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Xbox is Building the Gaming Platform for the Next 20 Years

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
More like desperate to increase their userbase. Spending 10 times as much as anyone else and still failing. They want to win and make money. They aren't in the business to give you a good value.

All console hardware (except Nintendo) sold at a loss for almost the entirety of a consoles lifetime. Selling hardware isn't what makes them the most money, selling software, or getting people hooked on recurring monthly fees, is what does that.

Regardless, game pass subs will get all the games from Bethesda, and soon from Activision Blizzard on game pass and there's no current signs of indications that they are even thinking about increasing the sub price any time soon.

Their goal may be to get more people subscribed to their service, and offering the great value and incentive *is* what helps them get to it. Which ends up being incredibly beneficial for people in the eco system.
 

12Dannu123

Member
Show me a reality currently where that is the case?

Thats pie in the sky. Thats the goal, but not even netflix has gone beyond 200+ million and it's dropped a lot over the course of the past 12 months. You have to have content people want. And unless every single game they release hits 100% with critics and gamers your never going to achieve those goals. they might get over the span of 10 years maybe they get 100 Million gamepass subs. But even that is reaching.

This year seriously is a down year. If it was so great you would see more numbers coming from Xbox.

I never said that it is what's currently the case. I said as a hypothetical scenario. But the fact that you refuse to be direct with the question shows it all.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
There's a weird fascination with 'wins' and 'losses' on this forum. Who cares when they're focusing on giving people in their eco system (game pass) incredible value for money and content. They're hungry to increase user base for the service and it doesn't matter to them if it comes from console, PC, mobile and now even TV apps.
Yup.

When it comes to buying stuff, all that matters to people is usually a good product for the money spent. Nobody buys stuff based on who has the biggest market share. If so, every one of them should be buying Oreo cookies and base model Honda Civics because they are probably the biggest sellers. You can have them. LOL
 
Well this thread devolved into arm chair analyst arguing over wins an losses.

But I like that the ecosystem is growing. If they can deliver 3 hardcore games a year for the core fans I’m happy. Now bring it to LG cowards 😭
 
King alone makes enough revenue a year that it can cover Bethesdas purchase in 2~ years, MS bought assets that will earn their price in a few years and anything after that is pure gravy.
All three (A, B, K) are super profitable. It really helps that ABK is ultimately a GaaS company.
 
Every good company is trying to increase their userbase. That's why Sony is pivoting to GaaS and PC.

big mistake in the long run imo. they are slowly abandoning their core audience and getting greedy. will bite them in the ass later. how they going from barely any multiplayer games to 12 service games in just the next few years? greed.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
All three (A, B, K) are super profitable. It really helps that ABK is ultimately a GaaS company.

Yeah, but regardless of how much revenues these companies make, to me as a gamer what matters most is what the console owner is giving me. And Game Pass has been an incredible value for money for both new and legacy games accessible to me on my console, PC and even phone when needed.

That seems to align well with MS's prospective vision for where they see gaming in the next 20 years I suppose.
 
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Papacheeks

Banned
Every good company is trying to increase their userbase. That's why Sony is pivoting to GaaS and PC.

There's a difference of literally spending 80-100 Billion in a short amount of time. To slowly expanding teams, partnerships with studios to build out your portfolio that is weak in a specific area. Sony hasn't pivoted to not making games like Spiderman 2, Wolverine, Niel's new game, God of war, Ect. To think those go away or that Sony wont fund support those type of titles is really reaching. It's just now they will have more reoccurring revenue in between those giant releases to help fund the very expensive single player games by using GAAS multiplayer titles to get more revenue from creativity. Instead of just buying up publishers to put games on a giant service.


Sony is expanding and growing out of their shell from solely relying on one type of portfolio, XBox had nowhere else to go but this for the brand which has been talked about at Nausiasm. No one cared for their games last gen, and they were outsold almost double by their competitor. When you have talks on the board of getting rid of the division entirely then I think your'e at a tipping point.


Gamepass was Phil's hail mary to sell to Nadella and other board members as it encompassed enterprise growth while growing gaming.
 
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big mistake in the long run imo. they are slowly abandoning their core audience and getting greedy. will bite them in the ass later. how they going from barely any multiplayer games to 12 service games in just the next few years? greed.
How else to grow though? If they stick to their guns they will always inevitably hit the ~100m MAU limit. They have to branch out if they want to grow.
 

Stuart360

Member
big mistake in the long run imo. they are slowly abandoning their core audience and getting greedy. will bite them in the ass later. how they going from barely any multiplayer games to 12 service games in just the next few years? greed.
But if thats where the major money is then why wouldnt they.
It was either last year, or the year before, but 70% of all gaming revenue was MTX, 70%!. What do GAAS and MP games have in abundance?, MTX.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Yup.

