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|OT| NSFW Why gamers complain about their games being taken away |OT| Censorship Controversy Central

Madonis

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I don't know about you guys, but the creator of Kenshin was publicly revealed as a total creep. That's not an overreaction to me. If you have to draw a line somewhere, I'd draw it there. People wanting to avoid giving money to such a person, even indirectly, by buying Jump Force might sound harsh but makes sense. I am normally against cutting content, but this would qualify as a justifiable exception because a criminal is involved.
 
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- Valkyria Chronicle
The fourth in that series yeah, that had email campaigns to Sega organized by them asking for the game to be censored.
I'm not aware of what happened yet with SSB Ultimate.

Their desperation with DQXI is truly sad.
The composer is a WW2 crime denier and abusive copyright law advocate granted (something tells me the latter is okay considering Disney and the general hatred against fan works), but his latest crime was being a co-host for a TV show with a lady lawmaker who said LGBT people are "a burden on society" because "they don't reproduce", and while the Japanese internet discussion was more concerned about the lady, her statements and why she chose to say that in that time and place, resetera and kotaku were focused on how the composer was in the same room as her and didn't condemn her (in fact he tried to change the topic as soon as possible), so he's guilty by association for that new crime.
So the solution was to try tarring anyone who associates with that composer as also guilty by association. First it was Square Enix's overseas branches, then it was bringing up their PS4 streaming restrictions that existed in other games already, a purity test over who bought DQXI used or not, fake controversies like C&Ds and ISP reports for the orchestral mod that never happened... and most damningly, the personal sexual life of Yuji Hori, and how Akira Toriyama is a "problematic" "tax evader".
 

CatCouch

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Let me make a quick list about recent ResetERA outrage bullshit:
- Jump Force
- SSB Ultimate
- CDPR twitter (2x)
- Valkyria Chronicle
- DQ XI composer & Bunny
- RDR2
- GTA VI

And that just from what I can pick on my head now. Beside GamerGater this is truly hate fueled forum representing all the wrong about the video games internet community.
Don't forget Death Mark! They called the game "inherently misogynistic" in their OT for it. There was hostility towards those who didn't want the game censored, too. It's one thing not to like fan service, it's another to demand it cease existing and attacking those who do like it.
 

CatCouch

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The fourth in that series yeah, that had email campaigns to Sega organized by them asking for the game to be censored.
I'm not aware of what happened yet with SSB Ultimate.

Their desperation with DQXI is truly sad.
The composer is a WW2 crime denier and abusive copyright law advocate granted (something tells me the latter is okay considering Disney and the general hatred against fan works), but his latest crime was being a co-host for a TV show with a lady lawmaker who said LGBT people are "a burden on society" because "they don't reproduce", and while the Japanese internet discussion was more concerned about the lady, her statements and why she chose to say that in that time and place, resetera and kotaku were focused on how the composer was in the same room as her and didn't condemn her (in fact he tried to change the topic as soon as possible), so he's guilty by association for that new crime.
So the solution was to try tarring anyone who associates with that composer as also guilty by association. First it was Square Enix's overseas branches, then it was bringing up their PS4 streaming restrictions that existed in other games already, a purity test over who bought DQXI used or not, fake controversies like C&Ds and ISP reports for the orchestral mod that never happened... and most damningly, the personal sexual life of Yuji Hori, and how Akira Toriyama is a "problematic" "tax evader".
The "guilt by association" stuff is really getting out of hand. I've seen so many arguments that veer into Hitler ate sugar trope territory, it's laughable.
 

JordanN

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WHAT. 13th Sentinel has been (basically) cancelled?!

The holy living fuck, Sony. You fuckin' pricks.
I'm reminded it was Jason Schreier who made this post on Neogaf that started the whole controversy. Who knew it would later become Sony's new policy on attacking Japanese developers?

 
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I don't know about you guys, but the creator of Kenshin was publicly revealed as a total creep. That's not an overreaction to me. If you have to draw a line somewhere, I'd draw it there. People wanting to avoid giving money to such a person, even indirectly, by buying Jump Force might sound harsh but makes sense. I am normally against cutting content, but this would qualify as a justifiable exception because a criminal is involved.

What about the fans of this character? Did you already make the choice for them all?

The creep in question served his sentence and paid a hefty fine, and is on a watch list by now and knows better than to re-offend.
He was already paid for his license's use in this game a lump sum.
The series is for all intents and purposes finished, even if the sequel series didn't go anywhere. It has its fans.

Toriko's author (his character is also in the game, with not a peep about it) did far worse than consumption of videos like Runori's did, he actually solicited real people. He served a longer jail term and was released, then one of the big three mangaka personally vouched for him to be given a second chance, which led to the existence of Toriko years later.
How many mangaka to boycott does this make? Three? What about all the other enablers we don't know of?
You might as well boycott the entire game while you're at it. I doubt Namco will drop Oda's One Piece anytime soon.

