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[DeepEnigma]

you’re really coming off as the poster child for this neo

It's already starting with EVs.

 

[KyoZz]

If you honestly think this way you're objectively a sociopath.

Ok I'm gonna pass on the insult but man, take it easy ok?

And yeah, why do you care? Do you get a % every time a game is sold by Nintendo? I don't think so. So why do you care if someone who lives thousands of miles from you is playing a game they haven't paid for? Did the latest Zelda make bad numbers?
Tell me one Switch game, JUST ONE, who suffered from piracy on PC. I'm waiting.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I wish Nintendo would just come out with a new system already and put the Switch out to Pasture. Ive not bought a new game on it since Splatoon 3.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Can performance on Switch afford to take this hit? It’s already bad.

 

[Topher]

That’s where you’re mistaken: it’s not your media: you’re buying a license to use it, and what you’re doing is in breach of that license.

Everyone here needs to be in firm agreement that what you are doing IS harmful- no exceptions. You’re parroting the same pernicious disinformation that I discussed in my original post: that there’s some legit purpose to hacking Nintendo or Amazon products. There isn’t: it’s criminal computer abuse, period. There’s nothing wrong with the Kindle user experience that would justify the illegal hack.

Just not true. There is nothing "harmful" with someone who backs up media from a hacked Switch and plays that backup file via emulator on another device. That is completely legal behavior as long as the person owns that media. This is established law in the US. If you personally think it is harmful then believe what you want, but no, I'm sorry, but no one needs to be in "firm agreement" with what you are saying.

 

[Trogdor1123]

That seems borderline illegal to block it from being used on pc through emulation

 

[LazyParrot]

“Even if a game is protected against piracy on its PC version, the version released on Nintendo Switch can be emulated from day one and played on PC, therefore bypassing the strong protections offered on the PC version,” the company says. “This can happen with any of the numerous games available on Nintendo Switch.

Literally a solution to a problem that does not exist.

 

[lughnasadh123]

Leave it to Nintendo to take measures to stop losing sales while ignore those that gain them. I'd argue most want a legit way to play on PC and quite a few would even double dip.

 

[64bitmodels]

Literally a solution to a problem that does not exist.

It does happen. Persona 5 Royal on PC was hard to crack thanks to denuvo so people looking to pirate just emulated the Switch version.

which, again, wouldn't be an issue if the switch was actually up to date and had GOOD FUCKING HARDWARE.

 

[Sintoid]

So it's probably going to cause performance issues. But of course, that Denuvo will claim there is no problem.

As I supposed

Does the pope shit in the woods? Is a bear catholic?

Sometimes and Someone

 

[Sleepwalker]

Leave it to Nintendo to take measures to stop losing sales while ignore those that gain them. I'd argue most want a legit way to play on PC and quite a few would even double dip.

No man, every single person is a pirate unless proven otherwise. Everyone would steal from stores if they could. According to the 2 guys in this thread anyway.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Yay, one more notch to not actually owning your shit

Lets celebrate together in harmony

 

[OCL]

Fuck Nintendo

 

[IFireflyl]

That’s where you’re mistaken: it’s not your media: you’re buying a license to use it, and what you’re doing is in breach of that license.

Everyone here needs to be in firm agreement that what you are doing IS harmful- no exceptions. You’re parroting the same pernicious disinformation that I discussed in my original post: that there’s some legit purpose to hacking Nintendo or Amazon products. There isn’t: it’s criminal computer abuse, period. There’s nothing wrong with the Kindle user experience that would justify the illegal hack.

Very few people are going to be in firm agreement with you, because your take is that of a clown or a CEO. I don't care if you disagree with me. I bought my media. I am going to use it however I want, as long as how I use it doesn't harm others. There is zero harm in me removing DRM on my content as long as I am not distributing said content.