When it comes to buying stuff, all that matters to people is usually a good product for the money spent. Nobody buys stuff based on who has the biggest market share. If so, every one of them should be buying Oreo cookies and base model Honda Civics because they are probably the biggest sellers. You can have them. LOL
Oreos and civics are great though. Things are popular for a reason.
 

12Dannu123

Member
big mistake in the long run imo. they are slowly abandoning their core audience and getting greedy. will bite them in the ass later. how they going from barely any multiplayer games to 12 service games in just the next few years? greed.

Game development (Especially single-player games like Sony's) are skyrocketing in cost. It makes perfect sense for Sony to invest more GaaS and PC. Single Player games development is not sustainable for a userbase of 100-200M traditional consoles that hasn't growth in 20+ years.
There's a difference of literally spending 80-100 Billion in a short amount of time. To slowly expanding teams, partnerships with studios to build out your portfolio that is weak in a specific area. Sony hasn't picoted to not making games like Spiderman 2, Wolverine, Niel's new game, God of war, Ect. To think those go away or that Sony wont fund support those type of titles is really reaching. It's just now they will have more reoccurring revenue in between those giant releases to help fund the very expensive single player games by using GAAS multiplayer titles to get more revenue from creativity. Instead of just buying up publishers to put games on a giant service.


Sony is expanding and growing out of their shell from solely relying on one type of portfolio, XBox had nowhere else to go but this for the brand which has been talked about at Nausiasm. No one cared for their games last gen, and they were outsold almost double by their competitor. When you have talks on the board of getting rid of the division entirely then I think your'e at a tipping point.


Gamepass was Phil's hail mary to sell to Nadella and other board members as it encompassed enterprise growth while growing gaming.

This is simply semantics. The end result is the same. If Sony had the financial power of MS, they would be buying publishers in a heartbeat. But alas they don't.
 
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spons

Gold Member
180m - 200m console install base that is there every generation. not the non existant "2b gamers" we keep hearing about from these suits.
I doubt 200 million is the limit for the reach of whatever you imply to be 'core gaming'. I realize Microsoft wants in on that sweet Android/iOS gaming cash, but honestly they're doing a good job. This is not future talk, you can stream with touch controls right now on mobile. Make it a consumption model that's like movies and TV, something that's enjoyed by billions of people. It's both a long term strategy as well as something that's already available, making the target of "3 billion people" more realistic if you can transform their consumption model to include games.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
big mistake in the long run imo. they are slowly abandoning their core audience and getting greedy. will bite them in the ass later. how they going from barely any multiplayer games to 12 service games in just the next few years? greed.
Yup. To be fair it was 12 by 2026. No company shotguns that many new GAAS games in such a short time. Not even Activision does and they got annual COD that would count for 4 games alone by 2026.

But from what Jim or Herman said in an article, all they are looking for is one or two big hits and that's enough to float the boat. So what they are doing is replicating what they did during PS3. Shotgun a ton of shooters and hope one sticks. None of them did. Last shooter they made was KZ Shadowfall in 2013. What Sony is gunning for is a Fortnite or Apex kind of smash hit, not caring if the others fail. Get that one stable revenue source which other companies brag about with monthly revenue count.

That's a lot of people and resources to send to the front lines expecting only a few to return. It's not like Sony makes 12 SP narratives and hopes only a few do well. They expect all of them to do well.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
I never said that it is what's currently the case. I said as a hypothetical scenario. But the fact that you refuse to be direct with the question shows it all.

Shows what?

you are the one literally saying 500m thats ridiculous. If that was not your intention to be ridiculous then what was your point? The jest of it is Microsoft has spent more by a large margin this gen so far for little gain. If your generating revenue, but not making anything or hardly, then something is wrong. It's one thing during the build up phase, where your just going to lose money. Which is every console launch.

But Gamepass has been around since 2017-2018. And here we are, they are generating revenue, but spending literally the equivalent of 3-4 Fiscal Year Acquisitions budgets. Thats insane. And its for two reasons. 1 Their studios are still not ready to where sony is and has been for generations, so they need content on the service. 2. Acti/Blizzard literally with cod and WOW prints money. They will literally make it up in a couple years time.

But make no mistake the thing that no one wants to admit, is Microsoft is trying to buy their market share, and their brand recognition, Sony and Nintendo built their off of their games alone.
 

