Oh shit son :-o
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS |OT2| Nintendo All-Stars Battle Quarter Pounder
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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Oh shit son :-o
Spacing of the cape & timing, the bowling ball has to be de-tached from Villager (so right when he drops it, not while in the act of preparing to drop it).
I feel like all world leaders should allow everyone in their respective countries to have the day off on a certain day. Then, on television, they can explain the word "objective" and its uses. Worksheets and other practice tools can be mailed to everyone in advance for further help and understanding.
Cosmic Dreams
Member
Which is why i'm beginning to understand that some fans will just never be pleased with whatever Sakurai does. The guy seems to have the fan's best interests in mind when he works on a new smash game, because I think he tries to see how to please both sides (competitive & casual) while balancing out what the other side doesn't like. But it's fine. Whatever.
I'll be having fun with you guys and other smash fans when 4 comes out, just like I did with Brawl, and just like I did with melee when that came out. Guys like Leffen are welcome to express their opinion, but that doesn't mean others aren't allowed to disagree out loud back.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Don't you think people will want to play the Wii U version before passing judgment? I'm a little surprised at this "war" stuff.
Honestly, I used to want to get into the Smash scene, but I'm so turned off by all of this
Personally, yes. I don't really feel like I can judge anything based on the 3DS version if I end up getting it. And especially not the demo that doesn't even include any characters I'm all that interested in using.
TheSlySoul
Member
Watching the GameXplain review. A bit disappointed local play has issues. Guess I will use the Wii U version for fights. Now onto the post review discussion!
Cosmic Dreams
Member
Don't you think people will want to play the Wii U version before passing judgment? I'm a little surprised at this "war" stuff.
Honestly, I used to want to get into the Smash scene, but I'm so turned off by all of this
Don't worry, the community is really great. I'm more of a spectator because I work constantly but i've visited tournaments a couple times in the past and met some great notable pros like Hugs, KoreanDJ, etc. Plus GAF has a great smash community so you're in good hands!
You're right though, lets wait for the Wii U version first.
PadWarrior
Member
WiiU got an update for Folders.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
While I love the guy and Brawl (before 4 comes out anyway) was my favorite game since it did exactly what I look for in a Smash game, I will admit that the mechanic changes he makes are normally in favor of a casual audience who I reeeeeeally think at this point wouldn't notice one way or the other.* Brawl's a funner game for a lot of non-competitive types because it has way more content, characters, items, modes, music etc., not because it stripped a lot of Melee's depth away.
If Project M was a proper release (and uh, maybe didn't have some of the uglier UI/character changes or dumbing down of stages) it'd be just as well received by the your average gamer than the actual Brawl was.
*This goes both ways since it's probably obnoxious for most of the Smash audience either apathetic or simply unaware of the competitive side to keep hearing how a game they loved is supposedly complete shit because it didn't fulfill a set criteria they weren't even aware it was meant to be meeting in the first place.
Don't you think people will want to play the Wii U version before passing judgment? I'm a little surprised at this "war" stuff.
Honestly, I used to want to get into the Smash scene, but I'm so turned off by all of this
What you're seeing online is hardly representative of what the community is like in-person. I've been to my fair share of tournaments and people are always really nice and welcoming (I even met M2K at one of the tourneys I went to). If you want to get into it, you just have to sift through and ignore the idiots -- there's plenty of people you'll make friends with and be totally cool with. Just don't expect everyone online to be so personable and just as good as the ones you met in-person.
No community is ever perfect, really. Even the general video game community at large can be pretty toxic and unwelcoming.
Askherserenity
Member
The "Japan only" in the thread title had me a bit confused. We're using the same OT for this weeks release, right?
I keep hearing people say that they don't want a Melee 2.0, they just want a Smash game that's competitive friendly and builds on what Melee accomplished in the competitive scene. What does being "competitive friendly" entail? Bringing back Melee mechanics? That sure sounds like Melee 2.0 to me...
