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True Detective - McConaughey/Harrelson crime series - S2 starts June 21st

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The best thing about the show is how even though it might not be clear anymore where exactly it's going towards the end, you can tell there's very deliberate and careful plotting which indicates it knows that it's doing and there will be an eventual destination and final message.

I really liked a number of things about this week's episode. The way the show is direction pretty much tells the audience that Cohle is not the killer imo. By showing that they are still willing to lie and cover each other in the interviews, and then showing the audience an absolute truth in the form of the flashbacks, indicates that Cohle definitely wasn't setting stuff up. Instead, his problem clearly seems to be obsession. He was so obsessed with solving the case in the past that he starts tripping balls when confronted with loose evidence that he might not have solved it. His present self sees things in a much bleaker view, and I think "nothing is ever solved" is just another form of him crying out for help.

The focus on Marty's family life is pretty interesting too. There definitely seems to be a commentary about men and how they treat women going on. The way he treated his mistress, the way he treated his wife, and now the way he treats his daughter are all signs of a man who wants to be in control so much he can't see beyond his role as a strong patriarch in all his relationships.

In the end, I don't think it really matters whether Cohle is chasing a real conspiracy here or not. He might be, he might not be. But simply watching things play out and how elegant the depiction of these two men and their lives are is far more interesting than watching a standard cult murder procedural unfold.
 
FuriousBearMan said:
Saw this on Reddit.

Framed?

CoOVKZ5.png
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can see it being interpreted this way. It fits with what the current 'narrative' is for the events in 2012.


Anyway, I love the ending song for the episode. Soooo good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srU5osUsn6I
 
Wow. That was a fantastic episode. It takes a lot of skill to cover 7 years in one episode, and this was done incredibly well. I wish we'd get a look at Rust and his girlfriend just because I want to see what this guy is even like being with a woman. No way Rust is the killer. He's just been investigating again since 2002. That scene back at the school to close the episode was fantastic. This is my favorite episode so far.

Did how the Ledoux sequence played out remind anyone else of Se7en?
 
Oh fuck, that was good. The case just became even creepier. I love this show.

LaDoux was appropriately creepy and cracked. The whole black stars thing. Man. And there being a conspiracy. And Cohle's probably been undercover and investigating for a decade. Some dedication.

FuriousBearMan said:
Saw this on Reddit.

Framed?

CoOVKZ5.png
Click to expand...

Such a beautiful shot.
 
I feel like I instantly need to re-watch this episode. So much to absorb, and I never go back over shows.
 
Theory:

When you add
Marty's daughter drawing the things she was drawing, Marty killing the only living cultist that could have led them to others, and him being assigned the case in the first place, you start to wonder if Marty isn't involved somehow. We know he's an alcoholic and a cheater. What is it he does now? Private security? Seems like it would pay more, and we know a few high ranking people that would be able to hook that job up if he kept certain things quiet. He's sticking to the story that Rust and him rehearsed and gave all those years ago, but that could be more about covering his ass than Rusts.

Just a thought. Probably wrong.
 
Marty is far too emotional and rash a person to be part of any "conspiracy" I think. He's been shown to wear his heart on his sleeve. Shooting Ledoux was a really stupid move, but something we would expect from him after seeing what the guy did to other children. He might not be a particularly good parent, but it's been shown that he does feel emotion about seeing children in bad positions - like when he told the underaged hooker to quit and do something else.
 
and if Marty was in on the conspiracy, Woody totally acted off key when he came out of the house with those dead kids with that look on his face. That was the face of someone who was genuinely horrified and furious, not someone acting.
 
The killer is the audience. In the end serial killers on TV shows are just unimportant individuals driven insane for the sake of "plot" to deliver the murders which engage an audience obsessed with seeing strange crimes get solved.

Lol.
 
heh it's funny because apparently the show actually is also a critique of tv audiences (edit: you probably know this though, which is why you made the joke! I'm slow!)
 
Whoa, fantastic episode. There has been a lot of quality TV lately, but this episode makes True Detective the best new show I have seen in YEARS. I can't wait for next week!!
 
duckroll said:
The best thing about the show is how even though it might not be clear anymore where exactly it's going towards the end, you can tell there's very deliberate and careful plotting which indicates it knows that it's doing and there will be an eventual destination and final message.

I really liked a number of things about this week's episode. The way the show is direction pretty much tells the audience that Cohle is not the killer imo. By showing that they are still willing to lie and cover each other in the interviews, and then showing the audience an absolute truth in the form of the flashbacks, indicates that Cohle definitely wasn't setting stuff up. Instead, his problem clearly seems to be obsession. He was so obsessed with solving the case in the past that he starts tripping balls when confronted with loose evidence that he might not have solved it. His present self sees things in a much bleaker view, and I think "nothing is ever solved" is just another form of him crying out for help.

The focus on Marty's family life is pretty interesting too. There definitely seems to be a commentary about men and how they treat women going on. The way he treated his mistress, the way he treated his wife, and now the way he treats his daughter are all signs of a man who wants to be in control so much he can't see beyond his role as a strong patriarch in all his relationships.