The way I see it, there's two aspects to your reply.
First, that you don't want personally to support a game with that character. That's your backlog choice and your own business.

Second, that you want no other players to ever get to play as that character, even if they want to. That's very concerning.
That comes off as a new battleground against the separation of art and artists (the only reason we don't have book burnings for Lovercraft books I guess?) which opens the door wide open for much more than unpersoning former criminals (legally speaking) to thought criminals as well.
You think your material support entitles you to demand for overriding other supporters for the game as well.
There's that moral grandstanding dopamine rush about controlling what others get to see and feeling like one solved a problem which is undeniable and obvious.

This situation is like the Casca's DLC in Berserk all over again except the content that's being cut couldn't even be called charitably "offensive".
 
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Senhua

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I'm reminded it was Jason Schreier who made this post on Neogaf that started the whole controversy. Who knew it would later become Sony's new policy on attacking Japanese developers?

Sadly Kamitani-san took the bait and responded:


Though latter he apologize:
"While the picture of the dwarfs was meant to be a lighthearted joke, after it became bigger than I thought it would, I reflected on the rashness of it. I am sorry. I have no hard feelings about the article"
 
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CatCouch

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I'm reminded it was Jason Schreier who made this post on Neogaf that started the whole controversy. Who knew it would later become Sony's new policy on attacking Japanese developers?

I feel like we, as a society, but particularly in our media, are losing an important understanding that words have meaning. What Schreier said here is wrong. It's objectively wrong, his views don't fit the definitions of the words he's using. I'm so saddened to see this is more common now than then.

What the hell happened to gaming/entertainment journalism? Is there anybody that can write without twisting things to fit an agenda that gets more irrational each month (this goes for both sides of this culture war)? It's obvious this kind of writing is damaging and harming people now. It harms artists, it harms games, it even harms people who are attracted to women big breasts, like that is wrong. This is not progress. This does not help grow an industry. It's intolerance, plain and simple. How did we move from pushing for more acceptance and representation of women and LGBT people to just banning games and labeling everyone things I don't even want to repeat? How can nobody correct things like this? It's so out of hand now it's appalling.

Even disregarding his lolicon comments the rest is intolerant as well. There's something deeply disturbing about how he twists the existence of an art form he doesn't like to mean "exclusionary gaming culture". So, to be more inclusive, we have to exclude? Sounds like hypocrisy coming from a bigot too full of himself to understand he's expressing bigoted views. I look up the definitions of words before I use them, too. Bigot fits his views here.
 

Madonis

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What about the fans of this character? Did you already make the choice for them all?

No, the point of my reply is that people can rationally think about a boycott or ask for the characters to be removed. It's not an obligation to do so, but the idea itself can be discussed.

To be quite clear, I believe the characters should be made DLC. That way, those who aren't OK with giving money to a criminal wouldn't have to pay for them and can still enjoy the main game. Of course, I know this is not likely to happen.

Let's not beat around the bush though...the sentence was very short and lacked proportionality. It was a slap on the wrist, not a real punishment. I didn't know anything about Toriko, but what you are saying makes me even less interested in that other author and his work. We are not talking about crimes of thought here. These are cases involving actions.

I think separation of art and artist is fine...as long as said artist is either dead or at least not a criminal.

For the record, I don't have any issues with Dragon Quest XI per se. There's no criminal act involved.
 
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petran79

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I don't know about you guys, but the creator of Kenshin was publicly revealed as a total creep. That's not an overreaction to me. If you have to draw a line somewhere, I'd draw it there. People wanting to avoid giving money to such a person, even indirectly, by buying Jump Force might sound harsh but makes sense. I am normally against cutting content, but this would qualify as a justifiable exception because a criminal is involved.

Netflix broadcasts the TV series though. Perhaps they werent informed and will pull it out.
 
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Let's not beat around the bush though...the sentence was very short and lacked proportionality.
That's a different question. It was at least a one year sentence and a big fine for illegal pornographic content possession, and he served it, along with other permanent social repercussions (that don't go far enough in your tastes, because the Japanese Jump monthly magazine didn't cancel it, and because Jump Force didn't try the series didn't exist).
You are arguing that the Japanese penal code for such crimes is too lenient and needs reform, that's a very different premise from your initial point... that characters should be memory-holed because of the deeds of their creators years later after the series concluded, and without any real "benefit" (he already got the lump sum from the character's appearances so you're not denying him any money).

I am very against your point on principle.

It's authoritarian, because you are trying to rob people of choice. You don't like it, so nobody else should be allowed to enjoy it any longer. The "DLC to make everyone comfortable" idea won't fool anyone, it's one way to make the content purge gradual and more acceptable as the DLC will inevitably get conveniently cancelled after some more kotaku articles (and since when was on-disc DLC an acceptable thing?)

