Stormtrooper30
Member
Bungie is relocating again? With so many employees, they could end up making 4 games at one time... This could be bad.
Didn't they just relocate like last year?
Didn't they just relocate like last year?
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The Official Halo 3 Thread
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
- Status
Like I said, the fact that they cost money isn't the issue. It's the nonsense of partitioning off the multiplayer experience one pack at a time and holding back complete content for a stupid-ass long time. This is yet another imbecilic thing Microsoft has done to drive their customers batshit insane (half-hearted PC support, the Halo 2 Vista debacle, the closure of one of their most successful developers [Ensemble Studios], etc).kylej said:
Yay, I finally got the perfection achievement (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=84173933). Just as I predicted, I got it in BTB:
So many targets, so little BR ammo.
So many targets, so little BR ammo.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
A Penguin said:Yay, I finally got the perfection achievement (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=84173933). Just as I predicted, I got it in BTB:
So many targets, so little BR ammo.
Shame not for not using the 2 spare nades. =P
Nice going on the medal.
Microsoft released some promotional videos for Windows 7 today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0go2hTXpzY#t=1m5s
is that Halo 2 or 3? (skip to 1:05)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0go2hTXpzY#t=1m5s
is that Halo 2 or 3? (skip to 1:05)
Zeouterlimits
Member
D4Danger said:
Halo 2.
PedroLumpy
Member
The "zomg it's $10, I wipe my ass with $10" argument is not valid. Yes people can afford $10, that doesn't make it right. The only other thing I'm gonna say is that despite that no other shooter I can think of follows this method of restricting maps to playlists, you guys seem adamantly sure that it's the one just true course. Everything seems to be either screw one guy or the other, black/white, AR/BR etc. It doesn't have to be that way at all, both groups can be satisfied. They're setting us up to get angry at each other but we shouldn't be flipping out on each other. We all love Halo here. It's been the same people screwing both sides all along, focus the anger where it belongs.
I just read about the 150 people thing in The Tipping Point. Interesting stuff.
Dani said:
I just read about the 150 people thing in The Tipping Point. Interesting stuff.
Could you find me a bunch of posts where people in here are saying Bungie is doing exactly the right thing in black and white terms, RE: matchmaking and DLC maps? My memory of the conversations centered around how Bungie was in a hard situation and was trying to balance things out between the haves and have-nots, to provide a good value for each. I do recall a lot of people saying they had it exactly wrong, in black and white terms, but not anyone saying the situation is perfect. Which makes your statement sound a lot like projection.PedroLumpy said:
I can't recall anyone saying they got it exactly right, nor that the current situation is ideal. Maybe my memory is getting limp in my frail old age.
The Librarian
Banned
I think they moved to their current studio back in 2004. They've been there at least three years.Stormtrooper30 said:
Penguins: congrats on the perfection achievement.
Holy shit, I practically grew up in Bellevue but it's a totally different place now, the downtown blew up to something ridiculous. The city is nice as fuck and all the rich kids come from there. And that's a huge studio as well.GM Bullfrog said:
Maybe that's why Bungie's been stealing all our money. Something like this doesn't come cheap.
PedroLumpy
Member
GhaleonEB said:
Oh, I agree that Bungie is in a bad situation, but every time someone comes to the defense of those restricted from playlists, we're treated like cheapskates who are trying to make it so you guys can't play your maps where you want to. I'm a little surprised we need quotes to confirm, but here's some from the last 2 pages.
Those are from the last two pages only. I don't deny that their are idiots arguing on both sides, but two wrongs don't make a right. Don't hold yourself to the standard of the trolls people.
NullPointer
Member
borsdy said:
Please. This.
My brother in Puerto Rico finally managed to get his xbox online, and is experiencing the joy of the NXE, party system, co-op, and media server stuff. So, knowing that he's never experienced matchmaking before, we tossed in Halo 3 and tried to get some matches going. We could only play in two unranked playlists (I think two), couldn't go to forge, and couldnt even - get this - use theater mode to watch the one social match we had just finished playing. All because I had a few of the DLC maps, and my brother had none.
This just infuriates me: A $60 game that loses functionality over time. When I bought Halo 3 at launch I had access to the entire experience. But if you were to pick the game up today you'd only have what amounts to a "demo" of the matchmaking unless you cough up some more cash.
Is there some way around this problem short of buying the DLC maps? Or is matchmaking permanently gimped for anybody that doesn't cough up?
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
NullPointer said:
Can't go forge because of DLC? Bullshit. No Theatre? Bullshit.
