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Infamous: Second Son Review Thread
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
breakfuss
Member
Thing about Sessler (and Rev3 in general) is that they're thorough as hell. Even when I find myself disagreeing I'm still like, "well damn you have a point". lol. But now their so-called verbosity is frowned upon. Charlatans! It's crazy because we were just having a discussion on the OT side about Cloud Atlas, by all means way more divisive than any game released in recent memory. What you won't find, though, are people tearing down the reviewers and critics over opinions. Nor was anyone accused of being a wachowski fanboy or some other nonsense. Cannot wait for the gaming audience to reach this point.
Have you played 2? I thought it made some serious strides in the right direction. It took me over two years to finish the first because I kept getting bored with it. I finished the second in a little over 3 weeks. Only thing I'd say the first did better was the story (which picks up toward the end). It was free on PS+ so it may be worth a try.
LiquidNarwhal
Banned
I think everyone understands where he's coming from, his opinion is just bizarre and slanted sometimes. In fact scratch that his reviews are completely inconsistent, and on top of that he's one of the media hounds that believes resolution and system power are irrelevant so there's that.
I'm confused why anyone would think the gameplay is going to suddenly become amazingly innovative just because new consoles released. There's no logical reason that would happen. At all.
It's possible that you're correct and that the score wouldn't have been higher if it were on the PS3, but in this case I think people were expecting more than they should have expected (and it wasn't the developer's fault this time) and lowered the score based on it not meeting their prefabricated expectations rather than because of the quality of the game. I could be wrong. I'll know tomorrow when I play it. I'm not going into the game expecting "next gen gameplay" (whatever that's supposed to be). I'm expecting an upgraded Infamous with better graphics. I have a feeling I'll be more than happy with the product. I'm not arguing that it should've been a 90+, but I have a feeling that an 81 is a bit of a low score for the game.
Jim did not like the series until this one.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...11121-inFAMOUS-Second-Son-Review-The-Good-Son
Krisprolls
Banned
You can buy the digital version for $60 on the US PSN store.
Good post !
SwiftDeath
Member
Yeah this is a fairly astute view of the situation. I suppose it's just sometimes hard to determine when reviewers opinions and general audience opinion are inline before a game releases. In this case many early copies broke street date so we have gaf opinions but with that notion you have to concede the type of person who would buy a game like this early will likely be predisposed to enjoy it anyway [prior fans of the infamous series etc.]
Should be interesting in the next couple of days to hear more gaf opinions on it
It's intentional. My last name is O'Connor.
You have no idea how much that soothes my brain
Nathan_Drake
Member
I guess I will have to try and pick it up in store. I preordered with PS4 after E3 on Amazon. My CC info was updated since then due to Target breach and I guess it doesnt update older orders. So I got a card declined email today and now the expected delivery date is Tuesday. Such BS
Neuromancer
Member
I'm not a reviewer but I got the patch on Friday. Cole's Legacy requires a PSN download, and it wouldn't let me input my code (not sure if reviewers got different codes) and the Paper Trail stuff was unavailable after the first mission (couldn't connect to the Paper Trail server). My guess is reviewers got that patch but not the extra content.
I can't imagine it affecting reviews though, it's all bonus stuff.
Just watched Sessler's review. I think he makes a lot of fair points (which might not be everyone's opinion) that seem reasonable.
I don't get the 1 minute-long rant about being asked not to show some stuff however. I really don't see how this can affect his work as a reviewer in any way. He still seems to be in "how can I do my job properly
" mode.
I don't get the 1 minute-long rant about being asked not to show some stuff however. I really don't see how this can affect his work as a reviewer in any way. He still seems to be in "how can I do my job properly
" mode.I obviously wasn't implying that reviews exist to compare Infamous 2 to Infamous Second Son. No, reviews exist to compare video games against each other, just like food critics compare food dishes to each other. The idea is that 10 is the best food you've ever eaten, and 1 is the worst food you've ever eaten. You judge other foods based on those experiences. The same way with video games. If you're not comparing against other products, there's no reason to have a scale. It would be meaningless. That's the point of a scale. To compare objects.
