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[01011001]

I played through it with auto-aim off lol

really? on a controller? I mean... damn... I wouldn't have been able to tolerate that tbh. Controller is not great in that game

what difficulty?

 

[R6Rider]

really? on a controller? I mean... damn... I wouldn't have been able to tolerate that tbh. Controller is not great in that game

what difficulty?

Yeah, on PS5. I did the normal or equivalent difficulty. Although for these older style fps games I tend to "aim" more with strafing than normal. Flying enemies were definitely harder to kill and I'm sure I wasted plenty of ammo.

 

[Rat Rage]

Dual analog aiming is just limited by nature, that's why.

IR pointer aiming and gyro aiming are way better naturally.

So in order to answer OP's question of "Why is it so hard for devs to make good fps aim with a controller", the answer is pretty simple: devs don't use motion aiming enough.

Of course some of the hardware manufacturers are sometimes to blame as well, like Nintendo, who got rid of IR pointer aiming and now only offers gyro aiming.

 

[01011001]

Dual analog aiming is just limited by nature, that's why.

IR pointer aiming and gyro aiming are way better naturally.

So in order to answer OP's question of "Why is it so hard for devs to make good fps aim with a controller", the answer is pretty simple: devs don't use motion aiming enough.

Of course some of the hardware manufacturers are sometimes to blame as well, like Nintendo, who got rid of IR pointer aiming and now only offers gyro aiming.

like, in essence you are correct that sticks are limited, but that is not the topic at hand.

some games on sticks feel amazing, Titanfall 2 being a prime example.
others feel like dogshit, prime example here would be Deathloop or Ghostwire Tokyo

2 games in the same series can even be affected.
analog stick aiming in The Evil Within 1 was pretty good, but in The Evil Within 2 it was absolutely awful.
different directors, different people making the choices.

that's has nothing to do with the existence of better alternatives to analog sticks.
this topic is about games that feel amazing on analog sticks vs games that feel like shit on analog sticks.

and the reason behind that is bad decisions made by developers, it has nothing to do with sticks being limited

 

[RayHell]

Why a hammer is bad at putting screws? Some tools are better at specific task.
If one day, eye tracking aiming is standard, mouse will feel sluggish.

 

[recursive]

What drives me nuts is when there is no x y individual sensitivity.

 

[R6Rider]

What drives me nuts is when there is no x y individual sensitivity.

Yeah this is annoying along with no separate hipfire and aiming sensivity

 

[Codes 208]

Yeah this is annoying along with no separate hipfire and aiming sensivity

Credit where its due, this level of advanced settings is one of the things 343 improved upon halo.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Why a hammer is bad at putting screws? Some tools are better at specific task.
If one day, eye tracking aiming is standard, mouse will feel sluggish.

I hope no dev read this.

 

[DeepSpace5D]

I'm not smoking, but pass me your blunt so I can't feel the clunkiness like you.

Play Titanfall 2 or a modern cod. Then you realise destiny 2 is pretty bad.

Out of curiosity OP, what are your controller settings on Destiny 2, and how much time have you put into the game?

Like, what is your settings for look sensitivity, ADS sensitivity modifier, sprint-turn scale, Field of View, etc.

Because I’m going to echo what some others have said here and say Destiny 2 is literally the best feeling fps on console that I’ve ever played. But I had to get my settings perfectly adjusted to what feels right to me before it felt that way.

There’s a reason I have 600+ hours in Destiny 2 this year alone, and it’s mainly because of how good it feels to play.

 

[01011001]

Out of curiosity OP, what are your controller settings on Destiny 2, and how much time have you put into the game?

Like, what is your settings for look sensitivity, ADS sensitivity modifier, sprint-turn scale, Field of View, etc.

Because I’m going to echo what some others have said here and say Destiny 2 is literally the best feeling fps on console that I’ve ever played. But I had to get my settings perfectly adjusted to what feels right to me before it felt that way.

