backflip10019
Member
So, umm, what am I supposed to do with an AR on Valhalla? Stand it upright and crouch so it goes straight up my ass? Shoot all the bullets into the sky while spinning around really quickly? Why do AR starts on Valhalla exist?
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The Official Halo 3 Thread
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
- Status
spermatic cord
Member
Shiskabackflip10019 said:
backflip10019
Member
GhaleonEB said:
Team Slayer, Social Slayer.
Vallhalla should be Team Brs or (lawl) Rifles.backflip10019 said:Team Slayer, Social Slayer.
For normal Slayer there -- its gun down the other team with Warthogs, grabs laser, seek & destroy, and rinse/repeat. Without laser and Warthog, it would be a more enjoyable contest.
I'm generally a proponent of the "it depends" mantra when it comes to AR vs BR starts. One of things it depends on is map size. AR starts on Valhalla (or any map suitable for BTB) makes no sense whatsoever. I generally romp in the BTB playlist, which is managed very well. AR starts there would give me fits.backflip10019 said:Team Slayer, Social Slayer.
Matchmaking needs a lot of work. Period. Here are some examples of things that are wrong with the hoppers right now: AR starts on Valhalla, AR starts on Avalanche (Social Team DLC), redundant playlists (Social Team DLC), default Foundry (aside from the lackluster design it has three power weapons spawning at the back and has terrible spawns), use of The Pit instead of Pit Stop (especially terrible in 3 Ball matches where two different teams climb into the attics with an oddball) and much much more.Striker said:
I'm not going to rag on Shiska because I'm sure there's more to his job than coordinating gametype and map combinations. But H3's matchmaking playlists could be a lot better with a little more work.
Oh yeah, I forgot Heavies. It needs to be reworked to be taken seriously - even as a 'for fun' gametype.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
These are the maps should be the defacto for BR starts (all the time, regardless of the player count, across all playlists and all gametypes):
Valhalla
Last Resort
Standoff
Sandtrap
Avalanche
Rat's Nest
High Ground
Narrows
Cold Storage
Isolation
Guardian
Debatable/Questionable/Confuzzled:
Pit Stop (I don't care for 'The Pit'; Pit Stop should be default in MM)
Epilogue (see above for 'Epitaph')
Construct
Blackout
Ghost Town
Foundry
Boundless (see above for 'Snowbound')
Of course, I'd rather see ALL maps across ALL gametypes and ALL playlists have BR starts (meaning BR primary w/AR secondary or AR primary w/BR secondary).
Gametypes that need to be removed (why oh why is it taking so long to remove these gametypes from MM when clearly no one is enjoying them and they're always being vetoed?):
VIP
1 sided VIP
Land Grab
Valhalla
Last Resort
Standoff
Sandtrap
Avalanche
Rat's Nest
High Ground
Narrows
Cold Storage
Isolation
Guardian
Debatable/Questionable/Confuzzled:
Pit Stop (I don't care for 'The Pit'; Pit Stop should be default in MM)
Epilogue (see above for 'Epitaph')
Construct
Blackout
Ghost Town
Foundry
Boundless (see above for 'Snowbound')
Of course, I'd rather see ALL maps across ALL gametypes and ALL playlists have BR starts (meaning BR primary w/AR secondary or AR primary w/BR secondary).
Gametypes that need to be removed (why oh why is it taking so long to remove these gametypes from MM when clearly no one is enjoying them and they're always being vetoed?):
VIP
1 sided VIP
Land Grab
Couldn't have said it better myself.Blueblur1 said:
If Shiska has too much on his plate to service MM then put some more people on it. Some of the gametype/map combinations seems flat out broken and it's really hard for me to believe they were tested at all. I know Bungie doesn't want to spend all their time getting employees from around the office to stop their work and test out a new gametype or map variant but their setup now seems insufficient. Maybe they should hire some people on the cheap just to test MM gametypes/maps.
spermatic cord
Member
this post will be ignored and next week we will have super grifball league for dbl exp.Domino Theory said:
There shouldn't be "This map always uses this weapon" factor.