Don't you think people will want to play the Wii U version before passing judgment? I'm a little surprised at this "war" stuff.
Honestly, I used to want to get into the Smash scene, but I'm so turned off by all of this
Don't listen to the vocal assholes. Smash community is great and fun. People prefer Melee over PM over others, but it doesn't matter. Smash 4 will have a large, healthy community. Los of old, los of new. It'll be great.
Don't you think people will want to play the Wii U version before passing judgment? I'm a little surprised at this "war" stuff.
Honestly, I used to want to get into the Smash scene, but I'm so turned off by all of this
Maaaaaaan you'd be surprised how early folks jump on games nowadays. Shit can't make it past pre-production sometimes.
Also, don't let it turn you off. I kinda' feared going out to locals and stuff when I first moved west, but especially in recent years, getting into the competitive scene a bit has been some of the best experiences I've had.
I haven't had as much interaction with my local Smash scene (yet!), but they seem cool enough, too.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
NeoGAF.gif
Play melee if you prefer melee, play Smash 4 if you prefer smash 4. Who cares which game is "superior."
WiiRevolution1
Member
Yeah Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, Paper Mario, Ridley, and a RH Rep are probably the most important characters not yet playable imo. (Tho I think any eShop rep should also be able to get in like Dillon or Mallo.)
In terms of third parties, I'd say both Jack Frost and Monster Hunter perhaps deserve to be in as DLC or in Smash 5 if they are still close to Nintendo then. Nintendo basically owns SMT (besides Persona) and MH at this point so I wouldn't consider these out there characters. Tho I think I heard the creator of MH didn't want MH in a fighting game.
This is of course, not counting expanding franchises like Pokemon or Fire Emblem with their latest reps. I suppose Anna from FE is also one of the more important characters not in the game. If there were no roster limits I'd also say that both Mewtwo should return and Blaziken should be a newcomer in the future but that ship has probably sailed for Blaziken even tho he is still quite popular.
I also think one of the more deserving reps could be 9Volt and have his moveset revolve around various 8Bit games but I don't think that'll happen.
Ultimately, there aren't many major characters left from first parties that are likely. It will be interesting to see what if any DLC newcomers will be. Something tells me they won't sell clones.
Cosmic Dreams
Member
I definitely agree. I just think people should try a game first and create their own opinion before taking a pro's opinion and making it their own.
theprodigy
Member
...maybe this is what's throwing people off lol
Faster movement, more hitstun, more combos, smaller blast zones, every character has at least one decent/reliable killing move.
That's pretty much everything I want, but just smaller blast zones would make me a lot happier already, and the final point has been fixed for quite a few vets in this game.
Haha.
It means less "taking things out competitive players like" and more "letting a skill ceiling and depth exist". I could go into more detail (and I have in the past already in this thread) but I'm not in the mood for it.
I can surmise that what people want isn't Melee 2.0 but rather a game that doesn't purposefully limit them and doesn't have an imbalance of offense and defense. People mainly didn't like Brawl because of its high-defensive based nature, which not only made it not fun to play at high level (to most people) but also not fun to spectate (no one really goes offensively in Brawl because trying to play it offensively is not possible unless you play Meta Knight, every other character has to play extremely safe and defensively while MK can do both simultaneously). On top of all the other stupid broken stuff characters could do in the game (DDD's chaingrab, Falco's chaingrab, ICs infinite chaingrabs, jab locks, footstool infinites, grab release infinites and free follow-ups from them, etc etc).
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Doesn't more hitstun sort of naturally lend itself to more combos?
I don't think this is true honestly.
Sakurai either doesn't fully understand what the competitive side wants or just plain doesn't care. His comment about the fact that to make it more competitive he'd have to make the game more complicated to play really solidified the notion for me. The fact that there's nothing really in Smash 4 that I'd say "Yeah, I can see that he added this for the competitive audience" doesn't help either.
