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[GhaleonEB]

So, I could use some help here.

One of the biggest problems on Sandbox that I struggle with is creating flat surfaces from the various objects (floors, blocks). I can build them flat, but they don't stay that way; the next time I fire the game up, it's a lumpy chunky mess. One of Sandstorm's biggest issues is that the top level is a bit bumpy, something I worked on for days to no avail. I'd fix something, and the next day it's bumpy again. Part of the reason I made Entrenched a much flatter map was to avoid dealing with this issue.

Apparantly forgetting the problem, I got something in my head last night and spent a few hours laying down the foundation for a new map in the sky bubble. I was very meticulous, lining stuff up perfectly with guiding objects and running over the surfaces repeatedly to iron out any bumps. It was buttery smooth.

Today, it's a mess. Typical example:

These walls were perfectly flat last night. I've fixed them twice today, only to have them bump back up on my next session. All it takes is grabbing a wall and letting go real quick and it settles back into place, thusly:

Now the same issue is all over the map. I've spent hours on the design and initial construction, and a couple hours fixing and re-fixing today, and I go in tonight to start adding the surface elements and I find this:

It was buttery smooth last night, I tell you.

Any idea what to do? I think I recall someone mentioning this was a known problem, but I don't remember if there's a way around it. If not I'll just abandon the design for now - it's not worth the frustration.

The full layout:

 

[EazyB]

Here's what you do Ghal. The wall shifting works this way. After you place a wall exactly where you want it, it will stay that way round after round. It is not only until you save, exit, then reboot that the wall will shift. The good thing is, it only does this once. If your placing a wall and need/want it to be exactly where you placed it then do the following:

1) Place wall
2) Save
3) Quit
4) Reload
5) Check to see if it's in the right place
6) If it's shifted somewhere you don't want it to be grab it again and place it back where it's supposed to be and go back to step 2 (you may have to repeat it 5-10 times, the shifting seems completely random to me)
7) If you reload the map and it's still in the right place, congratulations, you're a lucking man. It's there for good.
8) Now go 1 for each wall you want to place

It's gut-wrenchingly boring/frustrating but if you wanna be smooth, you gotta pay the price.


And here's an up to date list of GAF maps. Thanks for updating it yourselves, just make sure you update the recent one so I don't get confused. Also, I think the "New Additions" should be up there for at least a week before they get bumped off. That list is there so new maps get some extra attention and so people are given a heads up when a map has been updated. So 1-2 week(s) is probably sufficient and I'll change that depending on the amount of new content is added. I suspect there'll be another boost after the 9th but it'll probably slow down after that.

Newish additions:
4.5 EazyB's Ber Ber Creek and Ber Ber Custom
4.5 FourDoor's Airstream 0.2
4.4 Ghaleon's Entrenched - updated
4.3 Oozer’s Remnant updated
4.3 Ghaleon's Centrifugal, and Entrenched
4.3 BladedExpert updated Mage
4.3 Dax's Age of Empires renamed to Outskirts

Sixthsubset's GAF map blog.

Map maker - Map(s)
Alisdair Bnet - Aspirite v2
Bladed Expert Bnet – Mage v2.1
Dax01 Bnet – Outskirts (formally known as Age of Empire), Geminie
EazyB Bnet- Ber Ber Creek, Ber Ber Customs, Rise v3.1
Exfixate Bnet - Gangplank Galley
Fin Bnet - Refuge v1
FourDoor Bnet - Air Stream 0.2
Ghaleon Bnet - Centrifugal, Entrenched, Sandstorm
GM Bullfrog Bnet – Kulkukan
Grimm Fandango Bnet – Turf II v2
Havok Bnet - Agartha, Phaeton
Insaniac Bnet - Sky Perch
Metroidvania Bnet - Mountain 1.03
Merguson Bnet – Firmament v1.2
Nokyard Bnet - Grifball Palace
Oozer Bnet - Remnant a1.0
Spirit Bnet– Pitfall V2, Worship
Spudbud Bnet - gave up on life
Vhfive Bnet - Sanctum v2, Flying Dutchman
Vociferous Bnet - Abaddon