Use more game variants in Team Slayer and edit Team Objectives, as well as others (Double Teams, etc.) for specific types wanted. Team Slayer and Team BRs is stale and there needs to be an adjustment in the gametype. It will add more enjoyment and variety throughout the playlist. I know some people dislike the term variety around here, but the point needs to be addressed. By this, I'm speaking of, for example, Valhalla: for Team Slayer, have it Team BRs and others involving a Battle Rifle start. In Objectives at Valhalla, Battle Rifle with an Assault Rifle secondary. In smaller maps, such as High Ground, that is not necessary. For smaller maps, I feel the the BR/AR method is not (always) needed.
Think of Halo 2's setup and how everything was diverse and fresh.
Use more game variants in Team Slayer and edit Team Objectives, as well as others (Double Teams, etc.) for specific types wanted. Team Slayer and Team BRs is stale and there needs to be an adjustment in the gametype. It will add more enjoyment and variety throughout the playlist. I know some people dislike the term variety around here, but the point needs to be addressed. By this, I'm speaking of, for example, Valhalla: for Team Slayer, have it Team BRs and others involving a Battle Rifle start. In Objectives at Valhalla, Battle Rifle with an Assault Rifle secondary. In smaller maps, such as High Ground, that is not necessary. For smaller maps, I feel the the BR/AR method is not (always) needed.
Think of Halo 2's setup and how everything was diverse and fresh.
Dead Man Typing
Member
GhaleonEB said:
Ignore the "join Xbox Live" advice. That wont do anything. When you buy content it is tied to your Xbox 360 and the purchasing account.
However, if the machine gets repaired by Microsoft, even though it's the same seriel number, then it(the content) is no longer tied to the 360 just the purchasing account.
To fix this you can use the Microsoft digital license transfer tool: www.xbox.com/drm
There's also a work around where you can sign in with your account on controller 1 and then the other members of your family can sign in with a second controller and they will have access to the full version of XBLA games too.
This is also the case for any purchased DLC, for example if you've bought the Legendary map pack try signing in with just an account that didn't buy it and be shocked when you realise that you can't even run around the maps on a custom game, because the game thinks you haven't bought it.
Once you've used the license transfer tool every thing will be back to the way it was before the repair. Joining Xbox live on their accounts will do nothing because their accounts don't have the purcahases attached.
I was just passing through, Halo 3 rocks.
CrazedArabMan
Member
Fire Shiska avatars? Wow, some of you need to grow up and realize Bungie could of abandoned this game and not had any more playlist updates and went onto a new game. AKA: like Infinity Ward
Enjoy the game, playlists will get changed around, so settle down, take a chill pill, and just play the game instead of complaining.
Enjoy the game, playlists will get changed around, so settle down, take a chill pill, and just play the game instead of complaining.
The playlists do need a lot of work, and it's something that really should be discussed. More than tweaks are needed, major changes are needed, more gametypes need to be added, etc. However:
This far into Halo 2's lifespan, there were I believe 19 maps free and required for matchmaking. At this point in Halo 3's lifespan, there are 14. That is a pretty big difference, especially considering that Halo 2's maps were much more varied than Halo 3's are.
Your list looks pretty good to me, but I think that Cold Storage is definitely very good with AR starts, so I'd move that to the confuzzled list, and I think that Construct has too few BRs on it, and should have BR starts because of the long hallways and open areas, so I'd move that to the defacto list.
I agree that VIP should be completely removed from MM, and I think that new gametypes like Team Rifles should be experimented with.
I don't think the playlists are that great, and I occasionally find the "OMG these playlists are awful" rants to be entertaining, but making avatars asking for someone to be fired because you don't like the way he sets the playlists is just so low and immature. Especially when Halo 3's playlists are part of the reason for its' long-running success.
So I second this, the avatars are disgraceful and need to go. Those sporting them should be ashamed of themselves.
It should be noted that although Halo 2's gametypes were in better shape at this point in the game's life than Halo 3's are at the same point, the real major reason that Halo 2 felt more diverse and fresh is something that Bungie can't help:Striker said:
This far into Halo 2's lifespan, there were I believe 19 maps free and required for matchmaking. At this point in Halo 3's lifespan, there are 14. That is a pretty big difference, especially considering that Halo 2's maps were much more varied than Halo 3's are.
