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[Chichikov]

The article you're quoting puts the fines in the billions of dollars and says they're all record-setting. "Slap on the wrist."

Because it's not going to negativity impact the life of any of the people who orchestrated that fraud, and considering bankers made dynastic amount of money pulling such shit, they really have no incentive to stop that behavior.

Get filthy rich doing whatever you fucking want, and if you get caught, shareholders are going to see slightly smaller profits for a quarter.
Damn it feel good to be a bankster.

 

[Omegasquash]

The article you're quoting puts the fines in the billions of dollars and says they're all record-setting. "Slap on the wrist."

Do any of you even know what a Libor is?

It doesn't impact the lives of the bankers in any way. They'll get reprimanded by the board, or on paper or something, then get paid a shitload of money for making that board a shitload of money.

 

[pizza dog]

Just the biggest financial scandal/swindel ever. Big banks fixing global interest rates; what do you know about it?

The "swindle" is a manipulation of rates but business still entered into their credit contracts willingly at the manipulated rates. Shit is fraudulent and clearly a crime, but calling it theft or demanding these people be put up against the wall is coocoo bananas.

 

[Chichikov]

The "swindle" is a manipulation of rates but business still entered into their credit contracts willingly at the manipulated rates. Shit is fraudulent and clearly a crime, but calling it theft or demanding these people be put up against the wall is coocoo bananas.

If you want to talk about practicality, you need to have punishment that can deter such behavior, that fine will do no such thing, if you want to discuss justice, considering you can go to jail for lying on a mortgage application, expecting those assholes to get the same (for a much more serious crime) is harldy coocoo bananas.

 

[Extra Sauce]

The rich and the poor live such different lives it's every bit the same as if we lived two miles vertically apart.
Nothing will ever change in our generation as there needs to be no carry over wealth, just a take into the system like a tax, and an establishment of equal opportunity for each successive generation.
Only then will people be able to value and understand one another, as it is there can be no sympathy as there is no obligatory route for understanding between the two.
Just my thoughts.

I consider myself a socialist but I'm not a big fan of the "no carry over wealth" idea. I think leaving something behind for your children is a great motivator for working hard and contributing to the economy. Perhaps there should be a limit though...

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

The "swindle" is a manipulation of rates but business still entered into their credit contracts willingly at the manipulated rates. Shit is fraudulent and clearly a crime, but calling it theft or demanding these people be put up against the wall is coocoo bananas.

Inflation by design could be construed as institutionalized theft. I consider it as such, at any rate. When large amounts of currency are printed, those that receive the currency print benefit the most. By the time the fiat trickles down to the smaller holders, the market has factored in the inflation and the circus continues with ever devalued capital. The buying power of those dollars is not as strong as when they were initially printed. I didn't agree to be forced to use the legal tender, yet I'm a victim of our fiscal policy. I consider it very clever theft. I am systematically stolen from when I hold dollars over time.

The corporate banksters are only a symptom of the disease that manifests due to our national monetary policy and central bank.

 

[AbsolutBro]

...
Adrian Scott-Jones was also fined $12,500 in a hearing at the U.S. District Court in Manhattan. He worked for the U.S. unit of Compagnie Financiere Tradition in Switzerland.

...

Twenty people have been charged in connection with this and similar schemes following a broad investigation by the U.S. Justice Department of the $3.7 trillion U.S. municipal bond market.

Source

So 20 banks, national and international, conspired to rip off the American people by fixing the municipal bond market. $3.7 TRILLION dollar market.

What was the penalty?

About $745 million dollars.

That is total across all 20 banks. Not even 1 Billion dollars in TOTAL fines, for banks that no doubt made Billions of dollars off the fixed deals.

No more. These people need to be held accountable on the personal level, and CEOs of banks (who get their big bucks for supposedly managing these organizations) need to also be held to task.

Frankly, the fact that scandal after scandal continue to emerge, and yet 0 has changed is beyond disgusting. You might say executions are over the top, but clearly there needs to be FAR more punishment that what is happening now.