You can use theatre and forge together on all maps you both have. You must have tried to forge on a DLC map that you had and he hadn't and ditto for theatre. All the vanilla maps, Heroic and Cold Storage are forgable and viewable in Theatre for all DLC and non-all DLC players.
Sounds like your brother may not have downloaded all the free DLC too, real smart there, free shit, go get.
BuzzJive said:
Try loggin on to Perfect Dark Zero or other less popular games and you'll have access to everything except other players to play with.
They moved into their current digs in September, 2005. It's been almost 4 years.Stormtrooper30 said:
Whoa. Aren't you almost out of high school? They shouldn't let you leave with those sorts of math skills. (Unless you really think you're living in 2007... in which case they shouldn't let you out because your grasp on reality is a tad weak. :lol )Dax01 said:
NullPointer
Member
Maybe I'm running into two problems then.Dani said:
My brother did say he downloaded the free DLC, but he's new to all of this (consoles in general, xbox live in particular), so he might be wrong. But when I tried to invite him to Foundry on Forge, I got a "Player is not allowed to access user created content." message, or something along those lines.
I forget the error message we received when trying Theater mode, but I *was* trying to show a film for the level we had just completed. We had just finished a game of Territories on High Ground through a social playlist. Not allowed.
Between these two problems, and not being able to join the majority of matchmaking playlists, my brother's first impression of Halo 3 was pretty maddening.
Edit: OK, Theater and Forge problems may have to do with a content rating setting in the dashboard (Wouldn't be surprised if he had it set to some restrictive default value). With all of the various error messages we were getting trying to play ranked, or some of the maps I had that he didn't, and trying to use forge and theater, I probably just mixed things up.
Mr. Enigma
Member
NullPointer said:
Sounds like an issue with his XBL account being a child account.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Captain Blood said:
Believe it or not, but there are a lot of people that don't lovingly choke down the Bungie fanboy juice. It's not just one person in the thread with multiple handles.
When Halo 3 launched it came with 11 maps, it didn't have SWAT, Snipers, Social DLC, or Action Sack.NullPointer said:
New players get 4 brand new maps and access to Slayer (Social Slayer), Objective (Social Skirmish, MLG, and Squad Battle), as well as FFA. Just because you don't have access to playlists that are for the most part never even launched with Halo 3 you're going to claim it's a "demo"? Get real man.
So that $60 game gained 4 free maps while maintaining almost all of its matchmaking functionality. If you want to argue that losing access to Team Doubles and BTB (although squad battle has better gametypes) isn't made up for with the addition of 4 free maps then have at it.
For the most part though, you stink of "It's not fair I want access to everything" rather than Halo 3 losing value.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
NullPointer said:
I'm hoping your rage dial will be lowered now. Silly mistakes can exasperate anything.
I'm torn between getting the mythic pack when (if) my console get fixed or just buying ODST. I'm leaning towards just buying ODST at this point. Should save some money that way.
NullPointer
Member
AnEternalEnigma said:
Yeah that sounds likely. Hopefully that's the problem and we can clear up some issues.
The Librarian
Banned
I wasn't thinking about it that way. I know they've been there since they started working on Halo 3, so 2005, but for some reason I was only looking to 2008 since this year isn't done yet.Louis Wu said:
Besides, I did say "at least," so I wasn't wrong.:lol
NullPointer
Member
Dani said:
Absolutely. It was the combination of not being able to play on most playlists, not easily knowing which maps we could play custom games on, and then on top of that not being able to even go to Theater mode for a level we just played? I think I just lost it at that point. ;P
Still, locking out all the ranked playlists is just bad news. Ranked games aren't just there for the hardcore and ultra-competitive to show their stuff. They also enable new players, like my brother, to get into versus matches with players of similar skill (read: none).
New info: He just checked his system settings and he *is* allowing all content ratings, and has always been. So I'm not sure whats going on here.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Holy shit Epilogue is an awesome map! Not even kidding, this map is ridonculous.
NullPointer
Member
EazyB said:
The matchmaking experience is worse now for new players than it was at launch. At launch I had access to all playlists, and could play with the entire community.
My brother has very limited choice in his matchmaking now, and since the playlists are all social, he has no option to find games in his skill range, so I'm sure he'll appreciate getting obliterated by expert players looking to warm up by fragging some newbs in social. That makes current matchmaking objectively worse for new players than at launch.
EazyB said:
I really do think that the competitive types think that the benefit of ranked games is for them and them alone. Its *more* about bringing new players into the experience and not throwing them to the hardened FPS wolves out there. That part of the game is now pay-to-play.