It's also an imperialist point of view with very dangerous implications. Not unlike the US customs trying to deny entry to Canadian people based on their support for drug legal sales because federal US laws consider drugs a crime and these people by extents supporters of crimes. Or the French president's wife who dated him as a 17 year old, which is illegal in the US but within age of consent laws and acceptance in France. Here in this case not even that a crime took place is debated, but that the legal system is "wrong" which makes this person not a jailed then released criminal, but a fugitive criminal. Where to draw the line? Lots of Japanese art is drug-influenced. Yet outside of the US, drug-related offenses receive lenient punishments too of a few months to 1-2 years, versus 5 years of jail and a permanent record like it "should be". So many criminals who didn't receive due justice to account for.

It opens the door for sinister repressions of free speech. Legitimizes the position that whenever a content creator is jailed, no, even as little as the subject of a social media outrage, it's book burning time for all of his previously released works and scrubbing them from history. Because PR death by a thousand cuts and actual jail time to answer for their crimes just isn't enough, we need to go to the next level.
The Little Prince, a staple of children literature and as inoffensive as it could be, was written by a soldier who murdered countless people in French colonies. He was never judged for his crimes. Same goes for politicians with death counts by the millions, who still wrote various pieces of fiction still sold to this day. That's a lot of stuff to purge.
 
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Sadly Kamitani-san took the bait and responded:
That's a proper answer, even though it's wasted on Kotaku.
  • Gets accused of sexism
  • Over "excessive" female character fanservice
  • By journalists who think "content they feel demeans women and only women, fictional or real including fanservice, is sexism"
  • Developer thinks sexism is "unequal, unfair discrimination between men and women in treatment", as the dictionary definition states
  • Digs out concept art of his existing male characters with excessive fanservice to prove he is providing equal-opportunity fanservice for characters of both genders, which journalists won't have a problem with then if they're concerned about sexism
It follows the actual definition of sexism and is the perfect proof no "discrimination" took place here. It's handled with much more tact than personal insults like "14 year old horny teenager" or "homophobe" who "needs to be fired".
You can tell how effective it is since all Kotaku shit articles on the matter were about the feelings, and "did you assume my sexuality" and "woe is me the plight of male feminists to be accused of being homosexuals because we think women are human beings and hate sexism", zero addressing the buff gnomes in the game. But making it about ad hominems instead of the content in question is the level of discourse to be expected from Kotaku.
 
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JunkerWoland

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Despite a certain segment of players now needing every video game to be a homogenized safe space, I'd be legitimately surprised (and extremely saddened), if the Kenshin characters were messed with for the international release of Jump Forces. The series and characters seem to remain popular with the type of fans who one assumes are the target of this game, and I also don't see Namco Bandai wanting to publicly explain why Kenshin and Shishio are missing or relegated to some other unnecessary procurement method.

Trying to enjoy video games over the last few years has increasingly become a bitter experience. We went through the late 1980s, all the 1990s, and the early 2000s begging Japanese companies not to alter their games, now we have outrage mobs (and their media counterparts) demanding changes because something makes them uncomfortable. While rationally I know these are all fairly isolated cases, they unfortunately have tended to involve the types of products I favor, which makes it feel like the whole industry is constantly on fire.
 

petran79

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The Little Prince, a staple of children literature and as inoffensive as it could be, was written by a soldier who murdered countless people in French colonies. He was never judged for his crimes. Same goes for politicians with death counts by the millions, who still wrote various pieces of fiction still sold to this day. That's a lot of stuff to purge.

He was into reconnaisance missions mostly. His fragile health did not allow for more tense engagements. He was also shunned by de Gaulle as a collaborator and is believed to have committed suicide by diving his plane to the bottom of the sea, since no bullet holes were found on the wreckage deep down the sea.
His family did not like this turn of events at all
 

JunkerWoland

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Related to the Sony issue, Nora to Oujo to Noraneko Heart HD Version (which some might remember as the visual novel where giant rays of light were used to obscure artwork on the PS4) recently received a patch, softening some of the censorship on the PS4.

I don't want to fill the thread with potentially NSFW images, but the Gematsu article provides a good sampling: https://gematsu.com/2018/11/nora-to...r-ps4-scene-enhancement-patch-1-now-available.

What's interesting is that, besides cases where the original art was completely replaced (or altered to the point of essentially being a new image), there are instances of the altered images being tamer than even some of the scenes in Neko Para Vol. 1. My continued takeaway is that there is no actual policy on Sony's part, just arbitrary judgement calls, leaving developers with no clue on what they can actually include in their games.

On the upside, Switch owners of Nora to Oujo to Noraneko Heart HD Version apparently get a patch adding all the original replacement images from the PS4 version, as bonus content. What a strange time to be alive...
 
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Senhua

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On the upside, Switch owners of Nora to Oujo to Noraneko Heart HD Version apparently get a patch adding all the original replacement images from the PS4 version, as bonus content. What a strange time to be alive...
Well this is as I feared : in the future the multiplatform games will get parity deal by Sony to ensure no public outrage.
So if dev want to release at Sony platform, they need sign the deal : the content must same across all platform.
 
