NormalFish
Banned
"too sharp" isn't an issue with the snes. On 480i/p games, however, seeing the individual pixels can be distracting and unappealing.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
- Status
"too sharp" isn't an issue with the snes. On 480i/p games, however, seeing the individual pixels can be distracting and unappealing.
I think it kind of depends on viewing distance.
From my normal viewing distance, I prefer it as sharp as possible (without artificial sharpening). If I view that same content on a monitor from close proximity, however, it does look pretty pixelated. That said, I prefer that to blurriness.
I got a Sony PVM-14L5 yesterday. I hooked up my Wii to try some VC games. Picture looked very dull but I managed to tweak the basic settings so that games looked more like they should.
I have one problem. When the screen is bright in the menu or colorful games like Super Mario World, the bottom left has a reddish hotspot. In fact the left third of the screen has a duller overall color, like a gradual desaturation as you view the screen from right to left. This is most obvious in World's overworld, where the left has muted grass and water and the right has rich color.
Is there anything in the settings that can be done to fix this? I tried the degaussing button once and peeking at some confusing service settings before calling it a day.
I have one problem. When the screen is bright in the menu or colorful games like Super Mario World, the bottom left has a reddish hotspot. In fact the left third of the screen has a duller overall color, like a gradual desaturation as you view the screen from right to left. This is most obvious in World's overworld, where the left has muted grass and water and the right has rich color.
Is there anything in the settings that can be done to fix this? I tried the degaussing button once and peeking at some confusing service settings before calling it a day.
geniusbits
Member
Do you guys think we could add resources to the first page such as XRGB mini console settings (we could agree on them or have a few different options for each console)? I think another set of good resources would be the other repetitive questions looking for info about splitters (SCART, component, even S-video if that exists), cables and maybe even reviews of monitors/TVs.
It may actually be better to start a new thread specifically for XRGB settings. The OP is packed to the max as it is.
I barely play with my XRGB mini... but if I knew more about it, I'd volunteer to create the thread myself.
NormalFish
Banned
Yeah, the OP has no room for new info. I wouldn't mind a XRGB thread, though I personally haven't been using mine lately.
I could probably make it if there was interest. I can do graphics and basic write-ups for most of the big consoles, though someone will have to help me with the less recent/prevalent machines. And Sega stuff.
I could probably make it if there was interest. I can do graphics and basic write-ups for most of the big consoles, though someone will have to help me with the less recent/prevalent machines. And Sega stuff.
Did you install it next to a big metallic mass, like a CRT, or something radiating electromagnetism, like a poorly shielded electronic device? Degauss again. Some people use big magnets rotating quickly to help harmonising the magnetic field, but I've never been able to try it.
I just realized what the problem may be. I temporarily set up the PVM on the living room floor to the right of my entertainment center that has a plasma TV, receiver and Polk speakers. It may explain why the part of the TV closest to the entertainment center (left side of the PVM) is the only part affected. If I move it away and degauss, it should clear up right? I will have it set up in another room without any of this interference.
geniusbits
Member
Gotcha. I would also contribute to settings of the consoles I have, although I'm afraid my eyes aren't as sharp to pick up the little details as some others here.
geniusbits
Member
BVM people, I can't find resolution info on the 14f5u. It does 800 lines, but can it do anything over 480i? Usually that's easy to find Googling around but not for this one.
blame space
Banned
I guess I'll ask this here and see if anyone has any input
I saw this TV at a thrift shop for $15.. I saw it was a Sony Trinitron which I think is good?
Do you think I should buy it? Any brands or things to look out for when you're looking for old CRTs?
I saw this TV at a thrift shop for $15.. I saw it was a Sony Trinitron which I think is good?
Do you think I should buy it? Any brands or things to look out for when you're looking for old CRTs?
I think a CRT with component is pretty essential so if it doesn't have that I'd forget about it.
geniusbits
Member
Trinitron is a big tent term, you should get the model number from the back and use that for specs. The consensus "best" consumer CRT is the KV-__FV310. Things to look for are models with a component input, a digital 3D comb filter, a flat screen rather than curved.
If it has either Scart or Component inputs it's a good start. I personally can't recommend a CRT that can only do Composite or Svideo, but I know the situation is different in the US for consumer CRTs.
