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[Effect]

I still don't get how they could just keep the baby like that. Assuming she didn't give it up because it doesn't say one way or the other. They're putting it in child services? Isn't that pretty much child theft and kidnapping if she was against it?

 

[The Adder]

I still don't get how they could just keep the baby like that. Assuming she didn't give it up because it doesn't say one way or the other. They're putting it in child services? Isn't that pretty much child theft and kidnapping if she was against it?

Putting a newborn on a flight isn't a good idea.

 

[thekad]

So you are saying it is not easier for somebody to commit espionage against the USA if they are in the US on a work visa versus if they are a citizen and granted a security clearance?

Barack The Islamic Shock Super Allah Hussein Obama

Race: Muslim

 

[The Faceless Master]

We should probably have a serious discussion on repealing the "born on american soil gives you american citizenship" thing. Seems like people go to great lengths and dangers to try and give birth in places that can technically get them into this country.

no. no, we shouldn't.

 

[Marky Mark]

How did she bring on labor? Did she use one of those hook things to break her waters as soon as she was comfortably inside US airspace?

 

[The Faceless Master]

How did she bring on labor? Did she use one of those hook things to break her waters as soon as she was comfortably inside US airspace?

gonna guess she didn't and it just happened. hence her asking about US airspace because she was going into labor prematurely and was worried she wouldn't make it.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Most of the Taiwanese that do this are afraid that the PRC will eventually take over the ROC. They want their children to be able to get US Passports.

 

[numble]

So you are saying it is not easier for somebody to commit espionage against the USA if they are in the US on a work visa versus if they are a citizen and granted a security clearance?

think carefully about it for a second.

To the folks wondering why we kept the baby here; pretty sure putting a newborn on a flight isn't the safest idea. The child will be reunited with the mother as soon as it is safe to do so.

If they grew up in a foreign country, the background check for the security clearance would reveal that. And since the parents of these babies don't have authorization to live in the US, they would usually grow up in a foreign country. The idea of such sleeper babies doesn't make much sense. You already have many foreign-born citizens that naturalize through legal reasons, and they already face tougher barriers to granting security clearances. Heck, I know third generation Chinese-Americans born and raised in the US, with parents that were not born in China/Taiwan that face difficulties getting security clearances because of some distant father's cousin uncle or something that works for a Chinese city's department of motor vehicles or something.

 

[Zornack]

no. no, we shouldn't.

Why isn't it something worth discussing? Canada and the U.S. are unique in having birthright citizenship compared to similar countries.

 

[Darren870]

The baby's an American citizen. American citizens can't be deported. INS doesn't have the authority to let her take the baby.

I had a work friend who was in America on a work visa and had a kid while in the Bay Area. He lived in terror of our company failing, because he and his wife would be sent back to Canada, but their kid would stay behind and be put in foster care.

It's a totally screwed up system.

Or your work friend would just take the child with him....

Your friends scares make no sense...

 

[FunkyMunkey]

The real tragedy is that while we all understand that this was in her best interests for the baby, we find it better to talk about whether or not it is legal and not the fact that it sucks to live in other parts of the world.

you know taiwan isn't some hellscape right?

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Why isn't it something worth discussing? Canada and the U.S. are unique in having birthright citizenship compared to similar countries.

And if your friends were jumping off a bridge, would you do it too?

Why is the European way of dealing with citizenship any better than ours? Well, other than entrenching white power.

 

[Volimar]

Pack it up. I've heard it all.....

Playing the long game.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

And if your friends were jumping off a bridge, would you do it too?

Why is the European way of dealing with citizenship any better than ours? Well, other than entrenching white power.

Mom?

 

[B_Spooky13]

It's ours now.

One of us! One of us!

The baby has been given a assault rifle, amd is on a strict diet of large Big Mac meals from McDonald's as accordance to American law

 

[MogCakes]

One of the things I'm most proud of about this country is citizenship birthright. It speaks volumes to the core tenets of the constitution - pursuit of happiness, liberty, and life. The kid has no ability to decide what citizenship he or she is going to grow up with. The mother was selfish and acted rashly, but her child is not at fault. I don't see any issue with making him or her a citizen.

 

[Izuna]

you know taiwan isn't some hellscape right?

I am well aware, not the point I am making...

 

[krae_man]

I want that air taxed!

Mark Henry already collects air bills.

 

[Heshinsi]

Or your work friend would just take the child with him....

Your friends scares make no sense...

Yeah that doesn't make any sense. The child is also Canadian through its parents. The Americans can't forcibly split the child from its parents.

 

[pigeon]

We should probably have a serious discussion on repealing the "born on american soil gives you american citizenship" thing. Seems like people go to great lengths and dangers to try and give birth in places that can technically get them into this country.

Okay, here's a serious discussion of it: it's impossible to repeal, because it's the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. It's in there because it was passed after the Civil War to guarantee that never again would America deprive people born in America, or brought into America, of their civil and constitutional rights. So getting rid of it would be very difficult and also literally a stepping stone towards tyranny, which is bad.

