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The Sega Saturn - What happened?

RAIDEN1

Member
I am aware that there have been countless Sega Saturn threads, but with the recent release of this video I thought it would be good to share! :messenger_grinning_smiling: The system has a fascinating history (well documented) and was one of the key nails in the coffin for Sega in the hardware business, but at the same time had Neo-Geo 2d capabilities and was a more affordable system than SNK's arcade at home system...

 

Mr Hyde

Member
Nice. I loved my Sega Saturn. Had all the classics, such as Burning Rangers, Nights, Panzer Dragoon, Guardian Heroes, Dark Savior, Clockwork Knight, Last Bronx etc. During this time, I didn't really follow the industry so I didn't know of Sega's previous failures and how bad Saturn did in comparison to Playstation. I thought Sega was trucking along fine, lol. Was quite shocked when I learned what a failure Saturn was, how Sega botched the US launch, how difficult it was to develop games for the console and how Playstation completely curb stomped it. Still a legendary console in my eyes with a banging software library.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
When you are launching your console amid a civil war in the company you know it doesn't bode well.....look at Sony more or less everyone was pulling in the same direction for the Playstation...where as at Sega the U.S and Japanese arms had mistrust for one another...
 

lachesis

Member
I think biggest issue with Sega games were because they were so arcade oriented in their big gun games... and market shift was becoming very obvious.
Home console games are different from arcade - and I just get a feeling that they really didn't take unique home console experiences very seriously. I mean, as serious as they should have been to add some meaningful addition to their arcade games - and they let 3rd party devs to fill in that gap, more so than their competitors. I'm not sure if it's company's stance - or dev's stance... (like Suzuki) - I get a feeling it's something more of both. They probably wanted the synergy between home console and their arcade business.

And it was already apparent, that things were starting to shift. Fighting games were still going strong - but other companies read the market, while Sega - being just Sega - didn't, or refused.
(And I love them for it - but I am just a minority - Still, I wish they were in HW business)
 

cireza

Member
I am aware that there have been countless Sega Saturn threads, but with the recent release of this video I thought it would be good to share! :messenger_grinning_smiling: The system has a fascinating history (well documented) and was one of the key nails in the coffin for Sega in the hardware business, but at the same time had Neo-Geo 2d capabilities and was a more affordable system than SNK's arcade at home system...

Good video overall, except for this part :

VDP2 was rumored to be included later in development

First time I hear this one ! Makes absolutely no sense.
 

Elysion

Banned
The Saturn managed to outsell the N64 in Japan, didn’t it? Maybe in Europe too, though I‘m less sure about that. In Japan the Saturn was even able to compete with the PS1 for the first few years, before FF7 came out. The N64 was only saved from being a Saturn level flop by its strong performance in North America compared to the rest of the world; it‘s quite remarkable how much Nintendo fell off from the heights of the SNES era during that time.

In other words, Sega wasn‘t the only one who struggled against the Sony juggernaut back then.
 

Naked Lunch

Member
I know its failure is well documented but in hindsight - the Saturn is one of gaming's best libraries for the hardcore gamer. Shmups and fighting games in particular. Its Japanese releases are just riddled with hidden gems. Anyone serious about skill based arcade action games simply needs to own one - especially because the emulation still isnt up to snuff all these years later.

Saturn's best 2d games make you wonder what could have been - it was the next big jump for 2d gaming over the Mega Drive and SNES - stuff like Princess Crown, Assault Suit Leynos 2, and Guardians Heroes were doing stuff with 2d that we still havent seem duplicated all these years later. The zooming in and out of sprites stuff of those games is still striking.

Devs of the time jumped on the primitive 3d polygon PS1-style games bandwagon and abandoned the 2d space. And the indie devs of today trying to emulate the Saturn style simply dont have the talent.

Ill never un-hook up my Saturn. That shmup library is just too good and its nice always having the Panzer Dragoons ready to go.
 
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SkylineRKR

Member
2D was on the way out. The industry moved to 3d planes. 2D was being looked down upon at the time. It was time for something new. Saturn could do 3D, but was bested by PSX which was also easier to develop for and it was cheaper.