Now, I'd prefer BR starts with AR back-up across all of MM, but considering that that's not going to happen, I'll say this thinking that AR starts are default and BRs will only need to be starting weapons on certain maps.Domino Theory said:
Your list looks pretty good to me, but I think that Cold Storage is definitely very good with AR starts, so I'd move that to the confuzzled list, and I think that Construct has too few BRs on it, and should have BR starts because of the long hallways and open areas, so I'd move that to the defacto list.
I agree that VIP should be completely removed from MM, and I think that new gametypes like Team Rifles should be experimented with.
You know, I once thought that Bungie people hung out on GAF because it was a refreshing change from the immature back-seat developers with no sense of restraint or perspective they had bitching at them non-stop on Bungie.net. Now... I guess they either do it because it's a habit, or they appreciate the tamer version of the bnet forums.Dirtbag said:
I don't think the playlists are that great, and I occasionally find the "OMG these playlists are awful" rants to be entertaining, but making avatars asking for someone to be fired because you don't like the way he sets the playlists is just so low and immature. Especially when Halo 3's playlists are part of the reason for its' long-running success.
So I second this, the avatars are disgraceful and need to go. Those sporting them should be ashamed of themselves.
there have been many more playlist shakeups and changes in halo3 vs. halo2 at this point in its lifetime.
the bigger differences are like TDG pointed out, the breadth of maps available, and some seriously game-changing exploits and/or updates to halo 2 that seemed to be discovered or added by bungie every couple of months. Halo 3 hasn't needed the core mechanics tweaked as much, and as such the gameplay hasn't seen the evolution that you saw with halo 2.
And lets be totally honest with ourselves, the game is still very similar on many levels to its predecessors so you can attribute some portion of that staleness to the fact that you've been likely playing this game going on 7-8 years now.
the bigger differences are like TDG pointed out, the breadth of maps available, and some seriously game-changing exploits and/or updates to halo 2 that seemed to be discovered or added by bungie every couple of months. Halo 3 hasn't needed the core mechanics tweaked as much, and as such the gameplay hasn't seen the evolution that you saw with halo 2.
And lets be totally honest with ourselves, the game is still very similar on many levels to its predecessors so you can attribute some portion of that staleness to the fact that you've been likely playing this game going on 7-8 years now.
I just spent 2.5 hours playing Resistance 2 multiplayer. It's like BTB on Headlong, over and over again. But with tons of people to shoot, it's like a smorgasbord of headshots. They got the aim-asist working surprsingly well. Plus, you can choose your starting weapon before each match and they got a gun that behaves damn close to the BR, from Halo 2. The sniper takes two shots, or one headshot. Some maps have mancannons, got a pretty cool party system. It's like getting new maps for Halo 3, without vehicles.
Pretty good stuff, definately worth the money if you can find it for cheap. Halo fans should give it a rent.
The single-player game is pretty lame though...
This has got me thinking twice about Killzone 2, I can't see it being better than Resistance 2 multiplayer.
Pretty good stuff, definately worth the money if you can find it for cheap. Halo fans should give it a rent.
The single-player game is pretty lame though...
This has got me thinking twice about Killzone 2, I can't see it being better than Resistance 2 multiplayer.
eh, I think you give Resistance2 way too much credit personally, and think Killzone's bigger console competition is coming from Call of Duty. Give it another day or two of the multiplayer and you'll likely be fine with never playing it again.. the shooting mechanics were all great, but the combat has no flow what-so-ever.
They nailed the feeling of giant battles, but at the cost of never feeling like you accomplish anything. The game modes with the multiple objects play out so bizarre and awkward with the constant dashing from node to node with no real explanation as to what you're doing or anticipation as to where you go next, you just feel like playing 'simon says' with new orders every 2 minutes. Vehicles would have really helped give the match some direction and open up the full map for quick transport that maybe they could have built a proper CTF mode.
Also, team deathmatch on the bigger maps with such large teams takes away any tension because the kills counts are sooo high that deaths feel meaningless. Not having power-weapon spawns to fight over also detracts something from alot of these games where you spawn with whatever weapon you like.
Not a fan.
They nailed the feeling of giant battles, but at the cost of never feeling like you accomplish anything. The game modes with the multiple objects play out so bizarre and awkward with the constant dashing from node to node with no real explanation as to what you're doing or anticipation as to where you go next, you just feel like playing 'simon says' with new orders every 2 minutes. Vehicles would have really helped give the match some direction and open up the full map for quick transport that maybe they could have built a proper CTF mode.