The real problem with people trying to give birth on American soil is that they're doing it because they can't get into America and don't think their children will be able to either. Since every immigrant adds to the average wealth of every American by producing labor, this is a straightforward failure of our immigration system, and the correct solution is not to remove birthright citizenship, but to make it much easier to immigrate to America.

 

[pigeon]

Yeah that doesn't make any sense. The child is also Canadian through its parents. The Americans can't forcibly split the child from its parents.

You are literally posting in a thread about a child who was forcibly split from its parents.

 

[antonz]

Okay, here's a serious discussion of it: it's impossible to repeal, because it's the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. It's in there because it was passed after the Civil War to guarantee that never again would America deprive people born in America, or brought into America, of their civil and constitutional rights. So getting rid of it would be very difficult and also literally a stepping stone towards tyranny, which is bad.

The real problem with people trying to give birth on American soil is that they're doing it because they can't get into America and don't think their children will be able to either. Since every immigrant adds to the average wealth of every American by producing labor, this is a straightforward failure of our immigration system, and the correct solution is not to remove birthright citizenship, but to make it much easier to immigrate to America.

Its nice to live in a fantasy land. The whole point of birth tourism has nothing to do with contributing to America or any other delusion. Its game the system then go back home then in 18 years game the system again.

 

[Ashes]

Prepare the baby catapult.

God, I feel bad for laughing.

 

[antonz]

So aside from infiltrating the upper echelons of American government via espionage, or (some) Chinese people having an easier time going/sending their kids to college here, what are the actual dangers that this phenomenon presents?

Its an unfair abuse of a system that millions of others are doing properly.

 

[numble]

Its an unfair abuse of a system that millions of others are doing properly.

What makes it unfair? Couldn't others also give birth in the US on tourist visas? The US tourist visa for Chinese citizens was recently extended to 10 years, making it "fairly" easy to do this now.

 

[antonz]

What makes it unfair? Couldn't others also give birth in the US on tourist visas? The US tourist visa for Chinese citizens was recently extended to 10 years, making it "fairly" easy to do this now.

Technically if you are near giving birth you are not even allowed to get a Visa in the first place but like most things in life wave some bills around and the restrictions suddenly get overlooked.

 

[numble]

Technically if you are near giving birth you are not even allowed to get a Visa in the first place but like most things in life wave some bills around and the restrictions suddenly get overlooked.

Okay, but they are not going to restrict the 10-year visa if there is a possibility that you are going to give birth in the 10-year period, which is absurd. I don't think they are waving bills around at the US embassy or consulate that grants these visas.

 

[pigeon]

Its nice to live in a fantasy land. The whole point of birth tourism has nothing to do with contributing to America or any other delusion. Its game the system then go back home then in 18 years game the system again.

What benefit are you suggesting they get in 18 years?

 

[NewGame]

Its an unfair abuse of a system that millions of others are doing properly.

I can't help but feel that some people don't know how hard life can be just by being born in the wrong place at the wrong time, like say during an influenza epidemic- or at the base of an active volcano.

Or you know, in a first world country.

Heck I'm lucky to be alive, my grandparents along with my mother fled conscription and the destruction of the Yugoslav empire while on my fathers side they were escaping conscription and the London blitz. If things went any differently my grandfathers could of very well shot each other should they have stayed in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Our generation might be remembered as the 'well armed rich xenophobic' generation.

 

[antonz]

I can't help but feel that some people don't know how hard life can be just by being born in the wrong place at the wrong time, like say during an influenza epidemic- or at the base of an active volcano.

Or you know, in a first world country.

Heck I'm lucky to be alive, my grandparents along with my mother fled conscription and the destruction of the Yugoslav empire while on my fathers side they were escaping conscription and the London blitz. If things went any differently my grandfathers could of very well shot each other should they have stayed in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Our generation might be remembered as the 'well armed rich xenophobic' generation.

Birth tourists are not fleeing war and pestilence. They are spending upwards of millions of dollars to get into the country in direct violation of laws and procedures.

You can be absolutely sympathetic to the plight of war refugees, general immigrants etc and still see this for what it is.

 

[Arnie7]

Nvm

 

[linsivvi]

What benefit are you suggesting they get in 18 years?

Yeah that boggled my mind. Oh no they are coming 18 years later to steal those lucrative minimum wage jobs after their "home" countries paid for all the education and healthcare during the 18 years when they could not be productive members of society.

The horror!

 

[numble]

Birth tourists are not fleeing war and pestilence. They are spending upwards of millions of dollars to get into the country in direct violation of laws and procedures.

You can be absolutely sympathetic to the plight of war refugees, general immigrants etc and still see this for what it is.