Tools
Fourdoor - All default objects moved to crypt
Vociferous - All objects on the ground moved aside so that they aren't in the way. (Updated 2/28)
Vociferous - All default objects moved to the skybubble

 

[vhfive]

bumps an shit

ran into the same problem which is why all my latests maps have been in the crypt

 

[GhaleonEB]

Here's what you do Ghal. The wall shifting works this way. After you place a wall exactly where you want it, it will stay that way round after round. It is not only until you save, exit, then reboot that the wall will shift. The good thing is, it only does this once. If your placing a wall and need/want it to be exactly where you placed it then do the following:

1) Place wall
2) Save
3) Quit
4) Reload
5) Check to see if it's in the right place
6) If it's shifted somewhere you don't want it to be grab it again and place it back where it's supposed to be and go back to step 2 (you may have to repeat it 5-10 times, the shifting seems completely random to me)
7) If you reload the map and it's still in the right place, congratulations, you're a lucking man. It's there for good.
8) Now go 1 for each wall you want to place

It's gut-wrenchingly boring/frustrating but if you wanna be smooth, you gotta pay the price.

Ouch. Looks like I've got about 20 fixes to make. Thanks for giving me a method to attack it.

Edit: I give up. About eight attempts to make two blocks flat, and either one end or the other keeps shifting up. Anyone want the foundation I built? Otherwise I'm gonna nuke it and just not build on the sky bubble. It's just not workable.

 

[KevinRo]

It didn't take long for the MLG nuts to start hating on Heretic. Oh noz!!1 Teh texchures!!!




:lol :lol

i don't mind the textures as long as they dont fuck up my grenades. seriously, what happened to that invisible wall that seperated the textures from objects in halo2? for reals though, this midship remake is either going to make or break the mlg communities faith in bungie's map making abilities for this game. if they fuck this up, god knows how they could, alot of people are going to be looking forward to that new M$ developed halo.

 

[A Penguin]

And...I am reminded why I have never touched Forge.

 

[EazyB]

i don't mind the textures as long as they dont fuck up my grenades. seriously, what happened to that invisible wall that seperated the textures from objects in halo2? for reals though, this midship remake is either going to make or break the mlg communities faith in bungie's map making abilities for this game. if they fuck this up, god knows how they could, alot of people are going to be looking forward to that new M$ developed halo.

Again, I asked this the last time you brought it up but you ignored the post. Why in the fuck do you think the only thing preventing developers from pushing out a Halo-quality title is the license?

:lol
Spoiler:

Spoiler

You're wrong.

 

[backflip10019]

And...I am reminded why I have never touched Forge.

Samesies.

 

[Striker]

If you plan out and know what you want to build, Forge can be pretty fun. However, you do have to technique correctly and try to put things together that would smooth through in gameplay.

I did a ramp with a double door and it was fairly painful trying to get it connected perfectly as possible (for me_) to get it smooth enough to walk over.

 

[FourDoor]

Ghaleon, try unplugging your ethernet cable from the back of the 360 and forge the flat surfaces offline then save it before you go back online. I read this from both the MLG and ForgeHub.

When I was forging my map was the week XBL was having issues and kept disconnecting me so I guess I got lucky in the fact that I wasn't connected to XBL and the majority of my map remained straight.

Edit: Found one of the links here:
http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-...7-how-make-walls-stay-straight-after-s-q.html

 

[EazyB]

Ghaleon, try unplugging your ethernet cable from the back of the 360 and forge the flat surfaces offline then save it before you go back online. I read this from both the MLG and ForgeHub.

When I was forging my map was the week XBL was having issues and kept disconnecting me so I guess I got lucky in the fact that I wasn't connected to XBL and the majority of my map remained straight.

Edit: Found one of the links here:
http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-...7-how-make-walls-stay-straight-after-s-q.html

Huh, that's really interesting. Maybe you can accomplish the same thing by switching the lobby to "local only" and still be connected to XBL.

just going into LOCAL does NOT help at ALL.
You actually have to disconnect.

Pull out whatever cable keeps you online.
Again, just switching to local does not help, you need to be disconnected, kinda like the internet is down.

:\

:lol

Forge has always been wacky but boy did they reach a whole new level with the Mythic pack. Between random shifts, object limits, and gimped default objects it's really a joy to work with.

