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[Mrbob]

The Kojima love fest here has been great and fun, but I think all this gloom and doom about the X360 being underpowered is too prevelant. Here is my supporting evidence:

Look at the detail in both pictures. It is extremely close in quality. In fact, juding on picture alone I would give the edge to Gears of War. GoW is a 2006 game too. Just goes to show you that X360 is not doomed nor is it supremely underpowered compared to the PS3. The PS3 will be more powerful, but the difference won't be huge. Enjoy both! The PS3/X360 two console future is the way to go!

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Dear god.


just stop.

 

[xexex]

this thread will not see a happy outcome :}

 

[aerofx]

:lol, can't believe you did that.

 

[Joe]

i think thats a good comparison. technically, they're essentially identical.

 

[raYne]

This thread sucks and it won't end anything.

(insert troll comments in posts below this line)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[GitarooMan]

Enjoy both!

Exactly. Just because the PS2 is underpowered doesn't mean there weren't a lot great games. Both systems will have great exclusives and both will be worth owning.

 

[Mrbob]

Dear god.


just stop.

Read the thread. I'm trying to end the console wars!

 

[PhatSaqs]

I actually think GoW looks better in still shots. But it gets bitch clapped and piledriven off of a 300 story building by Snake once we start talking about motion.

 

[gofreak]

Oh lord.

I'll bite.

On a technical level, there are couple of things..I see hair on Snake's head and face. I see a form fitting body-suit on snake that exposes far more detail of his body vs the clunkier suit on the GoW dude that hides. The devil's in the detail.

And in motion..let's not go there (and it isn't just about character animation either).

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but this isn't the best vehicle

 

[Speevy]

Plus, huge blue man could kick old Snake's ass.

Seriously though, I don't see a technical difference in the two games. Metal Gear Solid 4's animation is 10x better, but that has nothing to do with the two systems.

 

[The Faceless Master]

thats an awesome comparison...

 

[op_ivy]

i think thats a good comparison. technically, they're essentially identical.

they really are. while this thread will likely turn to shit, i thank you for the comparison

 

[TwixDawg]

eh?

 

[Doc Holliday]

except one was running at 60 fps Of course we havent seen gameplay video of mgs4 or GOW on final hardware. Also in that screenshot mgs4 looks more plastic than gow....GASP

 

[PS2 KID]

you are correct. There is a difference. One is running on an Alpha kit and one is running on a Final kit.

 

[Mrbob]

I actually think GoW looks better in still shots. But it gets bitch clapped and piledriven off of a 300 story building by Snake once we start talking about motion.

Yeah but it doesn't mean another game can look as good and have better animation. This is a choice Epic made for gameplay reasons.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Comparisions look pretty close but in motion....man they aren't even in the same league.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Those are actually cool comparison pics. However, since finals for both systems will be arriving soon, we will be able to tell then. Even though PS3 is further behind in release date, they were ahead in advanced kits. Microsoft's folly, but finals are in dev hands. We shall see soon enough

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Pre-emptive lockage anyone? A little facism every now and then never hurt anyone.

Well I guess it did, but at least this time it'll be worth it.

 

[Speevy]

Oh lord.

I'll bite.

On a technical level, there are couple of things..I see hair on Snake's head and face. I see a form fitting body-suit on snake that exposes far more detail of his body vs the clunkier suit on the GoW dude that hides. The devil's in the detail.

And in motion..let's not go there (and it isn't just about character animation either).

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but this isn't the best vehicle

Hair? Have you played Conker? Seen Kameo? That's not even an issue. I think both of these games have a tremendous level of detail. And in motion, like I said, it's the animation.

 

[Timedog]

Its a decent comparison, but i don't know if it helps anything. People who say either one looks like crap are blinded and aren't going to have their minds changed by ANYTHING. They both look stunning.

 

[Miburou]

Next gen can't arrive soon enough.

 

[raYne]

Oh lord.

I'll bite.

On a technical level, there are couple of things..I see hair on Snake's head and face. I see a form fitting body-suit on snake that exposes far more detail of his body vs the clunkier suit on the GoW dude that hides. The devil's in the detail.

And in motion..let's not go there.