It's a naive criticism. Gameplay is more about innovation than power. Obviously there are power bottlenecks to certain gameplay elements (moving from 2D to 3D, fluid animation, mobiles on screen, etc.), but we've already overcome most of those. Games will change over time, just like they always have. You can't expect games to instantly be amazingly better than last generation in the gameplay department simply because new hardware has released. It's just naive. Sorry, but that's reality.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Just watched Sessler's review. I think he makes a lot of fair points (which might not be everyone's opinion) that seem reasonable.
I don't get the 1 minute-long rant about being asked not to show some stuff however. I really don't see how this can affect his work as a reviewer in any way. He still seems to be in "how can I do my job properly
Aren't reviewers used to this whole embargo thing? I've stumbled across spoilers over the last few days, but I really appreciate that for once, I can go into this game and actually get some surprise out of it.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
New technology enables new gameplay ideas. Every time a new console comes out I come up with dozens of "oh man and they could do this and this and this and this and and and" so it's not too hard to imagine. Not only is it perfectly logical to anticipate new gameplay concepts from technology, it's literally the reason for it existing for some gamers (including me). If a technology can't give me new gameplay concepts in games, I don't buy it.
"Amazingly innovative" is a strawman. Nobody's demanding that. The reviewers just don't think what's available is worth more than the perfectly respectable scores that have been given to Infamous thus far. Maybe it would have scored an 87 or something on the PS3; who gives a shit? Does a variance in X points really matter that much? In isolation, every review posted so far has made perfectly valid points and I can't find any faults with them.
Every game has expectations. Your expectations are just as subjective as someone else's, and meeting those expectations is a gray area at best. Saying your expectations were more reasonable? I don't know man, it sounds like you're just saying they're wrong and you're right. Not really a compelling argument.
People are jumping all over the phrase "next gen gameplay" for some unknown reason, when the implications are actually quite clear: most people want more than just pretty graphics as a reason for a new system to exist. Even smaller elements like destructibility, scope, and dynamism can add a lot to routine gameplay structure.
I definitely don't envy you mods for when these review megathreads come about
There's all sorts of potential considerations in threads like this. Fans of other systems delighting in low scores, fans of the system in question discounting those low scores instead, or fetishizing the high scores. Lastly, there are a very few people in between just looking for information.
For the most part, if the score is above (let's say) 80, these threads tend to just be a celebration by people who had already decided to buy the game or a rebuke of idiot stupid head critics if the score is lower instead.
ezekielpacman
Member
Yeah I did, played it twice for both endings too which probably didn't help with the burnout. The overarching issue I had with both games was the lack of feeling like a superhero - you just die so easily and it seems incongruent with the powers and playground at your disposal - and regrettably this still seems to be an issue.
I'll definitely pick it up down the line though, the story and characters alone have improved enough to see it through.
SwiftDeath
Member
I feel more like a superhero in Second Son than the previous two games. You can still die easy if you make some dumb mistakes but with normal difficulty setting the combat is fairly easy. Expert is a bit challenging in places
GrumpyOutlander
Member
I also don't find resolution or system power relevant to my taste in games, so how is that a negative?
Gamers don't have to agree with every reviewer, and I think it is better that way. I would rather get reviews from many different viewpoints instead of a consensus on every game.
Neuromancer
Member
To be fair to my fellow GAFfers (but not to excuse bad behavior of course), how much discussion can there really be about reviews and review scores when most people don't have the game yet?
It would be an interesting experiment to have a 'one month after' review thread where people who played the game could compare and contrast their experiences with those of professional reviewers.
Brianimaniac
Banned
Couldn't care less about the scores. The part that bothers me is the consensus being that it's just the same game with better graphics. No step forward for the gameplay, structure, etc.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
To the folks in this thread calling for reviewer consistency:
oh Adam.
Looks like a pretty decent game by all accounts, but I'm still waiting for NeoGAF impressions before knowing if I should really dive in. I never really enjoyed the first two inFAMOUS games, so if someone who wasn't a huge fan of the first two buy this one and likes it, my attention will be earned.
Looks like a pretty decent game by all accounts, but I'm still waiting for NeoGAF impressions before knowing if I should really dive in. I never really enjoyed the first two inFAMOUS games, so if someone who wasn't a huge fan of the first two buy this one and likes it, my attention will be earned.
