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Drama Clickbait The Verge - Microsoft wants to reduce its Xbox store cut and shake up console gaming (Update: Not Happening, see OP)

DaGwaphics

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LOL! What the hell is wrong with today's journalists and writers!

You forgot to bold the "at this time" part at the end there. Honestly, this is MS we are talking about, they could make a definitive statement at breakfast and being moving in the opposite direction by the time your head hits the pillow at night. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Heisenberg007

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You forgot to bold the "at this time" part at the end there. Honestly, this is MS we are talking about, they could make a definitive statement at breakfast and being moving in the opposite direction by the time your head hits the pillow at night. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Things can definitely change, and very quickly. It is just extremely pretentious and obnoxious for the writer to say 'MS clearly wants to do this' even after MS's denial. It's almost funny! lol
 
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DaGwaphics

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Things can definitely change, and very quickly. It is just extremely pretentious and obnoxious for the writer to say 'MS clearly wants to do this' even after MS's denial. It's almost funny! lol

That statement that he made though, "Either way, Microsoft has clearly been planning this change, and wants to cut its Xbox fees somehow" is objectively true whether they actually do it or not. The fact that this change went far enough beyond internal meeting rooms to be openly discussed with Epic means that there is some kind of drive internally to alter the status quo. Likely in an effort to get the streaming rights worked in.
 
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BeardGawd

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Not really. Because right now the majority of third party games make more money on Playstation overall. So they would profit more by making improvements to Playstation version than Xbox because Sony machine has a larger install base. They are not going to do charity work for Microsoft for FUTURE profit, when the industry standard is to be paid upfront.

If the split was 50/50 between Sony and MS, then maybe you could have an argument. But right now it is like 70/30 in Sony's favour, which means third parties know who is paying the bills.

MS only has themselves to blame when they said they don't care about hardware sales anymore.Or perhaps they never believed in it and was lying. Regardless the hardware ecosystem difference is why your plan does not work.

You can't expect Third Party to promote your hardware; that is YOUR job as the platform holder. You have to promote your own hardware, and if you downplay it then you get what you deserved.
You are forgetting multiplatform owners. Having the most performant version on Xbox will encourage those users to pick up the game on Xbox which is more money for developers.
 

Heisenberg007

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That statement that he made though, "Either way, Microsoft has clearly been planning this change, and wants to cut its Xbox fees somehow" is objectively true whether they actually do it or not. The fact that this change went far enough beyond internal meeting rooms to be openly discussed with Epic means that there is some kind of drive internally to alter the status quo. Likely in an effort to get the streaming rights worked in.
That was just a proposal. They would evaluate its pros and cons and take everyone's opinion on board, prepare feasibility reports, etc. Unless Phil comes out and says "I want to do this" [and we're trying our best to make it possible], this really does not fall into that category. Tom Warren does not know what the company wants to do.

Anyway, we are getting too literal here. No further comments from me on this. I just thought it was very stupid to say that after MS's denial.
 
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reksveks

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Things can definitely change, and very quickly. It is just extremely pretentious and obnoxious for the writer to say 'MS clearly wants to do this' even after MS's denial. It's almost funny! lol
Tom Warren has the cause and effect wrong imo. They want the library and that library has to be hardware platform free. That means that they are willing to drop the 30 rev split.

The only other reason that they might want a lower percentage might be to put further regulatory pressure on Apple but think its a stretch.

You are forgetting multiplatform owners. Having the most performant version on Xbox will encourage those users to pick up the game on Xbox which is more money for developers.
Having the platform that gives you the most bang for your buck and ux is going to drive 'new' users to your 'platform'.
 
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Metnut

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Makes sense for Microsoft to lower their share. They have a smaller amount of users than either Sony or Nintendo, and a significant amount of those users are cheap and just want to subscribe to Gamepass and not actually buy games.

They have to do something to try and get games on their platform after last gen’s disaster, so I think this is a savvy move on their part even if it won’t make much of a difference.
 

reksveks

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Makes sense for Microsoft to lower their share. They have a smaller amount of users than either Sony or Nintendo, and a significant amount of those users are cheap and just want to subscribe to Gamepass and not actually buy games.

They have to do something to try and get games on their platform after last gen’s disaster, so I think this is a savvy move on their part even if it won’t make much of a difference.
Except this has nothing to do with the end price of games unless publisher pass down the reduced cost.
 