Sega was the bad boy around the corner with the Genesis, and failed to capitalize on it with Saturn. Many popular Genesis games weren't seen on Saturn, there wasn't even a proper and truly new Sonic game for example. Sony captured a much broader audience meanwhile. But in the first year, the difference between the 2 wasn't even that big. PSX and Saturn saw many similar games, PSX however moved on and Saturn was kinda stuck. Sega mainly had arcade games, which weren't as popular anymore. Playstation started to take a lead and Sega wasn't able to make a profit off the Saturn. The console just kind of faded in obscurity while PSX became the defacto system for many.

Saturn has many great games, especially via import. You had to look for them, but I amassed about 80 ish games for it some 20 years ago. They were affordable back then, most of them at least. But Playstation easily had a more versatile library with immersive experiences like MGS, GT and FF. Sega could never really deliver on this front. With DC they repeated the same thing, many arcade games no one really wanted anymore. It was simply Sega's jam and we didn't buy it. I can't say Saturn is better than PSX, as in the end I got more mileage out of the Square games, RE sequels, Tekken, GT etc. But I will say that playing XvSF and Vampire Savior with 4mb cart on Saturn felt like a generation ahead. This experience was simply not possible on PSX.

That Saturn would became a cult hit makes sense, as it has many awesome niche 2D shmups and fighters. They also hold up remarkably well. Many have been ported over though, but not all of them.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
The Saturn managed to outsell the N64 in Japan, didn’t it? Maybe in Europe too, though I‘m less sure about that. In Japan the Saturn was even able to compete with the PS1 for the first few years, before FF7 came out. The N64 was only saved from being a Saturn level flop by its strong performance in North America compared to the rest of the world; it‘s quite remarkable how much Nintendo fell off from the heights of the SNES era during that time.

In other words, Sega wasn‘t the only one who struggled against the Sony juggernaut back then.

In Japan yes, the Saturn actually sold better than N64 there. It was Sega's most succesful console in Japan. Carried by the likes of Sakura Taisen and VF2. But Europe? I am very sure the N64 outsold the Saturn by a wide margin. Saturn was pretty much being ignored from 1997 onwards, many stores didn't carry it anymore. N64 was available until the new millenium, like PSX.

In fact I had to advise people not to buy a Saturn at some point. We sold it for the equivalent of 100 bucks, and the PSX was about 150 ish I think. But I would tell the Saturn is actually more powerful, it can do certain things very well, however its support is dying. Its funny how this all works. Before N64 came out, we were hyping it up like the next best thing and even saying to consumers that CDs are prone to damage while cartridges are more safe. But when the cat was out of the bag, we were all PSX. Biggest stream of games, best distributions and profits. Its also about distribution, that Sony won this generation by a landslide. Sega and Nintendo were really stuck in the past, where it was kind of normal, but the gaming industry evolved and Sony understood it better than those 2. Especially cartridges were a pain.
 
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Reading EGM from the period where PSX and Saturn were out but N64 wasn't is really interesting. There was this feeling that the Saturn was kind of a dud very quickly, and PSX was doing well, but N64 would come out and destroy the market. It didn't quite work out that way.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
What happened ?
It is the best video game of all time :pie_raybans:(y)
This is what happened :lollipop_sunglasses:

I can tell you didn’t buy one at launch.

For those that aren’t familiar the system has a surprise launch in May, that was so bungled they didn’t even inform third party publishers they were doing it. They didn’t even include all retailers which cause one big toy chain to give Sega the middle finger, and refuse to carry it.

So literally a $399 system launch, with no more games available for months. Imagine how even more of a disaster the Saturn would’ve been if this happened in this day and age of social media. It would’ve been ridiculed to an even earlier death.

By the time the games started trickling out the PlayStation arrived with better 3D, at $100 less - and it kicked the ever living shit out of Saturn. Watching all the big announcements coming to PlayStation while Saturn was ignored.

Yeah, it was fun being the early launch buyer.
 
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dave_d

Member
I can tell you didn’t buy one at launch.

For those that aren’t familiar the system has a surprise launch in May, that was so bungled they didn’t even inform third party publishers they were doing it. They didn’t even include all retailers which cause one big toy chain to give Sega the middle finger, and refuse to carry it.

So literally a $399 system launch, with no more games available for months. Imagine how even more of a disaster the Saturn would’ve been if this happened in this day and age of social media. It would’ve been ridiculed to an even earlier death.