 

[zma1013]

It's okay to steal as long as you give the government their cut apparently.

 

[demon]

Yeah these fines are meaningless punishments as long as the bankers come out ahead. It's like fining somebody $10 for stealing 100. Nothing but government sanctioned reduction in criminal earnings.

 

[Chichikov]

Inflation by design could be construed as institutionalized theft. I consider it as such, at any rate. When large amounts of currency are printed, those that receive the currency print benefit the most. By the time the fiat trickles down to the smaller holders, the market has factored in the inflation and the circus continues with ever devalued capital. The buying power of those dollars is not as strong as when they were initially printed. I didn't agree to be forced to use the legal tender, yet I'm a victim of our fiscal policy. I consider it very clever theft. I am systematically stolen from when I hold dollars over time.

The corporate bankers are only a symptom of the disease that manifests due to our national monetary policy and central bank.

Inflation* for the most part help the debtor and hurt the creditor, so on the macro level, it's good for the poor and bad for the rich, and it's specifically bad for bankers who are not only big lenders but sit on large monetary assets, which is exactly why you see such giant focus on keeping inflation down and deficit freak-outs.

* it might be more accurate to say inflation over anticipated rate, but even that statement have problems.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

It's okay to steal as long as you give the government their cut apparently.

Same thing here in Belgium now where prominent politicians are championing the fact that major tax evading companies settle for a fine they're all too happy to pay because it's next to nothing compared to the money they laundered. The reasoning is "hey, at least now the state is getting something as opposed to nothing, trials cost money and take a long time!"

 

[Gentleman Jack]

The article you're quoting puts the fines in the billions of dollars and says they're all record-setting. "Slap on the wrist."

Do any of you even know what a Libor is?

The penalties are historically small so the bar on 'record setting' is quite low.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Inflation* for the most part help the debtor and hurt the creditor, so on the macro level, it's good for the poor and bad for the rich, and it's specifically bad for bankers who are not only big lenders but sit on large monetary assets, which is exactly why you see such giant focus on keeping inflation down and deficit freak-outs.

* it might be more accurate to say inflation over anticipated rate, but even that statement have problems.

Who exactly is focusing on keeping inflation down?

I agree that an inflating currency is a valuable asset to one in debt, so long as their capacity to purchase commodities maintains as they repay existing debts with devalued dollars. However I do not find this to be the case for the layman.

 

[Chichikov]

Who exactly is focusing on keeping inflation down?

Everyone who is freaking out over the deficit; Germany.

I agree that an inflating currency is a valuable asset to one in debt, so long as their capacity to purchase commodities maintains as they repay existing debts with devalued dollars. However I do not find this to be the case for the layman.

I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded.
But I can talk about myself, my highest liability (like many people) is my mortgage, which is fixed rate, higher inflation is great for me, and the same would be true to anyone who has fixed rate debt (student loan, car loans etc.).
It requires no skill, understanding or any action for the average person to reap the benefits of higher inflation.

 

[mackattk]

But I can talk about myself, my highest liability (like many people) is my mortgage, which is fixed rate, higher inflation is great for me, and the same would be true to anyone who has fixed rate debt (student loan, car loans etc.).
It requires no skill, understanding or any action for the average person to reap the benefits of higher inflation.

Yeah, inflation is great for fixed rate loan. It isn't so great when your wage doesn't keep up with inflation.

 

[Chichikov]

Yeah, inflation is great for fixed rate loan. It isn't so great when your wage doesn't keep up with inflation.

It's true that some employers use inflation as an excuse for real (real as opposed to nominal) salary cut, but that only works in industries where workers don't have bargaining power, for example, I work in tech and lived through very high inflation (not in the US) and my salary was always adjusted for inflation (not directly, but effectively).
And for people who don't have bargaining power, well, blaming inflation is effectively arguing that employers can pay them less but don't do so because reasons, and I don't think that hold water, at least not in the long term and at least not in places like the US.