There’s a reason I have 600+ hours in Destiny 2 this year alone, and it’s mainly because of how good it feels to play.

you simply like it because the game basically aims for you and the audiovisual response of hitting things feels good. they might as well use a lock-on feature

the aiming is pure garbage, you can't "perfectly" adjust it in any way.

if the settings you just named are still the only ones in there and they haven't drastically changed them since I last played then it still is garbage.

because that would mean that the game still has unavoidable aim acceleration (cardinal sin #1), axial deadzones (cardinal sin #2) and a really crooked and unadjustable reaction curve (cardinal sin #3)

the 3 horsemen of bad controller aiming, plaguing console Shooters since the PS2 era and some developers like Bungie are stuck in the past, as Destiny's analog aiming is based on Halo 2, a game from 2004... since then a lot of developers like Infinity Ward perfected controller aiming, while Halo and Destiny are stuck in the past.

I think it even has separate acceleration for horizontal and vertical aim, leading to additional inconsistencies...



funnily enough, the only thing 343i refuses ro change about Halo is the outdated way to do controller aiming. they want to homogenise everything else with modern and popular shooters, but that shit is still stuck in Halo 2 times, complete with the ridiculous aim assist that half aims for you and the unadjustable filters that fuck with your stick inputs.


edit: I just looked up some videos to see the controller menu... turns out Destiny 2 doesn't even have adjustable deadzones... and it has a ridiculously big deadzone for modern standards... and, THE DEADZONE IS A FUCKING SQUARE wtf is this game? it's more backwards than Halo Infinite, holy shit... I haven't played it in years so I completely forgot how little you can actually adjust... fucking hell this is so much worse than I thought

 

[CS Lurker]

For me the only way to play a shooter on a console (with a controller) is if there's a good gyro implementation. Other than that, it's all shit.

 

[lukilladog]

It´s a mechanical thing, sticks are just too short to allow small and easy corrections.

 

[01011001]

It´s a mechanical thing, sticks are just too short to allow small and easy corrections.

another person completely missing the topic at hand...

 

[DeepSpace5D]

you simply like it because the game basically aims for you and the audiovisual response of hitting things feels good. they might as well use a lock-on feature

the aiming is pure garbage, you can't "perfectly" adjust it in any way.

if the settings you just named are still the only ones in there and they haven't drastically changed them since I last played then it still is garbage.

because that would mean that the game still has unavoidable aim acceleration (cardinal sin #1), axial deadzones (cardinal sin #2) and a really crooked and unadjustable reaction curve (cardinal sin #3)

the 3 horsemen of bad controller aiming, plaguing console Shooters since the PS2 era and some developers like Bungie are stuck in the past, as Destiny's analog aiming is based on Halo 2, a game from 2004... since then a lot of developers like Infinity Ward perfected controller aiming, while Halo and Destiny are stuck in the past.

I think it even has separate acceleration for horizontal and vertical aim, leading to additional inconsistencies...



funnily enough, the only thing 343i refuses ro change about Halo is the outdated way to do controller aiming. they want to homogenise everything else with modern and popular shooters, but that shit is still stuck in Halo 2 times, complete with the ridiculous aim assist that half aims for you and the unadjustable filters that fuck with your stick inputs.

I mean I’ve seen you say these same points to pretty much everyone who has said they felt Destiny or Halo had good feeling controls. And to be honest with you I don’t know all that much about axial deadzones and whatnot, so you probably aren’t wrong there.

Still though, I maintain that I keep coming back to Destiny 2 mainly for how good it feels to play. After I dialed in my settings to my personal preference, the gameplay feels incredibly smooth and responsive. And honestly, I don’t think this is some controversial or minority opinion for people who play Destiny 2 on a regular basis.