By the time the games started trickling out the PlayStation arrived with better 3D, at $100 less - and it kicked the ever living shit out of Saturn. Watching all the big announcements coming to PlayStation while Saturn was ignored.

Yeah, it was fun being the early launch buyer.
What's worse about all of that is by surprise launching it, Sega basically guaranteed that magazines couldn't cover the launch. This also meant they didn't put a lot of pages in their magazines in the next coming months since there was nothing to report. But of course they covered the Playstation since that wasn't out yet and there was something to report on. (Long story short, they let Sony get exclusive advertising in all the gaming mags at the time.)
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It rocked and has an amazing library of games (more than any kid could buy with their lunch money so who cares if PS had more), that's what happened. Bonus that it had so many more gems stay in Japan so we still get awesome new releases thanks to fan translations 30 years later. GOAT system.


 
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RAIDEN1

Member
I used to go on the saying that the Saturn came out with 1992 technology in 1995...though it did first come together pretty much soon after the Jap launch of the Mega CD, so this was no overnight project, but it ended up being a mess of a development environment because of Sega being blindsided by Sony, once they got wind of the fact that Sony's machine was somewhat more future proof than Sega, then I think they decided that they needed a VDP2
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I used to go on the saying that the Saturn came out with 1992 technology in 1995...though it did first come together pretty much soon after the Jap launch of the Mega CD, so this was no overnight project, but it ended up being a mess of a development environment because of Sega being blindsided by Sony, once they got wind of the fact that Sony's machine was somewhat more future proof than Sega, then I think they decided that they needed a VDP2

Saturn was notoriously difficult to work with, while PlayStation was a breeze. Seeing people in 2022-2023 claim it was more powerful is hilarious. Sure, it might’ve been on paper, but in the real world the results were night and day worse - unless you were talking 2D. And that was something nobody gave a shit about because 3D was the hot new thing in arcades, now being brought home.

I still remember the horrendous pop in in Daytona USA.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
Saturn was notoriously difficult to work with, while PlayStation was a breeze. Seeing people in 2022-2023 claim it was more powerful is hilarious. Sure, it might’ve been on paper, but in the real world the results were night and day worse - unless you were talking 2D. And that was something nobody gave a shit about because 3D was the hot new thing in arcades, now being brought home.

I still remember the horrendous pop in in Daytona USA.
I think Daytona was more a rushed release than what should have been the case, hence why they ended up releasing another version which was more improved graphically...pop in was a thing though in the 32 bit generation....even Sega Rally had some but not as bad as Daytona
 
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nush

Member
But Europe? I am very sure the N64 outsold the Saturn by a wide margin. Saturn was pretty much being ignored from 1997 onwards, many stores didn't carry it anymore.

You know, basically in Europe the Saturn hardware sales dropped 50% year on year. Here's a fact not many people know, the Megadrive actually started to outsell the Saturn and it was only available in Argos with the 6 game cartridge, that's how bad it got.

I fucking love my Saturn, top ten system for me.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
We live in a world of "what if"....what if the Saturn wasn't as bad a failure as it ended up...who knows Sega may have continued till at least 2004
 

Scotty W

Gold Member
Sega always worked with a dual chipset: Genesis plus Sega CD, Gen plus 32x.

The original plan for Saturn was to have a dual 32x chip, but at the last minute they realized they needed to be able to do 3d, so they swapped one of the boards for an AM2 chip, which can do pre-rendered 3d.
 
As a Sega guy, the Saturn was both amazing and frustrating.
Some of the games were legendary, but the fact that it was difficult to program vs the ease of the PS1, really hurt it.
Sometimes,.when someone knew how to program it, it could outperform the PS1, but mostly that wasn't the case.
One thing that really hurt it was lack.of transparency effects. Smoke looked like a ugly mesh effect for instance.

Make no bones about it, the majority of gamers were still about having that arcade experience at home, but Sony was really smart and paid Namco and Konami big money to be exclusive to the PS.
So Namco would go hit for hit in the arcades experience with Sega.
Sega had Daytona, Namco had Ridge Racer. Sega had VF, Namco had Tekken. Sega had VC, Namco had Time Crisis.
If Sony didn't have Namco, it might have been a very different story.
 

