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Opinion Cringe Game Dev Video game graphics vs cgi

Dec 1, 2018
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So as were about to move towards tge next generation of gaming new realtime techniques will be implemented and ofcourse the old techniques will simply be improved and magnified, the usual more poly counts, bigger textures, more physics in general more data per frame.

So the big question ive aleays asked everytime i hear about a new generation is incoming was and is still always, "can it look like cgi? So i took some comparisons from avatar 2009 and beowulf 2007 films vs hellblade 2 and some current gen titles....
My question today is yes are next gen consoles going to look cgi? Cause current gen tried its best to be honest and it nearly got there or are we going to see the same old story again, whereby well still be nearly there?






























 
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billyxci

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no. consoles will always be lagging behind.

the thing about CGI in movies is that it doesn't matter if it doesn't render in real time. frames can take hours or maybe days to render. that just shows you how much more intensive and detailed visuals are in movies.

the best looking game shot here is that Senua one and that was probably not rendered in real time. sure it might use the game engine but it's likely that those kind of visuals simply wouldn't be possible in real time.
 

Hawke502

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no. consoles will always be lagging behind.

the thing about CGI in movies is that it doesn't matter if it doesn't render in real time. frames can take hours or maybe days to render. that just shows you how much more intensive and detailed visuals are in movies.

the best looking game shot here is that Senua one and that was probably not rendered in real time. sure it might use the game engine but it's likely that those kind of visuals simply wouldn't be possible in real time.
Phil Spencer said that was in real time
 

DESTROYA

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People tend to favor graphics way too much over gameplay, I think games look great now so I’d rather see consoles look into improving performance over making them look more photo realistic.
 

Mista

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People tend to favor graphics way too much over gameplay, I think games look great now so I’d rather see consoles look into improving performance over making them look more photo realistic.
I never understood the obsession. I mean for casuals I understand but for people that’s deep in gaming?
 
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manuels

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i dont get why people make a big deal out of senua 2 it really doesn't look all that different to what we get now and in terms of facial animation you can do that already
just turn up the effect double to make it look as dumb as it does in the trailer.
 

psorcerer

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People tend to favor graphics way too much over gameplay, I think games look great now so I’d rather see consoles look into improving performance over making them look more photo realistic.

Oh, god... game's performance nowdays is dragged down mostly by gameplay.
Gameplay code is the main reason why Jaguar cores are "weak".
 
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DESTROYA

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Yeah me either I mean look at some of the recent games released like RDR2,GOW and even going back to Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn and Forza 4 and still think they look amazing.
There are things to improve for sure but personally think there are other areas more important areas that need improvement.
 
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nikolino840

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no. consoles will always be lagging behind.

the thing about CGI in movies is that it doesn't matter if it doesn't render in real time. frames can take hours or maybe days to render. that just shows you how much more intensive and detailed visuals are in movies.

the best looking game shot here is that Senua one and that was probably not rendered in real time. sure it might use the game engine but it's likely that those kind of visuals simply wouldn't be possible in real time.
Careful...this mean that even tlou 3 or gow 2 are worse then that trailer
 
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manuels

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Depending on what you use as comparison gaming has already beat cgi movies from the past.. its always behind current cgi movies and thats understandable lol
 
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Jan 29, 2019
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Most of what you see on the screen in big budget movies is CGI these days (even the actors sometimes)...

Unless you only watch Tom Cruise movies.

That being said, I hope water simulation (especially interaction) gets better, ever since they started using pixel shaders all we have is shiny surfaces, games like God of War 2 on the PS2 (not on the PS3) had actual water ripples when you walked in a pool of water, as in the surface deformed around Kratos... This is not nearly as advanced as what we have seen in movies for a while now, but in many ways more convincing than what we have seen in games for a long time.

They look "good enough" already... But they will look better anyway.
 
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Ar¢tos

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Phil Spencer said that was in real time
Real time "in-engine" (meaning it could be running on a high end pc) at 24fps at less than 4k res.
Basically to run it at 30fps at 4k on final hardware at the same quality it would have to be prerendered.
 