 

[LazyParrot]

It does happen. Persona 5 Royal on PC was hard to crack thanks to denuvo so people looking to pirate just emulated the Switch version.

which, again, wouldn't be an issue if the switch was actually up to date and had GOOD FUCKING HARDWARE.

I'm sure it does happen. Every Switch game is going to be emulated by someone, even if it's just to test for emulator compatibility.

But is it happening to a degree where it actually poses a problem to the publisher because it's significantly affecting their revenue on PC? I really, really doubt it.

 

[Clear]

Screw whatever tools were invented then or since, you're vastly underestimating corporate and organizational stupidity

You have zero understanding of what preservation actually entails, because you have no idea of how development worked back in those days and how things evolved over time with increasing team-sizes necessitating a much more systematic and centralized approach to code and data management.

I could lay it all out in excruciating detail, but I doubt you'd even care when you have a pre-existing blanket explanation of "corporate and organizational stupidity". Which isn't to say that mistakes never get made, just that its a relatively minor and infrequent issue compared to the unavoidable difficulty involved in resurrecting and modifying legacy code-bases that weren't properly archived in the first place.

RagnarokIV

Still just an excuse. Data can always be pulled from a release binary as can code with admittedly greater difficulty if the source is incomplete or missing. Its always a matter of opportunity cost versus perceived ROI, and if the numbers don't stack up... you don't do it.

As to your personal data-storage efforts, good for you but would you honestly say that everyone who avails themselves of the same publicly available resources takes the same care? Furthermore, admirable as it may be to back-up your own stuff, that in a preservation context is pretty meaningless unless you have taken equal care in that material will remain for posterity.

I'm not saying this to pick on you personally, just to point out that private, personal collections aren't a guarantee of anything in a wider context.
My core beef with the whole "preservation" angle is that it portrays self-interest as public-good altruism! Which is hypocrisy pure and simple unless the historiographic component is fulfilled.

 

[64bitmodels]

I'm sure it does happen. Every Switch game is going to be emulated by someone, even if it's just to test for emulator compatibility.

But is it happening to a degree where it actually poses a problem to the publisher because it's significantly affecting their revenue on PC? I really, really doubt it.

especially considering that it's the Switch version being emulated, the worst version in most cases. PC players would likely rather just spend their money on the game itself as opposed to a shoddy, worse gimped portable version of the game.

 

[Punished Miku]

Ok I'm gonna pass on the insult but man, take it easy ok?

And yeah, why do you care? Do you get a % every time a game is sold by Nintendo? I don't think so. So why do you care if someone who lives thousands of miles from you is playing a game they haven't paid for? Did the latest Zelda make bad numbers?
Tell me one Switch game, JUST ONE, who suffered from piracy on PC. I'm waiting.

I'm calm, and I didn't insult you. Anyone that only concerns themselves with right and wrong if it personally impacts them I think is clinically a sociopath. I didn't take the conversation there. You're literally asking me why would I care as long as I'm fine. That's literally the answer.

Why do I care? I don't believe in rampant theft and think businesses have the right to create things and sell them. Most people agreed on this thousands of years ago when we started gathering together in large groups.

 

[64bitmodels]

I'm calm, and I didn't insult you. Anyone that only concerns themselves with right and wrong if it personally impacts them I think is clinically a sociopath.

I care for other people on the street who i meet every day and recognize as human beings. If they were in a life or death situation i'd try and save them.

I've never met Shuntaro Furukawa. I don't know anything about his personal life. All i know is that he's much richer than I will ever be. Why the fuck should I care about him? Does not caring about some billionaire on the other side of the planet make me a sociopath?

 

[Fbh]

Would be interesting to see if/how this affects performance.
In principle I don't mind companies protecting their products from piracy, but I do mind when it comes at the cost of making the experience worse for people who actually do buy their stuff.

 

[Punished Miku]

I care for other people on the street who i meet every day [...] I've never met Shuntaro Furukawa. I don't know anything about his personal life.