Also, team deathmatch on the bigger maps with such large teams takes away any tension because the kills counts are sooo high that deaths feel meaningless. Not having power-weapon spawns to fight over also detracts something from alot of these games where you spawn with whatever weapon you like.
Not a fan.
Sure maps could be an issue, then again, a map like Foundry can be used with more potential by adding community made or even Bungie-made creations to the lineup. Question is, what is the sheer definition of enjoyment in this? People using geo-merg, floating, objects into another, etc. work a long way.TDG said:
What I specified was gametypes than maps themselves. The maps cannot be Halo 2. We know that now by the remake-attempt of Lockout. However, making the best use and creativity to the already maps/types is the best option to go.
That and Team Slayer Pro (normal Slayer, except BR starts with no radar; figure most here would pop a boner on that) added to Team Slayer would go along nicely, I think.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I agree with what has been said about some minor tweaking needed in MM.
Heavies, should not be ranked, I doubt they'll remove it based on our dislike for it, there could be a ton of people that love it, but at least take it out of any ranked playlist as it seems like 100% anti-fun when a rank depends on it. Too many lasers distract from the proposed vehicle fun. Just my two cents and the consensus I'm getting here from the majority of fellow gaffers.
I think Shishka has done a kick-ass job, just because there are still more things to change in MM, doesn't mean we can ignore the work he and the rest of Bungie have put into Halo 3 post release. A big fuck you to anyone carrying a fire Shishka avatar. I hope they read what everyone here is saying and change that retarded avatar and show some fucking respect.
On the faintest possibility of a reply, is it possible Shishka that you could say something on the default Foundry variant in MM? I think a lot of people expected Foundy to evolve alongside people's creativity in forge and yet the default variant has been there since it's release. Is there any chance to replace the default Foundry map with something different? If not, is there any chance for a quick explanation?
When it launched, I expected something new in Foundry every few months, I dunno, something. I feel disappointed that vanilla Foundry is still there, especially with so many good user made maps out there that could bring something fresh to the table. People I have been speaking to and playing with are coming to the same consensus. It seems like a wasted opportunity.
Heavies, should not be ranked, I doubt they'll remove it based on our dislike for it, there could be a ton of people that love it, but at least take it out of any ranked playlist as it seems like 100% anti-fun when a rank depends on it. Too many lasers distract from the proposed vehicle fun. Just my two cents and the consensus I'm getting here from the majority of fellow gaffers.
I think Shishka has done a kick-ass job, just because there are still more things to change in MM, doesn't mean we can ignore the work he and the rest of Bungie have put into Halo 3 post release. A big fuck you to anyone carrying a fire Shishka avatar. I hope they read what everyone here is saying and change that retarded avatar and show some fucking respect.
On the faintest possibility of a reply, is it possible Shishka that you could say something on the default Foundry variant in MM? I think a lot of people expected Foundy to evolve alongside people's creativity in forge and yet the default variant has been there since it's release. Is there any chance to replace the default Foundry map with something different? If not, is there any chance for a quick explanation?
When it launched, I expected something new in Foundry every few months, I dunno, something. I feel disappointed that vanilla Foundry is still there, especially with so many good user made maps out there that could bring something fresh to the table. People I have been speaking to and playing with are coming to the same consensus. It seems like a wasted opportunity.
Team Fortress 2 is totally awesome, and actually on-topic: it's a game which is (on the 360) hindered by its terrible matchmaking, shortage of maps, and complete lack of support from the developer. People whine about Halo 3 and Shishka, but Bungie are the only FPS developer even making an effort to support their game more than a year out.
What might be difficult to understand for people who post in this thread is that not everyone likes the BR. In fact, probably the majority of people in matchmaking have melee as their tool of destruction, probably followed by AR. Whether that's the "right" way to play the game or not, there is a big portion of the userbase whose tastes have to be catered for.
Ideally I would like to see Striker's suggestions implemented. There are a few other things that I don't understand (bad Foundry maps, no good Foundry maps, radar in Snipers). But in practice, what we've got is a pretty good compromise. If you want guaranteed BR starts, why not play Squad Battle, Social BTB, Team SWAT, or MLG?
