at no point does the faster clocked CPU even get a 1 FPS advantage, at best it gets a 0.8 FPS advantage which is well within the margin of error for these tests. Now some of that will be down to the fact that it is GPU limited but even in games like Sleeping Dogs which are open world you are not seeing a difference.
Another interesting one to look at is the Unity Draw Calls test on the IGP synthetic test page. That is a scenario you would expect to be CPU limited but a 28.1% clock speed advantage only gives an 11.7% higher score. Yet we are being led to believe by these so called 'experts' that a 9.4% advantage to yield a 20% fps boost. It is total bullshit and anybody who is pushing it is totally incapable of doing sound analysis. Mr Leadbetter really needs to up his game if he does not want to come across as an incompetent buffoon.
This is debatable due to the randomness of the traffic - it could be the XBO had less traffic during the examples given. As I said earlier - if you check the 'scripted driving' moments (ie where the traffic number/type is the same) the PS4 performs better.
So there's 3 possibilities during random traffic at junctions;
1) XBO performs better
2) XBO has less traffic by coincidence
3) XBO has less traffic by design
It's hard to believe point one considering what we see in the rest of the clips - it's possible the traffic is parred back marginally on XBO - like the foliage but to a lesser extent.
HORRORSHØW
Member
pathetic.
LOL. No really, LOL.
Grimløck;139794715 said:
yeap, keep on banging the "40% raw power difference" drum, then try to find what is laughable and what is not.
my 2c's
??
This is pre DF full face-off, but more effects & foliage + better overall framerate (bar a couple examples where the traffic is completely random so it's not an exact comparison).
Ashad Mamood
Banned
As someone mentioned earlier probably freeing up an extra CPU core will help most. Also they should make GPGPU processing a priority for their SDK. Freeing up some ram that's been reserved for the OS too!
alexandros
Banned
I guess it depends on one's personal preferences on the issue of visual quality vs high framerate. I said on a recent thread on the matter that I would gladly sacrifice quality for a steadier framerate. In my mind higher effects are pleasing to the eye but don't really impact gameplay. A high framerate has an immediate, tangible effect on how good the game feels to play.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
You're 2 cents aren't even worth just that. The numbers don't lie. What developers choose to do with it is up to them.
yes, I am pretty sure that down the road, maybe a couple of years from now, some people may even put back that old vinyl record on play, the one called "lazy developers".....
Ashad Mamood
Banned
Ready Salted!
krypt0nian
Banned
You should be embarrassed.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
There's gotta be some kind of word for people who don't believe in something as basic and undeniable as hardware specifications. Similar to Truthers, Birthers, etc.
That's what I'm saying from awhile that 10% of overclocked cpu it's completely meaningless in the big scheme of the things. You can't have significant advantages in performance with a minimal overheating, that's crazy. And Leadbetter, well, ok I shut up. We know what I think about him.
You and misterxmedia should get together. Fun times.
Idiots?
boredandlazy
Member
And you perpetuating that line of discussion somehow makes you above all that?
Do you own the game or have played it? I ask because I do agree with what you're saying, but the framerate is fine 99% of the time, and when it does dip it's not at all a game breaker.
boredandlazy
Member
Assassin's Creed 4 on PS4 is I think. And isn't Driveclub locked 30? The original Resistance on PS3 was absolutely locked at 30.
Forza 5/H2
I doubt. At least I doubt an engine extremely understressed can stay at 30 fps. In the linear game it's quite tough to have a similar scenario but we can try to cumulate the higher number of enemies possible to push extremely the engine and see what happens. I guess eh.
I am the one perpetuating the <<huge>> power difference? I dont think so
I have both machines since day 1, so it was very easy for me to reach my personal conclusions, long time ago.
I just made a comment about how this is nothing but funny for me to read.
there are. forza5 never drops a frame @60, horizon2 never drops a frame @30, and they are not the only ones.
but imo this has more to do with developers having tools and time (and goal) to perfectly optimize on the platform (under every load occassion I guess), rather that that it is an outcome of the ...super-powers
either of these consoles have.alexandros
Banned
I don't own it but my issue is not with the dips. I said earlier that Rockstar should have pushed for 60 fps in my opinion.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I am the one perpetuating the <<huge>> power difference? I dont think so
I have both machines since day 1, so it was very easy for me to reach my personal conclusions, long time ago.
I just made a comment about how this is nothing but funny for me to read.
You don't get to reach your own conclusion on something like this. Just like I don't personally conclude 2+2=5.
Hardware specifications are facts. Deal with it.
I don't think we are talk of fps in predictable scenario. GTA V it's locked 30 fps too looking the things from your perspective.
One of the worst ports?
I'm still not entirely certain how much of it is down to poor optimisation and how much of it is down to your graphics settings. You can pretty much eliminate all pop in if you put the slider to 100%, and dramatically increase traffic density, etc. That is a hell of a lot of shit going on at the same time, along with a lot of stuff being rendered all at once.
I kind of expect that to be pretty fucking demanding regardless of how well or poorly it is optimised.
