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Why Watch Dogs 2 is ditching Aiden Pearce:a story of youth,racial profiling,hacktivis

kiguel182

Member
Depends on how good the "you don't have to kill" mechanic actually is.

If it's mechanically lesser than the "kill" option, or not made with as much care or polish, yeah, fuck this game.

Honestly I think it shouldn't be there at all. Unless you killing would impact the story in a major way (not really realistic) it's just a way to create a dissonance experience.

Like, if you kill a bunch of people in a realistic world then most people would be freaked out and you wouldn't be a care free young hacker. I just hate that they didn't go all in on it just so "everyone can play their way".
 

kiguel182

Member
No, it's the games business because the developers believed that being able to go against the story is more important than the story. If the devs want to make a story about a guy who was falsely accused of a crime, you can't allow people to do (likely) worse shit than what he was accused of. Either have that story and make it a linear game, with no lethal options, or don't make the motivation for the character something that falls apart the second I can drive on a sidewalk and mow people down.

Yeah, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. If you want to tell a story then do it instead of allowing players to create such a dissonant experience just because you want to sell more copies.

Like, maybe don't let your player be a monster if you want to tell a complex story at the same time. Because it doesn't work.
 

Mesoian

Member
Honestly I think it shouldn't be there at all. Unless you killing would impact the story in a major way (not really realistic) it's just a way to create a dissonance experience.

Like, if you kill a bunch of people in a realistic world then most people would be freaked out and you wouldn't be a care free young hacker. I just hate that they didn't go all in on it just so "everyone can play their way".

I mean, from the gameplay slices i've seen, this game isn't very realistic.

Seriously, time to spider tanks: I've got 4 hours, 25 minutes.
 
You also gotta look at it from the perspective of French-Canadian developers making a game about what they think Americans are like. They couldn't be more wrong... I've never seen anyone in America walking around with a studded vest and mask.

What Americans like?

So is this game not releasing round the world or what?

As a British person, yes I have plenty people walking around on jackets like that, men and women.


Currently on sale at ASOS, which is a quite popular youth brand of shops here




The mask is silly but something that directly references internet culture, which a game about a hacking group is going to be knee deep in.
 

Muffdraul

Member
Yeah.

I think the dude gets shit on way too much, especially they way people stroke their loins over batman, but the fact is, his story is concluded.

Shame they seem to throwing the baby out with the bath water though. I would of like to see more of t-bone.

But whatever. I'm going to be playing a game about a black guy, who so far looks talks and acts like a black guy would, dealing with a very black problem in a Videogame.

Even in watch_dogs 2 is totally shit, It's already won me over on that premise alone. Day 1 and at full price.

I dunno, I seem to remember him giving a little monologue at the end of WD1 about how now he was going to become the hacker hero the world needed or whatever. I definitely expected him in the sequel. And I definitely think the only reason he isn't is that Ubi knows damn well how much shit is talked about him by people who played the game.
 

Dremark

Banned
I realize he wasn't a popular character but I hope he has some role in the sequel. I don't really have an issue with him being replaced as the lead but he's far too iconic to be left out entirely.
 

Cardon

Member
Feel a bit conflicted about not having Aiden in WD2. Understandably the character wasn't the greatest in the first game, but not trying to ever so slightly correct past mistakes and dropping him all together just seems like a huge admission of defeat to me.

Like what will happen if WD2 has characters that aren't received well? Stand alone stories in sequels could work, but I just hope the writing team is actually good this time out.
 

Dremark

Banned
Honestly I think it shouldn't be there at all. Unless you killing would impact the story in a major way (not really realistic) it's just a way to create a dissonance experience.

Like, if you kill a bunch of people in a realistic world then most people would be freaked out and you wouldn't be a care free young hacker. I just hate that they didn't go all in on it just so "everyone can play their way".

Infamous: Second Son did a pretty decent job of changing the narrative enough to fit the way you played with this type of a character as the lead. If they do a decent morality system and have it change the narrative a bit based on it I don't see an issue.

Something like GTA4 where your character is supposed to be sympathetic but you still can gun down thousands of people at will I'll admit kind of screws with the story though.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yeah, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. If you want to tell a story then do it instead of allowing players to create such a dissonant experience just because you want to sell more copies.

Like, maybe don't let your player be a monster if you want to tell a complex story at the same time. Because it doesn't work.
If players care more about behaving in a way that's tonally consistent with the story they're allowed to, however, players who don't can play it their way. It's about giving the player agency in their own experience, (you'll notice that this applies to all of their triple A titles). I have no issue with other players playing the game differently than me.

Infamous: Second Son did a pretty decent job of changing the narrative enough to fit the way you played with this type of a character as the lead. If they do a decent morality system and have it change the narrative a bit based on it I don't see an issue.

Something like GTA4 where your character is supposed to be sympathetic but you still can gun down thousands of people at will I'll admit kind of screws with the story though.
Game has no morality system. Especially not a binary one, (thankfully). Evil narrative in Infamous SS made no sense.
 