Spoiler

Far Cry 2 + forge. Make it happen Bungle.

 

[Striker]

Huh, that's really interesting. Maybe you can accomplish the same thing by switching the lobby to "local only" and still be connected to XBL.

just going into LOCAL does NOT help at ALL.
You actually have to disconnect.

Pull out whatever cable keeps you online.
Again, just switching to local does not help, you need to be disconnected, kinda like the internet is down.

:\

I'll have to try this, as well.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

My walls never had any problems after a save and quit when online.

 

[FourDoor]

Eazy, I played through Ber Ber Creek with a couple of friends to test out and noticed something that should probably be addressed. When entering red base through the front lower entrance if you look straight up, you can see a gap up to the main floor. Grenades, rockets and other things can go through this crack. Blue base does not have this issue.

We tested it out and you can kill people through the walls by chucking grenades and rockets through the crack.

 

[Tashi]

i don't mind the textures as long as they dont fuck up my grenades. seriously, what happened to that invisible wall that seperated the textures from objects in halo2? for reals though, this midship remake is either going to make or break the mlg communities faith in bungie's map making abilities for this game. if they fuck this up, god knows how they could, alot of people are going to be looking forward to that new M$ developed halo.

With the power of the Xbox 360 home entertainment system you can easily render each nook and cranny of the environment with stunning realism. No longer will your grenades bounce perfectly and predictably when you throw them. That's right, with the power of the Xbox 360 your grenades will get stuck in little crevices on the floor or in the walls and the result will be unpredictable, just like the real world. Sound like fun? You bet it is!!

 

[NOKYARD]

So, I could use some help here.

One of the biggest problems on Sandbox that I struggle with is creating flat surfaces from the various objects (floors, blocks).

i feel your pain - online or offline, any horizontally placed walls i place would tilt after saving - i gave up trying to make the skybubble Grifball court out of double walls and instead came up with a much better solution

this method should work for the lowest of your levels - to get a better idea of what i am about to say, place your hand under a table and push up

take any flat object and push it through the soft floor - gently pull the object back up to the point where it is firmly resting on the underside of the soft floor and wiggle it into position (it will be below the grid, yet above the kill volume) - when the item is in place save and quit - repeat for all items

blocks of any size work best and you can save the better pieces for other structures - another benefit of this technique is that when you build additional structures, like bases, they are actually floating a couple of inches above your new floor and on a completely flat surface, so rather than building on a bumpy floor, your structures will start with a level foundation

 

[Kuroyume]

wireframe

Wow! That looks very nice. You should have done the Security helmet though. It's the best looking one in the game.

 

[Shake Appeal]

It didn't take long for the MLG nuts to start hating on Heretic. Oh noz!!1 Teh texchures!!!

Never gets old, and I hope no one ever explains to them what a 'texture' is, exactly.

 

[BladedExpert]

Never gets old, and I hope no one ever explains to them what a 'texture' is, exactly.

Every time I see 'textures' get the blame I both laugh and die a little inside. :lol

 

[Nutter]

Every time I see 'textures' get the blame I both laugh and die a little inside. :lol

Hey did we not tell you to fix those textures that throw us in the air on Mage

 

[BladedExpert]

Hey did we not tell you to fix those textures that throw us in the air on Mage

:lol If only I was a perfectionist and thought it would be worth it

 

[DcLevartho]

Wow! That looks very nice. You should have done the Security helmet though. It's the best looking one in the game.

Haha thank you, and no worries, I'll end up doing every single one.

 

[The Librarian]

And here's an up to date list of GAF maps. Thanks for updating it yourselves, just make sure you update the recent one so I don't get confused. Also, I think the "New Additions" should be up there for at least a week before they get bumped off. That list is there so new maps get some extra attention and so people are given a heads up when a map has been updated. So 1-2 week(s) is probably sufficient and I'll change that depending on the amount of new content is added. I suspect there'll be another boost after the 9th but it'll probably slow down after that.

Newish additions
4.5 EazyB's Ber Ber Creek and Ber Ber Custom
4.5 FourDoor's Airstream 0.2
4.4 Ghaleon's Entrenched - updated
4.3 Oozer’s Remnant updated
4.3 Ghaleon's Centrifugal, and Entrenched
4.3 BladedExpert updated Mage
4.3 Dax's Age of Empires

Sixthsubset's GAF map blog.