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JunkerWoland

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Well this is as I feared : in the future the multiplatform games will get parity deal by Sony to ensure no public outrage.
So if dev want to release at Sony platform, they need sign the deal : the content must same across all platform.
I think you might be misunderstanding. Scenes in the Switch version, as they currently exist, will remain the same, meaning no further alterations to the artwork; the developer is merely adding some new images to the CG section of the Switch game, as bonus content. For example, a censored panty shot in the PS4 version will remain uncensored on the Switch, even after the patch; the games will not have content parity (especially the PS4 release).

Having said that, I'm not dismissing the possibility of parity clauses; this, however, just doesn't appear to be such a situation.
 
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Madonis

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That's a different question. It was at least a one year sentence and a big fine for illegal pornographic content possession, and he served it, along with other permanent social repercussions (that don't go far enough in your tastes, because the Japanese Jump monthly magazine didn't cancel it, and because Jump Force didn't try the series didn't exist).
You are arguing that the Japanese penal code for such crimes is too lenient and needs reform, that's a very different premise from your initial point... that characters should be memory-holed because of the deeds of their creators years later after the series concluded, and without any real "benefit" (he already got the lump sum from the character's appearances so you're not denying him any money).

I feel you are misinterpreting my position, not only once but twice, so I am afraid that we are now entering into a circle of endless repetition. Since you respect free speech so much, you should respect the right of people to disagree with you about this topic. My position is that I can understand those who have been complaining.

A big fine for you and me. Probably not a big fine for him. Japan is quite bad at the whole "social repercussions" angle when it comes to this specific offense (ironically, sometimes they get more angry about lesser situations). It might be a different issue, but it is relevant. Once again...I respect choice, which is why I mentioned the DLC option. I don't know why you think it's about "fooling" someone. I honestly think it would be a good alternative. Furthermore, on-disc DLC has existed before and will continue to happen in the future. It's a possibility that would solve the problem, at least for most people.

It's funny you mention Canada, because I can see them arresting the RK creator at an airport if he had some of that illegal material on his laptop. Not all crimes are created equal. Drug use, as bad as it is, causes less harm. This specific crime involved buying and owning pornographic materials of real minors. Flesh and blood. That's wrong, period. It is not a thought crime, but one that directly ties into the exploitation of real human beings. The idea that you are equating this to book burning makes for amusing language, but isn't a reasonable comparison.

If the game comes out and nothing is changed, I won't scream or throw rocks at someone. But all the same, I wouldn't feel comfortable buying it. Nor would I get mad if other people do in fact want to boycott the game and tell the company why they did it. Just like I won't get mad at your purchase.

Netflix broadcasts the TV series though. Perhaps they werent informed and will pull it out.

I don't think they knew, since those contracts are signed well in advance, and maybe they still don't. It's not the most high profile of news and they probably don't monitor all anime-related news. Which doesn't mean other people shouldn't make up their own mind, one way or another.
 
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Senhua

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I think you might be misunderstanding. Scenes in the Switch version, as they currently exist, will remain the same, meaning no further alterations to the artwork; the developer is merely adding some new images to the CG section of the Switch game, as bonus content. For example, a censored panty shot in the PS4 version will remain uncensored on the Switch, even after the patch; the games will not have content parity (especially the PS4 release).

Having said that, I'm not dismissing the possibility of parity clauses; this, however, just doesn't appear to be such a situation.
Of course they cannot force the parity in the already released games without causing same outrage.
 
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And the petition lost signatures and has fallen below 10,000. I guess someone was using some bot to artificially inflate the numbers. Not cool... :/
 
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Well this is as I feared : in the future the multiplatform games will get parity deal by Sony to ensure no public outrage.
So if dev want to release at Sony platform, they need sign the deal : the content must same across all platform.

These deals already existed for Microsoft (and yes, Sony) and all the good they did in cases like this was for the port for the nitpicky console maker to be just skipped over.

In this case, the developers designed replacement CGs for their visual novel to replace the original CGs with god ray overdose for the PS4 version, but offered a patch for the Switch version to include both the original CGs and replacement CGs. That said there's cause for cynism that the developers didn't really have a choice in the matter and that the god ray CGs had to be replaced in a similar way modern console lot check sometimes allow bugs that would normally fail it as long as updates to fix those bugs come soon enough in the launch window, and developers are expected to uphold this commitment or face repercussions, either the withdrawal of the game from sale (this almost never happens but then again Super Seducer sets a precedent for a very similar case) or much more serious contractual legal sanctions.