Stuff like removing tripping and adding non-cancellable hitstun isn't something made with the competitive audience in mind, it's just fixing some legitimately bad game design from Brawl.
I mean, right at this second I'm struggling to think of anything in Smash4 that I can see him adding for the competitive players, it all just seems like fundamental problems that shouldn't have been in Brawl in the first place.
If there was some kind of turbo mode or something that increased hitstun+shieldstun, had momentum conservation and halved all landing lag then that I could see as something geared towards the competitive side, but most of the things people bring up I see as neither here nor there.
TheSlySoul
Member
So going by the discussion video, the problems are...
1) Limited by 3DS
2) Local Play can become Slideshow matches
3) Smash Run is pointless
4) No Item Spawn Rate setting
Which is what I expected. Hopefully Wii U online is solid. No Smash Run for me then besides achievements
1) Limited by 3DS
2) Local Play can become Slideshow matches
3) Smash Run is pointless
4) No Item Spawn Rate setting
Which is what I expected. Hopefully Wii U online is solid. No Smash Run for me then besides achievements
Spinosaurus
Member
Too bad grab release is still a problem.
On the one character that just so happens to be my favorite, that is.
On the one character that just so happens to be my favorite, that is.
PadWarrior
Member
From the other thread
PreyingShark
Member
Oh? Can you please elaborate?Too bad grab release is still a problem.
On the one character that just so happens to be my favorite, that is.
The Bankslammer
Member
i think smash run is cool and fun but it could've been more cool and fun if it was kirby air ride 2.0
also online
also online
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Bringing back Melee mechanics is your own inference, not something anyone else has said.
See JoeInky's post a couple pages back for changes he'd want to make. Things like more hitstun and less landing and endlag on landed hits to allow for more rewarding offense and true combos.
If the game ends up being defensive and campy it will suffer. Brawl managed to last a while just because it was the new Smash game but has since collapsed, Smash 4 may not get that opportunity if it ends up having similar problems.
Yea, but having no moves that naturally have small knockback to allow for follow-ups kind of neutralizes that. I've noticed some moves that use be great for follow-ups changed to have ridiculous kb at relatively low percents, throws especially.
Spinosaurus
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szd9f7i1Qo8
Not as bad as Brawl, but something like this shouldn't even be a thing.
Cosmic Dreams
Member
Maybe we still might see some updates to the game engine in the future? You own the game and I don't so I can't really say much as of now, but I think we'll still see updates to the game's balance or whatever.
theprodigy
Member
That's cause he sucks
TheSlySoul
Member
I think if you were not limited to a one minute match it would be better.
I actually haven't been paying close attention to everyone going into detail with their 3DS japanese smash games or any reviews so the no item setting is a surprise disappointment.
FleetingFlowAir
Member
I think this update is the reason why I got asked to agree to the Terms of Conditions recently on my 3DS before I could access Miiverse. I suggest that those who are getting digital at midnight right on time agree to it as soon as possible just in case.
Imagine if a hitstun option replaced the knockback option on the settings menu (or why not just both).
That would be amazing.
Though would tournaments ever actually use that, I thought we might be able to put it down to 0.9 in Smash 4 to try and increase the combo game, but changing those options always feels a bit... weird to me.
Character balance and infinite removal is what's going to happen as far as I can imagine, I highly doubt Sakurai would ever implement mechanical changes in a patch.
I don't even think he'd do it if there was overwhelming demand for it, but that's just my impression of his seemingly stubborn attitude.
That would be amazing.
Though would tournaments ever actually use that, I thought we might be able to put it down to 0.9 in Smash 4 to try and increase the combo game, but changing those options always feels a bit... weird to me.
Character balance and infinite removal is what's going to happen as far as I can imagine, I highly doubt Sakurai would ever implement mechanical changes in a patch.
I don't even think he'd do it if there was overwhelming demand for it, but that's just my impression of his seemingly stubborn attitude.
