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[Brainboy]

I never ever said you shouldn't complain when there are problems. I never ever said you shouldn't offer suggestions for improvement. What I said was, if you're using the English language the way I use the English language, you're totally wasting your time here. If you don't mean that it's a horrible game... don't say it's a horrible game.

How fucking hard is that to understand?

(If you're NOT using the English language the way I'm using it, you're doing it wrong.)

I understand what you're trying to do here, and I probably agree. But you're not going to stop people from exaggerating their opinions on a forum. I guess "X sucks" just rolls off the keyboard easier than "X is pretty mediocre".

 

[backflip10019]

I hope you guys have no misconceptions about how much of the population your opinions represent.

The important part, right?

really? I think Onslaught is pretty amazing.

Agreed, I really enjoy Onslaught. Amplified isn't too bad minus the spawns and gives the MLG playlist a little variety with a smaller map with no power weapons.

 

[Domino Theory]

I hope you guys have no misconceptions about how much of the population your opinions represent.



I honestly believe they have raw hard data that is, not surprisingly, a little more accurate than some statistics you guys pull out of thin air. If a good majority of these people didn't like these gametypes, they probably wouldn't put them in.

Violently Ignited Pennies.

 

[EazyB]

But in the end I don't think it really matters, most people are content playing AR starts on large maps and running around like a retard, so the vocal minority is pretty much out of luck if things haven't changed by this point, IMO.

This is what so many people fail to see.

MM could be improved substantially for me. Yet I'm not the only person that plays this game and for every player like me who knows the value of BR starts and a balanced gametype there are a thousand more players who get frustrated when they have to aim (shooting BRs) and find much more value in having 5 things that make awesome explosions regardless of how broken the gametype is (Heavies).

What I like to think though is that there'd be ways to appeal to the minority we consist of. Yet it seems Bungie won't even attempt to try anything different (ARs with BR secondaries or a tweaked Heavies). This brings me to my next point, Bungie is so worried about confusing new/casual players with tweaked gametypes that it makes the MM bland. I think I read it in ATLAS but someone from Bungie (Shishka) said that the user maps have to support the default gametypes.

What's wrong with this; what am I getting at? They said that things like flag reset times and starting weapons have to conform to existing MM gametypes so if your map is small, too bad, flag reset times have to be the same as valhalla. This sort of thing also persists within Bungie's own maps. The one-flag reset time on Ghost Town is the same as the one flag reset time on Avalanche. I'm guessing Bungie doesn't want to tweak the gametypes assuming that their simple (dare I say retarded) community can't figure out the fact that the reset time is 5 seconds shorter or maybe adding classic CTF on smaller maps like Assembly and the Pit.

These sort of assumptions have made the gametypes on many maps not fit as well as they easily could. This has also, I assume, prevented them from doing anything with the weapons by starting people with something different like the carbine to change things up. Or tweaking the weapon and powerup layout on maps to better suit their gametype (FFA or Flag, etc.)

I'm saying these things on the assumption that the fear of confusion is the cause for these problems because that's the only reasonable explanation I can think of. If Shishka is in charge of such matters and is too swamped or doesn't have the resources; then Bungie should do something about that. Hire more people to playtest new gametypes or map variants. The task of finding good community maps for matchmaking is a huge one but it's something that should have enough resources invested in it so that the task can be completed. It's obvious it's too much for one man and while Bungie may not cost effective way of dealing with it, they probably have enough cash to take a little bit of a hit in order to spice up MM. These aren't expectations (because Bungie does a better job than almost anyone else) but simply desired changes that I feel would benifit MM for everyone.


Edit: Oh yeaz, get rid of party split too.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

You know what sucks the most about having the mythic maps tied to Halo Wars?



We get a month until it's on the marketplace (probably more) and then however long it takes to see custom Sandbox maps in matchmaking, if ever.



I really hope I don't get disappointed with that like I was with foundry.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Eazy: I think you nailed a lot of things. I've voiced my opinion about Heavies - explosions and vehicles yay millions of lasers nay - but it's probably the least-vetoed gametype I've played. I don't like VIP on most maps, but it gets vetoed. But I recognize that the Halo community is big and has different preferences than I do.

Here's my one big wish for matchmaking: where is the variety in the gametypes? Making maps on Sandbox, I was surprised when I saw how many different core gametypes and variants there are baked right in as easily selectable defaults. I've never played the majority of them.