New technology does enable new gameplay ideas. I already agreed with that. It just doesn't happen overnight. There are new gameplay ideas in Infamous Second Son (travelling through smoke for instance and flying into the air to come crashing down to the ground). I'm sure in the next Infamous there will be even more new gameplay ideas. A game doesn't have to revolutionize gameplay, so long as it offers some variety from other games. You might want more from your games, I don't think most people require it. It's nice when it happens, but it's not gamebreaking.
People are demanding that. People want something that screams next gen in the gameplay department, and innovation doesn't happen like that. We'll get it when it happens, but people need to calm down and be a little more patient. Gameplay changes slowly. It always has. New hardware doesn't change that. If it would've scored better on the PS3 then the reviews are hypocritical. There's no argument to be had there. It's the way it is, and I'm aware that expectations will change how people view a product, but it's still hypocritical and has no place in a fair review. I've read quite a few reviews that have stated it doesn't "seem" next-gen apart from graphics as a downfall of Infamous Second Son. That's not a valid point. It's a ridiculous expectation that no developer should be required to meet in order to have their game reviewed fairly. Reviewers compare against products that already exist. Not to imaginative products that don't exist. A scale where 10 is a product that has yet to be created is a useless scale.
Expectations are obviously subjective, but there are extremes. Expecting games to scream next gen already is a bit on the extreme end of the expectation scale. Argue that it's a strawman if you'd like, but there are plenty of people who expect just that (and many of the reviewers as made apparent by their comments). This reminds me of reviewers criticizing Vita games at release because they weren't as compelling as PS3 games instead of comparing them to 3DS game like they should have.
There will be plenty of reasons to buy a new console in the future. The generation just started. Instead of criticizing everything that releases because it's not futuristic enough, maybe the people who want the future right now should just wait to buy a new console until it exists. For the rest of us, we'll enjoy prettier graphics.
Edit: By the way, Infamous Second Son has pretty impressive environment destruction...
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
I think those scores are in line with what i expected.
I loved the first inFamous game, loved all the platforming missions (the junk tower, the prison, the sewer, the bridge...) and the unique comic feel of the game and city itself.
The sequel then cutted almost all platforming missions and focused only on combat, but at least New Marais still had that comic bookey feel going for it.
Now with Second Son, they again focused solely on the combat, but this time they made the city more real, less comic bookey (and less interesting), and in the end they managed to cut a lot of what made the first game and the franchise as a whole unique and memorable.
Still a fun game with powers, but nothing special anymore.
I loved the first inFamous game, loved all the platforming missions (the junk tower, the prison, the sewer, the bridge...) and the unique comic feel of the game and city itself.
The sequel then cutted almost all platforming missions and focused only on combat, but at least New Marais still had that comic bookey feel going for it.
Now with Second Son, they again focused solely on the combat, but this time they made the city more real, less comic bookey (and less interesting), and in the end they managed to cut a lot of what made the first game and the franchise as a whole unique and memorable.
Still a fun game with powers, but nothing special anymore.
For people complaining about reviewer consistency for example Sessler. Yeah sessler is a whiny tool but people need to understand that not everyone is consistent. There are so many games which mechanically may seem to be the same but something (maybe story, characters or some gameplay mechanic) will just make me get into one game and enjoy it immensely while hating the other.
Yes please do that. We all know Halo is an FPS. If you are suggesting that a game cannot be new or innovative unless its creating a new genre than all i can do is laugh.
Yes please do that. We all know Halo is an FPS. If you are suggesting that a game cannot be new or innovative unless its creating a new genre than all i can do is laugh.
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
Apparently... Yeesh.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Here's the thing: all you're describing is the variety of opinions that could exist over these issues, and then you're reframing the issue so that anyone who disagrees with you is an extremist.
If we were to speak theoretically here, and suggest that a reviewer did expect a game that was substantially next-gen, I don't think that's extreme at all. (I have yet to see anyone really demand that yet, but personally speaking.) It's the same thing when Halo 2 was a Windows Vista only port. I want to know if it's worth the barrier to entry beyond how good the game looks. Some reviews take that perspective, some don't; neither side is wrong, they're just looking at it from a different angle.
It honestly just feels like you disagree with people's opinions, and thus their expectations. Which is fine, but people can disagree with you without falling off the sanity train.