It tries to save face for Sony with minimal real effort from them (instead passing the bucket to the developers) and ties with that Sony Europe statement that "it would be boring if all game versions were the same" that implies the censorship is new valid worthwhile content (very hard to rationalize that for white ink blots covering 70% of the screen) and consumers should "look forward" for this new content (you can see similar rationalizations for Fatal Frame V, where gravure model costumes essential to the horror plot "emotional trauma caused by that job" were replaced with Nintendo series cosplays you're supposed to "look forward" for, nevermind that it no longer makes sense -- not that the content cuts make much sense even from the feminist perspective) so they urge developers to create new content for the censored parts to "replace" them.

We know how well forcing developers to develop new exclusive content for a late, inferior, compromised console port worked for Microsoft's Xbox 360 and later the Xbox One, even in the US, their home market. Developers just ended up skipping the port altogether. Not that the new unpredictability of the console lot check makes it that much appealing anymore, even for games not primarily targeted by this "western standard", like horror, arcade, shooters and role-playing games very outside the "otaku wankfest" demographic this policy is "saving the world from".

We all know how console leaders went in Japan.

First it was the Famicom, the Super Famicom, then Nintendo had their moment of sheer retardedness where they started telling Japanese people they won't put the CD drive they're asking for, that they're incompetent developers that should be weeded out with obtuse to develop for hardware (and as it turned out, Nintendo's internal development teams were still not "incompetent" enough to cope with it), and that they have this announcement at Spaceworld of a "Dream Team" of developers that are all westerners. Unsurprisingly, Nintendo never really recovered from this, except with the Nintendo DS to some degree.
Sony had the whole support for them in the PS1 era (even with indie programs) and then PS2... then at some point something went really wrong with the PS3 with them never really listening to developer input with the Cell architecture. It made the HD transition much more brutal and expensive for traditionally mid-budget Japanese developers who preferred to support the PSP. There's no real replacement for that, the PS Vita having done major mistakes of its own, so developers flocked for mobile development, or otaku games on the PS Vita. A lot of the major third party support for the PS4 (Yakuza, Dragon Quest XI, Final Fantasy VII, Monster Hunter V/World, Street Fighter V) was directly bankrolled by Sony because it wouldn't have happened otherwise following these trends, but bankrolling can only take a console so far.

With Microsoft messing up their chances in all three console launches in Japan in various ways, what remained was Nintendo's Switch that shares a lot in common with handhelds (to drive the point home, it even reuses parts of the 3DS OS) but still provides a natural continuation of what Japanese developers were looking for, even discounting the otaku fanservice games they were doing to keep the lights on. It's no surprise they went out of their way to court those developers (D3Publisher does more than just Omega Labyrinth and Oneechanbara but the Simple series too, the developer for Omega Labyrinth was the same behind the Final Fantasy 3/4 remakes on DS, and so on...) It's very laughable how Sony is squandering their exclusivity on console VR in Japan, and whatever market position they bankrolled so hard, with policies such as making the certification process (even ignoring what kind of content gets cut) as inconvenient and money-wasting as possible for Japanese developers, and so obvious it's personal vendettas (ideological, even?) at play rather than anything well thought to secure a market position anywhere.

Even if Nintendo plans to scale down their laxer content policies down the line, it won't be for a while. They would never pass on this chance. Unlike Sega (who relaxed the Saturn censorship for a short while then reinstated it) they are courting those developers in more ways than just the content policy itself.
 

Senhua

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If Catherine ends up censored i am done with sony
We can compare the old content which I predict 99%, it will not censored but we are never know about the new content (is it created as intended by the developer?)
The same as the new Granblue game, code vein, god eater 3 etc

Who wants to play censored bingo?

Do not forget Yakuza 3 remaster : No way Sega censor the cross dresser mission because of Japan climate, it has anything to do with the new Sony policy.
 
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kunonabi

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Did the Yakuza 3 remaster already come out in Japan? The team has already said they were going to censor that stuff although I don't remember if they were just talking about the west or both territories. Once I heard they were gutting Yakuza 3 again I stopped paying much attention to the remasters.
 

Danjin44

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We can compare the old content which I predict 99%, it will not censored but we are never know about the new content (is it created as intended by the developer?)
The same as the new Granblue game, code vein, god eater 3 etc


Do not forget Yakuza 3 remaster : No way Sega censor the cross dresser mission because of Japan climate, it has anything to do with the new Sony policy.
I will be really sad if Catherine gets censored. I hope Atlus doesn't let that happen.
 
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Senhua

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I will be really sad if Catherine gets censored. I hope Atlus doesn't let that happen.
Yup same here. I hope for the same too.

Did the Yakuza 3 remaster already come out in Japan? The team has already said they were going to censor that stuff although I don't remember if they were just talking about the west or both territories. Once I heard they were gutting Yakuza 3 again I stopped paying much attention to the remasters.
Yup released approximate at the same time with Yakuza 2 kiwami in the west (august).
It censored in all region : "to-meet-todays-(westerner)moral-values"
This is the link for the interview

And guess what (according by MCS):
[PS4] Yakuza: Kiwami 2 (Limited Edition Included) (Sega, 12/07/17) – 131,931 (New)
[PS4] Yakuza 3 (Sega, 08/09/18) – 26,047 (New)
I know Yakuza 3 only a remaster not remake but the point still stands
 
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SoulChamber

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Basically, Sony used indies to fill in for the first 2 years after the PS4's launch because there were no games ready (I think there were even third parties outright admitting that they were hesitant, because they didn't know how the new gen would play out). Then, after Sony got their pipeline in order, they dropped indies fairly harshly, IMHO.