Stuart360

Member
Shows what?

you are the one literally saying 500m thats ridiculous. If that was not your intention to be ridiculous then what was your point? The jest of it is Microsoft has spent more by a large margin this gen so far for little gain. If your generating revenue, but not making anything or hardly, then something is wrong. It's one thing during the build up phase, where your just going to lose money. Which is every console launch.

But Gamepass has been around since 2017-2018. And here we are, they are generating revenue, but spending literally the equivalent of 3-4 Fiscal Year Acquisitions budgets. Thats insane. And its for two reasons. 1 Their studios are still not ready to where sony is and has been for generations, so they need content on the service. 2. Acti/Blizzard literally with cod and WOW prints money. They will literally make it up in a couple years time.

But make no mistake the thing that no one wants to admit, is Microsoft is trying to buy their market share, and their brand recognition, Sony and Nintendo built their off of their games alone.
You dont know how much they are making off MTX with Gamepas though. I mean EA couldnt wait to get EAPlay onto Gamepass. And we know for a fact that gamers are spenidng ridiculous sums on MTX for games they buy, how much are they spending when they are not having to lay out $60 for each game?, it boggles the mind actually.

But of course Microsoft dont give numbers so they are 100% on the verge of banckruptcy etc.
 
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Papacheeks

Banned
You dont know how much they are making off MTX with Gamepas though. I mean EA couldnt wait to get EAPlay onto Gamepass. And we know for a fact that gamers are spenidng ridiculous sums on MTX for games they buy, how much are they spending when they are not having to lay out $60 for each game?, it boggles the mind actually.

But of course Microsoft dont give numbers so they are 100% on the verge of backruptcy etc.

If Microsoft was making so much in profit we would know about it period.
 

Stuart360

Member
If Microsoft was making so much in profit we would know about it period.
Its such an easy thing to say when they dont give out numbers isnt it. Well keep thinking that, then keep your puzzled head scratching face as they continue to release console after console, and spend huge sums on publishers and games.
Because we know mega companies keep doing that for 20+ years on something that isnt working for them.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
You dont know how much they are making off MTX with Gamepas though. I mean EA couldnt wait to get EAPlay onto Gamepass. And we know for a fact that gamers are spenidng ridiculous sums on MTX for games they buy, how much are they spending when they are not having to lay out $60 for each game?, it boggles the mind actually.

But of course Microsoft dont give numbers so they are 100% on the verge of backruptcy etc.
Exactly.

Every business works different.

My company has sold certain product lines that make no money for 10+ years. Some years it might squeak out some profit. Some years it loses money! And these are big brands.

The reason why they are kept is because the holistic package of products sold to the retailer makes us good money as a whole. Sometimes you got to trade off with them and give them product they make money on (but our financials stink), but they agree to carry our high margin product where we make shitloads of money on.

You yank that key brand or two off the table, and they'll also yank other stuff with it.

It's like selling cars. The big money isn't selling the car. But you need the car in the first place to get the ball rolling. The big money is options, warranty packages, window tinting, servicing and repairs.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Its such an easy thing to say when they dont give out numbers isnt it. Well keep thinking that, then keep your puzzled head scratching face as they continue to release console after console, and spend huge sums on publishers and games.
Because we know mega companies keep doing that for 20+ years on something that isnt working for them.
They were nearly out of the game at one point were they not? I'd have to dig it up but you really think if the series generation were to fail as badly as the previous they'd still be in the game? They'll abandon it as soon as the money goes away just like any smart business.
 
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Hezekiah

Banned
Yep, that's how its done. Meanwhile Sony keeps PS Now (aka NATO game streaming) I'll get Ultimate to play Gears 2 and 3 via streaming until a PC port is available.
$15 a month to play ancient games with lots of lag
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
If Microsoft was making so much in profit we would know about it period.
Not true. Not all companies report all data.

Go find Apple's earnings reports and see if you can find out much profit their iPhone, Macs or watch segments make.

Berkshire Hathaway owns (or majority owns) like 50+ companies. Try to find detailed profit data on all their companies and product lines.
 
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OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Yep, that's how its done. Meanwhile Sony keeps PS Now (aka NATO game streaming) I'll get Ultimate to play Gears 2 and 3 via streaming until a PC port is available.
Or you could just play the natively on a console? But sure play them in the worst way possible.
 

Stuart360

Member
They were nearly out of the game at one point were they not? I'd have to dig it up but you really think I'd the series generation were to fail as badly as the previous they'd still be in the game? They'll abandon it as soon as the money goes away just like any smart business.
I dont know if they were officially, thats what certain people like to say on forums like this. But i dont think anything official was sever said about that. Could you blame them though, Xbox reputation was in tatters after the XB1 fiasco, they still kept the business in the end though, and are moving full force ahead this gen.
 