Check for any scratches on the screen by using the reflection of lights. If you can have it switched on, try to check for any problem with the geometry. vertical distortions and parallelism can be coorected, but horizontal parallelism often can't.
And you want the original remote, it may be necessary to access and navigate the service menu.
thechristoph
Sir!
I have a really nice Sony Trinitron Wega for my retro gaming. I've been playing Saturn, SNES, and Dreamcast over s-video and PS2 over composhit (I have component cables on the way) and it surprises me how shimmery the edges of dialog boxes or flat corners of objects are. It's a stupid observation but it just makes me wonder if it was always like this and I just didn't know any better.
I've played with settings and I can't seem to find anything to address this. There IS an edge enhancement mode (ClearEdge I think they call it) but it just seems to darken and lighten parts of an image. Is anyone particularly knowledgable in Wega settings that can give some advice?
I've played with settings and I can't seem to find anything to address this. There IS an edge enhancement mode (ClearEdge I think they call it) but it just seems to darken and lighten parts of an image. Is anyone particularly knowledgable in Wega settings that can give some advice?
blame space
Banned
It had two component inputs, and a crazy proto-touch screen remote. It's not a WEGA, though, it had a curved screen. I wasn't about to ask the ppl at goodwill to let me turn it on.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
A lot of this really is potentially your cables. You don't yet have any cables without really bad artifacts. Once your PS2 component cables arrive, you will have a more or less artifact-free cable (maybe with little "noise", but good), if you have shimmering edges and stuff then, it's your TV.
I got a PVM 2 months ago, and until my RGB cables came in the artifacts on composite and s-video were really dissapointing. Just getting RGB cables fixed all that (and component is in that league too)
Actually, you should. They often let people try out electronics. Knowing your luck with TVs, you ought to, really. lol
RadarScope1
Member
This would be great. After purging some stuff from collection recently I am now finally on the path to purchasing a Framemeister. I would welcome a collective depository of GAF XRGBm knowledge and discussion.
NormalFish
Banned
I guess I'll start writing up something of a guide to the FM which can be expanded upon, or pulled from in the creation of a thread. It's something to do.
sixteen-bit
Member
No chill, lol.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
There is the junker HQ FAQ already. It could be written in the form of a more readable guide (and better updated with the new profile stuff), but until then that should do for people researching this topic.
NormalFish
Banned
That FAQ is incredibly bare. It really doesn't cut it.
Dunnymeister
Member
Yeah, agreed.
I bought my xrgb-mini earlier this year and was surprised to find it had a 100V-240V power supply since the Junker HQ wiki article said it'd come with one rated for just 100V. I couldn't edit the article, so I emailed the admin who said that he knew already. Just checked again and the article still doesn't mention it.
I get that a lot of this information is available on shmups, but I don't want to trawl through a thread 272 pages long to get up to date.
The artefacts come from composite and NTSC itself. Prepare to have your mind blown when you receive your components cables.
And because your TV has component inputs, I strongly suggest you to invest in a Scart-to-Component converter and RGB Scart cables for all your other consoles to have the best image possible.
LegendOfGood
Member
I'm looking at purchasing a 27" Sony FD Trinitron WEGA KV-27FS100.
Will this be a good TV for retro gaming? Will there be some nice scan lines?
Will this be a good TV for retro gaming? Will there be some nice scan lines?
bodeiseifer
Member
Don't know that specific model so can't help, all I would say is be wary of higher end crts that were produced in in mid 2000s, my friend used to have a top of the range Panasonic quintrix, and such sets do process the signal, which looks great for dvds, but not good if you want just raw scanline goodness, wouldn't be surprised if lag becomes an issue with such sets too.
LegendOfGood
Member
I have one of those in storage. It's a good CRT. Not perfect, but it'll provide a solid picture (especially for 240p) and that's a good deal. I'd grab it.
LegendOfGood
Member
Thanks! What are its shortcomings? (Just don't want to lug this thing home if there's a better choice out there...)
I didn't love the way 480i looks on it, to be honest, but there's really not much that can be done. 480i is a tricky beast, though, and you probably won't find much better.