If players care more about behaving in a way that's tonally consistent with the story they're allowed to, however, players who don't can play it their way. It's about giving the player agency in their own experience, (you'll notice that this applies to all of their triple A titles). I have no issue with other players playing the game differently than me.
Just wanted to add something small to this...this pretty much applies to triple a titles period
 
I dunno, I seem to remember him giving a little monologue at the end of WD1 about how now he was going to become the hacker hero the world needed or whatever. I definitely expected him in the sequel. And I definitely think the only reason he isn't is that Ubi knows damn well how much shit is talked about him by people who played the game.

Yeah, which is fair enough. But the reality is, even if he was liked, they would of had to write a brand new character arc for him, and honestly it would always of made more sense to start fresh. His "Batman begins" monologue always just seemed like a way to wrap the game up on a satisfying note, not a statement of future intentions.

We have to remember this man was will to tear down a whole city because of his murdered nicece, but everything he did put even more of his family in danger. That's not hero material, even by batman standard.
 

kiguel182

Member
Infamous: Second Son did a pretty decent job of changing the narrative enough to fit the way you played with this type of a character as the lead. If they do a decent morality system and have it change the narrative a bit based on it I don't see an issue.

Something like GTA4 where your character is supposed to be sympathetic but you still can gun down thousands of people at will I'll admit kind of screws with the story though.

GTA 4 is the prime example of how to mess is up yeah. The story + gameplay make no sense.

If players care more about behaving in a way that's tonally consistent with the story they're allowed to, however, players who don't can play it their way. It's about giving the player agency in their own experience, (you'll notice that this applies to all of their triple A titles). I have no issue with other players playing the game differently than me.


Game has no morality system. Especially not a binary one, (thankfully). Evil narrative in Infamous SS made no sense.

I don't think you should allow players to play an inconsistent game. If you want a narrative and player choices then adapt that narrative to fit what is happening around you. If not then that narrative is just inconsistent with what's happening gameplay wise. Yeah, it's a fun sandbox that you can "play your way" but it's also a poor narrative and/or a pretty shallow one.

Separating the story from the gameplay just makes a poor video game.
 

Muffdraul

Member
Yeah, which is fair enough. But the reality is, even if he was liked, they would of had to write a brand new character arc for him, and honestly it would always of made more sense to start fresh. His "Batman begins" monologue always just seemed like a way to wrap the game up on a satisfying note, not a statement of future intentions.

We have to remember this man was will to tear down a whole city because of his murdered nicece, but everything he did put even more of his family in danger. That's not hero material, even by batman standard.

One word: Redemption =P
 
The idea of a hacktivist is pretty cringey, but otherwise looming forward to the game. Love the color and change of setting
 

Dremark

Banned
Game has no morality system. Especially not a binary one, (thankfully). Evil narrative in Infamous SS made no sense.

I don't see how it made no sense. If you played positive karma you were heroic, if you played negative karma you were a prick lashing out against the corrupt organization.

Both made sense with the narrative and how the character started out, to me at least.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Just wanted to add something small to this...this pretty much applies to triple a titles period
The ones that aren't dad simulators at least. Player longevity is really important this gen.

I don't see how it made no sense. If you played positive karma you were heroic, if you played negative karma you were a prick lashing out against the corrupt organization.

Both made sense with the narrative and how the character started out, to me at least.
It makes no sense that Delsin would be evil. His first decision is either being truthful about being a conduit to save Betty or just saying piss off. The fact that your brother is ok with you killing so many civilians, (ok enough to never raise any sort of significant backlash to your actions and even at one point saying he's proud of you). It just doesn't make sense and very clear that if they make another one, the good side will be canon. First Light was incredibly refreshing because it cared more about telling a story with shades of grey instead of using a binary morality system.
 
True, but it's pretty hard to write a redemption arc that is both light hearted and allows for the same level of reckless abandon that the games mechanics create.

At best you would create the same level of dissonance that the Unchartred series suffers from.

I'm surprised more open world games never adopted the mechanic of not letting you kill civilians like the Scarface game on PS2. It fit the story, and there were always enough criminals around if you were feeling trigger happy.
 

KDC720

Member
Basically PR speak for "Everyone thought the last dude sucked so we went with a new guy"

In all seriousness, Aiden wasn't a good MC, but they did finish up his story in the first game, and in the ending I got he at least acknowledged how much harm he was doing the whole time in his quest for revenge.

This reminds of an Altair ---> Ezio type situation, where Ubisoft is really trying to hit it home with a new protagonist. Marcus seems like he could fit the bill but I don't think I've seen enough of him yet to really judge.
 

Jeffrey

Member
hope the story doesnt' fall apart due to the disconnect between story and open world game.

Seems like MC was wrongfully profiled as a kid, but now he's hacking people and shooting folks with assault rifles... ?

My hopes are impossibly low for this story wise, being a ubisoft AAA game, but wouldn't it be nice if it turned out well.

At least let me be able to help strangers out, and not just steal their money.
 

vypek

Member
hope the story doesnt' fall apart due to the disconnect between story and open world game.