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Except this has nothing to do with the end price of games unless publisher pass down the reduced cost.
They didn’t say it was anything to do with the end price? If they lower the cut, the publisher makes the same amount of money with less sales, hence offsetting the potential reduction in sales that Gamepass might cause in their lower user base. That’s the point they were making.

I’m not saying I necessarily think that will happen, but you took the wrong meaning from that person’s comment.
 
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Dane

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The title of the article does not match the contents.

“We have no plans to change the revenue share for console games at this time,” says a Microsoft spokesperson in a statement to The Verge about these documents. That suggests these plans have either fallen through, changed significantly from January, or Microsoft isn’t ready to announce any changes yet. Either way, Microsoft has clearly been planning this change, and wants to cut its Xbox fees somehow.

Yes, Microsoft "clearly" has been planning the change and wants to cut Xbox fees. You can tell by how they flatly said they are not doing it. Articles like these are one of the main reasons why gaming journalism has become something I can't take seriously.

They made the article before Microsoft answered them, and even so, due to the nature of the documents and stuff, they could still deny that they were doing any changes.
 

reksveks

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They didn’t say it was anything to do with the end price? If they lower the cut, the publisher makes the same amount of money with less sales, hence offsetting the potential reduction in sales that Gamepass might cause in their lower user base. That’s the point they were making.

I’m not saying I necessarily think that will happen, but you took the wrong meaning from that person’s comment.
Hmm, not sure if a 20% increase is revenue from the existing buyers is going to make up for those 'cheap' customers but maybe should have taken the comment in good faith.

Both are possible ways to get more publisher rev. Dropped prices, increased sales at same margin or same prices and increased margin.
 

Dr Bass

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That was my point.

That is the point many of us have beenamijg about Game Pass. It leads down a road of games being devalued, MS needing to subsidize content, and bigger games being impossible to really make for competitors who can’t afford the same behavior. We’ve seen it with Amazon. We’ve seen what Apple has done to the perception of software. None of this is good except for the first wave of GP consumers saving a couple bucks.

The whole thing seems to fall on mostly deaf ears. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Hmm, not sure if a 20% increase is revenue from the existing buyers is going to make up for those 'cheap' customers but maybe should have taken the comment in good faith.

Both are possible ways to get more publisher rev. Dropped prices, increased sales at same margin or same prices and increased margin.
As I said in the post, I’m not saying I agree with what was said by the other poster, but it was nothing to do with the end price, like you said. The idea was to appease developers for a potential loss in sales with Gamepass giving people too much to play. I don’t think it will make enough of a difference, honestly.
 
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SenjutsuSage

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Let’s pretend “exclusive streaming rights” isn’t part of the deal, and spend the rest months of gaming drought hyping up a business move that hasn’t happened.

Xbox LiVe Gold free when?????

Game Pass buddy, game pass.
 

laynelane

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They made the article before Microsoft answered them, and even so, due to the nature of the documents and stuff, they could still deny that they were doing any changes.

Are you referring to this?

The documents also reveal that Microsoft had been planning to adopt this lower store rate on the PC side with an important caveat. “There is a proposal currently under Gaming Leadership Team consideration to adopt 88 / 12 as a public PC games revenue share for all games in exchange for the grant of streaming rights to Microsoft,” reveals the document. We asked Microsoft whether this proposal went ahead, but the company refused to comment in time for publication. Microsoft is planning to cut its share of revenue for PC games to 12 percent in August, but it’s not clear if the streaming rights clause is still included.

I don't see anything about reducing the XBox store cut and shaking up the console world here.
 

IDKFA

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Christ on a bike!

Microsoft really are the good guys of gaming and Phil Spencer is probably the closest thing we have on earth to a living saint.
 

DaGwaphics

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Are you referring to this?

The documents also reveal that Microsoft had been planning to adopt this lower store rate on the PC side with an important caveat. “There is a proposal currently under Gaming Leadership Team consideration to adopt 88 / 12 as a public PC games revenue share for all games in exchange for the grant of streaming rights to Microsoft,” reveals the document. We asked Microsoft whether this proposal went ahead, but the company refused to comment in time for publication. Microsoft is planning to cut its share of revenue for PC games to 12 percent in August, but it’s not clear if the streaming rights clause is still included.

I don't see anything about reducing the XBox store cut and shaking up the console world here.

The leaked documents allude to the same cut being planned on the Xbox store. With epic going so far as to apparently list this as a given for 2021, not that something couldn't have changed from what this was based on.
 