I'd love to try Escort as a variant of VIP, and not just for Rocket Race, for instance. I think the way it will move the VIPs around the map would be great on say, Valhalla, where VIP is a game of who can break into the base - just like Assault and Flag.

Beyond tweaking settings like flag return times - which I do think should be done - I'd love to see some of the alternate variants of gametypes mixed into matchmaking for variety, even at low percentages.

A big problem is Bungie didn't design a way to communicate unique or unusual game objectives to players in the lobby. I imagine a space to describe the goal and how the rules are different than normal would go a long ways toward making these kind of gametypes possible. I recall Luke commenting that they looked into making that happen, but it just wasn't something that could be done via patch. Without a way to communicate the kind of objectives to players, more unusual gametypes could confuse the masses, and I'm guessing that's a factor in not rolling them out. But I think people would catch on eventually, and it would be worth the payoff in variety.

 

[backflip10019]

Wow, solid post Eazy.

 

[Azar]

Eazy: I think you nailed a lot of things. I've voiced my opinion about Heavies - explosions and vehicles yay millions of lasers nay - but it's probably the least-vetoed gametype I've played. I don't like VIP on most maps, but it gets vetoed. But I recognize that the Halo community is big and has different preferences than I do.

Here's my one big wish for matchmaking: where is the variety in the gametypes? Making maps on Sandbox, I was surprised when I saw how many different core gametypes and variants there are baked right in as easily selectable defaults. I've never played the majority of them.

I'd love to try Escort as a variant of VIP, and not just for Rocket Race, for instance. I think the way it will move the VIPs around the map would be great on say, Valhalla, where VIP is a game of who can break into the base - just like Assault and Flag.

Beyond tweaking settings like flag return times - which I do think should be done - I'd love to see some of the alternate variants of gametypes mixed into matchmaking for variety, even at low percentages.

So true. Maybe it's just nostalgia glasses, but I feel like I got to play a lot more fun gametypes in Halo 2. I think the big problem here is how horribly they ruined Territories--what was once an incredibly fun, versatile gametype has been really marginalized in Halo 3. I still mourn for Halo 2 territories. Beyond that, I don't remember what I played that regularly in Halo 2 that seemed more fun, but the variety is definitely lacking these days.

But it's hard to deliver on variety when so many people want to play Slayer and groan when it's anything but the default weapon set or BR starts. I know I'm well in the minority, but I like mixing it up with Duals or Fiesta or Rockets or Shotguns or Snipers.

 

[Insaniac]

while we're on the topic of complaining, why oh why does sandbox have to be so great, yet have such limitations? Why can't we just delete the default layout and not worry about the object limit? Likewise, why can't we delay respawn the default objects so we can interlock them? Then I wouldn't care about not being able to delete the default objects. But no, I pretty much just can't use them when making an interlock-intensive map

 

[GhaleonEB]

while we're on the topic of complaining, why oh why does sandbox have to be so great, yet have such limitations? Why can't we just delete the default layout and not worry about the object limit? Likewise, why can't we delay respawn the default objects so we can interlock them? Then I wouldn't care about not being able to delete the default objects. But no, I pretty much just can't use them when making an interlock-intensive map

On the budget limit: I think it's simply because we're doing stuff with Forge that wasn't in the design spec when it shipped. Forge was conceived as a tool to modify weapon and spawn placements, not a map editor. I think some of the limitations we are running into are because of how Forge has morphed over the course of the map packs, and had Bungie been aiming for a map editor all along maybe some of the reasons for the limits would have been designed differently. When Halo 3 shipped I never thought I'd be building a map from scratch like this. I try to keep that in mind when I run into limitations; heck, I'm rebuilding a map right now because the limit killed the first version.

As for the default objects: you can interlock them, but there's quirk. I find they don't actually disappear until after 30 seconds. So set the respawn time to 60 seconds, and it will disappear after 30, which is then your window to get other objects in place to interlock.

 

[Insaniac]

On the budget limit: I think it's simply because we're doing stuff with Forge that wasn't in the design spec when it shipped. Forge was conceived as a tool to modify weapon and spawn placements, not a map editor. I think some of the limitations we are running into are because of how Forge has morphed over the course of the map packs. When Halo 3 shipped I never thought I'd be building a map from scratch like this. I try to keep that in mind when I run into limitations; heck, I'm rebuilding a map right now because the limit killed the first version.