In the end, I don't think it really matters whether Cohle is chasing a real conspiracy here or not. He might be, he might not be. But simply watching things play out and how elegant the depiction of these two men and their lives are is far more interesting than watching a standard cult murder procedural unfold.
Click to expand...

I actually think this show is more a comment on manhood in general than specifically how they treat women. To me it looks at how they act as husbands, fathers, protectors, and friends. The scene when Marty asks Rust "Do you wonder ever if you're a bad man?" and Rust replies, "The world needs bad men. We keep the other bad men from the door." Seems in some ways to be the very core of the show. Rust and Marty are both Bad Men who've done Bad things..... But who better to protect innocent people from the bad things out there that they can't see?..... Monster That good people like the Modern day cops can't probably even fathom.
 
Good episode. I think I am warming up on the idea of the force/dept being a part of this conspiracy cult nonsense. Towards the end of the episode when
the guy gives Rust those pictures Rust tells him "How did you keep her out of the papers? Maybe you have some friends in high places."
I think Rust is being framed. Those two investigators were acting very funny/suspicious with Rust near the end.

As for Rust being the killer it makes no sense. Unless Marty, Rust and their Major are all in on it. Why would Rust be eager to solve the case in the first place if he is the killer? Weren't they given a deadline sometime near episode 2 or 3 only having like a week to solve the case until they were taken off of it? Rust could of easily not bothered with it. If he is a part of this cult than what would be the point of what he has been doing since episode 1? and If he became a part of this cult after 2002 than he would still not be bigger than the yellow king himself because Rust wouldn't have been responsible for the murders prior to 2002 but only for the ones after. Either way I don't think he is the yellow king.
 
LordCanti said:
Theory:

When you add
Marty's daughter drawing the things she was drawing, Marty killing the only living cultist that could have led them to others, and him being assigned the case in the first place, you start to wonder if Marty isn't involved somehow. We know he's an alcoholic and a cheater. What is it he does now? Private security? Seems like it would pay more, and we know a few high ranking people that would be able to hook that job up if he kept certain things quiet. He's sticking to the story that Rust and him rehearsed and gave all those years ago, but that could be more about covering his ass than Rusts.

Just a thought. Probably wrong.
Click to expand...

Not sure about that. Granted, this episode made it pretty clear that we can't trust the narrative that they're selling the new cops, and it could be that we can't trust any of the flashbacks either. With that being said, we've seen Marty go out and collect evidence/leads on his own when he goes to the rave and gets the name of the biker gang out of the dude. If Marty were somehow in on it, I think he wouldn't have needed to do that. Plus, in the first episode when Marty gets home, he drinks like a man who'd just had a shitty day at work and hates the world.
 
Zeus Molecules said:
I actually think this show is more a comment on manhood in general than specifically how they treat women. To me it looks at how they act as husbands, fathers, protectors, and friends. The scene when Marty asks Rust "Do you wonder ever if you're a bad man?" and Rust replies, "The world needs bad men. We keep the other bad men from the door." Seems in some ways to be the very core of the show. Rust and Marty are both Bad Men who've done Bad things..... But who better to protect innocent people from the bad things out there that they can't see?..... Monster That good people like the Modern day cops can't probably even fathom.
Click to expand...

Yeah the show is definitely very much about masculinity, but I think that on its own is less interesting if it's just men being men. There's a lot of that out there, especially within the crime genre. The negative depiction of how masculinity often results in the poor treatment of women makes it a more interesting social commentary though.
 
TTG said:
If you're talking about Rust's fatalism and all that abstract stuff about forever being trapped in plates and spheres, that did come off as intentional on his part. Not that Rust doesn't believe any of it, but he knows how his musings sound, he just keeps leading them on to see the file. Doing it in a way that doesn't disclose his own "investigation". Now, that doesn't dismiss the aforementioned eye rolling, but at least they're self aware about it? I don't know.
Click to expand...
That's the most glaring example, yes. There are lots of little things like this that the show does. Sometimes it works and sometimes it just rubs me the wrong way. Things have been working pretty well for them overall though, so in the big picture there's really not too much to complain about.
 
You guys realize Cohle mentioning the flat circle was the same thing Ledoux said to him before he died? And Cohle dismissed what he said, "What is that Nietzsche?". Also Ledoux had an eight pointed star on right forearm. Those eight pointed stars tie in perfectly with the whole time and space talk Cohle gave as well. The cops are getting insight into the killers and obviously attributing it to Cohle lol.

-edit-- also the yellow king is a tie in to a sun god as the cult is most definitely a sun worshiping cult.
 
Amir0x said:
But what of the two kids they found at the house, one apparently dead already a day old, and the other catatonic? I assume they were molested, but even if not... where did they fit into the equation? They just happened to stumble onto an unrelated crime, or were these victims related to the cult somehow?
Click to expand...

Pollux said:
I think that at this point it's pretty obvious that there is a cult or some organization of some kind. As to it's purpose? Couldn't even begin to guess.