Crayon

Member
So many things went wrong. Including things out of their control like Americans ambivalence to vf.

Nin v Sega, had Sony never came, would have been neat to see.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
What happened, not being able to play alot of 3D games as well as PS1. What games happened…Final Fantasy 7,8, 9, Tactics. Tekken. Crash. GT1–2. Silent Hill. RE2-3 and MGS… Thats what mostly happened along with some other games.

I love my Sega Saturn. Probably amognst my favourite consoles top 3 or 5 for sure.
The Japanese Saturn was Probably the best 2D fighting and shmup console ever. And Id put it up there for top 3-5 for JRPG consoles easily.
It outsold Nintendo / N64 in Japan.

My 7 favourite games are on the console. Shining Force 3 and Guardian Heroes being 1 and 2. CastleVania Symphony of the Night, PanzerDragoon Saga, Grandia Xmen VS Street Fighter, SF Alpha 2 being the others.
So many great games from Radiant Silver Gun, Saturn Bomberman, RE. Virtua Fighter 2, Baku Baku Animal, Burning Rangers, Dark Saviour and so many more.
 
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Naked Lunch

Member
Is Saturn emulation not good? Is it like PS3 emulation?
We're still not there yet from what ive tried and heard. The mister has had many many recent Saturn updates - but its still not 100%.

The company City Connection has been releasing 'S-Tribute' branded games on modern consoles - which are literally using the Saturn emulator ZebraEngine - but even those ports have been off and some plagued with input lag like the Cotton 100% ports. Others fare well though like Elevator Action Returns and hopefully the upcoming Batsugun port. So its kinda all over the place from my experiences.

It runs fine. I recently played Panzer Dragoon Saga on the mac and had no problems. That includes “changing discs”
Eh - playing a turn based RPG is one thing - compared to precise input sensitive shmups. This is all kinda subjective though and different people will feel input lag in different ways. Performance wise - some games definitely run better than others.
 
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Kokoloko85

Member
Eh - playing a turn based RPG is one thing - compared to precise input sensitive shmups. This is all kinda subjective though and different people will feel input lag in different ways. Performance wise - some games definitely run better than others.

True, I havent tried it more than a few games which ran great
 
Reading EGM from the period where PSX and Saturn were out but N64 wasn't is really interesting. There was this feeling that the Saturn was kind of a dud very quickly, and PSX was doing well, but N64 would come out and destroy the market. It didn't quite work out that way.

Not just EGM; I've been reading a lot of Next Generation from that period on Archive and they seem to have had a roughly similar sentiment; PS1 was were it was really at, Saturn was good but had lots of problems and slimmer chances of coming forth. "Ultra 64" as it was known up to that point, would be the upset and had strong potential to dethrone the PS1 (this was especially the sentiment shortly after the N64 launched and there were periods where it did outsell PS1 in NA through its first year).

Also interesting is the perception of PS1 vs Saturn in Japan from their first year or so. It's actually potentially questionable if Sega ever had a lead over PS1 in terms of sold-through (to customers) because they were reporting on sell-in (to retailers). I guess some Western publications were looking more at the sold-through hence why sometimes when reporting on Japan the mention seemed to be Saturn barely had a sales advantage or PS1 was actually outselling it. And this is before FF VII released over there, FWIW.

Is Saturn emulation not good? Is it like PS3 emulation?

No, it's pretty solid and has been for a while. If you've got an even mildly modern desktop or laptop from the past 10 years, and a decent amount of RAM (4-8 GB) plus a SSD, you shouldn't have any problems.

As a Sega guy, the Saturn was both amazing and frustrating.
Some of the games were legendary, but the fact that it was difficult to program vs the ease of the PS1, really hurt it.
Sometimes,.when someone knew how to program it, it could outperform the PS1, but mostly that wasn't the case.
One thing that really hurt it was lack.of transparency effects. Smoke looked like a ugly mesh effect for instance.

Make no bones about it, the majority of gamers were still about having that arcade experience at home, but Sony was really smart and paid Namco and Konami big money to be exclusive to the PS.
So Namco would go hit for hit in the arcades experience with Sega.
Sega had Daytona, Namco had Ridge Racer. Sega had VF, Namco had Tekken. Sega had VC, Namco had Time Crisis.
If Sony didn't have Namco, it might have been a very different story.