I'm not asking for everything to be given away for free. I know that time and effort is poured into those maps, and Bungie deserves to be compensated for their work. But the model they're using isn't just about giving paying players premium features, its about locking other players out.
EazyB said:
That helps a lot actually. Is there a FAQ on Bungie.net that relates to this? Its been so long since I've played Halo competitively I don't even remember what DLC I have installed, and it'd help my brother out a lot if he knew what he was jumping into before seeing all the error messages.
The Librarian
Banned
You mean somewhere on Bungie.net that lists what each playlist is about and the types of maps that are needed?NullPointer said:
http://www.bungie.net/online/playlists.aspx
HEROIC DLC:
-Standoff
-Foundry
-Rat's Nest
LEGENDARY DLC:
-Ghost Town
-Avalanche
-Blackout
- (free) Cold Storage
MYTHIC DLC:
-Sandbox
-Assembly
-Orbital
NullPointer
Member
Tha'ts perfect. Thanks Dax. This'll do. I was looking for FAQs, and I guess I just missed that section.
You can still play with the entire community, it's just that you have to do so in specific playlists. With any sort of DLC integration in Match Making it'll sway those with DLC to not play with those that don't have it. Even if Bungie were to impliment some sort of system that allowed everyone access to all playlists but those with DLC could choose to enter a DLC enabled version, you'd still be segmented from "the entire community."NullPointer said:
It's really unaviodable unless you can think of system that could exist within Match Making that would work better. As I've said on the previous pages, the current DLC integration is unlike anything Bungie's done before. There are numerous reasons as to why this is that one could guess at. Things seemed the same with the Heroic maps staying in DLC specific playlists until they were free. Then camel Legendary's release when Bungie started saying "there are no plans for Legendary to become free." If I had to guess that was MS's call but maybe Bungie needed to make bank for their move to Bellevue. Mythic's integration seems more rushed than anything previous which, like I said in previous posts, points to MS wanted to sell as much DLC before ODST drops. Bungie's been able to maintain the essentials for those that don't want to pay, maybe not ideal, but far from terrible.NullPointer said:
http://www.bungie.net/online/playlists.aspxNullPointer said:
Has all the current playlists. Click on them to see which DLC they require and what gametypes the playlist has. If your brother is worried about getting matched up with other new players, I'd suggest he play Lone Wolves and Squad Battle. You should know that although social playlists don't give players a ranked number, there are things behind the scenes that still try to group players of close skill together. It's less precise than the ranked playlist and he'll get matched up against good players every now and then as well as players that are much worse. Just playing a lot of Social Slayer and Social Skirmish shouldn't be too intimidating.
NullPointer
Member
EazyB said:
That's really what it comes down to. The only model I know of that could work is to keep all matchmaking content free, which has the dual benefits of keeping your community together while also keeping the game fresh. Free DLC drives people to buy the game and brings back old players that have taken a break. We all know this. The trick is how to get paid cash monies for the effort.
To that problem, I'd advise selling new campaign content, or customizations. Anything that doesn't have an adverse effect on the online community as a whole. With this kind of DLC any price works. Sell recon armor for 2000 points for all anyone cares. The hardcore will buy it if they want it - and that acts to subsidize development on free maps that keep matchmaking going for everybody without these kinds of hassles.
Its too late now for Halo 3, and I don't want to single out Halo or Bungie for this model of DLC, but as the Xbox's flagship game, and the flagship for Xbox Live itself, they get the lion share of criticism. Splitting the base with paid DLC is a damn nasty trend this gen, and leads to a lot of ill will and elitism. Hopefully Bungie and other devs out there can strike the right balance between free and paid content the next go around.
EazyB said:
I'll pass that along, and thanks for the help. I wonder though, if the skill information is available to matchmaking with social playlists, why isnt there any option to prefer games within your skill range? Maybe that's something Bungie could tweak in matchmaking to make things a little easier on newer players who don't want to have to sort through this DLC/Playlist mess.
Narpas Sword0
Member
taylor910 said:
1. why do you care if its ranked
2. why shouldn't RANKED play include as many maps as there are?
3. there are more non-dlc ranked playlists than unranked
Neither of those are saying this:PedroLumpy said:
Both of them are advocating for a solution that also caters to those with the maps as well as those without. Both have been critical of Bungie's implementation of DLC in the recent past, and for all three buckets of DLC. Neither has argued the situation is "the one just true course", as you had claimed. I think you want the argument in here to be black and white, but it hasn't been. We got nuance, baby.you said:
No, not really.kylej said:
backflip10019
Member
Come on guys this whole matchmaking argument is so last month. It's clear that Shishka hates newbies and hates hardcore players so he doesn't cater the matchmaking experience to either of their needs.