Not sure why Sony management didn't just say "why can't we have both?" and continued support for indies and being "AAA" friendly. I know one German indie dev and last time they spoke to me, they were saying that Nintendo are the easiest to deal with nowadays (But Microsoft still appear to have a better toolchain, if you like their ecosystem).
It's very shortsighted on their part. Indies require so little investment yet many of our breakout hits from the last decade have been indies.

Sony will regret ditching indie gaming later on, especially as Indie gaming are getting incredibly popular on the Switch (& they're even getting physical releases on that platform, too).
 

kunonabi

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Lol at them just cutting the missions entirely. It's amazing that the original Japanese release of Yakuza 3 is still the only one worth playing.
 
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Appabend's second video discussing about Sony's censorship. He thinks that there's a part of the policy where developers are prohibited from talking about the censorship is hyperbole:

 

CatCouch

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I'm going to have to watch all these videos soon. I very much like Appabend, I even contribute to his Patreon! It's good to see more YouTubers picking this up. The Quartering is fairly large, too. Not a fave of mine but I do watch (I'm pretty sure the Quartering has mentioned the Senran Kagura censorship already, too).
 
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Lol at them just cutting the missions entirely. It's amazing that the original Japanese release of Yakuza 3 is still the only one worth playing.
One of the Yakuza re-releases (don't know if it's 3, 4 or 5) also changed one character's voice actor and likeliness because... he was into drugs, or something. Had the games been released just two or three years after the controversy about him, it would have been the same as the original but that's outrage culture for you.

While it could be attributed to Sony's policies directly, the official excuse about social mores might be their motive.
One case comes to mind, the Go Go Ackman series, first as a manga, then an anime short, then a game. There was this character called Josephine Yamamoto... This case is weird because it goes across mediums.



For context: the series is about a demon child called Ackman who's harvesting souls for the Demon Lord to get money, with a certain angel called Tenchi trying to stop him with artillery weapons and hired assassins, but in the process doing so much collateral damage and murdering civilians Ackman has his human-killing job cut for him. The series had a very short serialization as a manga, followed by an animated OVA (that cut much of the violence against civilians but kept murdered assassins) and three videogame adaptations (that omitted most of the murdering) that continued the story on the Super Famicom and were handled by Branpesto, who were used to ports from PC-98 games with erotic elements to the SNES.

As one of his schemes to defeat Ackman, Tenchi hires a strip dancer (who even says "fanservice! fanservice!" as part of the routine) who goes by the name Josephine Yamamoto, who gradually strips in front of the flustered demon until he almost passes out once the dancer's topless boobs are visible... then regains his spirits once a dick is visible. Tenchi then remarks Josephine was a "new-half" (tranny) and "I knew the price was too good for the service" all along before being punched by Ackman who then tells the "noisy dancer to GTFO".
The Super Famicom adaptation mentions none of this, neither shows any stripping, just "How come you weren't seduced by her charms?" "She is just not my type" "But I paid so much for her service..."

Considering this happened in 1993, when the CERO didn't even exist in the same form as today and Japanese games got away with much more profanity and politically incorrect content that would get altered in later domestic rereleases, the Yakuza 3 situation might be self-censorship (meaning initiated by Sega to avoid controversy) not necessarily censorship under Sony pressure.
 

petran79

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Considering this happened in 1993, when the CERO didn't even exist in the same form as today and Japanese games got away with much more profanity and politically incorrect content that would get altered in later domestic rereleases, the Yakuza 3 situation might be self-censorship (meaning initiated by Sega to avoid controversy) not necessarily censorship under Sony pressure.

Princess Maker got also a SNES release titled Legend of Another World, but they removed lewd content and redesigned everything. It was essentially a new game. I think this is preferrable than porting exactly the same game and altering scenes here and there.
 

SoulChamber

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I genuinely don't think Atlus gives two fucks about Sony or whatever random infant has to say about two teenagers having romantic interest in one another in a game about teenagers in a high school.

I would be very surprised if they changed anything in the next Persona game.

Or they can just simply go Nintendo & PC only & not have to worry about doing that shit.
 