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laynelane

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The leaked documents allude to the same cut being planned on the Xbox store. With epic going so far as to apparently list this as a given for 2021, not that something couldn't have changed from what this was based on.

I read that too, but I can't think of even one solid reason to not get confirmation before printing an article with that headline. It's clickbait and far too many journalists employ the same tactic.
 

Hendrick's

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Just remember guys it is Tom Warrior.
It can be true? It can.
But remember the Live Gold being free started with him.

He never said how long we needed to be patient. It's inevitable at this point, so not the boldest of predictions.
 
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Captain Toad

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So... the rumor is they want to drop the revenue cut, but their statement is they have no plans to drop the revenue cut?

You guys and your constant Xbox rumors.
 

DaGwaphics

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So... the rumor is they want to drop the revenue cut, but their statement is they have no plans to drop the revenue cut?

You guys and your constant Xbox rumors.

Not exactly a random blind rumor. Epic list these reductions for both the PC and Xbox for 2021, and we've already seen the PC store announce this change. Is it a confirmed fact, absolutely not, but with Epic not exactly out of the loop and the PC store already announcing the change, this isn't some random forum "insider" jerking us around. Even if it turns to nothing, no harm and kicking around the idea.
 

yazenov

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Two things that comes to mind from this move by Microsoft if true :

1- MS's software sales must be very low for them to even consider this move, and taking a hit on their profit margins however low it may be out of desperation. Those 90% to 10% software split in favor of the PS5 really got them worried.

2- Mind share. Those two next generation consoles just launched and all people are taking about is the PS5. The social media metrics, News and mind share are all overwhelmingly in favor of the PS5. So Microsoft had to do something to sway the momentum since their games are still long ways to go from release, and the pandamic added more days to their release schedule.

I think Microsoft needs more than services or features to sway people to their ecosystem. You know, they could learn from what Sony and Nintendo are doing which lead to their success. They could release actuall quality games. No need for bullshit and gimmicks. Games!
 
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DaGwaphics

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They just announced their best quarter ever in terms of revenue from third-parties a few months ago. LOL

But you keep pounding that drum yazenov yazenov .
 
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elliot5

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Two things that comes to mind from this move by Microsoft if true :

1- MS's software sales must be very low for them to even consider this move, and taking a hit on their profit margins however low it may be out of desperation. Those 90% to 10% software split in favor of the PS5 really got them worried.

2- Mind share. Those two next generation consoles just launch and all people are taking about is the PS5. The social media metrics, News and mind share are all overwhelmingly in favor of the PS5. So Microsoft had to do something to sway the momentum since their games are still long ways to go from release, and the pandamic added more days to their release schedule.

I think Microsoft needs more than services or features to sway people to their ecosystem. You know, they could learn from what Sony and Nintendo are doing which lead to their success. They could release actuall quality games. No need for bullshit and gimmicks. Games!
I don't think NieR Replicant UK physical copy share split is making Satya and Phil quake in their boots. This is all about enticing development for their platform from third parties, getting streaming rights from said third parties, and ultimately driving Game Pass subscriptions.
 
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Dabaus

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Two things that comes to mind from this move by Microsoft if true :

1- MS's software sales must be very low for them to even consider this move, and taking a hit on their profit margins however low it may be out of desperation. Those 90% to 10% software split in favor of the PS5 really got them worried.

2- Mind share. Those two next generation consoles just launch and all people are taking about is the PS5. The social media metrics, News and mind share are all overwhelmingly in favor of the PS5. So Microsoft had to do something to sway the momentum since their games are still long ways to go from release, and the pandamic added more days to their release schedule.

I think Microsoft needs more than services or features to sway people to their ecosystem. You know, they could learn from what Sony and Nintendo are doing which lead to their success. They could release actuall quality games. No need for bullshit and gimmicks. Games!
It seems like MS strategy at face value is the be set up for next generation, that is the ps6 generation before all these plans come to fruition but in the mean time slash rates here, dollar deals there, and remove the cash cow that is Xbox gold. I don’t see the point of bleeding billions for the next 5-10 years hoping streaming will take off when it’s crashed and burned every time it’s been tried.
 
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Gamezone

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Microsoft announced the 12% deal on PC because they don't sell games on PC. Well, maybe they do, but people aren't buying them. They use Gamepass at best. Microsoft do however sell games on Steam, so obviously they want to go the EGS route and try to push Valve towards a lower cut. On Xbox however, not gonna happen.
 