Dec 1, 2018
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no. consoles will always be lagging behind.

the thing about CGI in movies is that it doesn't matter if it doesn't render in real time. frames can take hours or maybe days to render. that just shows you how much more intensive and detailed visuals are in movies.

the best looking game shot here is that Senua one and that was probably not rendered in real time. sure it might use the game engine but it's likely that those kind of visuals simply wouldn't be possible in real time.
Senua has got to be real time or itll be stupid to call series x next gen and my point is, i dont mind if cgi took years to render a frame what im interested in is if games are visually close or look like because inevatbly games would be identical to cgi
 
Dec 1, 2018
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Real time "in-engine" (meaning it could be running on a high end pc) at 24fps at less than 4k res.
Basically to run it at 30fps at 4k on final hardware at the same quality it would have to be prerendered.
Nope he said it was running realtime in engine on the series x not on a high end pc and it was 24 fps 4k
 
Dec 1, 2018
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Most of what you see on the screen in big budget movies is CGI these days (even the actors sometimes)...

Unless you only watch Tom Cruise movies.

That being said, I hope water simulation (especially interaction) gets better, ever since they started using pixel shaders all we have is shiny surfaces, games like God of War 2 on the PS2 (not on the PS3) had actual water ripples when you walked in a pool of water, as in the surface deformed around Kratos... This is not nearly as advanced as what we have seen in movies for a while now, but in many ways more convincing than what we have seen in games for a long time.

They look "good enough" already... But they will look better anyway.
Water ripples have been in ps2 have been done in ps3 and 360 have been done in xbone and ps4 latest to do so is death stranding, this isnt major for me its simply a vertex shader mesh with collision detection, im more interested in volumetric fluids.

By the way im guessing games are simply there and by next gen it will get better im sure well atleast reach avatar 2009 and beowulf levels of cgi, i mean look at this... . This is running at 30fps 1440p on a consumer gaming pc possibly on a 1080ti
 

Ar¢tos

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Nope he said it was running realtime in engine on the series x not on a high end pc and it was 24 fps 4k
Digital Foundry disagrees...
it is mastered at just 24 frames per second and the actual resolution of the rendered frame between the cinematic black bars is 3840x1608: so a little more than 74 per cent of a 'real' 4K in spatial resolution and at 80 per cent of 30fps. All together, that is 60 per cent of the amount of pixels pushed per second compared to 4K30 - and something that's decidedly easier to render than you may expect.
 
Dec 1, 2018
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??? Real time gameplay will never catch up to Cgi, ever.
As time goes on real time graphics get better along side with cgi.
Realtime can atleast catch cgi of the 2000s and before, remember nowadays you can even render raytraced scenes in cg applications ain realtime back in my days this was impossible i had to sleep all day waiting for a frame to render and nowadays they do it in seconds!
 
Dec 1, 2018
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Always behind..Is pre rendered and modeled by massives workstations
Here a 2002 movie cgi character

Honestly speaking smuggle or whatever you call him is an easy character to render in realtime even on a ps4 its reallly easy to render one character on a simple scene youd just focus all gpu and memory resources on one character
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
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Phil Spencer said that was in real time
The fact it is 24fps already shows it is a pre-rendered video.

Of course the video could be created in engine in an actual Xbox One Série X hardware in a lab.

But the video showed is definitively just a video pre-rendered and not real time render.
 
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Dec 1, 2018
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The fact it is 24fps already shows it is a pre-rendered video.

Of course the video could be created in engine in an actual Xbox One Série X hardware in a lab.

But the video showed is definitively just a video pre-rendered and not real time render.
digital foundry did a research and saw that it was realtime and not prerenderd
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
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digital foundry did a research and saw that it was realtime and not prerenderd
They said they were not convinced it was real-time.
Looks the opposite of what are you saying... spin?

“And while we're not exactly convinced it is running in real-time as such, there are imperfections in the presentation that seemingly rule out a pure CG asset.”