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donutkirby

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That's a proper answer, even though it's wasted on Kotaku.
  • Gets accused of sexism
  • Over "excessive" female character fanservice
  • By journalists who think "content they feel demeans women and only women, fictional or real including fanservice, is sexism"
  • Developer thinks sexism is "unequal, unfair discrimination between men and women in treatment", as the dictionary definition states
  • Digs out concept art of his existing male characters with excessive fanservice to prove he is providing equal-opportunity fanservice for characters of both genders, which journalists won't have a problem with then if they're concerned about sexism
It follows the actual definition of sexism and is the perfect proof no "discrimination" took place here. It's handled with much more tact than personal insults like "14 year old horny teenager" or "homophobe" who "needs to be fired".
You can tell how effective it is since all Kotaku shit articles on the matter were about the feelings, and "did you assume my sexuality" and "woe is me the plight of male feminists to be accused of being homosexuals because we think women are human beings and hate sexism", zero addressing the buff gnomes in the game. But making it about ad hominems instead of the content in question is the level of discourse to be expected from Kotaku.
I remember that debacle. Schreier deliberately misinterpreted Kamitani's point in drawing that image by making it seem like he was a homophobe when he clearly drew that image to counter the narrative that he only likes drawing sexy women and views them as objects. Unfortunately he apologized because the homophobe angle took root in people's minds due to Schreier being a snake.
 

JunkerWoland

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The manufactured controversy around the artwork in Dragon's Crown was really the height of absurdity. At some point, you had a handful claiming the elf was sexist, because somehow they misinterpreted her design as not having pants. There were also the lovely fabrications of how people would no longer be able to play the game, because they had a young daughter/mother/grandmother/aunt/female Cocker Spaniel named Sandy.

Mind you, I see nothing wrong with not wanting to play the game, because of its artwork. The oppression/discrimination fantasies some developed around it were just rather ridiculous and overshadowed the biggest issue: not being able to either change or turn off Rannie's god-damn voice.
 
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sol_bad

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Whoever was saying that "controversial" content can just be added as DLC?
Fuck no. It is essentially censorship no matter how you cut it. How about, if this "controversial" content offends you, just don't play the game? You really want to play the game? Then accept it for what it fucking is.

There is shit out there that offends me. The descriptions for A Serbian Film for example, they repulse me. I am not calling for the film to be fucking censored, im just not watching it and letting the people interested enjoy the film.
I won't lie, I am curious about the film but I'm not calling for it to be censored just for my sensibilities. If I ever grow the courage, then I'll watch it. Until then, I'll avoid it.
 
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Whoever was saying that "controversial" content can just be added as DLC?
Fuck no. It is essentially censorship no matter how you cut it. How about, if this "controversial" content offends you, just don't play the game? You really want to play the game? Then accept it for what it fucking is.

There is shit out there that offends me. The descriptions for A Serbian Film for example, they repulse me. I am not calling for the film to be fucking censored, im just not watching it and letting the people interested enjoy the film.
I won't lie, I am curious about the film but I'm not calling for it to be censored just for my sensibilities. If I ever grow the courage, then I'll watch it. Until then, I'll avoid it.

I think that film is illegal in many countries and its deserved since it shows child rape and other horrifying stuff and i hope all the people involved in that film gets arrested. what we are talking about here is a cartoon girl in a bikini getting censored which is dumb since no one will see this and gets traumatized about seeing a bikini. but your example is extreme since the film you mentioned could leave permanent scars in your mind that will ruin you for the rest of your life, so that film should absolutely be censored since it cause real damage to people.
 
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A slow news day, but some remarkable happenings:
  • Resetera advocates against violent videogames. Relying on a suspicious study, they claim a correlation between games with violence and gun violence in them, and players to be more likely to be against gun control. The angle resetera is interested in is as much the violence as that videogames "evangelize" some political undercurrents, and that to "fix" this problem less of those games need to be made, and more of games with a blatant political slant for the "correct" political position need to be fed to the mainstream.
  • Hip-hop dancer (a medium known for iteration and the heavy reliance on sampling) has a dance very similar to one he "popularized" on a youtube video, used as a taunt in Fortnite, so he sues Epic to cash in hoping to enforce a new and potentially disastrous copyright law precedent, that dancing moves can be copyrighted. With all the consequences this implies for all creative mediums on any sort of body choreography. Resetera cheers, hoping he wins and that this precedent is enshrined, or that if he loses that he gets paid anyways for PR reasons. The reason is that it was "cultural appropriation". Leave the sinister copyright laws for one moment and just think about it. They want anything that could be construed as "cultural appropriation" to be outright banned from videogames, involving the judicial system, fines and jail terms if need be.
 
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sol_bad

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I think that film is illegal in many countries and its deserved since it shows child rape and other horrifying stuff and i hope all the people involved in that film gets arrested. what we are talking about here is a cartoon girl in a bikini getting censored which is dumb since no one will see this and gets traumatized about seeing a bikini. but your example is extreme since the film you mentioned could leave permanent scars in your mind that will ruin you for the rest of your life, so that film should absolutely be censored since it cause real damage to people.

No, it absolutely should not be censored. Nothing should be censored for fairies. Just don't watch it, read it or play it if it offends you. That's why I chose Serbian Film as my example, it is extreme but it still shouldn't be censored.
 