As for the default objects: you can interlock them, but there's quirk. I find the don't actually disappear until after 30 seconds. So set the respawn time to 60 seconds, and it will disappear after 30, which is then your window to get other objects in place to interlock.

Good to know ghaleon, thanks.

 

[FourDoor]

I'd love to try Escort as a variant of VIP, and not just for Rocket Race, for instance. I think the way it will move the VIPs around the map would be great on say, Valhalla, where VIP is a game of who can break into the base - just like Assault and Flag.

Someone get this man a good drink. Escort on High Ground is quite fun and something I really miss playing! Everyone knows where the escort points are. So it's always a nice intense battle for the attacking team to clear out the area so that the VIP can go through unharmed. Fail to secure the area, and your VIP is more than likely toast.

So that reminds me that I should go ahead and make sure I have enough budget left to put in Escort in the map that I am playing. Escort is the most under utilized gametype in H3 IMHO.

 

[Digital Limit]

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/235913/forums/posts.aspx?postID=31255440

Good read actually and could be a nice start to a *cough* Spawn how-to guide by Shishka *cough*

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Wtfmate!

 

[FourDoor]

As for the default objects: you can interlock them, but there's quirk. I find they don't actually disappear until after 30 seconds. So set the respawn time to 60 seconds, and it will disappear after 30, which is then your window to get other objects in place to interlock.

I'll have to try that. Right now I have to use a spawned object and use that as my object I put a respawn timer on and use the default object as the item I move into the respawning object. So this pretty much limits the default objects as the outer end caps if you will for merged objects.

I never though too that I would ever be making a map from scratch like this in Halo. Its awesome and fun (been a life saver this week with not being able to log on to XBL consistently lately with their issues).

 

[FourDoor]

Wtfmate!

Shishka has banned you from this group apparently :lol

Spoiler

Join the group here first: http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/atlas/Group/GroupHome.aspx

 

[AnnSwag]

Did the sales report for Halo Wars come in as yet?

 

[Slightly Live]

Did the sales report for Halo Wars come in as yet?

Check the Halo Wars thread. You mixed up "3" and "Wars".

Around 1 million globally I bullshit.

 

[Trasher]

I do agree the playlist's suck in their current state. However Getting mad at someone because the community doesnt do their job in submitting the damn maps is wrong.

The only reason I even heard about Atlas is because I hang out on this forum. If it really is a problem that people aren't submitting maps, then maybe Bungie should consider trying to inform people a little better. How about changing the "tips" section while you wait for matchmaking to find you a game. I'm pretty sure people know how the Spartan Laser works now...

Referring to the post about what you need to do in order to have your map considered for submission: If it is really that hard to submit maps, then that is quite sad. But I understand because this is the first time that Bungie has tried doing something like this, and we should all applaud them for it (I think many of us have). They have at least made a big step towards getting the community involved with making maps for their own game. That is quite impressive. Hopefully next time they are able to make it more accessible for their community to submit their maps and ideas. It would help if Bungie released some sort of checklist or rubric to follow, and made it well known to the player-base.

Wu: First of all, I can understand your resentment for some of the posts that people have made towards the game/Bungie. There is obviously better ways of making your point other than saying things like "Fire Shishka!". But I don't think it is out of hand to say things like "matchmaking is terrible". I agree with Ram in that matchmaking is quite bad, but like someone said, the level 45's and up are only 10% of the people playing Halo. It sucks though that our experience is hurt because our skill level is different than the majority of the community. I think Bungie got it right this time with Halo 3 (in regards of making a game that would sell a shit ton) by making the multiplayer experience better for the average skilled player, and this is probably why it has been number one on Xbox Live for so long. It just sucks that the experience has gotten worse for those of us who enjoy the higher end competitiveness of Halo multiplayer.

 

[AnnSwag]

Check the Halo Wars thread. You mixed up "3" and "Wars".

Around 1 million globally I bullshit.

Thanks very much!

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

Since we are all complaining...

The one thing for me is since I am a relative noob the skill sets need some work. Im only a skil 12 but when I move up, like from 10 to 11 all of a sudden I am getting put against generals, then once I get owned for a bit it goes back down.

In addition, after playing cod5 the matchmaking process from making the match to start of the match takes forever.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

what made halo 2 territories different from halo 3's? i dont even remember

and what's classic flag, is that touch return?