What might be difficult to understand for people who post in this thread is that not everyone likes the BR. In fact, probably the majority of people in matchmaking have melee as their tool of destruction, probably followed by AR. Whether that's the "right" way to play the game or not, there is a big portion of the userbase whose tastes have to be catered for.
Ideally I would like to see Striker's suggestions implemented. There are a few other things that I don't understand (bad Foundry maps, no good Foundry maps, radar in Snipers). But in practice, what we've got is a pretty good compromise. If you want guaranteed BR starts, why not play Squad Battle, Social BTB, Team SWAT, or MLG?
BladedExpert
Member
alisdair said:
You've pretty much put into words exactly how I feel about the situation. If you don't like AR starts, don't go into playlists where theres a chance you'll get AR starts. I love the BR above all weapons so I spend the majority of my time in the MLG playlist. But all you have to do is play Team Slayer at the lower levels to see how little use the BR gets. In Team BR games people will switch to AR by default. thats just the weapon they're comfortable with. This probably accounts for the majority of Halo 3 players. Each to their own I guess
Zeouterlimits
Member
I was going to come on & moan about my team members in a Team Snipers match, who at the start of the round (I could hear them sniggering like pigs before the round started and guessed what was coming) immediately shot, grenaded and killed me.
I booted the killer and all 3 of them got kicked.
I've sworn to never quit a game and stuck to my guns, so it was 1 vs 4. I actually ended up enjoying myself, and was in the lead for a while.
Anyway, seems things went stupid for a while here last night, those avatars are ridiculous.
I booted the killer and all 3 of them got kicked.
I've sworn to never quit a game and stuck to my guns, so it was 1 vs 4. I actually ended up enjoying myself, and was in the lead for a while.
Anyway, seems things went stupid for a while here last night, those avatars are ridiculous.
The Librarian
Banned
Domino Theory said:
Bolded I disagree with. Guardian and Cold Storage? Really? Those mid-sized maps are excellent for AR starts and quite enjoyable.
Rat's Nest, Avalanche, Valhalla, High Ground, and Narrows -- you're never too far away from a BR/Carbine spawn, and for most of them you can usually take a path that's safe and more suitable environment to use the AR in. In all honesty, though, I personally don't care what weapons I start out with on those maps (as long as it isn't 100% with the same weapon). I can see why you would want them, but starting with an AR doesn't detract from the fun. I like variety, so I enjoy having BR starts on Valhalla in one match and AR starts on Valhalla in another.
I hate Isolation and Last Resort to care too much either way, and Sandtrap is just simply too big to walk around with an AR.
Yep.alisdair said:
Is it really that hard to walk over to a BR spawn, hold RB, and switch out?backflip10019 said:
Edit: About Heavies, as I have said before, all that needs to be done is switch out the lasers for rockets and have all the vehicles have really low respawn times.
Edit 2: I noticed that I haven't played Cold Storage in matchmaking in quite awhile. If it is possible, I would like for it to appear more often. It's an awesome mid-sized map that demands to be played more.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
alisdair said:
Actually, I think the majority of player here do appreciate Halo 3's post release support. It's been great and Bungie have really shown other developers how it should be done and the results and user activity for Halo 3 speak for itself.
I think it's fair to consider someone like Ghal to be your typical Halo 3 player. Now, when someone likes him agrees that BR starts on certain maps makes sense, it should carry a lot more weight. Ghal isn't is your four shot BR lover but he, like your average player, can appreciate the need for default BR starts on certain maps.
I think one big issue that most people need to consider is that changes and alternations made to playlists need to keep players together and not split up the playing population. Sure, we could have a playlist for every possible variant and want, but I'm happier with healthier playlist populations than not.
I know people have been requesting better DLC playlists, we have a good DLC playlist now, but still we hear people not liking it. Incorperating DLC, when DLC is paid premium, will fracture the userbase. I thought it was brave making Rumble Pit fully DLC required, but this would be impossible to implement across all playlists.
I bet that Bungie would love to have DLC required across every playlist, as it would provide more depth and variety, but the backlash from players without it would be huge and the current setup works perfectly fine whilst balancing the need and want for DLC.