Senhua

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Oct 14, 2015
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A slow news day, but some remarkable happenings:
  • Resetera advocates against violent videogames.
Is it cute when that thread since yesterday only generated 3 pages while something against their political agenda can generate much higher traffic.
Also worth to note that majority of the poster also still in the fence about this issue: "more variety and detailed study required" while something like sexist can be banned outright. Lol at that hypocryte Yankee.
They all reminded me to Far Cry 5 antagonist craziness behaviour.
 
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CatCouch

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Is it cute when that thread since yesterday only generated 3 pages while something against their political agenda can generate much higher traffic.
Also worth to note that majority of the poster also still in the fence about this issue: "more variety and detailed study required" while something like sexist can be banned outright. Lol at that hypocryte Yankee.
They all reminded me to Far Cry 5 antagonist craziness behaviour.
I decided to pop in since I rarely do and I saw Gamergate come up more times than I can count within 5 minutes of browsing in multiple topics (YongYea/Schreier and Gematsu/Sony regulations topics, to be exact). I don't think I've seen that word once this whole year until now.

I also see "gamers rise up" being used in a similar derogatory manner. What is that? I've never heard of it and I spend significant amounts of time on boards full of angry gamers ranting about things like censorship. How could I have never heard of it if it's as big an issue as Resetera is making it?

Disagreements seem to be a lot easier to handle here. I've disagreed with people, even on personal political matters, on Gaf and ended up still finding common ground and respect. I feel Resetera has an issue of not looking at it's own toxic problems. All communities have them, most communities acknowledge this. I don't see that when I browse there. Don't get me wrong, there are more reasonable posts there than not, but there is quite a bit of hostility and derogatory hate posts that don't get warned. It's weird to see Gamergate used over and over with no one getting hit for it but I saw someone banned for using "SJW" just now for "use of a cultural pejorative".
 
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This time, another case of old-school censorship from Marvel Vs. Capcom.


Marvel asked Capcom to remove one of the moves of a joke character called Norimaro, where he shoves his finger in the posterior of his opponents and throws them, the infamous "kanchou throw". The move never made it to any released version, not even the internal files (similarly to the crosses in Ducktales' leaked prerelease versions). Then the character was removed entirely from all non-Japanese versions, despite all lines being already translated.

There was another case of censorship for Capcom's JoJo Bizarre Adventure, specifically a child transformation debuff that could apply for most characters, including a certain barely dressed female character, but that probably had to do with legal differences between Japan and the rest of the world.
 
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petran79

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I think that film is illegal in many countries and its deserved since it shows child rape and other horrifying stuff and i hope all the people involved in that film gets arrested. what we are talking about here is a cartoon girl in a bikini getting censored which is dumb since no one will see this and gets traumatized about seeing a bikini. but your example is extreme since the film you mentioned could leave permanent scars in your mind that will ruin you for the rest of your life, so that film should absolutely be censored since it cause real damage to people.

Dolls were used instead of children and even if they were present:
https://www.indiewire.com/2011/10/w...dvd-and-yes-the-movie-deserves-its-rep-51495/

'' Of course, we were careful with our work with children. Their parents were present on the set every time. We shot their shots separately from the violent scenes, which we edited in later.''

But his points are relevant to the discussion:
What do you make of the child pornography charges lobbied at the Sitges Film Festival for screening your film? Were you surprised or did you expect this kind of fallout?

I expected people to say bad things about the film. That was unavoidable because there are a lot of bad things in this world and people want to be protected from them. The film and art today are mixed up with those things and those feelings. Movies are not free anymore. You cannot send some messages even if they are good ones. They don’t care about the essence of the film and its context. They’re always concerned about the stuff on the surface. Is there any violence? Is there any nudity? It’s a very strange and mixed up situation.

On the one side, it’s very funny that someone can still find movies and editing so mysterious, like some kind of devil’s work. Of course, on the other hand, it’s very sad. It proves my film was right. One of the thing the film’s saying is that we’re not living in the free world. The way the film was made also represents our resistance to political correctness, to fascism. These kind of reactions are fun, interesting, stupid and very, very sad. It’s evidence that we’re not free people.
 
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I expected people to say bad things about the film. That was unavoidable because there are a lot of bad things in this world and people want to be protected from them. The film and art today are mixed up with those things and those feelings. Movies are not free anymore. You cannot send some messages even if they are good ones. They don’t care about the essence of the film and its context. They’re always concerned about the stuff on the surface. Is there any violence? Is there any nudity? It’s a very strange and mixed up situation.

Ok i will bite, what is the message this film wanted to send when they showed a newborn baby getting raped?
And dont tell me the message is to tell people how fucked up this world is, we already knew that .

I think this example will also hurt what we are doing here, SJWs will point at this thread and say: "hey look at these anti-censorship people defending a film about children being raped, sick people!"

So can we please just talk about video games censorship and focus on what is important here.