Now to be fair, it's true that in the US inflation can erode salaries, but that is mostly because we don't adjust minimum wage, but that's a problem with minimum wage, not inflation.

p.s.
Inflation is great in general because it encourage consumption.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

It's true that some employers use inflation as an excuse for real (real as opposed to nominal) salary cut, but that only works in industries where workers don't have bargaining power, for example, I work in tech and lived through very high inflation (not in the US) and my salary was always adjusted for inflation (not directly, but effectively).
And for people who don't have bargaining power, well, blaming inflation is effectively arguing that employers can pay them less but don't do so because reasons, and I don't think that hold water, at least not in the long term and at least not in places like the US.

Now to be fair, it's true that in the US inflation can erode salaries, but that is mostly because we don't adjust minimum wage, but that's a problem with minimum wage, not inflation.

p.s.
Inflation is great in general because it encourage consumption.

I do not wish for an inflating dollar nor do I condone the central bank policy of inflating the currency I'm forced to use under law. You should be happy as inflation is quite high, despite what modified (see fabricated) CPI indexes and Fed chairman indicate. I think we have a fundamental disagreement on the effects of inflation (desirable vs undesirable), so it is likely best to leave it at that. I do not find inflation to have been desirable in my lifetime to any degree, I think this system is cyclical and many of the positive attributes you state are actually an undesirable result of inflation ("increasing" wages, etc). Having come from the background of small business, this is my opinion.

 

[Chichikov]

I do not wish for an inflating dollar nor do I condone the central bank policy of inflating the currency I'm forced to use under law. You should be happy as inflation is quite high, despite what modified (see fabricated) CPI indexes and Fed chairman indicate. I think we have a fundamental disagreement on the effects of inflation (desirable vs undesirable), so it is likely best to leave it at that. I do not find inflation to have been desirable in my lifetime to any degree, I think this system is cyclical and many of the positive attributes you state are actually an undesirable result of inflation ("increasing" wages, etc). Having come from the background of small business, this is my opinion.

I wish for a higher inflation and I tried to explain why, I'm not sure why you think a lower inflation is better, but we don't have to go there if you don't want to (I'm not even sure what inflation has to do with the discussion here, but you brought it up).

p.s.
You think inflation is high right now?
What do you think the inflation target should be?

 

[Acorn]

It's true that some employers use inflation as an excuse for real (real as opposed to nominal) salary cut, but that only works in industries where workers don't have bargaining power, for example, I work in tech and lived through very high inflation (not in the US) and my salary was always adjusted for inflation (not directly, but effectively).
And for people who don't have bargaining power, well, blaming inflation is effectively arguing that employers can pay them less but don't do so because reasons, and I don't think that hold water, at least not in the long term and at least not in places like the US.

Now to be fair, it's true that in the US inflation can erode salaries, but that is mostly because we don't adjust minimum wage, but that's a problem with minimum wage, not inflation.

p.s.
Inflation is great in general because it encourage consumption.

You encourage consumption fueled by cheap credit when wages don't rise. It's happening here again (uk).

 

[Yagharek]

These bankers are the real terrorists. They've probably caused a few thousand deaths through suicide and stress thanks to people losing their jobs and homes and livelihoods and families.

 

[Angry Fork]

They will die rich and happy after living highly fulfilling lives.

Their families won't, the people will make sure of that.

 

[Chichikov]

You encourage consumption fueled by cheap credit when wages don't rise. It's happening here again (uk).

This has nothing to do with credit, inflation encourage spending your money sooner rather than later because it loses value when you're sitting on it.

 

[Acorn]

This has nothing to do with credit, inflation encourage spending your money sooner rather than later because it loses value when you're sitting on it.

It does when cheap credit is available and encouraged along with the link between wages and inflation being well and truly broken. Nothing happens inside a bubble.