With regard to the aim assist stuff, I understand it’s there. From my understanding, it is present on both console and PC, but supposedly moreso on console right? But saying the game is just aiming for me is imho a pretty big exaggeration. If my eyes see the aim reticle of my gun on screen line up with the head of an enemy, it registers as a head shot. If the reticle is even just slightly off and my accuracy is not directly aimed at the head, I’ll miss the shot. That is honestly my experience when playing the game as far as what my eyes perceive to be happening on screen

I do understand there is a certain amount of bullet magnetism in the game, but that is also highly malleable depending on the various customization options you can have with your weapons, mods, perks, skills, etc. For example, mods that improve target acquisition or accuracy have a direct effect on the level of aim assist your character has. So this is a feature that is woven into the game well beyond just an inherent base level for console players.

 

[Kabelly]

Did someone say gyro aim?


oh wait, Microsoft failed another gen without it.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Did someone say gyro aim?


oh wait, Microsoft failed another gen without it.

Not rly, as you can use gyro in MS games of this gen.

 

[Kabelly]

Not rly, as you can use gyro in MS games of this gen.

Xbox Series S/X do not have a gyroscopic sensor in their controllers.

edit: Like the wonderful Flick-Stick/gyro update in fortnite is obviously omitted on the Xbox platform.

 

[64bitmodels]

Better ask why so few games make use of gyro-aiming. It feels way more natural and is accurate.
Aim roughly at the target with the stick and adjust with gyro-aim, works with every FPS on Steam Deck I tried so far - and games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or F.E.A.R. don't have aim assist, still works like a charm. The Vita did it as well in some games.

Nintendo is about 10 steps ahead. You guys are all wondering why people can't find the perfect settings of auto-aim, acceleration and auto-snap, and meanwhile Nintendo mastered a full tier well beyond that. It's embarrassing.

Splatoon will have far better controls than any console shooter this year. Neon White is another great example. I doubt people could even play that game with just traditional dual stick, but on Switch it works flawlessly.

Blame Xbox for that. Xbox players are the biggest audience for FPS games. They also play on a console which has 0 motion control whatsoever. Until we can get MS to put gyro inside their controllers, we probably won't see any progress for gyro aiming at all

 

[Edgelord79]

Then there's games like Halo and Destiny that's feels like ass and are heavily clunky….

Nope.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Controllers arent good for fps, its why they usually put some assisting when you point a reticule on something.

 

[64bitmodels]

I still agree with 01011001 where we should find a good way to ditch the right analog stick entirely, as it doesn't just suck for fps games but sucks in general and has almost no use that a TouchPad or trackball wouldn't do better
The steam deck is currently the closest to fully realizing this where it has both gyro and TouchPad, making aiming absolute bliss and closing the gap between mouse and controller even further. It's also a handheld that isn't a standalone controller. If valve made a steam controller 2 which remedied the issues of the original, I think it would catch on for pc players at least

 

[SeasonedInTheAbyss]

The Steam Controller was a wacky medium between the two. Once it was dialed in to your personal prefs.

 

[marjo]

The absolute best controllers for aiming I've ever used are the Valve Index controllers in games that supported full motion controls (like HL: Alyx).. Makes everything else seem archaic.

 

[lukilladog]

another person completely missing the topic at hand...

I was just answering the topic title question.

 

[clarky]

Without any aim assist, maybe. Which games do you play without any aim assist? And if it is so easy to aim with a mouse, go to win some championships easily for us to see.

Im 50 years old, the only thing im winning these days is a drinking competition.

 

[Tams]

Ask Microsoft why they didn't include a gyroscope in the Xbox One controller.

 

[Tams]

Have to say mouse is king for aim with Gyro very very close behind, but the whole thing is killed when you have to use a keyboard for movement, its fucking backwards ass way of doing things.

On one hand you have a precise 1-1 tool in the other you have binary off/on clunky keys where you have to distort your natural hand position and grip to even do basic manoeuvres.

Amazed in 2022 someone hasn't been able to comfortably combine controller type movement and action buttons with precision of a mouse.