Sounds like a failure of imagination more than anything. We really dont need to keep dwelling on this.

 

[KyoZz]

I'm calm, and I didn't insult you. Anyone that only concerns themselves with right and wrong if it personally impacts them I think is clinically a sociopath. I didn't take the conversation there. You're literally asking me why would I care as long as I'm fine. That's literally the answer.

Why do I care? I don't believe in rampant theft and think businesses have the right to create things and sell them. Most people agreed on this thousands of years ago when we started gathering together in large groups.

Here is the thing, you don't know me, nor what I do everyday. So you insulting (because yeah it's an insult) me of a sociopath is honestly telling about you. You don't know how much I make a month (a lot) nor how much I give (a lot too).
I care more about someone who is in difficulty to finish the month than a multi billion company, and I'm the sociopath?
Well, be prepared for my next statement, it's gonna blow your mind: I think culture is ESSENTIAL and it should be accessible (not free, I prefer to clarify) to EVERYIONE. How's that?

Anyway, still waiting for a proof about how much PC piracy badly impacted a single game on Switch.
As for your other statement, it doesn't make sense so I'll just ignore it.

 

[Sojiro]

Would be interesting to see if/how this affects performance.
In principle I don't mind companies protecting their products from piracy, but I do mind when it comes at the cost of making the experience worse for people who actually do buy their stuff.

That's my bigger concern too, and Denuvo has not had a good track record in that regard.

 

[jshackles]

That seems borderline illegal to block it from being used on pc through emulation

Unfortunately (at least in the US) the Digital Millennium Copyright Act specifically allows companies to incorporate DRM in their products and makes it illegal for people to tamper with or break that DRM.

"If you have the technical means to do so" doesn't sound like they are legally required to never use DRM. They are selling the game to be played on their system.

Your original statement about individual freedom was so broad it was just crazy. Corporations have a right to not be robbed outright after investing millions of dollars to make something. The gaslighting on this topic is so ridiculous after what happened with Tears of the Kingdom over a week prior to launch, when obviously none of those people were able to buy the game. Something about that is deeply wrong and has to change.

What you're describing is obviously not how its being used. It's just a flat out lie. The game literally wasn't even out yet.

It's true that Nintendo (or any third party making a Nintendo Switch game) isn't legally required to never use DRM, kind of the opposite as seen above. In the same way, I'm not legally required to buy something they produce. If a product is put up for sale I'm more likely to buy it if it's not got DRM attached to it - I will go out of my way to purchase games on GOG, and typically buy my games physically on the Switch (if they're available) so that I can back them up myself.

I agree that companies should be able to do what they want or what they need to in order to protect their works. I just feel like it will devalue their product and will reduce its utility for me personally. There are plenty of games available without this restriction, I'll spend my money elsewhere. Given the nature of Denuvo DRM, this will also make whatever game uses it be "online only", which is pretty counter to the idea of the Switch being something that I often toss in a tote bag and take to the beach.

And I agree that the TotK situation was pretty fucked and those people playing it before release were blatantly pirating the game. I just wish there was a good middle ground that would prevent piracy while also allowing me to back up my own personal copy of the game and/or play it on the hardware of my choosing.

 

[Tsaki]

Makes sense. Surprised they didn't do this years ago. Switch 2 will probably have this baked in on the hardware level.

 

[tkscz]

Denuvo always gets cracked, I don't understand why developers keep using their software. Plus it hurts performance, so I can't see too many devs using it.

 

[ManaByte]

If you can’t pirate Switch games anymore how will Kotaku review them?

 

[Dream-Knife]

Like on PC, this won't last very long.

Also real talk: the switch probably isn't getting anymore big games. Maybe metroid, but that will be cross-gen.