Konami probably had business reasons to go elsewhere as they had a handful of games in development for 32X that had to be cancelled when that peripheral was killed off, and the PS1 most likely looked to be the easier system to work with. Perhaps at some point they may've planned for, say, MGS to go to Saturn but those would have been plans way back in 1995-1996, and scrapped in 1997 when Bernie Stolar opened his mouth, killing off remaining 3P support in the West.

Namco already had a partnership with Sony for System 12 tech in the arcade, which they used for games like Tekken. I do think their rivalry with Sega in the arcade scene might've made them more inclined to work with Sony on the home console front that gen because why end up playing second fiddle to your rival on your rival's home console? And again, PS1 just looked like a better system to work with programming-wise. There was actually more financial gain for them in terms of marketing presence by going with Sony over Sega, as I'm sure Sony put in some marketing money for Ridge Racer, Tekken etc. that Namco would never have gotten with Sega.
 

Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
I loved my Saturn. I was team Sega from the genesis through the dreamcast I even had a Sega CD and game gear. I've been team Nintendo since Sega died. I did own a PS2 though but that's the only Sony console I've ever owned.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I think Daytona was more a rushed release than what should have been the case, hence why they ended up releasing another version which was more improved graphically...pop in was a thing though in the 32 bit generation....even Sega Rally had some but not as bad as Daytona

I don’t think it was rushed, but rather the tools improved over time, and developers became more familiar with the system. I mean, that was always a thing with consoles back then. As Games that released later in the system’s life always looked way better than what the system launched with.
Even on PlayStation the difference between Tekken and Tekken 3 was enormous, as was Ace Combat. On Saturn Virtua Fighter 2 looked soooo much better than Virtua Fighter. Same with Virtua Fighter Deluxe (I forget what the texture mapped VF1 remake was called).
 
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ReBurn

Gold Member
Saturn still has the best versions of Soukyugurentai and tThunder Force V.
And Radiant Silvergun.

I still have a Saturn but I don't play it as much as I used to. I love pretty much anything Sega. Still have 2 Genesis consoles and my Dreamcast as well. I pretty much abandoned it when the PlayStation released, though.
 
Not just EGM; I've been reading a lot of Next Generation from that period on Archive and they seem to have had a roughly similar sentiment; PS1 was were it was really at, Saturn was good but had lots of problems and slimmer chances of coming forth. "Ultra 64" as it was known up to that point, would be the upset and had strong potential to dethrone the PS1 (this was especially the sentiment shortly after the N64 launched and there were periods where it did outsell PS1 in NA through its first year).

Also interesting is the perception of PS1 vs Saturn in Japan from their first year or so. It's actually potentially questionable if Sega ever had a lead over PS1 in terms of sold-through (to customers) because they were reporting on sell-in (to retailers). I guess some Western publications were looking more at the sold-through hence why sometimes when reporting on Japan the mention seemed to be Saturn barely had a sales advantage or PS1 was actually outselling it. And this is before FF VII released over there, FWIW.



No, it's pretty solid and has been for a while. If you've got an even mildly modern desktop or laptop from the past 10 years, and a decent amount of RAM (4-8 GB) plus a SSD, you shouldn't have any problems.



Konami probably had business reasons to go elsewhere as they had a handful of games in development for 32X that had to be cancelled when that peripheral was killed off, and the PS1 most likely looked to be the easier system to work with. Perhaps at some point they may've planned for, say, MGS to go to Saturn but those would have been plans way back in 1995-1996, and scrapped in 1997 when Bernie Stolar opened his mouth, killing off remaining 3P support in the West.

Namco already had a partnership with Sony for System 12 tech in the arcade, which they used for games like Tekken. I do think their rivalry with Sega in the arcade scene might've made them more inclined to work with Sony on the home console front that gen because why end up playing second fiddle to your rival on your rival's home console? And again, PS1 just looked like a better system to work with programming-wise. There was actually more financial gain for them in terms of marketing presence by going with Sony over Sega, as I'm sure Sony put in some marketing money for Ridge Racer, Tekken etc. that Namco would never have gotten with Sega.
Sony was in the right spot, at the right time, with the right hardware, and the right games.
It was a awesome entry into the console buisess. I owned a PS1 and a Saturn.
 