Shhh dont bring logic into the discussion... let him preach a little bit more. I cant wait to see him and Misterxmedia joining forces. It will be a blast.
On release the PC port was quite poor but they did patch it and with driver improvements performance was pretty solid but you did need a tri core CPU or more because of how they designed the engine.
krypt0nian
Banned
I think if he received a 40% cut in pay he'd think it was huge.
So more powerful CPU in Xbone while the PS4 has a more powerful GPU? like last gen but in reverse......
krypt0nian
Banned
maybe, but the garring of ISS/TR is more noticable IMHO
just a bit lol
boredandlazy
Member
I am the one perpetuating the <<huge>> power difference? I dont think so
I have both machines since day 1, so it was very easy for me to reach my personal conclusions, long time ago.
I just made a comment about how this is nothing but funny for me to read.
No you misunderstand(maybe deliberately, I'm not sure). You're perpetuating the fps discussion by commenting on the people who actually are discussing it in a condescending manner.
Trying to act above it all whilst doing so is well, rather amusing.
And I don't care whether you own both consoles, I didn't call you a fanboy so that is irrelevant to the discussion.
boredandlazy
Member
I know what I meant. If I'm wrong then simply say so.
Windom Earle
Banned
I am used to lock GTA4 at 30fps due to the nature of the engine, so I can live with GTAV 30 locked with great AA.
That should normally work out on my rig, even though I will probably ditch my second 970. Also why are people still reacting to p3tran? He always does this.
The GTAV engine was built for last gen consoles which were very CPU focused. New engines will be designed more and more around GPU compute for new consoles which are more GPU focused... unless you are Microsoft and believe in the 'balance' theory of compromised GPUs.
Last gen CPUs were highly clocked in-order monsters for the time. New gen CPUs are low clocked with out of order execution and numerous cores requiring heavily threaded code... PS3 Cell style in a round about way.
I reckon the reason Naughty Dog could get TLOU remaster running at 60fps is because code on the CPU side was pretty well sorted for PS4 by them working on the PS3 as it was intended to be worked on. Granted, TLOU is likely less CPU taxing than an open world game like GTAV... but GTAV is a game designed primarily to work on the XBOX 360 CPU.
I suppose Xenon is a triple core CPU capable of two threads per core though. That's 6 threads which is the same as 6 Jaguar cores.
Maybe it's simply an issue when porting code written for in order PowerPC CPUs to out of order x86 CPUs. Theoretically, 6 Jaguar cores should stomp all over Xenon.. but maybe things need to be written as efficient x86 code from the outset to maximise what the CPUs in these new consoles are capable of.
Plus tons of stuff needs to move over to the GPU...which is why Mantle is so brilliant. Write your new engines to tap into the GPGPU processing power of GCN on console, easily port code to PC with Mantle.
Last gen CPUs were highly clocked in-order monsters for the time. New gen CPUs are low clocked with out of order execution and numerous cores requiring heavily threaded code... PS3 Cell style in a round about way.
I reckon the reason Naughty Dog could get TLOU remaster running at 60fps is because code on the CPU side was pretty well sorted for PS4 by them working on the PS3 as it was intended to be worked on. Granted, TLOU is likely less CPU taxing than an open world game like GTAV... but GTAV is a game designed primarily to work on the XBOX 360 CPU.
I suppose Xenon is a triple core CPU capable of two threads per core though. That's 6 threads which is the same as 6 Jaguar cores.
Maybe it's simply an issue when porting code written for in order PowerPC CPUs to out of order x86 CPUs. Theoretically, 6 Jaguar cores should stomp all over Xenon.. but maybe things need to be written as efficient x86 code from the outset to maximise what the CPUs in these new consoles are capable of.
Plus tons of stuff needs to move over to the GPU...which is why Mantle is so brilliant. Write your new engines to tap into the GPGPU processing power of GCN on console, easily port code to PC with Mantle.
Indeed so lets put this into context.
Both consoles use 6 cores for gaming with 2 running the OS and other functions. Each core can do 8 flops / clock so we can work out the GFlops for the CPUs.
Xbox 1 = 1750 * 6 * 8 = 84 GFlops.
PS4 = 1600 * 6 * 8 = 76.8 GFlops.
Now lets bring in the GPUs.
Xbox 1 = 853 * 2 * 768 = 1.31 TFlops.
PS4 = 800 * 2 * 1152 = 1.84 TFlops.
Adding that together gives
Xbox 1 raw number cruncing = 1.394 TFlops.
PS4 raw number crunching = 1.917 TFlops.
This means the PS4 has a raw number crunching advantage of 38%. If the CPU clock speeds were the same it would give the PS4 a raw number crunching advantage of 40% so that 9.4% clock speed advantage the Xbox One CPU has only gets it 2% closer in raw number crunching performance.
It is also worth bearing in mind that the PS4 has the better memory subsystem, more ROPS, more texture units and more ACE units which will also add to the performance profile in a real gaming scenario.
I don't say you're wrong. I said GTA V it's understressed when dips fps happen. The other games you are talking about has never been tested understressed so it's a tough comparison.