 

[DareDaniel]

 

[Guilty_AI]

Which isn't to say that mistakes never get made, just that its a relatively minor and infrequent issue compared to the unavoidable difficulty involved in resurrecting and modifying legacy code-bases that weren't properly archived in the first place.

 lmao

 

[Punished Miku]

Here is the thing, you don't know me, nor what I do everyday. So you insulting (because yeah it's an insult) me of a sociopath is honestly telling about you. You don't know how much I make a month (a lot) nor how much I give (a lot too).
I care more about someone who is in difficulty to finish the month than a multi billion company, and I'm the sociopath?
Well, be prepared for my next statement, it's gonna blow your mind: I think culture is ESSENTIAL and it should be accessible (not free, I prefer to clarify) to EVERYIONE. How's that?

Anyway, still waiting for a proof about how much PC piracy badly impacted a single game on Switch.
As for your other statement, it doesn't make sense so I'll just ignore it.

I get it. Sociopath is a scary word. I never insulted though or said you are one. I basically said in my first post that its gaslighting (which means you're trying to convince me of something you don't even think is true). And that's pretty much what it was. You just explained that you do care for others, donate money and want to ensure everyone has access to important cultural works. So, you can answer your own question you were asking me at the beginning.

Personally, I think everyone should be equal under the law. Everyone has a right to not have their stuff stolen. I think we can sort out income inequality issues through taxation rather than robbing people we feel deserve it. I think people have access to a lot of free cultural works also through Tubi, youtube, almost all the internet, libraries, museums, f2p games, almost all mobile games. I don't think anyone is entitled to set the price for Zelda other than Nintendo. No one has a right to it. I'd be willing to bet you don't think that's fair either.

People just don't like actually getting called out for their shoddy justifications for supporting this stuff. Tons of people actually have convinced themselves they're Robin Hood or doing some huge service for people and it's actually a great thing or a just protest against capitalism or income inequality. That's probably why people get so mad when they hear the truth.

 

[KXVXII9X]

Won't someone think of the corporations!

The reasons we got into this mess in the first place was due to people stealing, devaluing games, and crying how expensive they were while wanting more and more and using any justification they could have things for free. I don't think anyone here is defending corporations but trying to explain how laws and rules work. People kept gloating how they were pirating Nintendo games and don't need a Switch. Of course, they would eventually crack down. I wish gamers could take one ounce of accountability for how we got into this mess for once.

 

[Shake Your Rump]

That so many intelligent people have wasted their time on anti-piracy engineering is a crime against humanity. How many man-hours were wasted? How much money is changing hands? All to inconvenience a few users who wouldn’t buy the games anyway.

 

[Tazzu]

Great news.

Oh yeah check out that Nintendo innovation. After this Gamefreak can finally start to PS2 quality graphics on their new games!

 

[Sleepwalker]

I will actually be pissed if I can't play super mario RPG at native 4k on my pc lol, its the only switch game left im truly looking forward. I've got a preorder from the moment it went live.

 

[Labadal]

Disgusting.

 

[Holammer]

Previously there was little honour or bragging rights to gain by cracking and distributing Switch games because a monkey could do it.
With Denovo protecting a release? Now it'll be a mad dash from grizzled veterans and hopeful hotshots wanting to make a name for themselves. We're going to see cracked releases and/or efforts to improve the emulation to patch up the hooks Denuvo relies on.

Maybe we'll see the return of crack intros with chip music and scrolling sinewave text? Ah yeah! Do you feel it Angels?

 

[Fredrik]

Collectors and historians preserve original hardware and software, ideally in pristine condition with all packaging intact, not hacked images that may or may not be 1:1 copies of the original.

I googled on cassette tapes, as used on C64, saw a text that said a theoretical lifespan of about 30 years is to be expected in optimal scenarios. We’re already past that. And I’ve had some games getting load errors so I’m not surprised. I think floppy disks is about the same. I’ve ripped my important Amiga floppies to adf-files a long time ago. Don’t ever trust magnetic mediums. In a decade or two, how much of the Commodore stuff will work? Anything at all?