Clear

Gold Member
Xbox gaming for another 20 years, sweet. So much for naysayers way back claiming MS was quitting gaming.

Nah. What we were saying was MS is getting out of the console business. And we were right fundamentally.

Its been very obvious since 2013 that their ambitions are way bigger than simply "winning" a console generation. A lot of people were dismissive of the original Xbox One's TVTVTV approach as some sort of weird brain-fart, when what it actually represented was their first serious shot at the real, much bigger prize of creating a kind of universal media portal.

Gamepass/Xcloud is their v2.0. The difference being that this time rather than trying to create a singular device through which all media is consumed, they are attempting to create a universal service portal in the cloud that can be deployed across ubiquitous devices.

As before, games are used as the tip of the spear, but no doubt long-term they'll be looking to add more general media services. Its way less pressing though because the subscription model is already the same as that employed by general media streamers like Netflix or Prime. All they need to do is add new elements to the package offer and set pricing appropriately.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Nah. What we were saying was MS is getting out of the console business. And we were right fundamentally.

Its been very obvious since 2013 that their ambitions are way bigger than simply "winning" a console generation. A lot of people were dismissive of the original Xbox One's TVTVTV approach as some sort of weird brain-fart, when what it actually represented was their first serious shot at the real, much bigger prize of creating a kind of universal media portal.

Gamepass/Xcloud is their v2.0. The difference being that this time rather than trying to create a singular device through which all media is consumed, they are attempting to create a universal service portal in the cloud that can be deployed across ubiquitous devices.

As before, games are used as the tip of the spear, but no doubt long-term they'll be looking to add more general media services. Its way less pressing though because the subscription model is already the same as that employed by general media streamers like Netflix or Prime. All they need to do is add new elements to the package offer and set pricing appropriately.
MS still making consoles. In fact they even expanded to two this generation, low end S and high end X.
 
Not true. Not all companies report all data.

Go find Apple's earnings reports and see if you can find out much profit their iPhone, Macs or watch segments make.

Berkshire Hathaway owns (or majority owns) like 50+ companies. Try to find detailed profit data on all their companies and product lines.
People don't realize that Japanese companies with their transparency are the exception, not the rule. It's probably cultural, like feeling big responsibility towards the shareholders.
 

Metnut

Member
As a Microsoft shareholder, I’d like them to disclose there net operating income for the gaming segment. Weird how the other companies report it but Microsoft only reports revenue.
 

Clear

Gold Member
MS still making consoles. In fact they even expanded to two this generation, low end S and high end X.

With a third, stick-type SKU on the way!

The point is that this type of offer is likely a transitional consideration with a life-span predicated on what percentage of revenue its yielding per year. Its A means of accessing the service, not THE means. Very different strategically speaking.
 

triphero

Banned
Nah. What we were saying was MS is getting out of the console business. And we were right fundamentally.

Its been very obvious since 2013 that their ambitions are way bigger than simply "winning" a console generation. A lot of people were dismissive of the original Xbox One's TVTVTV approach as some sort of weird brain-fart, when what it actually represented was their first serious shot at the real, much bigger prize of creating a kind of universal media portal.

Gamepass/Xcloud is their v2.0. The difference being that this time rather than trying to create a singular device through which all media is consumed, they are attempting to create a universal service portal in the cloud that can be deployed across ubiquitous devices.

As before, games are used as the tip of the spear, but no doubt long-term they'll be looking to add more general media services. Its way less pressing though because the subscription model is already the same as that employed by general media streamers like Netflix or Prime. All they need to do is add new elements to the package offer and set pricing appropriately.

This old story. LOL no.

Xbox Series X and S is selling more than ever and is still their primary platform for delivering games. Just because they are adding cloud gaming doesnt mean at all they are getting out of console gaming.

This gen proves more than ever, that is kinda a ridiculous notion. And the media portal thing. Ppl used 360 to stream Netflix and play dvds. Why on Earth is Xcloud going to be a media portal now? You can stream everthing else through native apps. That was why Xbox One failed, they thought making a killer media player was what they needed to do, and they were wrong.

Also, we have game streaming. And there is not much evidence ppl are demanding it. I dont see the proof that its going to take over at all.

Also, personally, I find Xboxs big games so fucking boring. Like Xbox fans keep going on about Flight Sim and Forza. I cannot think of two more boring ass games.
 
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Shmunter

Member
This old story. LOL no.