Whatever happened to Covies? The way Covies altered the play of bigger maps was interesting and I was hoping to see more themed changes evolve over time. What we got in actually reality was Heavies, where it seems every idea was just thrown together blindly. Covies changed the flow of play, the speed, the tactics, etc. Some hated it, some loved it. Heavies is just blind mayhem. No tactics. Just a rush of vehicles followed by a rush of lasers, followed by a rush of vehicles, followed by a rush of lasers, followed by.... you get the idea.
I remember the laser rush in Covies in Valhalla. It was typical Valhalla with the laser rush at the start, except with ghosts being there it increased the need to have that laser and it's importance.
I have had some exciting matches, for example, our wraith was destroyed, the enemy was wielding the laser and pounding our base with their wraith. It was exciting to see our guys firstly take out their wraith, regroup, take back that the laser and turn the tide. It felt epic.
Heavies has always felt like a clusterfuck. Every vehicle on the map. Six lasers. Six fucking lasers with 30 seconds respawn times. And rockets. No tactics, just mayhem.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Dax01 said:
In Social Slayer on Vahalla (5 per team) there are only 4 BRs in the base (as I noted what happened to me (because my team were greedy bitches/didn't realise).
100% agree. My complaints only stem from what can be even better. Always aiming forward, but still enjoying and appreciating what's there now.Dani said:
If I wasn't happy I wouldn't be playing. I wouldn't have spent hundreds of euros on Halo (franchise) if I didn't think it was worth it.
The Librarian
Banned
Zeouterlimits said:
Including the one in the cave, and those at the end of each man cannon, that's seven in total. And even if you still find yourself with an AR, take the cave side over to the pelican.alisdair said:
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
alisdair said:
Each BR in standoff has a 20 second respawn time, same as every other map with BR's.
Speaking of Standoff, I'm working on a variant. It's designed to eradicate hog spawn killing, decrease the control of the laser at the beginning of the game and aid in epic mid to long range range combat.
I am preparing a short write up with screenshots of the changes from default (I'll be posting it here shortly) and I would like to see a few 4 on 4 matches on there, to get some feedback.
Anyone willing to assist?
The Librarian
Banned
Carbine needs more love in matchmaking.
Mr Vociferous
Member
This has been my de facto Halo story reference since I first found HBO years ago; and it'll likely remain as such until Bungie or Microsoft develops a more official translation. I really hope that someday they get an official timeline up, particularly as Microsoft begins to expand the fiction down different avenues. I noticed that Buckell's "Protocol" novel, unlike the others before it, didn't have any precise time prints before each chapters. Not sure why that was the case, but I suppose it was somewhat inevitable with the story expanding as dramatically as it is. It'd be cool for the fans to have an official point of reference with lancets gleaning facts from story bible one at a time.Louis Wu said:
Fixed.Dax01 said:
I like the Carbine though. It's easily my favorite Covie weapon.
Louis Wu said:
Thanks, I just read it.
I was just confused about the time anomaly. I knew that the shard on Reach, when they tried to jump with it, caused them to presumably traveled back in time. But, it's cool to see the events unfold in a timeline so I can actually see where the past and present events overlap.
backflip10019
Member
Dax01 said:
It is when you spawn in the middle of the map and are immediately mowed down by a hog. With a BR, I could most likely get a few shots off on the gunner, which over the course of a battle may actually make a huge difference.
Dani said:
I'm always up to kick your non-Flight Elite ass in Standoff
BRs
And :lol at your boner for Covies.
The Librarian
Banned
I can't remember an instance where I was spawned in the middle of a map and "mowed down by a hog." Or, at least, I would spawn in the middle of a map and have a chance to head for cover.backflip10019 said:
I really doubt it would make a difference overall.
What's wrong with Covies? His "boner" for it? Lay off.
backflip10019
Member
Dax01 said:
You've never spawned into Warthog fire? Strange, I feel like that happens relatively normally on larger maps.
Dax01 said:
If I put two shots into the gunner, that's only another 2-3 shots to take him down. Chances are that one of my teammates will take him down, therefore ending what could be a solid spree.
Dax01 said:
Inside joke, man. Dani and I play all the time and he's always saying how much he misses Covies.
The Librarian
Banned
backflip10019 said:
I have but it is very rare.
Chance are that his driver will back off until the gunner's shield have regenerated. It's what I do when I drive someone around.