Map maker - Map(s)
Alisdair Bnet - Aspirite v2
Bladed Expert Bnet – Mage v2.1
Dax01 Bnet – Age of Empire, Geminie
EazyB Bnet- Ber Ber Creek, Ber Ber Customs, Rise v3.1
Exfixate Bnet - Gangplank Galley
Fin Bnet - Refuge v1
FourDoor Bnet - Air Stream 0.2
Ghaleon Bnet - Centrifugal, Entrenched, Sandstorm
GM Bullfrog Bnet – Kulkukan
Grimm Fandango Bnet – Turf II v2
Havok Bnet - Agartha, Phaeton
Insaniac Bnet - Sky Perch
Metroidvania Bnet - Mountain 1.03
Merguson Bnet – Firmament v1.2
Nokyard Bnet - Grifball Palace
Oozer Bnet - Remnant a1.0
Spirit Bnet– Pitfall V2, Worship
Spudbud Bnet - gave up on life
Vhfive Bnet - Sanctum v2, Flying Dutchman
Vociferous Bnet - Abaddon
Dax01 - Age of Empire

Tools
Fourdoor - All default objects moved to crypt
Vociferous - All objects on the ground moved aside so that they aren't in the way. (Updated 2/28)
Vociferous - All default objects moved to the skybubble

Nope. I've renamed "Age of Empire" (no "s") to Outskirts, and "Age of Empire" is in that list twice.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Goddamn MLG should start using the term geometry, cause they really do have a fucking point. They just need to learn to speak correctly and shit. Kinda like how I have points but I'm too mean and blunt about them so people write me off as an asshole.

But heres what happened:

1) Threw a nade at a wall in Cold Storage and it literally stuck in the wall so unrealistically.

2) Threw a nade on Standoff towards the back base where the boxes are and outta nowhere a little fucking tree branch makes the nade stop dead in its track and it blows up on me and I get one shotted.

The conclusion is if you are going to attempt to make a realistic physics engine (Dumb since its a video game, make it PLAY smooth not BE smooth) you need to at least MAKE it realistic. Momentum is lost and gained at completely unrealistic speeds. Grenades you toss forward that hit the ground bounce BACK at you? Makes no sense the forward momentum would make the next bounce continue in the same direction unless acted upon by another outside force.

---

Also chain grenade explosions are dumb, H2's grenade explosion physics were 100x better at least in terms of gameplay.

I'll go further into this.

So people in H2 were getting all into Plasma nade launches, starting to use them quite strategically actually, and that wasnt the way Bungie wanted it, so they created a rule if one nade blows up ANYWHERE within the range of damage it automatically blows up the other nade right where it stands (usually your hand causing death).

Instead of fixing the problem they make an insane rule that just eliminates the problem

Another example is Doubleshots Quick Reloads Quick Weapon Switchs, BXB BXR, In order to eliminate this they just made HUGE timeframes that each action takes and in between you can't do NETHING, rendering a player useless.

The problem with these huge fixes patching over minor problems that should have been fixed correctly is that they create such slower gameplay.

Its like Halo 3 is the Dominoes Pizza of Video Games.

 

[Brainboy]

Grenades you toss forward that hit the ground bounce BACK at you? Makes no sense the forward momentum would make the next bounce continue in the same direction unless acted upon by another outside force.

Uh oh Bungle, juices has gone all physics on you!

 

[Blueblur1]

Juices, you should prepare a resume and start applying to Bungie now. Maybe Shishka will perform the interview?

 

[kylej]

Juices, you should prepare a resume and start applying to Bungie now. Maybe Shishka will perform the interview?

Well he plays Halo which is a definite negative but he also posts at NeoGAF so that's like 85% of the requirements filled already. Go for it Juices.

 

[Merguson]

Goddamn MLG should start using the term geometry, cause they really do have a fucking point. They just need to learn to speak correctly and shit. Kinda like how I have points but I'm too mean and blunt about them so people write me off as an asshole.