You've been able to do that for years. The problem is the selection of peripherals and game support.

For peripherals, there's:

• PlayStation Move Navigation Controller
• Wii Nunchuck
• Logitech G13
• Azeron

For the analogue granularity, but not the directionality, there are also keyboards that use key switches with optical sensors (using lasers, I believe) or Hall effect sensors.

Games need to support DirectInput and Xinput simultaneously. Warframe does and plays excellently with a left control stick peripheral. Sleeping Dogs does not, so you have to choose between a controller or mouse & keyboard.

I used a PlayStation Move Navigation Controller and a MadCatz M.M.O. 7 for years.

 

[karasu]

Because it's compared with a mouse, the biggest cheat code in gaming history.

 

[Tams]

Because it's compared with a mouse, the biggest cheat code in gaming history.

This is just bullshit.

A mouse isn't cheating. It's just much more superior aiming controller. Games that use an insane about of aim assist to make up for joysticks' deficiencies? Now that's cheating. But it does matter as long as everyone has fun.

 

[karasu]

This is just bullshit.

A mouse isn't cheating. It's just much more superior aiming controller. Games that use an insane about of aim assist to make up for joysticks' deficiencies? Now that's cheating. But it does matter as long as everyone has fun.

I meant that figuratively. It's so good that it's almost a cheat code.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Xbox Series S/X do not have a gyroscopic sensor in their controllers.

edit: Like the wonderful Flick-Stick/gyro update in fortnite is obviously omitted on the Xbox platform.

You can use any controller with gyro on MS games of this gen. I am obviously not talking about the Xbox versions of the games.

 

[soulbait]

because you are wrong, that's why I am discounting what you said.

it's perfectly easy to make good aiming on a controller... you can literally do it yourself on PC by literally emulating a mouse on your right stick.

yes I'm using the word literally here a lot maybe but it's literally the best way to do it.

that's what I did when playing the Halo Infinite beta because Halo Infinite natively has dogshit controller aiming.

so I saw someone post a config he made on Reddit, I Downloaded that config from within the Steam controller settings, adjusted my response curve a little bit and simply had to adjust the mouse sensitivity in-game to my liking.
the difference was night and day.

the simple mouse movement directly bound to the right stick felt absolutely perfect, very similar to good controller shooters like Titanfall, Apex or CoD.

it's ridiculously simple to make a shooter play well and feel good on a controller.
it's literally harder to make bad controller aiming, because the developers need to add artificial changes to the raw input the right analog stick sends to the console. like additional code that adds ramp up time, or additional code for the weird ass sensitivity curve Halo Infinite uses... that literally had to be coded in on top of the raw stick input which would have been better in every way

and there is zero correlation with how easy it is to use a mouse, that has nothing to do with people finding some games to play like shit on controller.

If this is your tone and approach to arguments/debates over things that do not matter in laugh, like video game inputs, I really hate to know what you put your family/friends through when discussing topics that actually have importance.

For you, maybe that is how thumbstick inputs are, but for the majority it is not the case. It is why these additional assists added to controller inputs are there. They would not add them if it is not something the majority of users needed to use. You are an outlier, enjoy knowing that, but for most there are additional tools needed to help assist with precision aiming with a controller. This is not a bad thing, it is just the nature of an analog controller, that has defined limits of movements while using an appendage (your thumb) that is not as precise with fine movements.

But congratulations to you for it not being an issue.

 

[Kabelly]

You can use any controller with gyro on MS games of this gen. I am obviously not talking about the Xbox versions of the games.

So again, Microsoft failed another gen by not including gyro in their controllers. Why are you excluding Xbox? I know you can play pc games with gyro. I've been playing Sunset Overdrive with it. That's not what I said.

If they did add it all three consoles would have true parity and it could really bring native gyro to the forefront. Sad seeing xbox users ask how to play fornite with gyro.