 

[U n i o n 0015]

I don't think anyone here is defending corporations but trying to explain how laws and rules work.

Who lobbied for those laws that defined software replication as theft? Oh yeah...large corporations that were the beneficiaries of those laws. It certainly wasn't the software engineers that benefited, because their companies never gave them any share of the patents or sales.

You use the word "stealing" because you've been taught that replication is somehow a lost sale. I'd argue stealing is the theft of the original and that the owner no longer has access to it.

This is a non-problem. The percentage of people out there emulating Switch games is miniscule compared to the Switch market. It hasn't stopped Switch from becoming Nintendo's best-selling console or sunk their stock valuation.

 

[Punished Miku]

You use the word "stealing" because you've been taught that replication is somehow a lost sale. I'd argue stealing is the theft of the original and that the owner no longer has access to it.

Same vibes.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Same vibes.

Better than the Denuvo Defender vibe:

 

[MMaRsu]

The reasons we got into this mess in the first place was due to people stealing, devaluing games, and crying how expensive they were while wanting more and more and using any justification they could have things for free. I don't think anyone here is defending corporations but trying to explain how laws and rules work. People kept gloating how they were pirating Nintendo games and don't need a Switch. Of course, they would eventually crack down. I wish gamers could take one ounce of accountability for how we got into this mess for once.

Wrong, Nintendo has seen more money than any other company from legitimate purchases. Piracy does not affect sales.

Go read a book

EU study finds piracy doesn’t hurt game sales, may actually help

Results suggest a positive effect, but there's a huge margin of error.

arstechnica.com

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

 

[8BiTw0LF]

"Nintendo has been trying to prevent Switch emulation on PC for some time now"

 

[bender]

 

[Fuz]

To bypass this, the ways will be found.

 

[justiceiro]

Nintendo protection so shit they have to hire someone else to do it for them.

 

[KXVXII9X]

Wrong, Nintendo has seen more money than any other company from legitimate purchases. Piracy does not affect sales.

Go read a book

EU study finds piracy doesn’t hurt game sales, may actually help

Results suggest a positive effect, but there's a huge margin of error.

arstechnica.com

Just because they have an obscene amount of money doesn't mean it doesn't affect sales. It still affects sales, despite their games still selling well. They are trying to maximize launch sales. There are a few studies, the EU Commision one being the most popular declaring that piracy doesn't affect game sales overall, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. Nintendo have repeatedly stated it has affected their business (whether that is true or not, idk). Piracy also made an impact on music sales as well. Both good and bad.

 

[Unknown?]

Best time to be a PC gamer! You get all 3 systems games now! Woooo!!!

This is going to be bad for games preservation of Switch copies I absolutely legally buy. Also capitalism is evil, even though I totally buy all my Switch games before emulating them legally.

In capitalism, bad decisions are rewarded with failure. No other economic systems reward bad decisions with failure.

We don't have free competition anyway so not real capitalism.

 

[Clear]

I googled on cassette tapes, as used on C64, saw a text that said a theoretical lifespan of about 30 years is to be expected in optimal scenarios. We’re already past that. And I’ve had some games getting load errors so I’m not surprised. I think floppy disks is about the same. I’ve ripped my important Amiga floppies to adf-files a long time ago. Don’t ever trust magnetic mediums. In a decade or two, how much of the Commodore stuff will work? Anything at all?

I already explained the difference in validity between preserving magnetic/analog media and material that has always existed and been distributed in digital form...

For the record I imaged all my Amiga HD's and disc images in the late 90's when I moved to PC as my primary platform, so its not that I'm opposed to emulation or preservation. Hell, I have a couple of unpublished C64 games of mine mouldering away on 1541 floppy disks that I'd dearly love to see again if I could cheaply lay my hands on functional hardware.

I just don't like people using "preservation" as an excuse for hoarding warez, because its exactly the sort of thing that has always helped delegitimize emulation and actual preservation efforts.