Seems like MC was wrongfully profiled as a kid, but now he's hacking people and shooting folks with assault rifles... ?

My hopes are impossibly low for this story wise, being a ubisoft AAA game, but wouldn't it be nice if it turned out well.

At least let me be able to help strangers out, and not just steal their money.

I don't see what there would be a disconnect. If you choose to play the game shooting people that can still work
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
hope the story doesnt' fall apart due to the disconnect between story and open world game.

Seems like MC was wrongfully profiled as a kid, but now he's hacking people and shooting folks with assault rifles... ?

My hopes are impossibly low for this story wise, being a ubisoft AAA game, but wouldn't it be nice if it turned out well.

At least let me be able to help strangers out, and not just steal their money.
His main weapon is a taser pistol. And you can choose not to steal money. And ofc you can help strangers via side activities like preventing crimes or stopping robberies.
 

wipeout364

Member
I don't care for the new direction of the game art style wise. I think and I've said this before there was an opportunity for differentiation from n GTA with more of a futuristic approach similar to deus ex or syndicate, I think that's what people were hyped about in the original trailer for watchdogs many years ago. That of course is not what we got ; what we got was kind of a bland GTA with some cell phone tricks and a mis messaged online component . I actually am someone who enjoyed watchdogs, but this new direction kind of makes me think even more of GTA 5 with its bright setting in California and to me makes the game seem derivative which is too bad. I will be buying it as I liked the first and see some real opportunities for tuning it's systems but I am not sure the setting and art direction help them differentiate themselves as a brand.
 

Jeffrey

Member
His main weapon is a taser pistol. And you can choose not to steal money. And ofc you can help strangers via side activities like preventing crimes or stopping robberies.

true, but he still has the option to use heavy weaponry as shown in the trailer. Wonder if there will be any consequences to that. Also, strapping bombs to cars and running people over... I just hope there is more nonlethal options than just a dinky taser.

I remember you could stop random crimes in 1, but there wasn't really any option to helping people with the hacky stuff, you could only really just steal their money?

No way to robin hood some money to some homeless guy etc.
 

Samemind

Member
I don't think you should allow players to play an inconsistent game.

I completely disagree with this sentiment. Arbitrary restrictions placed on gameplay to serve the narrative are almost never good.

Not to say WD2 couldn't have been a non-lethal game. You'd just have make hacking much more powerful of a tool to compensate for the possibilites that killing people allows.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
true, but he still has the option to use heavy weaponry as shown in the trailer. Wonder if there will be any consequences to that. Also, strapping bombs to cars and running people over... I just hope there is more nonlethal options than just a dinky taser.

I remember you could stop random crimes in 1, but there wasn't really any option to helping people with the hacky stuff, you could only really just steal their money?

No way to robin hood some money to some homeless guy etc.
There are nonlethal proximity lures that stun instead of kill, also a lot of options with the drone and RC car. And yea they confirmed there's no way to give money back. He has the option to use lethal weaponry but it's totally up to you. In the e3 trailer they whipped out an assault rifle to make a flanking route. So lethal weapons have other uses besides brutally murdering everything in cold blood.
 
?? It's been confirmed weeks ago that you can play through the entire game without killing a single individual. They even made a point of this at e3 by playing the mission nonlethally. It's up to the player to decide.


Part of Marcus's motivation is that he was wrongly profiled for a crime he didn't commit by the CTOS system due to his ethnicity.
Wish someone would ask Ubi people about this.
 

Hasney

Member
Good, one of the worst characters ever, topped only by Clara in the same goddamn game.

What I've seen of the Watch Dogs cast so far makes them seem very unlikable still, but more douchebags than straight up cunts.
 

Muffdraul

Member
Wish someone would ask Ubi people about this.

I was replaying WD1 after the WD2 announcement, and I noticed something super blatant right at the first section of the game that I can't believe I never noticed before.

After sleeping at the safehouse for the first time, there's a tutorial about using your profiler on NPC's phones. Aiden basically says "I can gather everyone's personal data and use it to my advantage. Mwa ha ha ha."

Then after the next couple missions you do the first CtOS control center mission, and Aiden sees those CtZenOS videos for the first time, and he says "Oh my god... Blume is collecting everyone's personal data so they can use it to their advantage. Those bastards!"
 
You're missing my point... My point was that the game takes place in America and it's being made by French Canadians. Their interpretation of how Americans actually dress is way off.

Have you actually been to San Francisco?




That's being sold in five and diamond, a SF punk store.

And sorry, you are not going to convince me that Marcus's default getup is not similar to what youth are wearing around the the US. Maybe in your little bubble maybe.


Edit: Thinking about it, why the hell does this even matter? Who on earth dresses like Aiden Pierce?
 

Falchion

Member
I like how they are pitching it as the main character is having a blast doing what he's doing. That'll make everything more fun.
 
Did he just compare Aiden to Batman? Ha ha ha ha

Aiden was ditched because no one liked his boring character. They know people didn't like him so they changed it. Simple
 
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