PedroLumpy
Member
No more "When I play THIS happens!", "Oh yeah, well when I play THIS happens!"," You're wrong", "No YOU'RE wrong" arguments. It's a completely meaningless and can't be shown to be wrong or right. Please spare the rest of us.
alisdair said:
This thinking is exactly why the multiplayer evolution from Halo2 to Halo3 has been stagnant.
---
Your guys' assessment of 'press B and pick up a BR' or 'wait 20 sec's for a new BR to spawn' or 'not everyone likes the BR' is deeply flawed.
I wanna talk about Narrows and show you how BR starts are imperative based on map design/weapon placement and spawning.
If I remember right, on Narrows when you first spawn there are only 2 BR's(one on the left and one on the right pillar). That leaves the third person to pick up the Sniper Rifle and a fourth person stuck with an Assault Rifle or a Mauler.
The fourth person is obviously in a handicapped situation. Because they have an Assault Rifle and are battling against others who wield a BR and power weapons their options are limited.
They can't jump through the Man Cannon because you'll be naded and killed by their sniper. You can't wait for a new BR spawn because your team will be out-numbered and out-gunned on top-mid and lose map control. Your only option is to go top mid and help your teamates with only an Assault Rifle or Mauler. You basically become a sponge while those who have BR's systematically destroy you.
Whether you like using the BR or not you are stupid for not using one. But, that isn't your problem because you're not even given an option to use a BR to fight with! So, your first death is a useless death(yes their are useful deaths in Halo).
Another scenario for you on Narrows:
Assume that I happened to be spawn trapped on Narrows. Because I am playing against idiots they do not know how to spawn trap on Narrows properly. They are in my teams flag and man-cannon spawn forcing me to spawn top-mid with an Assault Rifle. Now with no weapons to pick up, tell me how I am going to take out a BR wielding retard who once sees me takes cover behind a fucking bubble shield or a regen? GFG
The main thing with Narrows is that top-mid control is everything. Even if you try to go through man-cannon you'll be spawn sniped. If you try to go to lobby there are people in your attic shooting you. If you try to go underneath through sniper you're in a spot to be naded and shot by a BR who is located on top-mid. You're basically stuck being spawn killed with a AR against power weapons. You have no access to power weapons.
If you don't have top-mid control or are fighting to take control of top-mid you're doing nothing to help your team win. You can't just wait or you're team is going to be whiped out. So there goes the whole 'wait for a BR to spawn' idea.
The point is Bungie's whole 'have fun' philosophy is fucked. With the addition of Bubble Shields and Regens in Multiplayer I honestly think someone was wasted or fucking high when overseeing the Multiplayer map design. Proof of point, Narrows is just an overall dumb map. Designed by idiots. I said it. I hope some people actually read this and take notes.
If you want a good example of map design look no further than Bungie's own Halo2 BTB maps. The BTB map design in Halo2 is amazing. While some were stupid (Containment could've been good if it were a bit smaller. Burial Mounds is just god-awful and I don't even consider Colossus a BTB map) but most were amazing (Headlong, Waterworks, Coagulation, Relic, Zanzibar, and Terminal). Yes they had spawn problems and starting weapon problems that could be remedied, the vehicles overshadowed most of those problems. BUT... somewhere between the release of the Halo2 map packs and Halo3 someone at Bungie had a brain fart and decided that open-ended sandlot and symmetrical-everything maps are the new thing.
While symmetrical maps provide an even playing ground they should not be done in over-excess. Asymmetrical maps if designed right can be fun and balanced too. It's almost as if symmetrical maps are being made because it takes less thought provoking energy than asymmetrical maps.
And about open sandlot maps, I don't even have to talk about sandtrap. That map is just stupid.
I'll keep it simple if you're still wondering why I am talking about Narrows with regards to BR starts in BTB maps:
Halo3 maps are designed bad. The issue at hand should have nothing to do with which weapons you are spawned with. The issue should have everything to do with the way the map is designed. The map design is what should determine weapon spawns.
If you want a map with alot of corners and small corridors in the map then use the AR on spawn. If you want open maps where firefights could happen then a BR is needed. If you try to incorporate small corridors and open space into a map(Standoff) then allow both weapons to be used off spawn.
K.I.S.S
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