That also doesn't strike me as an extreme expectation because Sony had been trying to get gamers to equate the Vita and the PS3 in their minds for months. It's not reviewers' faults that Sony tried to ram the "portable PS3" talking points down everyone's throats, similarly to how the PS4 is hyped as the Next Generation of Gaming. Expectations are set high by marketing, in part.
I don't see why the people who have higher expectations should be quiet. Minority unreasonable demands will necessarily be drowned out by the sheer volume. Any of the reviews who think a game should justify its next-gen moniker can make their case. A marketplace of opinions can only be useful.
That's an ad hominem fallacy. Obviously I wasn't suggesting that everyone else is an extremist. You're exaggerating the matter. You're also avoiding my argument by doing so.
They're not wrong. They're just naive. Instead of viewing increased hardware capabilities as potential for new types of gameplay, they expect that gameplay to exist already. Gameplay innovation is added slowly from one game to the next. Developers borrow concepts from each other and slowly you go from games like Uncharted at the beginning of last generation to games like The Last of Us. Obviously this generation's The Last of Us is a ways off. There's no logical reason we should expect it now. It'll happen, but people need to be patient. Your barrier to entry comment is a red herring fallacy. It has absolutely nothing to do with review scores and the naive belief that gameplay needs to change immediately just because a new generation has begun.
Naive doesn't mean crazy. It simply means people are showing a lack of judgement. Some people are. In 3 years you can expect games to be considerably different than they were when this generation started. Not today. That's just called reasonable expectations.
I'll agree that Sony definitely fed into that hype, but at the end of the day any logical person should've realized that a handheld game should be compared to another handheld game. Not a console game. That's just common sense. Failure to meet expectations led to reviewers enjoying the experience less than they should have. For instance, there's nothing like Gravity Rush on handhelds. It was an amazing game in many ways and likely would have scored much higher than an 80 if it had released on the 3DS. Expectations hurt the score. It's not fair, but it's the way it is. People need to curb their expectations and judge fairly. Especially critics. That's what they get paid to do. If they can't do it, they shouldn't be critics.
I never said anyone should be quiet. You're arguing the subjective argument entirely too much and completely missing the point of my argument. I understand what you want from next gen games. Realistically though, what you want from next gen games won't happen for a while. You're criticizing a new game because it doesn't live up to your expectations instead of comparing to already existing products. There's not logical reason to compare a game to something that doesn't exist yet. You're just ignoring my argument and incorrectly reading between the lines. I'm kind of done with the conversation. Have a good day though.
LiquidNarwhal
Banned
Someone is posting quotes from self reliance in here, I think we've reached the point of no return. Anyhow I just feel that Sess and his views have become bizarre and unapproachable of late, nothing of what he says resonates with me and his reasoning behind the ratings he gives are at best lackluster.
OsirisBlack
Banned
I think an 8 is perfectly acceptable, I do think some are probably upset at the comments "Next Gen Game Play" affecting the rating. When another console exclusive was rated much higher with worse graphics, frame rates, no single player, screen tearing and largely similar game play to another last gen game with a slight twist.
The thing is you cannot take most "Gaming Journalist's to seriously and you also cannot take their "Opinions" to heart. There are several factors that determine what game gets a particular rating. Leaving out all of the bias and conspiracy theories a review is nothing if not subjective. I also tend to trust Gamers reviews much more than the "Professionals" as the main deciding factor to most gamers is how fun a game is and that is all that matters in the end.
Neuromancer
Member
I can pretty safely say you won't like it then. It's the best Infamous game, but it's still an Infamous game.
WordsintheWater
Member
I'm right here man, never was a huge fan of the series thought they were OK games, but it never resonated or struck a cord with me, this one did.
GoofsterStud
Member
I don't think it has a chance. There is a chance that PS4 sells more for march, but I doubt inFAMOUS will come near Titanfall in software sales. That marketing push was huge.
On next generation consoles? Possibly. Very possibly. Overall? No. Titanfall released on the PC and Xbox 360 as well, so NPD won't accurately compare Titanfall on the Xbox One to Infamous on the PS4.
Just watched Sessler's review. I think he makes a lot of fair points (which might not be everyone's opinion) that seem reasonable.