PreyingShark
Member
Poor fella.
Cosmic Dreams
Member
and an online option would've been better.
theprodigy
Member
"Destiny is objectively a terrible game"-one random dude in the Bayonetta thread
It legitimately baffles me this still exists in some form when I thought they had curbed it completely. They can patch it (cut some frames off of the air release animation or speed it up) but I don't know if they'll even be aware of it to fix it. They might even think the comp. community likes that sort of thing and not patch it... :/
Aaronrules380
Member
Am I the only one who doesn't get why long combos that are impossible to escape are something to be desired? I feel like I'd rather have read based follow ups that require thought on the part of both players while the combo is underway rather than letting one player be able to go on autopilot and do a ton of damage while the other person waits helplessly for the combo to end so they have a chance to escape. I also feel like those type of combos give certain types of characters a huge advantage (namely ones who are quick and have an easy time getting the first hit to initiate the long combo, since once they get a hit in it leads to a combo that gives them a much bigger advantage). I'm not a fighting game expert, or a competitive smasher, but I honestly feel like those types of combos show less skill since they essentially boil down to muscle memorization at the end of the day.
TheSlySoul
Member
Yeah, Miyamoto thought it was online. I do not blame him because the way they were advertising it. Also with local play having issues, I am even less willing to try it out.
Spinosaurus
Member
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Final Destination mode sort of indicates it's more this rather than him not caring. I doubt he felt 'For Fun' players gave a shit about playing featureless versions of the regular stages, even if going off Brawl's online data for how to go about making 'tourney friendly' versions of stages was a horrible idea since Brawl's terrible netcode seemed to naturally force people to default to FD.
Star-KO's being turned off after a certain point in timed matches or the equipment system letting you fine tune a character's balance (regardless of whether it pans out that way or not) also seem more for the competitive side, not commenting on whether that side is receptive of those features or not. Support for the GCN controllers is absolutely something done for the more hardcore audience, since I doubt any other franchise would get Nintendo to willingly develop adapters for ancient control schemes.
I really appreciate your posts outlining the custom stuff in SSB4 Joeinky but I think you're really reaching when you're slightly insinuating Sakurai doesn't give a shit about a part of Smash's fanbase. Being misguided about what they want isn't the same thing as simply being apathetic.
Developers rarely make big, worthwhile to changes in the games engine. The outliers would be Icefrog in Dota 2, and those changes come twice a year and are watched carefully and arguably still aren't massive mechanics changes. Blizzard waits til each new revision of SC2 and still doesn't change game mechanics. There are a few others but really nothing new.
Chances of an update changing core mechanics like JoeInky, me, and others are hoping for are slim-to-none. You should expect numbers balancing, and maybe small changes to stuff like recoveries, vectoring, etc etc.
@Dicks, it's pretty easy to see what competitive players want. Watch actual tournaments and see the stages they pick/ban. Watch characters. Look at what's different between Melee and Smash 4 or Melee and Brawl. Not putting much of an effort to figuring out what they want is pretty telling I think ;\
Spinosaurus
Member
There's a common aerial momentum shifting glitch with Wario which will probably get patched out, so I'm hoping they'll look over the whole character and fix the grab release problem as well. Not expecting it though. :/
When people talk combos for Smash what you're talking about is exactly what people want. The thing is, even with Smash 4's current hitstun it's not enough to allow for that interaction -- combos are really tight at higher percentages compared to Melee (which, by the way, Melee allows for the interaction in combos you're talking about. There's all kinds of reads being done in Melee to get some of the more famous combos you've seen).
However, even if the game had really high hitstun like Smash 64 things wouldn't be that "memorization" oriented because you still need to account for positioning, percentage, how big the character is, weight, fall speed, etc. etc.
I'm of the opinion that at the very least combos like in Smash 64 are better than ridiculously tight 'combos' that are otherwise unviable most of the time or are bound to be unviable as people get better at the game or no combos being in the game at all.
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