I feel so justified now. Finally, we have some members of HaloGAF that are vocal about the BS being thrown down our throat by Bungie. A couple months ago I was arguing against DLC requirement and I only got a response back from the BDF. All I do now is smile while I watch a purple dinosaur try to defend bungie by creating a undertone of a subterfuging M$ behind the screens pulling bungies strings. :lol
If you want to argue as to why I shouldn't cast any doubts towards MS for this be my guest. I'm not acting like I know exactly what's going on behind the scenes, that's where you and I differ.KevinRo said:
I do enjoy your calls to this supposed BDF though :lol
KevinRo, founding member of the Microsoft Defense Force
GhaleonEB said:
Step one - Play more Halo 3
Step two - Try something other than Big Team Battle
There, you now realize Shishka is horrific.
KevinRo said:
I hope HaloGAF will send me a fruit basket and cards when they finally come around and become disgusted by the languid pace and laughable quality of Shishka's matchmaking updates.
Dani said:Try loggin on to Perfect Dark Zero or other less popular games and you'll have access to everything except other players to play with.
Are there really not enough Halo 3 players still to support Team Slayer and Team Slayer DLC? That's really all I want.
I prefer the ranked lists because generally the opponent skill level seems more consistent. In my experience, social is all over the place.
I looked at the playlist requirements and it's not really terrible, but I was pretty out of the loop I guess and just surprised to see the "you can't play this list" message so much.
Eh. It's true I've focused on BTB for the most part recently. But I am also able to recognize that your opinion does not equal the majority opinion. Nor is mine. How many times was Heavies in BTB ripped in here as being utter garbage? Lots. How often does it get vetoed, even pre-tweak? Very seldom.kylej said:
I do look at how the playlists have evolved since launch, and nearly every change reflects some of the feedback I've seen. People wanted an MLG playlist, there is one. They wanted 6v6, now there is one. A sniper playlist, now there is one. A playlist of wacky gametypes, now there is one. Versions of maps with shield doors removed, bam. It's there. A BTB mode with heavier vehicles and weapons? There. And so on.
It's worth also noting that Halo 3 has been #1 or #2 on Live the entire run of the game, for nearly two years. I think that's partly because of the playlist management, not despite it.
There's a lot more I wish were done. I've vocalized many times some other changes I'd like to see. Check my response to the last update. But the main difference between you and me is I do so without being a complete asshole.
PedroLumpy
Member
GhaleonEB said:
I would consider the implication that we are all whiny bastard and that our position is unequivocally wrong is pretty clear in those quotes. If those are what you consider 'nuanced' than I got nothing for you. They're both extremely negative, needlessly insulting, and not conducive to an actual discussion on the matter.
Look I'm not saying it's Bungie's fault. After talking with Eazy about it, he's got me thinking it could be either or Bungie or Microsoft. But I am not mad at you guys for wanting to play your maps. I definitely feel there is a solution that could have catered to both. Seriously guys, this is the first popular FPS game I can think of that has an MMO model for pricing, and we're mocked as cheap for pointing this out? I am PERFECTLY happy to blame Microsoft for this if it's their fault, I just think this should concern you all too, whoever you blame.
GhaleonEB said:
No, the difference between you and me is my knowledge of Halo 3's playlists far eclipses yours. I don't expect Shishka to exclusively listen to my complaints or those of any other internet jamoke. My issue is the pathetic, if not downright confusing changes that are implemented.
Sorry but adding "a snipe playlist" isn't a goddamn positive when Halo 2 had one and it still took over a year after launch for Shishka to put it in. ActionSack took 2 years to make its Halo 3 debut. I'm not going to regurgitate my complaints here because the people reading this post probably share my complaints. The playlists could not possibly be more stale than they are now. Until Shishka starts playing the game I guess I should lower my expectations.
It's the little things that need changed, really. The gameplay, for the most part, is down pat and now all is needed is more competitive ranked playlists and less of the social ones.GhaleonEB said:
I sincerely disagree about the "Halo 3 is #1 on the LIVE list partly because of the playlist management"... It's Halo. With knowledge of the information of veteos and whatnot, you or I could do that. The Snipers playlist took over a year, I believe, to be finally added onto Halo 3.
The Librarian
Banned
...:lolkylej said:
He just finds certain aspects of Halo fun that you don't, and he doesn't complain as much.
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