Millions really? That seems like something you made up--an EB-5 visa (investment visa), which rich people use to be able to do this the "legal way" only costs $500,000. So why would they spend millions to do this a more expensive way? (Technically, if they are in the US on proper visas, it is not a violation of laws and procedures)

 

[cvxfreak]

If the woman was in a rush, she should have flown to Guam instead.

 

[lazybones18]

Made in Taiwan, sold in America just like everything else

 

[kamakazi5]

If she isn't a citizen then what is the point of giving the baby citizenship? Can she then apply for citizenship or does she have family here that the baby can now legally stay with?

 

[Renekton]

The real tragedy is that while we all understand that this was in her best interests for the baby, we find it better to talk about whether or not it is legal and not the fact that it sucks to live in other parts of the world.

Taiwan is a nice place to live in. 1st world and all that.

 

[boiled goose]

Birth tourists are not fleeing war and pestilence. They are spending upwards of millions of dollars to get into the country in direct violation of laws and procedures.

You can be absolutely sympathetic to the plight of war refugees, general immigrants etc and still see this for what it is.

And?? Again what's the actual problem. They aren't coming here to take advantage of our healthcare hahaha

I love birthright citizenship. It makes us unique and open to all nationalities. It means there is not an American race.

Instead of demonizing these people we should be proud that they want to belong to our country in some way so badly. Sure what this lady did was stupid, selfish, and dangerous, but other than trying to prevent it i dont see a problem other than too strict immigration policies.

Work hard, pay your taxes, not a violent criminal ( or a spy! Lol), welcome home.

 

[Roi]

The real question is did she have to pay for a extra ticket?

 

[FyreWulff]

Having US citizenship makes being in the espionage business against the US a hell of a lot easier.

All of our biggest spies are natural US born and US citizens have killed other US citizens more than any other foreign entity.

Birthright citizenship is not a problem.

 

[Ty4on]

Yeah, I've heard of this sort of thing occurring often enough from the PRC and other places, but Taiwan? That's more than a little odd.

Could be several things, but wages have been stagnating in Taiwan for a while now. I think they are in many sectors higher in mainland China.

 

[boiled goose]

Could be several things, but wages have been stagnating in Taiwan for a while now. I think they are in many sectors higher in mainland China.

It's because America despite our problems is still awesome.

Best universities in the world.
Best research in the world.
Best startups in the world.

It has become harder and harder to "make it" in America, but yet the dream of making it still exists.

#freedom #america

 

[Renekton]

Could be several things, but wages have been stagnating in Taiwan for a while now. I think they are in many sectors higher in mainland China.

Could be some of their underdeveloped industries.

It's very common for Taiwanese companies to outsource grunt work to China since the former have better educated people and higher tier in tech (for now).

 

[ZoddGutts]

Here I thought it would be a South Korean woman. They go to the U.S. to have a child there in order to avoid their child from going to the Army when their old enough in SK.

 

[Zornack]

And if your friends were jumping off a bridge, would you do it too?

Why is the European way of dealing with citizenship any better than ours? Well, other than entrenching white power.

I don't know if it's better but I think it's worth talking about without being immediately shot down and called racist.

Okay, here's a serious discussion of it: it's impossible to repeal, because it's the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. It's in there because it was passed after the Civil War to guarantee that never again would America deprive people born in America, or brought into America, of their civil and constitutional rights. So getting rid of it would be very difficult and also literally a stepping stone towards tyranny, which is bad.

A very similar argument can be made about the second amendment. I don't think that one should be considered ironclad and unchangeable, either.

 

[cruets]

I still don't get how they could just keep the baby like that. Assuming she didn't give it up because it doesn't say one way or the other. They're putting it in child services? Isn't that pretty much child theft and kidnapping if she was against it?

I asked my wife who is a nurse, she said US probably just kept baby for precautions since its just newly born and not safe to fly back immediately.

 

[Buddha Beam]

I don't really have an issue with maternity tourism, provided the family is poor or from a poverty stricken country.

Unfortunately, most of the people who partake in the practice tend to be rich people (very probably from China). It's a very expensive practice. I read a good article about it a while back. It's practically a luxury vacation where you wind up giving birth.

 

[Chococat]

Several thing s bother me about this-

a) I don't like people who jump ahead in the immigration line over those who are going through proper channels. War refugees (including those from our southern) border, asylum seekers are the exception. Kids born on US soil don't bother me, they didn't choose to be here.

b) While she may have had the best intention for her child's future, knowing flying when on the verge of birth could have killed the baby. Bad mother.

So, I hold nothing against the baby,(welcome little one). After her government is done berating/fining her, she should be reunited with the when it is safe for the child to travel.

 

[Raguel]

Wow. There is a lot of, frankly, disgusting remarks here about citizenship through birth. Lots of really xenophobic, ignorant, and stupid comments.

Almost seems like there are trump supporters here.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

People's overly broad interpretations of the 14th Amendment are earily similar to right wing interpretations of the 2nd Amendment. The 14th Amendment exists to give African slaves citizenship following the Civil War, its a product of its era and makes little sense in 2015.