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but this isn't the best vehicle

In other words:

I love Snake's Tom Selleck mustache. Snake is sexy and I can see his butt in his form fittiing body suit and all the other details of his body.

And in motion... I wish I could go there.

PS Look at Snake in my dreamy avatar... Mmm Snake...

(I'm kidding of course.... or am I?)

 

[[Reki]]

you are correct. There is a difference. One is running on an Alpha kit and one is running on a Final kit.

Not really, that pic of GOW is from the first teaser, which was running on alpha kits too

 

[sprsk]

do we know if mgs4 is normal mapped?

 

[Bebpo]

Because judging an entire game engine on one character model is the way it works! @_@

There's a reason why Snake's model isn't loaded with a billion polygons of stuff and I think that reason was pretty apparent from the trailer.

 

[gofreak]

Hair? Have you played Conker? Seen Kameo? That's not even an issue. I think both of these games have a tremendous level of detail.

That wasn't the comparison being made

And it's not just character animation. It's everything about the movement in MGS4, the way the environment moves for want of a better word. The dust, the "wind", the smoke etc.

I think static visuals aside, the potential for dynamic differences between the systems is the greater potential divider. That's not to say what MGS4 is doing could not be done by X360, but neither of the games being presented here are ultimate examples of either system's power over its lifetime. We don't have that yet. Certain things that are of CPU domain, though, that's they will be the greatest potential point of difference, and noticeable ones too (again in motion).

To balance the comparison more directly, how do we think UE3 will perform on PS3 vs X360..?

 

[Mrbob]

Next gen can't arrive soon enough.

True. I'm playing current gen games right now and can see all the flaws after starting to see some true next gen action.

 

[PS2 KID]

Not really, that pic of GOW is from the first teaser, which was running on alpha kits too

It probably uses in game assets. They've had 2 weeks on the final kits already.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Not really, that pic of GOW is from the first teaser, which was running on alpha kits too

Alpha kit = Apple G5, just for clarification

 

[dark10x]

While I do believe MGS4's Snake is more detailed overall, they are very close in quality. Not everyone could match Kojima's team anyways...

Kojima did not claim to be focusing on model detail, though, which seems a bit odd...but we don't have too many other PS3 examples to compare with.

One thing to note, however, is the armor in GoW. If you look, it relies VERY heavily on normal maps. It's actually rather simple and flat...Snake's suit isn't.

 

[[Reki]]

It probably uses in game assets. They've had 2 weeks on the final kits already.

Yep, time enough to optimize the engine completely ¬¬

 

[----]

The Kojima love fest here has been great and fun, but I think all this gloom and doom about the X360 being underpowered is too prevelant. Here is my supporting evidence:

Look at the detail in both pictures. It is extremely close in quality. In fact, juding on picture alone I would give the edge to Gears of War. GoW is a 2006 game too. Just goes to show you that X360 is not doomed nor is it supremely underpowered compared to the PS3. The PS3 will be more powerful, but the difference won't be huge. Enjoy both! The PS3/X360 two console future is the way to go!

Not only that but check out the extensive Chrome Hounds footage on Gamespot then compare it to the direct feed footage of MGS4 which I've watched several times on G4. The detail on the tanks and mechs in MGS4 don't compare favorably to Chrome Hounds. There's quite a bit of fog/dust in the MGS4 footage as well which obscures most of the background in all the scenes. So I think the Xbox 360 hardware is pretty damn powerful compared to the PS3. Both systems are amazing and will probably be nearly equal in power. I think both systems could handle each other's games. The most amazing stuff in the MGS4 trailer is the animation and artistry of the director. I think a lot of the credit goes to Konami having such gifted game designers, not to the PS3.

 

[Lazy8s]

Next-gen not only starts with PS3 but is exclusively the province of it.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

that's a good comparison picture!

 

[[Reki]]

do we know if mgs4 is normal mapped?

Just check out Otacon's face.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

That wasn't the comparison being made

And it's not just character animation. It's everything about the movement in MGS4, the way the environment moves for want of a better word. The dust, the "wind", the smoke etc.

I think static visuals aside, the potential for dynamic differences between the systems is the greater potential divider. That's not to say what MGS4 is doing could not be done by X360, but neither of the games being presented here are ultimate examples of either system's power over its lifetime. We don't have that yet.