240p looks amazing on there, however.
geniusbits
Member
From what I've read it's just a lower end set than the trinitrons with FV where FS is on the model number. If you want a TV now you might pick that one up and then sell it or give it away when you find a better one.
geniusbits
Member
Ok here is some info on the 14F5U. The third line is says "by optional decoder" and that is in reference to "video mode." Some other monitors say 1080psf, 1080i, 720p, 480p, 480i in that space. So the question is, would this monitor be able to display those resolutions with an add on, and would something like that be easy to find? Or does the decoder downscale the higher resolutions to 480i? I don't know what that term means in this context.
lilralphie
Member
Is there a relatively easy way to get the ps2 to output an RGB signal for 480p that the framemeister will accept well? I think I understand that it sends RGsB like the dreamcast and that extra processing is required. I actually have a Toro for my dreamcast.
I've read some discussions but am not sure I know how to do it. I want to get it to a SCART connector so that eventually I can send it through superg's 8-1 SCART switch (I think there have been some discussions on how to get it into mini-DIN format).
I've tried official ps2 component cables to d-link input with optimized settings and it's still noticeably worse than my tv's component input with that cable.
I've read some discussions but am not sure I know how to do it. I want to get it to a SCART connector so that eventually I can send it through superg's 8-1 SCART switch (I think there have been some discussions on how to get it into mini-DIN format).
I've tried official ps2 component cables to d-link input with optimized settings and it's still noticeably worse than my tv's component input with that cable.
Does RF usually not have dot crawl? I've used it for the first time ever yesterday and was surprised to find something that was not blindingly ugly. I mean it's quite blurry, the colours are not uniform (rainbows all over my blacks!) and objects have a slight trail on their right side, but no checkerboard pattern or flickering dot crawl.
Maybe it's my TV that has awesome filters, I don't know. It's a PAL Atari 2600 and I can only test it on my HD CRT, the normal CRT doesn't seem to have what it takes to scan British frequencies.
I was considering modding it for Composite, but honestly if it brings back all the usual Composite artefacts then I don't think it's worth it. (Tim's 2600RGB board is almost here anyway, so it won't matter soon.)
Maybe it's my TV that has awesome filters, I don't know. It's a PAL Atari 2600 and I can only test it on my HD CRT, the normal CRT doesn't seem to have what it takes to scan British frequencies.
I was considering modding it for Composite, but honestly if it brings back all the usual Composite artefacts then I don't think it's worth it. (Tim's 2600RGB board is almost here anyway, so it won't matter soon.)
So the PVM-14L5 I recently purchased is definitely messed up, likely permanently and definitely before it got to me. I tried some Wii VC games and the 240p test suite and was really disappointed. The colors are uneven and poor, there are a few hot spots of distorted color, almost the entire left side looks desaturated and the overall screen had subtle, coarse vertical streaks like the screen was grimy. I tried cleaning it and realized it was not the glass. It's like the display is dying. It's a pretty recent 2005 model so whoever had this unit really screwed it up. I'm returning it soon.
I did careful research and bought "good" versions of several retro consoles that are on their way and thought I had made a big mistake getting into this CRT gaming stuff. Even with the 14L5's imperfections, I had tweaked the service menu settings where I figured it should look at least partially decent in a few games, but it did not. Where were the wonderful scanlines (too faint) and the amazing picture quality I was seeing from others in the scanline thread? Were those pics exaggerated? RetroArch on the big TV looked so much better.
Well, I found a PVM-20M4U locally, $20 untested but with receipt and guarantee I could return or exchange it for another monitor. I wouldn't have passed it up at that crazy low price even without the return policy. I tested it out back home and feel relieved and elated that the picture looks undamaged and fantastic. My doubt about all of this CRT gaming is gone. I ran the suite again. All the obvious stuff but a bit of upper right corner geometry was tweaked to near-perfection as my eyes saw it. Super Mario World through 240p component in Wii VC looks very sharp and vibrant. The scanlines are prominent enough to add that charm everyone talks about and the screen size itself is perfect compared to the 14" model.
I own a quality plasma and still this looks so uniquely different in a really good way. It feels much more responsive with the instantaneous display and input response that playing on the best emulator on the plasma looks and feels so gross in comparison. I just got started but it was definitely worth the investment.
I did careful research and bought "good" versions of several retro consoles that are on their way and thought I had made a big mistake getting into this CRT gaming stuff. Even with the 14L5's imperfections, I had tweaked the service menu settings where I figured it should look at least partially decent in a few games, but it did not. Where were the wonderful scanlines (too faint) and the amazing picture quality I was seeing from others in the scanline thread? Were those pics exaggerated? RetroArch on the big TV looked so much better.