 

[rodrigolfp]

If this is your tone and approach to arguments/debates over things that do not matter in laugh, like video game inputs, I really hate to know what you put your family/friends through when discussing topics that actually have importance.

For you, maybe that is how thumbstick inputs are, but for the majority it is not the case. It is why these additional assists added to controller inputs are there. They would not add them if it is not something the majority of users needed to use. You are an outlier, enjoy knowing that, but for most there are additional tools needed to help assist with precision aiming with a controller. This is not a bad thing, it is just the nature of an analog controller, that has defined limits of movements while using an appendage (your thumb) that is not as precise with fine movements.

But congratulations to you for it not being an issue.

It is bad. Much better solution is already created, gyro.

 

[small_law]

It's the problem of using your thumb with an analog stick on a controller versus using your whole arm with a mouse. You just don't have the range of motion or precision with your thumb that you do when using a mouse with your wrist arm, etc. There's only so much you can do to accommodate the biomechanical nature of a human being.

 

[decisions]

Gyro save us!!!

 

[Tams]

Gyro save us!!!

 

[Orpheum]

Deathloop was so shitty in this regard that i dropped the game altogether. Doom 2016 was great also in my opinion. Felt great to play

 

[Ogbert]

Destiny 2 is brilliant on controller.

And even though performance is better on M&K, the sound design and handling is so exceptional in that game, it's probably the only fps where I prefer to play on controller.

 

[R6Rider]

Deathloop was so shitty in this regard that i dropped the game altogether. Doom 2016 was great also in my opinion. Felt great to play

Deathloop definitely had some pretty wonky aiming. There was a setting that could be toggled (based on what I remember, but might be different now) that made it a little better, but still not very good.

 

[soulbait]

It is bad. Much better solution is already created, gyro.

I have tried gryo, but it never "clicked" with me. I think it has something to do with how lite the controller is and no resistance. But, for those who like it, yeah it can be a lot more precise.

 

[OZ9000]

I would always pick a controller over a m+kb. I hate using a keyboard for movement.

Same. I never ever use my MKB even for games such as Doom Eternal.

I love using the controller. It's comfy as fuck.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

I would always pick a controller over a m+kb. I hate using a keyboard for movement.

i want a controller/joystick for movement, a mouse for aiming, and i want both to rumble (still surprised we dont have rumbling mice yet... dont care if it might mess up your aim a little, that sounds fun).

 

[R6Rider]

i want a controller/joystick for movement, a mouse for aiming, and i want both to rumble (still surprised we dont have rumbling mice yet... dont care if it might mess up your aim a little, that sounds fun).

They make those partial gamepad things with an analog stick for movement. I've never used one, but they seem to be pretty good.

Similarly, I've used my PS Move Navigation controller with my PC. So I would move and use the buttons on the nav controller along with the mouse for aiming.

 

[Uiki]

i want a controller/joystick for movement, a mouse for aiming, and i want both to rumble (still surprised we dont have rumbling mice yet... dont care if it might mess up your aim a little, that sounds fun).

Steelseries was dumb enough to make a mouse with rumble, years ago.

It went really really well.

Not.

 

[01011001]

If this is your tone and approach to arguments/debates over things that do not matter in laugh, like video game inputs, I really hate to know what you put your family/friends through when discussing topics that actually have importance.

sorry that you are wrong, but you are so wrong that I have to tell you that you are indeed WRONG

For you, maybe that is how thumbstick inputs are, but for the majority it is not the case. It is why these additional assists added to controller inputs are there. They would not add them if it is not something the majority of users needed to use. You are an outlier, enjoy knowing that, but for most there are additional tools needed to help assist with precision aiming with a controller.

weird how the most popular competitive shooters like CoD, Apex and Fortnite get it right tho and Fortnite even being a game that after a lot of backlash and literally years of pushing from the community implemented a completely new aiming system that ditched all the filtering and processing after the fact and added a shitload of options to adjust. before it had ALL the worst aspects of analog aiming, similar to games like Halo or Destiny and they completely changed that

People do not need these things, these things don't help either, all they do (the things we, the people who know the topic at hand, say are bad) is make the controls worse, less responsive and inconsistent

This is not a bad thing, it is just the nature of an analog controller, that has defined limits of movements while using an appendage (your thumb) that is not as precise with fine movements.