 

[Insaniac]

what made halo 2 territories different from halo 3's? i dont even remember

and what's classic flag, is that touch return?

IIRC halo 2 territories was like CoD4 in which you captured a territory and you got points for every second you held it. You could hold multiple territories to get more points and enemies could capture territories back

 

[The Librarian]

IIRC halo 2 territories was like CoD4 in which you captured a territory and you got points for every second you held it. You could hold multiple territories to get more points and enemies could capture territories back

I remember the first time I played Territories in Halo 3. I was confused as hell.

 

[Insaniac]

I remember the first time I played Territories in Halo 3. I was confused as hell.

as was I. I remember sitting in a locked territory trying to capture it.

 

[Trasher]

what made halo 2 territories different from halo 3's? i dont even remember

It was called Three Plots, and there were three different stationary flags on the map that depicted the three different territories. You can kinda imagine them as like three different hills that you would find in KOTH gametypes. You would have to raise your team's color of flag on the different plots, and it would take a few seconds to capture it or overturn the other team's flag if they controlled it previously. Obviously, the more territories you controlled, the quicker you would accumulate points/time or whatever it was. Also, once you controlled one of the plots, you could leave it and go try to fight for another plot on a completely different side of the map. The plot would remain yours until the other team took it back. This gametype was incredibly fun on Lockout.

 

[Azar]

IIRC halo 2 territories was like CoD4 in which you captured a territory and you got points for every second you held it. You could hold multiple territories to get more points and enemies could capture territories back

Yup. Glorious 3 Plots meant there were three territories to fight over, and whoever got the most time won; Land Grab upped it to 5 territories; and Gold Rush was an awesome variant with shotguns and pistols.

The gameplay was so much more fun because you were constantly moving among the territories, trying to control the majority and keep them defended. The "sit on it till you lock it down" method in Halo 3 simply can't deliver the same level of excitement. I like the fact they made an effort to turn it into a viable offense/defense gametype, but the old system should still be an option.

 

[Kuroyume]

What do you guys think about Assualt in Halo 2 vs 3? Better or worse?

 

[KevinRo]

i didnt say it was difficult, and i didnt say i only have 1 account.

and i didnt come in to say that. but while im at it ill just say im better than you kevinro!! yay!

and wu, it doesnt really matter how much people play halo. its just other companies are alot more incompetent than bungie, save infinity ward, and ive met alot of people who left for cod4 because matchmaking in halo just isnt fun. the fact that people love the game is no reason just to be complacent about its problems... theres alot of room for improvement.

:lol hi mike i see your mlg account.

thats funny because on your mlg account your profile lists you as having 2 accounts. one that is a 50 and one that isn't. apparently you can't get a 50 in mlg not because you don't want to but because you can't. don't come in here acting like you're tough because you can play 4 games of gamebattles and quit.

haha please don't come in here with the cod4 is better than halo matchmaking because we all know where this leads too already ->

*edit*

nice accounts

mike stefl
ics stefl

 

[xxjuicesxx]

What do you guys think about Assualt in Halo 2 vs 3? Better or worse?

Halo 2 hardcore neutral assault on Midship > Grifball.

 

[Trasher]

http://kotaku.com/5177033/wii-fit-officially-topples-halo-3-in-sales

Crazy.

 

[backflip10019]

Sorry for quitting on you guys, Tashi and Kevin. Had to get dinner. I'll be on after though.

 

[Azar]

What do you guys think about Assualt in Halo 2 vs 3? Better or worse?

I think they're both fun, but Halo 3 made it a smarter gametype. The common way of playing Halo 2 Assault was to get the bomb in place and then have person after person hop on it, adding just enough time and keeping it close to the arm zone. It made for some exhilarating battles, but the arming system in Halo 3 calls for much more realistic offense and defense. The offensive team can't just drop it in the base and then inch towards victory--they really have to break through the defenses.

Sudden Death in Halo 3 Assault is total shit, though. If you plant the bomb in Sudden Death, the round should not end until the bomb goes off or the defending team disarms it. Having a match end 2 seconds before a bomb explodes really sucks.

 

[Merguson]

What do you guys think about Assault in Halo 2 vs 3? Better or worse?

Having playing Halo 3, I don't think I could ever have fun with Assault in Halo 2; a completely broken game compared to Halo 3.