Well, I found a PVM-20M4U locally, $20 untested but with receipt and guarantee I could return or exchange it for another monitor. I wouldn't have passed it up at that crazy low price even without the return policy. I tested it out back home and feel relieved and elated that the picture looks undamaged and fantastic. My doubt about all of this CRT gaming is gone. I ran the suite again. All the obvious stuff but a bit of upper right corner geometry was tweaked to near-perfection as my eyes saw it. Super Mario World through 240p component in Wii VC looks very sharp and vibrant. The scanlines are prominent enough to add that charm everyone talks about and the screen size itself is perfect compared to the 14" model.
I own a quality plasma and still this looks so uniquely different in a really good way. It feels much more responsive with the instantaneous display and input response that playing on the best emulator on the plasma looks and feels so gross in comparison. I just got started but it was definitely worth the investment.
lilralphie
Member
Here's what I've pieced together... think it's worked out:
PS2 system
--> PS2 SCART cable
--> SCART to VGA with audio breakout http://www.videogameperfection.com/2014/11/26/vgaextron-cable-review/ or use a sync strike: http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strike-Devices/Sync-Strike::15.html
--> Extron RGB 190 http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=rgb190f&subtype=1&s=3
--> BNC back to SCART https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/male-rgb-break-out-scart-to-4-x-bnc--2-x-rca-converter-cable
That will get it back to SCART. Whether it works with the 8-in-1 switch remains to be seen...
i must be the luckiest dude around because i got the US version even though i ordered from the UK shop and i ordered like 2 weeks ago.
maybe they still have leftover stock around and once it's gone, it's gone.
i'm happy now since i can finally unlock the true potential of my GBP + Component Cable GC potential.
edit: i take all that back. i've got the worst luck possible.
turns out the package came with the wrong disc. instead of the SD Media Launcher disc, i got a regular action replay disc. what a load of shit. i'm gonna email them to ask for a refund.
Don't panic, afaik they all look like action replay discs but function as both AR and SD Media Launcher depending on the hardware you have hooked up.
sixteen-bit
Member
^I can confirm this it the case.
My SD Media Launcher has AR branding on the disc.
My SD Media Launcher has AR branding on the disc.
oh...
i went and tested and it works. silly mislabeling.
i got swiss and GBI working now. they refused to boot initially but now are working once i swapped SD cards.
gonna mess around with stuff now.
edit: the screen shot function is pretty nice. these look like emulator screenshots.
edit2: i've tried booting the .iso versions of GBI to force it in widescreen and all of them crash on me (gives the usual stuff when a homebrew app crashes)
any trick to make them work? so far only the .dol versions load fine but those are locked to 4:3 (and i'm too inept to modify a .dol)
i went and tested and it works. silly mislabeling.
i got swiss and GBI working now. they refused to boot initially but now are working once i swapped SD cards.
gonna mess around with stuff now.
edit: the screen shot function is pretty nice. these look like emulator screenshots.
edit2: i've tried booting the .iso versions of GBI to force it in widescreen and all of them crash on me (gives the usual stuff when a homebrew app crashes)
any trick to make them work? so far only the .dol versions load fine but those are locked to 4:3 (and i'm too inept to modify a .dol)
NormalFish
Banned
looks like ~ 20 pounds if Amazon is to be believed.
I'm more interested in finding something for NTSC. I looked a bit more today with absolutely no luck.
goldenpp72
Member
Figured while this topic is bumped I could post a picture of my setup in progress, this is a RGB modded NES done by baphomet, looks good. Pardon the the bit of disarray with the cords and such, had to redo the setup a bit to accommodate the beast of the 5200 and haven't had time to redo it just yet. Not direct feed unfortunately but it looks nice in person.
Getting there, just need to do a bit more
Getting there, just need to do a bit more
Yeah I'm looking for an NTSC one as well.
It looks beautiful!!!Figured while this topic is bumped I could post a picture of my setup in progress, this is a RGB modded NES done by baphomet, looks good. Pardon the the bit of disarray with the cords and such, had to redo the setup a bit to accommodate the beast of the 5200 and haven't had time to redo it just yet. Not direct feed unfortunately but it looks nice in person.
Getting there, just need to do a bit more
- Status