 

[WARCOCK]

These bankers are the real terrorists. They've probably caused a few thousand deaths through suicide and stress thanks to people losing their jobs and homes and livelihoods and families.

It's probably not easy to calculate but I would not be surprised if the repercussions of the degree of inequality symptomatic of finance's practices are probably way larger than a few thousands disgruntled citizens. There is probably more people to blame though in that instance(politicians and economists), how entitled of me.

 

[Yagharek]

It's probably not easy to calculate but I would not be surprised if the repercussions of the degree of inequality symptomatic of finance's practices are probably way larger than a few thousands disgruntled citizens. There is probably more people to blame though in that instance, how entitled of me.

I'm lowballing it by a couple of orders of magnitude.

 

[pigeon interrupted]

edit

 

[Chichikov]

It does when cheap credit is available and encouraged along with the link between wages and inflation being well and truly broken. Nothing happens inside a bubble.

I misunderstood what you were saying, derp.
Either way, the problem with the UK is not inflation, and it's not what's creating a credit bubble (high inflation don't create credit bubbles in general).

 

[SapientWolf]

These bankers are the real terrorists. They've probably caused a few thousand deaths through suicide and stress thanks to people losing their jobs and homes and livelihoods and families.

If those are the people that hold the outcome of thousands of livelihoods in their hands then I imagine that there could be some negative consequences to just hauling them all off to jail.

But didn't some of them go to prison anyway?

 

[B-Dubs]

The problem is that those fuckers made enough money to last a lifetime, you might fuck the bank (but you can't fuck it too bad, because people have money there) but the bank execs just laugh it all the way to a private island.

Nah, you need to hit those fuckers personally and need to hit them where it hurt, some people suggested that "You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month term, and all this bullshit would stop, all over Wall Street" and it's probably true, but I always thought the best approach, seeing how those are crimes of greed is to go after their money, but go after it hard.
Take everything, like we do to drug dealers, and then create a penal tax bracket specifically for assholes who were convicted of such grand financial malfeasance - every dollar you make over the median income we tax at 100%.
You bring that stick, this shit will end, quickly.

Have I ever told you I love the way you think?

 

[kame-sennin]

Only solution is to take out the heads of these banks.

Good idea.

 

[Yagharek]

If those are the people that hold the outcome of thousands of livelihoods in their hands then I imagine that there could be some negative consequences to just hauling them all off to jail.

But didn't some of them go to prison anyway?

Only one person was ever convicted over any of the sub prime/GFC attacks.

 

[kame-sennin]

These bankers are the real terrorists. They've probably caused a few thousand deaths through suicide and stress thanks to people losing their jobs and homes and livelihoods and families.

Bankers have killed far more than "a few thousand" people:

Now Goldman and other banks were free to drive more investors into the commodities markets, enabling speculators to place increasingly big bets. That 1991 letter from Goldman more or less directly led to the oil bubble in 2008, when the number of speculators in the market — driven there by fear of the falling dollar and the housing crash — finally overwhelmed the real physical suppliers and consumers. By 2008, at least three quarters of the activity on the commodity exchanges was speculative, according to a congressional staffer who studied the numbers — and that's likely a conservative estimate... And the damage didn't just come from oil. Soaring food prices driven by the commodities bubble led to catastrophes across the planet, forcing an estimated 100 million people into hunger and sparking food riots throughout the Third World.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

These bankers forced millions to starve to death in order to turn a profit.

 

[Yagharek]

Bankers have killed far more than "a few thousand" people:



These bankers forced millions to starve to death in order to turn a profit.

Those numbers dont surprise me at all, but I was referring in this specific case to the number of people directly affected by the 2008 fraud in the real estate/investment sectors.

 

[kame-sennin]

Those numbers dont surprise me at all, but I was referring in this specific case to the number of people directly affected by the 2008 fraud in the real estate/investment sectors.

Yea, that makes it even worse. That there are massive death counts for every bubble these assholes create is unconscionable. So few Americans realize that Wall Street bankers actually kill people.