But heres what happened:

1) Threw a nade at a wall in Cold Storage and it literally stuck in the wall so unrealistically.

2) Threw a nade on Standoff towards the back base where the boxes are and outta nowhere a little fucking tree branch makes the nade stop dead in its track and it blows up on me and I get one shotted.

The conclusion is if you are going to attempt to make a realistic physics engine (Dumb since its a video game, make it PLAY smooth not BE smooth) you need to at least MAKE it realistic. Momentum is lost and gained at completely unrealistic speeds. Grenades you toss forward that hit the ground bounce BACK at you? Makes no sense the forward momentum would make the next bounce continue in the same direction unless acted upon by another outside force.

---

Also chain grenade explosions are dumb, H2's grenade explosion physics were 100x better at least in terms of gameplay.

I'll go further into this.

So people in H2 were getting all into Plasma nade launches, starting to use them quite strategically actually, and that wasnt the way Bungie wanted it, so they created a rule if one nade blows up ANYWHERE within the range of damage it automatically blows up the other nade right where it stands (usually your hand causing death).

Instead of fixing the problem they make an insane rule that just eliminates the problem

Another example is Doubleshots Quick Reloads Quick Weapon Switchs, BXB BXR, In order to eliminate this they just made HUGE timeframes that each action takes and in between you can't do NETHING, rendering a player useless.

The problem with these huge fixes patching over minor problems that should have been fixed correctly is that they create such slower gameplay.

Its like Halo 3 is the Dominoes Pizza of Video Games.

Wat? Domino's Pizza here in Canada is amazing.

 

[vhfive]

Wat? Domino's Pizza here in Canada is amazing.

if you think that you have not tasted real pizza

 

[backflip10019]

Well he plays Halo which is a definite negative but he also posts at NeoGAF so that's like 85% of the requirements filled already. Go for it Juices.

I don't know, Juices is somewhat lacking in the category that requires you to be able to write such inane nonsensical jargon and pass it off as being witty.

 

[Blueblur1]

I don't know, Juices is somewhat lacking in the category that requires you to be able to write such inane nonsensical jargon and pass it off as being witty.

I'm sure Bungie would be willing to pay for some creative writing classes at a local Seattle college to get him up to snuff.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Stop being ignorant little bitches.

 

[backflip10019]

Stop being ignorant little bitches.

No, Blanket, stop! That's ignorant. You're being ignorant!

 

[EazyB]

Stop being ignorant little bitches.

I swear, it seems like people are just sulking back from class after getting picked on and in order to feel better they bitch on the internet.

All you can do is shake your head and imagine how pathetic their lives must be.

 

[backflip10019]

I swear, it seems like people are just sulking back from class after getting picked on and in order to feel better they bitch on the internet.

All you can do is shake your head and imagine how pathetic their lives must be.

Actually, it's just raining out and there's snow in the forecast for tomorrow. So I'm a little down in the dumps about that.

Spoiler

Jeez, guys, we're just playing around. Stop taking everything so cereal.

 

[vhfive]

Actually, it's just raining out and there's snow in the forecast for tomorrow. So I'm a little down in the dumps about that.

Spoiler

Jeez, guys, we're just playing around. Stop taking everything so cereal.

its sad times
whenever i have a day off from work recently it seems to be raining (or in this case sleet/raining)

 

[The Librarian]

Complaining.

Can't wait until you start complaining about the color.

 

[Tashi]

No, Blanket, stop! That's ignorant. You're being ignorant!

"I got your nose, I got your nose" lol

But yo Juices, didn't the grenade chain explosions happen in Halo 2 as well. I kind of remember throwing a grenade when one is thrown at me and having them both blow up in my face. That shit definitely doesn't happen as much in Halo 3. Unless I'm mistaken, I think the grenade physics are fine, in fact, I think they're better than they were in Halo 2. I love running backwards and lacing a grenade over a ledge and onto a platform.

The thing that pisses me off are the little nooks in the geometry where grenades get caught. The times that it still happens is drastically reduced. Almost naturally I aim grenades out of spots where they've gotten stuck in the past. Construct is a nightmare for these. From lobby to either purple, the walls in the doorway closest to the sword are just beautifully designed to catch grenades. There is just a little spot where you have to land the grenades perfectly. Also, closed side of gold. That glass wall and actually both walls can have grenades caught in them. Very annoying.