“Our gut feeling here is that the Hellblade asset is exactly what it says it is - in-engine and likely not real-time.”
 
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Dec 1, 2018
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They said they were not convinced it was real-time.

Looks the oppositeof what are you saying...

“And while we're not exactly convinced it is running in real-time as such, there are imperfections in the presentation that seemingly rule out a pure CG asset.”

“Our gut feeling here is that the Hellblade asset is exactly what it says it is - in-engine and likely not real-time.”
They did 2 videos one on series x and another one a breakdown of hellblade 2 and they said it was realtime

 
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ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
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They did 2 videos one on series x and another one a breakdown of hellblade 2 and they said it was realtime
Nope.

They did an analysis of the trailer and said it is most likely not real time... you can watch the video again.
Or read the article.
 
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ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
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Maybe thats your created digital foundry at ur kitchen!
?

You said something DF did no say lol
I have nothing to do with DF.

Edit - Did you watch the video you quoted? They even go depth and says Phil never said it was real time but it was added by Gamespot... Phil said it was in-engine render.
 
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Bootzilla

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Already I think they look better than a lot of the CGI from years past, just subjectively. But obviously anything you can do in real time you can do a lot better pre-rendered so it'll never stack up to contemporary CGI.
 
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?

You said something DF did no say lol
I have nothing to do with DF.

Edit - Did you watch the video you quoted? They even go depth and says Phil never said it was real time but it was added by Gamespot... Phil said it was in-engine render.
I watched the whole video and digital foundry said yes it was realtime because they found rasterised artefacts, by the way itll be stupid if not ms will be the stupidest of the stupidest companies since ever to come up revealing series x with a hellblade demo that wasnt realtime and if next gen isnt capable of such graphics then its pointless to even have next gen consoles....

Theres always a problem when new consoles are announced first they deny their capabilities a few months ago people said theres no way next gen consoles would do raytracing, 2 years ago they said 4k is impossible amd now the xbox one x does it, they also said no way next gen will be on par with rtx cards and oush 10+ teraflops which theyve been announced to do, and they said no way theyll do 8k and voila both sony and ms say theyll do....

This is the same old story people where in denial of the ps4 they said utll only be 2-4 gb ram and ut came out with 8gb gddr5 and the games they revealed where graphically more detailed than any pc game available at the time, this is another repeat of that people will deny its human nature and digital foundry isnt an exception.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
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I watched the whole video and digital foundry said yes it was realtime because they found rasterised artefacts, by the way itll be stupid if not ms will be the stupidest of the stupidest companies since ever to come up revealing series x with a hellblade demo that wasnt realtime and if next gen isnt capable of such graphics then its pointless to even have next gen consoles....

Theres always a problem when new consoles are announced first they deny their capabilities a few months ago people said theres no way next gen consoles would do raytracing, 2 years ago they said 4k is impossible amd now the xbox one x does it, they also said no way next gen will be on par with rtx cards and oush 10+ teraflops which theyve been announced to do, and they said no way theyll do 8k and voila both sony and ms say theyll do....

This is the same old story people where in denial of the ps4 they said utll only be 2-4 gb ram and ut came out with 8gb gddr5 and the games they revealed where graphically more detailed than any pc game available at the time, this is another repeat of that people will deny its human nature and digital foundry isnt an exception.
No lol

They said they strong believe it was not real time.
They were very clear about that in the video.

They even go depth saying Phil said it was in-engine not real-time... you know what other game had an in-engine trailer? Uncharted 4.

I’m not even discussing the quality of the render because it has no next-gen feature at all.
 
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Dec 1, 2018
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No lol

They said they strong believe it was not real time.
They were very clear about that in the video.

They even go depth saying Phil said it was in-engine not real-time... you know what other game had an in-engine trailer? Uncharted 4.

I’m not even discussing the quality of the render because it has no next-gen feature at all.
They showed 2 videos you havent watched the second one
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
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They showed 2 videos you havent watched the second one
C’mon your videos didn’t back up your claims... the opposite.
They are very clear about very likely not being real-time.