From the perspective of a Jr High kid back in the mid-90's, the brilliant Saturn was a victim of just a lot of bad marketing and misinformation.
This was, of course, before the days of the internet being available to the mass market. We who played video games relied heavily on gaming magazines, game store employees, and fellow nerds to help determine our next purchases. We were at first confused as to what exactly the Saturn was after years of Genesis peripherals. I remember Babbages employees telling me (erroneously) that the Saturn was going to be just the same as a Genesis+SegaCD+32X, and that the cartridge socket was for Genesis games.
The growing Sony hype was also very real. Although people initially thought this newcomer to the electronic games industry was going to end up flopping like Panasonic, the more publishers they brought on board, and the more space they took up in gaming magazines hyping up the PlayStation, we realized that they were going to give Nintendo and Sega some serious competition.
Even after I figured out that the Saturn was a full-fledged new next-level console, I still didn't know too much about it nor about its games. As time went on, I heard less and less about the Saturn. I barely ever saw commercials for it. When I did, they were with that bald lady and bland game footage- it didn't speak to me and certainly didn't excite me. Gaming magazines didn't talk much about the Saturn, and when they did, it was about how "inferior" it supposedly was to the PlayStation. I don't remember seeing it often in stores; maybe once I might've seen a kiosk display with Clockwork Knight playing (memories are kinda fuzzy). I didn't know anyone who had one. I basically forgot about Sega in the late 90's until the viral marketing campaign for the Dreamcast began in '99.

Fast forward to 2007, and I was feeling nostalgic for Dungeons and Dragons arcade. I was a Mame newbie at the time and had no idea on how to get it to run on my PC. Through my research, I discovered it had been released in Japan on the Saturn. I called around and finally found a Japanese import shop in San Francisco that had Saturns in stock. This was before the retro-gaming fever craze, so they had a pretty big inventory of new and used consoles and games for cheap. Picked up the Saturn, along with D&D Collection, X-Men Vs SF, and Final Fight Revenge. This was my first time ever even touching a Saturn, and I was instantly sucked in. The controller was like 2D heaven in my hands. After I played those three to death, I scoured used game stores and the internet for more titles. Needless to say, I couldn't believe what I had been missing out on, and over the next few years, reveled in discovering hundreds of hidden gems and underrated quirky titles (especially from the expansive Japanese library). There are now literally thousands of videos and articles praising the Saturn and its library. It's amusing to me to see games that I paid 30-50 bucks (or less) for going for double, triple, or even ten times more than what I bought them for a decade and a half ago. But I think the Saturn is finally getting the recognition it deserves. Better late than never, I suppose.

TL;DR - The Saturn was unfairly maligned in the West and suffered from a disastrous marketing campaign, making it relatively obscure to the English-speaking world and easily outshone by the PlayStation and N64. I, like many others, only discovered the genius of the Saturn many years later after its demise. In modern day, it has gone from being an underrated system to highly-revered by gamers and collectors alike.

Is Saturn emulation not good? Is it like PS3 emulation?
Saturn emulation is wonderful to superb these days (for the majority of games)! As an example, I will just say that playing Bulk Slash using the XBox controller's dual thumbsticks to steer and navigate (instead of the Saturn controller's d-pad and shoulder buttons) and trigger buttons to shoot is pure joy! (PS3 emulation has vastly improved too- RPCS3 can play several titles at 60 fps as long as your PC is up to snuff)
 

Laieon

Member
The only person I've ever known who had one was 7-8 years older than me and most of the kids in my neighborhood. He used to babysit us every now and then. I remember loving Guardian Heroes, but that's literally the extent of my Sega Saturn knowledge.
 

Dane

Member
Basically dead on arrival in North America because they were amateurs by having massive fights between SoA and SoJ. The original plan was to release in September 95 to have enough software ready, instead by pushing as a surprise launch at E3 made developers pissed off as they were unaware and made larger retailers boycott the system for not getting supplies, also 100 dollars more.