 

[Stinkles]

Wait, so leet players are trying to bounce nades off of corners and nooks? I mean, I get that there are the occasionally geometry issues with this, but I've known since Halo: CE what not to try to bounce a nade off of.

 

[backflip10019]

Wait, so leet players are trying to bounce nades off of corners and nooks? I mean, I get that there are the occasionally geometry issues with this, but I've known since Halo: CE what not to try to bounce a nade off of.

Are you honestly trying to tell us that you've never thrown a grenade off the floor and had it bounce right back in your face?

 

[FourDoor]

Maybe they should take a queue from the newly formed B.U.N.G.L.E league. Just place shield doors over every nook and cranny so everything bounces off of them as if the entire map was flat. :lol

 

[The Librarian]

Wait, so leet players are trying to bounce nades off of corners and nooks? I mean, I get that there are the occasionally geometry issues with this, but I've known since Halo: CE what not to try to bounce a nade off of.

Bounce a grenade off one of your own teammates: it's the most efficient thing you can do.

 

[EazyB]

Are you honestly trying to tell us that you've never thrown a grenade off the floor and had it bounce right back in your face?

I think I've had it happen to me about twice in all 6K matches I've played. To call it an issue is crazy.

I agree with Tashi:

Almost naturally I aim grenades out of spots where they've gotten stuck in the past. Construct is a nightmare for these. From lobby to either purple, the walls in the doorway closest to the sword are just beautifully designed to catch grenades. There is just a little spot where you have to land the grenades perfectly. Also, closed side of gold. That glass wall and actually both walls can have grenades caught in them. Very annoying.

I think it would be beneficial from a gameplay perspective to have less complicated geometry along walls, the ceiling, and the floor but as it stands now it's not that big of a deal. Throwing a grenade at a shelf on blackout is unpredictable, but it's predictably unpredictable. I'm not about to throw a bouncy ball at a row of uneven books and expect the ball to bounce the same each time. If "dem textures" are effecting your game that much, then you're just slow.

 

[Shake Appeal]

What about stairs, though? Can't abide stairs.

 

[MIMIC]

Nope..

# Team BRs (23.4%) - 50 kills to win. Battle Rifle spawns with Assault Rifle secondary weapon. Map traits: Light vehicles only. 12 minute match time limit.

Jeez....why? I hopped into Rumble Pit and both games I played were BR starts. Maybe I'll play that more often now (instead of SS)

 

[LunaticPuma]

Bounce a grenade off one of your own teammates: it's the most efficient thing you can do.

Works better if you stick your own teammate in the back of their head to give the other team a triple kill.

 

[tombur]

Anyone seen the 'leaked' ODST menu screens? If you look at the main shot, and then the picture of the menu close up, the background is different, hinting the background is moving like Halo 3's menus... is this old?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF3BS_rnuvc&feature=related

Edit: Pah, a fake, waste of pixels

 

[Stinkles]

Are you honestly trying to tell us that you've never thrown a grenade off the floor and had it bounce right back in your face?

Yes, that's exactly what I said. I said it has never happened in the history of Halo.


I am saying it happens rarely and when it does, it's USUALLY my fault - throwing at a stair, or a cleft in rocks for example. The rhetoric in here lightly implies that grenades spontaneously blow up in people's faces about an inch after they're thrown.

The game where grenades never encounter tricky surfaces would be a bland nightmare of curved ramps and flat planes. Competitive gaming is a welcome adjunct to any game's audience, and should ALWAYS be carefully considered and in some regards, catered to, but it's not the primary one.

 

[backflip10019]

The game where grenades never encounter tricky surfaces would be a bland nightmare of curved ramps and flat planes. Competitive gaming is a welcome adjunct to any game's audience, and should ALWAYS be carefully considered and in some regards, catered to, but it's not the primary one.

That's all I want. Make it happen Bungle.

 

[Blueblur1]

Actually, it's just raining out and there's snow in the forecast for tomorrow. So I'm a little down in the dumps about that.

Spoiler

Jeez, guys, we're just playing around. Stop taking everything so cereal.

Seriously.