I think the "cult" kidnaps people and sacrifices them to their "god" under the leadership of a "priest" the "yellow king". I don't think it has anything specificly to do with molesting kids, and part of the problem is we've only seen two victims, both adult females. However, when Rust asks what happened to some kid in episode 1 or 2, the detectives show him the picture of the modern day murder - this seems to suggest that the cult members do in fact groom the victims from a young age.
Click to expand...

Pollux said:
I got the same impression. I also have a feeling that there's more to what caused Audrey to play with the toys like that than we are let in on. I would be willing to bet that she was molested.
Click to expand...

or she's seen something, maybe not her, but she saw something she didnt comprehend as a child, but it's coming out later in life. im buying into this county wide cult or system that is being used to create cattle for sacrifice and use by this organization or collective of very powerful people and then it flows into this idea...

potam said:
I just had an idea, and I don't know how I'd feel about it if it were true:

So what if Rust has been working undercover the entire time and was sent in because they think the LA state police are corrupt, and then after 2002 he went deep undercover.
Click to expand...

I'd feel extremely positive about this idea. I don't think this is the true ending or shock of the show, but if it happened I'd dig it. it's also a little too easy, but I dig it.

-rust isn't the yellow king
-he is being framed
-marty is aware of something in 2012, more than he is lettting on
-there is a collection of high powered people with abilities to do what they need to do
-the interviewing detectives are just clueless, no secret plans or corroboration, but they are being led down the path to finger rust for the murders by those higher powers
-rust is a vigilante and we'll see that in his storage locker

senas8 said:
No. The killer has not been on film yet.
Click to expand...

I full heartedly believe this.
 
Great episode as usual. dat last shot

I'm not seeing Rust as the Yellow King. He's definitely still obsessed with this case and is doing it on his own time.

If he is the Yellow King I'm gonna be so bummed. I like Rust too much. =/
 
bunbun777 said:
You guys realize Cohle mentioning the flat circle was the same thing Ledoux said to him before he died? And Cohle dismissed what he said, "What is that Nietzsche?". Also Ledoux had an eight pointed star on right forearm. Those eight pointed stars tie in perfectly with the whole time and space talk Cohle gave as well. The cops are getting insight into the killers and obviously attributing it to Cohle lol.

-edit-- also the yellow king is a tie in to a sun god as the cult is most definitely a sun worshiping cult.
Click to expand...

Did not realize Ledoux mentioned the flat circle and was talking about the same thing that Rust was, pretty much confirms Rust became obsessed with The Yellow King and that's what he's been focused on all this time.

Also I think this may have been my favorite episode. It started with 15 mins of tension, then the plot moved at a very fast pace and I was interested in every piece of new information and every line that came out of the characters mouths. This will be the most painful week to wait so far. It's such a masterfully dense and intriguing show, not to mention the pitch perfect acting by the leads.

Also loved Rust's reaction to Martin killing Ledoux; "Fuck him, glad to see you finally commit to something."
 
This show is continually wrinkling my brain like no other show. It's really beautiful and grotesque at the same time.

That last shot was really good. I really want a wallpaper of that shot.
 
Rewatched episode 1... I don't know if this has been mentioned back then, but when Marty's questioned about his falling out with Rust and he states that he hasn't talked to him for 10 years, the screen cuts to Gilbough & Papania exchanging a quick look, possibly implying that they know more, that he's lying?
After last night's episode I don't trust a single word they've been telling the two detectives investigating the new case and in that E1 scene Marty strikes me as particularily untrustworthy, he's putting on a bit of a show there, IMO.

Got me thinking that maybe Rust & Marty only faked the end of their partnership to help Rust with whatever he's been doing since '02 and/or protect Marty's kids from possible repercussions?
 
Man that was great.
Really good restart to the season, kicking off the second half perfectly.


Also can't wait for the finale and to go back to the opening credits and feel like the entire story is laid out in them.
 
I just got a HBO membership. Should i watch this series?
How does it rank against series like Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad?

Impressions seem good on GAF.
 
I watched about 20 minutes of this show and turned it off because I thought it was boring and frankly rubbish. Maybe I didn't give it a fair shot? People seem to really like it.
 
Always-honest said:
I just got a HBO membership. Should i watch this series?
How does it rank against series like Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad?

Impressions seem good on GAF.
Click to expand...

In short, you have been missing the best show television has to offer currently.

Does it have to rank? Or be compared to those shows? This show exists because the shows you mentioned began, and matured the concept of the episodic serial - long arcs that focused on character development every step of the way. The long view. True Detectives is another step in that same direction. Best such drama on television right now? Probably. But it's foundation is the other shows you mention. You may not like it as much as those other shows, but frankly I think it's better - because I'm biased in believing that new concepts, well executed, build on past successes, not just mirror them. And this show has taken lessons from the wire, the shield, sopranos, (and currently every showrunner is looking at breaking bad as the standard to meet or beat - I guarantee it) and built their new, complex narrative around the framework forged on the basis of those prior designs.
 
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