Hugare

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Funny how every move that MS makes is only possible because they are filthy rich

Game Pass, reducing the store cut, buying studios ....

That's one way of being competitive, I guess. Sony would have to reduce their cut at least to 20%, I imagine.

It's not like big publishers are needing money (but I'm sure that they would be happy with this news), so that would be a more beneficial move for indies mostly
 

yazenov

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It seems like MS strategy at face value is the be set up for next generation, that is the ps6 generation before all these plans come to fruition but in the mean time slash rates here, dollar deals there, and remove the cash cow that is Xbox gold. I don’t see the point of bleeding billions for the next 5-10 years hoping streaming will take off when it’s crashed and burned every time it’s been tried.

Agreed. Most of these moves Microsoft are making are long-term strategies that won't be taken into effect right away.

It seems that they know this generation is Sony's for the taking and its too late for any momentum shifts as their plan might come to fruition late gen or next generation.
 

Negotiator101

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This is a pretty big deal.

This can only be seen as a good thing for the industry. Hopefully Playstation, and Nintendo follow suite.
Don't hold your breath, Phil Spencer (who is driving all this amazing business decisions) is a pioneer and a visionary. PS and Nintendo are living in the past and are happy doing the same old thing. Great news for developers working on Xbox games.
 
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Markio128

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I think they should start opening these threads with ‘Once upon a time….’ It reminds me of the football transfer window in the UK. Just constant rumours based on something somebody said who is a mate of a players uncle.
 

reinking

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Pretty disappointing to hear.
Why? This was not a straight cut in dollars MS was willing to give back to developers. It would come with strings attached that would have cost developers money in other areas (mostly with the competition). While it would probably be good for MS and sometimes for the developer this was not MS coming in to white knight for developers. They have ulterior motives.

My guess, this was explored because of the Epic vs Apple case. MS was vocal about supporting Epic so I am sure they were looking at ways they could backup their support with action. Costs is probably too prohibitive on console markets right now without getting some form of compensation on the backend.
 
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skit_data

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Tom Warrens twitter reads like

”JESUS IS BACK, HE IS BACK Y’ALL! Now the blasphemers shall suffer and perish before our almighty lord! Ye shall fear his retribution against the unbelievers!”

5 mins later

”Jesus is not coming back. Hes probably not even real. I just got temporarily convinced reading the bible this morning”
 

DaGwaphics

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Pretty disappointing to hear.

The whole topic doesn't really mean anything for us directly anyway. It's just something we could speculate on regarding what this could have meant for the direction of Xbox and Xcloud in general. We wouldn't have saved a dollar either way.
 

elliot5

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Why? This was not a straight cut in dollars MS was willing to give back to developers. It would come with strings attached that would have cost developers money in other areas (mostly with the competition). While it would probably be good for MS and sometimes for the developer this was not MS coming in to white knight for developers. They have ulterior motives.

My guess, this was explored because of the Epic vs Apple case. MS was vocal about supporting Epic so I am sure they were looking at ways they could backup their support with action. Costs is probably too prohibitive on console markets right now without getting some form of compensation on the backend.
I understand it wouldn't be out of charity. I've commented my thoughts on it in this thread. I don't see how it would cost developers in other areas with competition, when as far as we know it related to cloud rights. I still would have liked to see a lower cut because more money back to developers is better. Microsoft would just be betting they make up for it with game pass ultimate.
 
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Klayzer

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Agreed. Most of these moves Microsoft are making are long-term strategies that won't be taken into effect right away.

It seems that they know this generation is Sony's for the taking and its too late for any momentum shifts as their plan might come to fruition late gen or next generation.
Some of the same stuff was said at the end of last gen as well.
 
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jroc74

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So Sony's safe now?

Whew!! They dodged a huge bullet there.











/S
 

jroc74

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Don't hold your breath, Phil Spencer (who is driving all this amazing business decisions) is a pioneer and a visionary. PS and Nintendo are living in the past and are happy doing the same old thing. Great news for developers working on Xbox games.
The Switch and PSVR would like a word with you.

Its ok if your preferred platform, company does things you like.

There's no need to try to dismiss what the others are doing to prop your fav company up tho.
 

onesvenus

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That is the point many of us have beenamijg about Game Pass. It leads down a road of games being devalued, MS needing to subsidize content, and bigger games being impossible to really make for competitors who can’t afford the same behavior. We’ve seen it with Amazon. We’ve seen what Apple has done to the perception of software. None of this is good except for the first wave of GP consumers saving a couple bucks.