It doesn't help that its hardware was complex as fuck and Sega of Japan refused to help third party developers unless they were making exclusives, it was a pain in the ass to have the humongous hardware working perfectly. They thought that there would be a progressive transition from 2D to 3D in the world by just basing their view in Japan since the headquarters was so jealous at how the american branch was responsible for the Mega Drive/Genesis sucess, turns out it could only apply to that country, because the rest of the world was ready to ditch 2D overnight, they saw these games as outdated and low budget.
The Saturn managed to outsell the N64 in Japan, didn’t it? Maybe in Europe too, though I‘m less sure about that. In Japan the Saturn was even able to compete with the PS1 for the first few years, before FF7 came out. The N64 was only saved from being a Saturn level flop by its strong performance in North America compared to the rest of the world; it‘s quite remarkable how much Nintendo fell off from the heights of the SNES era during that time.

In other words, Sega wasn‘t the only one who struggled against the Sony juggernaut back then.
Yes, but it did get beaten severely in the rest of the world, I think half of its sales came from Japan. Fun fact: The N64 was actually very competitive against the PS1 in North America where it sold most of its units (the PS1 sold there 50% more while worldwide was 300%).
In Japan yes, the Saturn actually sold better than N64 there. It was Sega's most succesful console in Japan. Carried by the likes of Sakura Taisen and VF2. But Europe? I am very sure the N64 outsold the Saturn by a wide margin. Saturn was pretty much being ignored from 1997 onwards, many stores didn't carry it anymore. N64 was available until the new millenium, like PSX.

In fact I had to advise people not to buy a Saturn at some point. We sold it for the equivalent of 100 bucks, and the PSX was about 150 ish I think. But I would tell the Saturn is actually more powerful, it can do certain things very well, however its support is dying. Its funny how this all works. Before N64 came out, we were hyping it up like the next best thing and even saying to consumers that CDs are prone to damage while cartridges are more safe. But when the cat was out of the bag, we were all PSX. Biggest stream of games, best distributions and profits. Its also about distribution, that Sony won this generation by a landslide. Sega and Nintendo were really stuck in the past, where it was kind of normal, but the gaming industry evolved and Sony understood it better than those 2. Especially cartridges were a pain.
Carts were too expensive, at the long run they really did outlive, but for the general consumer, they would sell their old stuff to buy new stuff in months to a couple of years, so who cares. Ironically the Saturn gotta be the worst system for that, because the american games are prone to disc rot, apparently because of a lower quality manufacture process, but I think its also because most games didn't have full paint coat on the disc so the metal data sheet was much more exposed.
 
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SmokedMeat

Gamer™
One interesting bit was the booklet that came with the Saturn showing off all the crazy hardware they had planned.

I don’t want to name specifics because it was like 1995, but I believe the Neptune was in there as well as the type of accessories you’d find on a computer.

I’m sure it’s got to be on the internet somewhere.

Edit: Tried looking around and I haven’t been able to find it. Maybe it was only in those surprise launch models, because it was chock full of stuff that never released.
 
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Dane

Member
One interesting bit was the booklet that came with the Saturn showing off all the crazy hardware they had planned.

I don’t want to name specifics because it was like 1995, but I believe the Neptune was in there as well as the type of accessories you’d find on a computer.

I’m sure it’s got to be on the internet somewhere.
Oh yeah, Neptune which even gave the idea for Neptunia RPG series. One point that Matt McMuscles video doesn't point is that Sega of Japan was ordering to kill most of the Sega Genesis production including software, Kalinske said that they could have still sold well in 95 and 96 as a very cheap alternative and that had left millions on the table in profits.

Another issue IIRC is that Sega did a lot of investments back in 92-96 that went very wrong, including in their amusement branch parks, so whatever money they could have to put the Saturn in the ventilator in the west until the Dreamcast launch wasn't there, that's why they had left the market there for a year and half.
 
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I used to go on the saying that the Saturn came out with 1992 technology in 1995...though it did first come together pretty much soon after the Jap launch of the Mega CD, so this was no overnight project, but it ended up being a mess of a development environment because of Sega being blindsided by Sony, once they got wind of the fact that Sony's machine was somewhat more future proof than Sega, then I think they decided that they needed a VDP2

Sega always worked with a dual chipset: Genesis plus Sega CD, Gen plus 32x.