I agree, even if we don't talk about the animation, there was so much going on in the scenery, so much graphical effects going on constantly in MGS4 that sets it apart from everything else. The "natural" look that Kojima wanted.

 

[raYne]

Next-gen not only starts with PS3 but is exclusively the province of it.

I'm confused.. your pic comparison says otherwise.

 

[GitarooMan]

Next-gen not only starts with PS3 but is exclusively the province of it.

I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous. I've seen some variation of this so many times on this board(i.e, "next gen starts with PS3"). I don't get it. Is x360 this gen? Along these lines one could say that Ps2 and Xbox were different generations.

 

[hadareud]

That wasn't the comparison being made

And it's not just character animation. It's everything about the movement in MGS4, the way the environment moves for want of a better word. The dust, the "wind", the smoke etc.

I think static visuals aside, the potential for dynamic differences between the systems is the greater potential divider. That's not to say what MGS4 is doing could not be done by X360, but neither of the games being presented here are ultimate examples of either system's power over its lifetime. We don't have that yet.

The big problem is that GOW is coming out in 5 months and MGS4 probably in 1 - 2 years. Of course Kojima can set the bar higher, they have more development time to achieve better animation, physics with great graphics. I think GOW is extremely impressive considering how short the development time on actual hardware will be. Another factor is that they have not even touched a second core yet (as confirmed in the Gamespot interview)

Having said that I will wait for proof that Cell is superior in physics, assumtions (even if they are yours) just won't do ...

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Next-gen not only starts with PS3 but is exclusively the province of it.

Wow those fingers are really fucked up.

 

[Willy Wanka]

How about we wait till the games are finished so that we can compare game for game rather than real-time demo with 50% finished game. These threads are so utterly pointless. I don't know why all you console manufacturer cock slobberers can't appreciate the fact that both games might look and play well. Tossers

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

It probably uses in game assets. They've had 2 weeks on the final kits already.

Microsoft fucked up the developmental process leading up to the launch. Alphas until May-Juneish. Betas for a few months, now finals in September. That is not how a game is usually made. This launch and the games was done under like guerilla tactics. Now that finals are in the hands, you will see things on par with what has been displayed for the PS3.

 

[human5892]

As others have said, GoW completely falls apart when considering its animation...which, contrary to what someone said, may actually have something to do with the architecture of the two systems.

Not to say that the 360 isn't a fine piece of kit in its own right, of course. But I think it's going to become more and more clear as the generation goes on that the PS3 is simply the better hardware...if one insists on comparing the two.

 

[gofreak]

The big problem is that GOW is coming out in 5 months and MGS4 probably in 1 - 2 years. Of course Kojima can set the bar higher, they have more development time to achieve better animation, physics with great graphics. I think GOW is extremely impressive considering how short the development time on actual hardware will be. Another factor is that they have not even touched a second core yet (as confirmed in the Gamespot interview)

Well first of all, what they've achieved sofar has been done, I'm quite certain, in less time than GoW has been in development. But there are dev environment differences as noted elsewhere.

Also, in those 1-2 years, we'll see how MGS4 improves still further.

But if you're going to raise this point, then compare UE3 on X360 to UE3 on PS3 if you wanna do it properly

Having said that I will wait for prove that Cell is superior in physics, assumtions (even if they are yours) just won't do ...

You'll see it soon enough, I'm very confident of that. It seems natural looking at its architecture, it's what it was designed for, and to put it mildly, that has been the "suggestion" we have seen from those who should know (even if they do backpedal when it upsets ). Static visuals/render quality is fine, but how they move and behave will be as important next-gen IMO.

Oh, and this isn't about saying one game looks like shit or anything of the sort. Obviously both look great, in screenshots at least. But if you insist on comparison..

 

[op_ivy]

Wow those fingers are really fucked up.

totally looks like shit. maybe its just the art... naw, its definitely the animation

 

[TwixDawg]

Next-gen not only starts with PS3 but is exclusively the province of it.

No, no, no. You're suppose to find the worst looking GoW picture, not that one.

 

[SantaC]

the comparison needs too be done when both games are finished....

 

[Gahiggidy]

Gears of War is a fake game.

Metal Gear Solid is a tech demo.