The whole thing seems to fall on mostly deaf ears. 🤷‍♂️
So, why is that model working for Netflix, who is having more and more oscar nominated films each year, then? If its own produced movies are getting better and better, why should Microsoft games lower their quality?
Two things that comes to mind from this move by Microsoft if true :

1- MS's software sales must be very low for them to even consider this move, and taking a hit on their profit margins however low it may be out of desperation. Those 90% to 10% software split in favor of the PS5 really got them worried.

2- Mind share. Those two next generation consoles just launched and all people are taking about is the PS5. The social media metrics, News and mind share are all overwhelmingly in favor of the PS5. So Microsoft had to do something to sway the momentum since their games are still long ways to go from release, and the pandamic added more days to their release schedule.

I think Microsoft needs more than services or features to sway people to their ecosystem. You know, they could learn from what Sony and Nintendo are doing which lead to their success. They could release actuall quality games. No need for bullshit and gimmicks. Games!
Yeah, let's pretend the obvious argument here, which is giving publishers more reasons to publish games on xbox, does not exist.
Indeed… 😔.
I fail to see such a black future as you see. Streaming movies hasn't really devaluated movie quality. Netflix has had a record year taking into account Oscar nominations.
Why should it happen to gaming? Blockbusters are still being made by streaming platforms
 

Negotiator101

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The Switch and PSVR would like a word with you.

Its ok if your preferred platform, company does things you like.

There's no need to try to dismiss what the others are doing to prop your fav company up tho.
What are they doing to drive the industry forward?

Xbox are giving more to the developer's, Xbox have created a compelling, content rich and incredible value for money subscription service. Xcloud is growing and once integrated into Gamepass will be the premier game streaming service. Xbox are the only platform owner that releases all first party games on console and PC day one. Cross platform play, saves etc, they are giving players a choice and not trying to lock them in to one platform.

I don't need to own an Xbox to play Microsoft games and their biggest IP's, they don't force me to buy their latest box and that's why I think they are leading the industry forward.
 

jroc74

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What are they doing to drive the industry forward?

Xbox are giving more to the developer's, Xbox have created a compelling, content rich and incredible value for money subscription service. Xcloud is growing and once integrated into Gamepass will be the premier game streaming service. Xbox are the only platform owner that releases all first party games on console and PC day one. Cross platform play, saves etc, they are giving players a choice and not trying to lock them in to one platform.

I don't need to own an Xbox to play Microsoft games and their biggest IP's, they don't force me to buy their latest box and that's why I think they are leading the industry forward.
Your words:

"Phil is a pioneer and visionary, Sony and Nintendo are living in the past and happy doing the same old thing"

Again, The Switch and PSVR would like a word with you.

Sony and Nintendo were doing cross play before the PS4 and XBO came out.

Sony started doing a downloadable games service on the PS3.

Sony has been doing game streaming since the PS3.

Releasing first party games day one on a game service is about the only thing that makes Game Pass any different than other services before it. Hell, EAAccess was out long before Game Pass.....started out on consoles on XBO...... and had a big library.




Again, Its ok if your preferred platform, company does things you like.

There's no need to try to dismiss what the others are doing to prop your fav company up tho.
 
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Markio128

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What are they doing to drive the industry forward?

Xbox are giving more to the developer's, Xbox have created a compelling, content rich and incredible value for money subscription service. Xcloud is growing and once integrated into Gamepass will be the premier game streaming service. Xbox are the only platform owner that releases all first party games on console and PC day one. Cross platform play, saves etc, they are giving players a choice and not trying to lock them in to one platform.

I don't need to own an Xbox to play Microsoft games and their biggest IP's, they don't force me to buy their latest box and that's why I think they are leading the industry forward.
I don’t get this argument. You need some form of technology (such as a console/capable PC or capable tablet/phone) to play their games, so you are forced to buy something - and something not particularly cheap either. If you want to play Sony or Nintendo games, you just buy a PS5, or a Switch. Literally no difference at all. And my idea of driving the industry forward is by releasing award winning games and introducing exciting new peripherals, such as the dual sense and PSVR. People are buying the Switch in droves because of the ability to play games on a handheld and because there are a plethora of great games. Other than MS releasing a subscription service, which is nothing new, I’m not sure how they are driving the industry forward at all. All MS’s best work happened years ago when they released exciting games on OG Xbox/360, along with achievements and solid console online play.

EDIT: I would add that MS have failed to capitalise on what made them great.
 
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