The original plan for Saturn was to have a dual 32x chip, but at the last minute they realized they needed to be able to do 3d, so they swapped one of the boards for an AM2 chip, which can do pre-rendered 3d.



It was planned to be both 2d and 3d from the start, using the same kind of multiprocessing in their arcade machines. Sony was also changing things down the line according to 3rd parties' requests.
 
From the perspective of a Jr High kid back in the mid-90's, the brilliant Saturn was a victim of just a lot of bad marketing and misinformation.
This was, of course, before the days of the internet being available to the mass market. We who played video games relied heavily on gaming magazines, game store employees, and fellow nerds to help determine our next purchases. We were at first confused as to what exactly the Saturn was after years of Genesis peripherals. I remember Babbages employees telling me (erroneously) that the Saturn was going to be just the same as a Genesis+SegaCD+32X, and that the cartridge socket was for Genesis games.
The growing Sony hype was also very real. Although people initially thought this newcomer to the electronic games industry was going to end up flopping like Panasonic, the more publishers they brought on board, and the more space they took up in gaming magazines hyping up the PlayStation, we realized that they were going to give Nintendo and Sega some serious competition.
Even after I figured out that the Saturn was a full-fledged new next-level console, I still didn't know too much about it nor about its games. As time went on, I heard less and less about the Saturn. I barely ever saw commercials for it. When I did, they were with that bald lady and bland game footage- it didn't speak to me and certainly didn't excite me. Gaming magazines didn't talk much about the Saturn, and when they did, it was about how "inferior" it supposedly was to the PlayStation. I don't remember seeing it often in stores; maybe once I might've seen a kiosk display with Clockwork Knight playing (memories are kinda fuzzy). I didn't know anyone who had one. I basically forgot about Sega in the late 90's until the viral marketing campaign for the Dreamcast began in '99.

Fast forward to 2007, and I was feeling nostalgic for Dungeons and Dragons arcade. I was a Mame newbie at the time and had no idea on how to get it to run on my PC. Through my research, I discovered it had been released in Japan on the Saturn. I called around and finally found a Japanese import shop in San Francisco that had Saturns in stock. This was before the retro-gaming fever craze, so they had a pretty big inventory of new and used consoles and games for cheap. Picked up the Saturn, along with D&D Collection, X-Men Vs SF, and Final Fight Revenge. This was my first time ever even touching a Saturn, and I was instantly sucked in. The controller was like 2D heaven in my hands. After I played those three to death, I scoured used game stores and the internet for more titles. Needless to say, I couldn't believe what I had been missing out on, and over the next few years, reveled in discovering hundreds of hidden gems and underrated quirky titles (especially from the expansive Japanese library). There are now literally thousands of videos and articles praising the Saturn and its library. It's amusing to me to see games that I paid 30-50 bucks (or less) for going for double, triple, or even ten times more than what I bought them for a decade and a half ago. But I think the Saturn is finally getting the recognition it deserves. Better late than never, I suppose.

TL;DR - The Saturn was unfairly maligned in the West and suffered from a disastrous marketing campaign, making it relatively obscure to the English-speaking world and easily outshone by the PlayStation and N64. I, like many others, only discovered the genius of the Saturn many years later after its demise. In modern day, it has gone from being an underrated system to highly-revered by gamers and collectors alike.


Saturn emulation is wonderful to superb these days (for the majority of games)! As an example, I will just say that playing Bulk Slash using the XBox controller's dual thumbsticks to steer and navigate (instead of the Saturn controller's d-pad and shoulder buttons) and trigger buttons to shoot is pure joy! (PS3 emulation has vastly improved too- RPCS3 can play several titles at 60 fps as long as your PC is up to snuff)
Darkstalkers on Saturn was legit as far as 2d fighters went.
My best fun was with Nights, Daytona, VF, Fighting Vipers, Sega Rally, Sonic, VC, HOTD and the one I loved the most was Loaded and reloaded.
 

nkarafo

Member
Is Saturn emulation not good? Is it like PS3 emulation?

Mednafen/Beetle Saturn is very accurate and compatibility wise will play pretty much everything to completion.

I'd say Saturn emulation is even better than current N64 emulation (which is vastly improved the last few years).
 

nush

Member
the one I loved the most was Loaded and reloaded.

PlayStation ports?

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