Xbox Series X and S is selling more than ever and is still their primary platform for delivering games. Just because they are adding cloud gaming doesnt mean at all they are getting out of console gaming.

This gen proves more than ever, that is kinda a ridiculous notion. And the media portal thing. Ppl used 360 to stream Netflix and play dvds. Why on Earth is Xcloud going to be a media portal now? You can stream everthing else through native apps. That was why Xbox One failed, they thought making a killer media player was what they needed to do, and they were wrong.

Also, we have game streaming. And there is not much evidence ppl are demanding it. I dont see the proof that its going to take over at all.

Also, personally, I find Xboxs big games so fucking boring. Like Xbox fans keep going on about Flight Sim and Forza. I cannot think of two more boring ass games.
By releasing Series S, MS showed their hand it’s all about subscriptions and not advancing the sector with tech as the canvas for creatives. Not something to champion for those that care about ‘games’ moving forward as opposed to sales models.

Streaming is also the reason VR is abandoned by MS, it’s mutually exclusive with streaming latency and low powered hardware.
 
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Clear

Gold Member
This old story. LOL no.

Xbox Series X and S is selling more than ever and is still their primary platform for delivering games. Just because they are adding cloud gaming doesnt mean at all they are getting out of console gaming.

This gen proves more than ever, that is kinda a ridiculous notion. And the media portal thing. Ppl used 360 to stream Netflix and play dvds. Why on Earth is Xcloud going to be a media portal now? You can stream everthing else through native apps. That was why Xbox One failed, they thought making a killer media player was what they needed to do, and they were wrong.

Also, we have game streaming. And there is not much evidence ppl are demanding it. I dont see the proof that its going to take over at all.

Also, personally, I find Xboxs big games so fucking boring. Like Xbox fans keep going on about Flight Sim and Forza. I cannot think of two more boring ass games.

Console R+D and manufacture is very expensive and ultimately generates little to no direct profit.

They own the worlds most ubiquitous computer OS, and have invested massively in cloud infrastructure, that's a platform in the same sense that a console is without all the aforementioned overhead. The logic is inescapable.
 
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Hezekiah

Banned
180m - 200m console install base that is there every generation. not the non existant "2b gamers" we keep hearing about from these suits.
No doubt this dream that gaming companies have of getting 'every day people' to pay $10 - $15 a month to play AAA games on their phone/tablet/TV/fridge simply isn't happening.

Active entertainment like gaming is nothing like the same as passive forms of entertainment like music (Spotify), or TV/film (Netflix).
 

triphero

Banned
By releasing Series S, MS showed their hand it’s all about subscriptions and not advancing the sector with tech as the canvas for creatives. Not something to champion for those that care about ‘games’ moving forward as opposed to sales models.

Streaming is also the the reason VR is abandoned by MS, it’s mutually exclusive with streaming latency and low powered hardware.

Subs that people use to play games on Consoles. Consoles. Xbox is selling better than ever and has ushered in a comback for MS, along with subs on those consoles. But lets not forget, ppl are playing them on consoles. Its nuanced. I dont know why ppl now think MS is going to abandon consoles. Theres zero evidence consoles are going anywhere. The evidence points to the opposite. They are dramatically more popular than ever.
Console R+D and manufacture is very expensive and ultimately generates little to no direct profit.

They own the worlds most ubiquitous computer OS, and have invested massively in cloud infrastructure, that's a platform in the same sense that a console is without all the aforementioned overhead. The logic is inescapable.

Sure the hardware doesnt make much money to begin with. They make it on the software, that ppl play on the consoles. Proof is in the pudding. Ppl are buying more consoles than ever.

Cloud gaming seems like a solution to a problem that doesnt exist. We've had cloud gaming for a while now. Sony had PSNow years ago. No one cared. No one cared about Stadia. Xcloud is here already, I dont see anyone saying they are giving up console or PC gaming for Geforce now. You know what ppl really care about? Consoles. Not saying cloud gaming will have zero impact. But the idea that consoles are soon dead and everyone will be cloud gaming seems baseless, and the evidence says that wont happen.
 
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sachos

Member
As long as we can keep buying their games on PC and future consoles that can play them locally, its all good. Would be nice if they started releasing good physical releases but i know their fanbase don't care.
 

Kagey K

Member
Tbf it’ll take 20+ years to recoup the cost of the Activision buyout. So I thought that was a given anyway.
Sure if you look at it dollar for dollar with game sales maybe.

When you start looking at the assets (desks workstations, cubicles) and start depreciating them against profitable earnings, you will find they can make that money back much faster in tax savings.

Better to spend the money yourself than hand it over to someone else.
 
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