EDIT: Although some Halo 2 maps are above some in Halo 3.

 

[Kibbles]

Weekly Update - http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=BWU_032009

P.S. 04/09/09

Mythic Map Release Date methinks.

 

[Arnie]

BWU is up : http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=BWU_032009

No really juicy news, until the last sentence.

04/09/09?

DAMN YOU KIBBLES!

 

[urk]

Weekly Update - http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=BWU_032009

tl;dr

 

[Thermite]

tl;dr

Dunb4, amirite?

 

[Kibbles]

tl;dr

Hey, I saw it pop up on my rss feed so I relayed it over here first before I read... sharing the wealth.

BWU is up : http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=BWU_032009

No really juicy news, until the last sentence.

04/09/09?

DAMN YOU KIBBLES!

Oh and about the date,

From last week's BWU:

The truth is - and we've relayed this same info over and over again - that we can't clue you into the date just yet. When will we? Soon™. Maybe next week if all goes to plan. Still, something tells us that plenty of you will skip right past this section of the update to ask about the date anyway. Prove us wrong. Please.

It's the release of the Mythic Map Pack. Good to hear, I'll relay this info to my friends who don't have it yet. The Mythic Map Pack Film thing sounds cool, I wish I would've saved those games we did for 1UP's Gamenight :lol

It doesn't sound like we'll get a new ODST trailer for GDC. I know it's the Game Developer's Conference, so I shouldn't be too saddened by this news, but that hasn't stopped other trailers from releasing for GDC. I'm just dying to get some in-game stuff, this game is a mere 2 seasons away.

 

[SweetTea023]

I remember the first time I played Territories in Halo 3. I was confused as hell.

lol ditto

Our Halo Night at GearHeads was a blast~My first time playing Splockets... here's the recap.

 

[Arnie]

It's the release of the Mythic Map Pack.

Ahh, I see, in the UK we swap the month and the day around so it sounded like the 4th of September. This led me to believe the date was more important than it was. Anyway I still don't have the Mythic maps, WILL BUY.

 

[swander]

buy it on 04/09 for 1600 MS points

it will drop to 800 MS points soon. we can't tell you when, but soon.

(haha)

 

[Trasher]

Maybe, in addition, they want our saved films of customs to upload onto Bungie where the videos will be hosted?!

In all seriousness though, what was the last news we got about Bungie hosting films? Did they end up scrapping that idea?

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Maybe, in addition, they want our saved films of customs to upload onto Bungie where the videos will be hosted?!

In all seriousness though, what was the last news we got about Bungie hosting films? Did they end up scrapping that idea?

No some dude hinted at 720p. Or something else cryptically. A week or two ago.

 

[Trasher]

No some dude hinted at 720p. Or something else cryptically. A week or two ago.

Oh yeah, I remember that. Hopefully we get that soon.

 

[KevinRo]

Does anyone still have some of the games we played on sanctum?

There was one specific moment when I ran out of the bottom level of the ring to kill an elite. In the end I saw two elites so i knew i was dead so I stopped. I then heard the chatter 'i think he was confused'. haha i want to see that again

 

[SweetTea023]

Maybe, in addition, they want our saved films of customs to upload onto Bungie where the videos will be hosted?!

In all seriousness though, what was the last news we got about Bungie hosting films? Did they end up scrapping that idea?

What I hear is that it's still being "worked on". Man, I hope that feature launches soon...

 

[Trasher]

Does anyone still have some of the games we played on sanctum?

There was one specific moment when I ran out of the bottom level of the ring to kill an elite. In the end I saw two elites so i knew i was dead so I stopped. I then heard the chatter 'i think he was confused'. haha i want to see that again

I believe vhfive ended up not saving any of those games because he wanted to tweak his map a little bit more. How is that going by the way?

 

[BladedExpert]

Does anyone still have some of the games we played on sanctum?

There was one specific moment when I ran out of the bottom level of the ring to kill an elite. In the end I saw two elites so i knew i was dead so I stopped. I then heard the chatter 'i think he was confused'. haha i want to see that again

I have one of the games captured Here from 2 POV's. Im not sure if that moment is in there, but you can always check...

 

[backflip10019]

Wow, something has to be done about party splitting. This is ridiculous.

 

[The Librarian]

Joined the fan page on Facebook.