You can’t spin that much with your own videos giving opposite evidence to what you say lol

PS. Something crossed my mind... can you proper listen English? Because there is no way to say they said it is real-time if you watched their videos.
 
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Dec 1, 2018
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No lol

They said they strong believe it was not real time.
They were very clear about that in the video.

They even go depth saying Phil said it was in-engine not real-time... you know what other game had an in-engine trailer? Uncharted 4.

I’m not even discussing the quality of the render because it has no next-gen feature at all.
What digital foundry didnt believe was the amount of geometry on screen without poppin or culling visible and this led them to say it might be pre rendered but giben the rumours that nextgen consoles will be using proprietary ssds as vram plus the fast gddr6 vram available this is going to be normal because they can simply load the whole game into the fast reram or 3dxpoint ssd, the whole game will be in memory, this was shown in a demo with amds radeon ssg, a gpu soldered with an ssd they could load billions of prolygons per frame something that was impossible with any gpu that wasnt soldered with a ssd

Heres the ssg tech demo.... A 250 billion polygon data set loaded realtime

 
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ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
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What digital foundry didnt believe was the amount of geometry on screen without poppin or culling visible and this led them to say it might be pre rendered but giben the rumours that nextgen consoles will be using proprietary ssds as vram plus the fast gddr6 vram available this is going to be normal because they can simply load the whole game into the fast reram or 3dxpoint ssd, the whole game will be in memory, this was shown in a demo with amds radeon ssg, a gpu soldered with an ssd they could load billions of prolygons per frame something that was impossible with any gpu that wasnt soldered with a ssd

Heres the ssg tech demo.... A 250 billion polygon data set loaded realtime

Unbelievable.
Hellblade II Xbox Series X Trailer Likely In-Engine, But Not Real Time Says Digital Foundry

Spinning what DF said are not cool bro.
 
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Dec 1, 2018
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What digital foundry didnt believe was the amount of geometry on screen without poppin or culling visible and this led them to say it might be pre rendered but giben the rumours that nextgen consoles will be using proprietary ssds as vram plus the fast gddr6 vram available this is going to be normal because they can simply load the whole game into the fast reram or 3dxpoint ssd, the whole game will be in memory, this was shown in a demo with amds radeon ssg, a gpu soldered with an ssd they could load billions of prolygons per frame something that was impossible with any gpu that wasnt soldered with a ssd

Heres the ssg tech demo.... A 250 billion polygon data set loaded realtime

Go to 2.40 second mark
 

Joe T.

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They might be able to achieve scenes that look like Hollywood caliber CGI in some games and come nowhere close to it in others, all depending on how you're looking at it. If you're using the most visually impressive, action-packed scenes from movies as some sort of basis then absolutely not, that's probably two generations of consoles away at the soonest, assuming they're still around.

10+ years from now we'll probably all have quantum computing on our minds as it nears commercial viability for the masses, but hopefully software tools that make game development easier and less resource-intensive help narrow the gap before then.
 
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Dec 1, 2018
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They might be able to achieve scenes that look like Hollywood caliber CGI in some games and come nowhere close to it in others, all depending on how you're looking at it. If you're using the most visually impressive, action-packed scenes from movies as some sort of basis then absolutely not, that's probably two generations of consoles away at the soonest, assuming they're still around.

10+ years from now we'll probably all have quantum computing on our minds as it nears commercial viability for the masses, but hopefully software tools that make game development easier and less resource-intensive help narrow the gap before then.
Quantum computing is far fetched its another gimmick like nuclear fusion i wouldnt put my hopes on that, on the other hand nowadays home pcs normal pcs can now render in seconds and realtime in 3d applications like maya, blender and ue4 this wasnt possible just 10 years ago i myself gad to wait days to render a frame bk in the days and now even games do raytracing at 60 fps, i think were not far away from cgi,

Assuming those ssds are used as ram avatar graphics wont be unachievable in ps5 im sure

Avatar film in 2009 used 1 petabyte of data and flight simulator 2020 is using 2 petabytes of data!