But congratulations to you for it not being an issue.

you LITERALLY have no idea what you are talking about, this is not the topic at hand at all, and you are WRONG... I can't say this often and strongly enough, you are completely out of your element. you most likely never heard the terms response curve or axial deadzone

 

[01011001]

I mean I’ve seen you say these same points to pretty much everyone who has said they felt Destiny or Halo had good feeling controls. And to be honest with you I don’t know all that much about axial deadzones and whatnot, so you probably aren’t wrong there.

Still though, I maintain that I keep coming back to Destiny 2 mainly for how good it feels to play. After I dialed in my settings to my personal preference, the gameplay feels incredibly smooth and responsive. And honestly, I don’t think this is some controversial or minority opinion for people who play Destiny 2 on a regular basis.

With regard to the aim assist stuff, I understand it’s there. From my understanding, it is present on both console and PC, but supposedly moreso on console right? But saying the game is just aiming for me is imho a pretty big exaggeration. If my eyes see the aim reticle of my gun on screen line up with the head of an enemy, it registers as a head shot. If the reticle is even just slightly off and my accuracy is not directly aimed at the head, I’ll miss the shot. That is honestly my experience when playing the game as far as what my eyes perceive to be happening on screen

I do understand there is a certain amount of bullet magnetism in the game, but that is also highly malleable depending on the various customization options you can have with your weapons, mods, perks, skills, etc. For example, mods that improve target acquisition or accuracy have a direct effect on the level of aim assist your character has. So this is a feature that is woven into the game well beyond just an inherent base level for console players.

the game "feels good" that is true, but it's not the aiming controls that do that. it's the audio visual design (animations of the gun, the sound of the gun, hit response markers and sound etc)

but just as a demonstration for the bullet magnetism in Destiny 2, and it's basically the same in Halo if not stronger in some circumstances.

and I will remain with my opinion that if Destiny 2 wouldn't have this much aim assist and bullet magnetism, people would not say it plays well. because I have played shooters with similar controls but with (let's call it) normal aim assist, and it is almost unplayable.
and yes, the clip here is on Mouse on PC btw. because if mouse didn't have this massive magnetism then controller players would fry them to no end. the same reason why Halo Infinite keeps the bullet magnetism on Mouse and Keyboard.
in Halo's case it is because the BR (the most used weapon in competitive modes) basically aims itself, barely needs input from the player, just aim at the general direction of the enemy.

I think in Halo's case the Commando (a similar weapon to the BR in terms of use cases) was specially introduced to give Mouse players a weapon they can dominate with as it has very little aim assist on controller and has a faster TTK and a higher effective distance than the BR

 

[Pegasus Actual]

You could always buy a kb/m mod and ruin the game. make the game more fun and playable.

FTFY

But you know, Splatoon is only for babies. The main console shooter with zero aim assist and far more technical controls ....

Main console shooter w/ zero aim assist? That's gotta be Siege.

 

[01011001]

Main console shooter w/ zero aim assist? That's gotta be Siege.

didn't Siege add aim assist a while back? I haven't played it on console for a while but I heard they did.

H1Z1 has no aim assist tho on PS4... but that game is pretty much dead... it was the hot shit for a few months tho before all the competitors came to console/launched like PUBG and Apex

edit:

I kinda feel like that Aim Assist in Siege would kinda fuck with your aim way too much... this is a game where some strategies require you to aim through small holes in walls... and if your aim gets disturbed by a random guy running past that would annoy me to no end lol