I don't get the 1 minute-long rant about being asked not to show some stuff however. I really don't see how this can affect his work as a reviewer in any way. He still seems to be in "how can I do my job properly
Not to get shitstirring about Titanfall, but how can Titanfall be 5/5 one of the best games ever made? It's like he doesn't know what he's doing.
Yeah, on next gen consoles only I meant. And also by using the great statistical analysis used by Major N. stating that XBoxone was fastest selling in December... It may have a small chance. Though I doubt we'd find out either way.
5/5 doesn't mean best game ever made. When you're on a 5 point scale you can't really differentiate between "literally the best thing ever" and "this is really good".
SwiftDeath
Member
Easy 6/5
IAmRandom31
Banned
In the end a review is simply
One person's detailed opinion of a product after playing it
That is all. The problem comes in when the people reading the review actually don't read the review. Here are some example lines from the supposed " bad " 8/80 reviews.
" Not only is this the best infamous game yet, it is one of the best PS4 games you can get right now "
" Second Son delivers an experience that oozes quality of design and execution "
" Second Son gets me excited to experience every new new power set and makes me happy to shoot thugs into the night "
" Infamous Second Son is the game the Playstation 4 needed. The expectations have been met. At this point it is the best exclusive title you can buy "
" Infamous empowers you with the tools for fun and a gorgeous sandbox environment to unleash them "
" this the most beautiful and impressive game on PS4, and it's also a very nice open world game. The revolution is more on the visuals than in the gameplay, as it is quite classical, but this is still the next-gen game PS4 owners were waiting for. "
Looking at the words inside the reviews. You would almost think the game was going to metacritic in the 90's with all the praise. But nope, these were still low/mid 80's reviews.
Yet some people think 80's is a bad thing.
One person's detailed opinion of a product after playing it
That is all. The problem comes in when the people reading the review actually don't read the review. Here are some example lines from the supposed " bad " 8/80 reviews.
" Not only is this the best infamous game yet, it is one of the best PS4 games you can get right now "
" Second Son delivers an experience that oozes quality of design and execution "
" Second Son gets me excited to experience every new new power set and makes me happy to shoot thugs into the night "
" Infamous Second Son is the game the Playstation 4 needed. The expectations have been met. At this point it is the best exclusive title you can buy "
" Infamous empowers you with the tools for fun and a gorgeous sandbox environment to unleash them "
" this the most beautiful and impressive game on PS4, and it's also a very nice open world game. The revolution is more on the visuals than in the gameplay, as it is quite classical, but this is still the next-gen game PS4 owners were waiting for. "
Looking at the words inside the reviews. You would almost think the game was going to metacritic in the 90's with all the praise. But nope, these were still low/mid 80's reviews.
Yet some people think 80's is a bad thing.
Major B.S.
Neo Member
Hmm.... Maybe somebody already asked this but I wonder how much or if any of the upcoming free DLC content was played by reviewers?
I wonder if more publishers will start this practice of throwing curveballs out into the wild to coincide with the release of their games. It doesn't look like this new content has been reviewed. Even if the game has mediocre reviews, people's thoughts might shift to the "It comes with a free frogurt!" mentality.
Interesting...
I wonder if more publishers will start this practice of throwing curveballs out into the wild to coincide with the release of their games. It doesn't look like this new content has been reviewed. Even if the game has mediocre reviews, people's thoughts might shift to the "It comes with a free frogurt!" mentality.
Interesting...
Sure you can. 5/5 stars vs. 4.5/5 stars = 10/10 vs. 9/10.
It's not inconceivable Titanfall would score higher with some people. I haven't played either game but Titanfall looks a lot more fun from a gameplay standpoint, while Infamous excels at other things, like realistic-looking asphalt, and magic sparkles.
Different genres, though, so it's like they're comparing apples and oranges.
freefornow
Member
Well, sounds like the game reviewed very well. Even lowest score on the spectrum was not even that low!
Well done Sucker Punch.
Well done Sucker Punch.
Omnistalgic
Member
Great reviews...don't let reviewers justify ur purchases, plenty of people on gaf has reviewed the game, it's awesome! But it doesn't break enough new ground to wow People that review games for a living. For gamers this is why you bought a ps4! It is absolutely a showpiece of a game! And had a great story worth telling...