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The Official Halo 3 Thread
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
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Captain Blood
Member
Falagard said:
D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
Dreadnought leaves High Charity. Jumps into the Sol system near Pluto. The stuff that happens with the Chief in the comics takes place while the Dreadnought is headed from Pluto to Mars (I think you can see Mars in the comics). We don't know how it ends, but we'll find out when Uprising #4 releases; regardless, it takes nine days to get from Pluto to Mars, which is perfectly reasonable. At some point (this is just guesswork, since there aren't really any other options), Truth gets eager to get to Earth (maybe he learns new info or something about the Ark), and he makes a final, very short leap to just outside of Earth's orbit.Dax01 said:
BladedExpert
Member
GhaleonEB said:
Wont fix
Stormtrooper30
Member
urk said:
Well it depends, does the Holy Hand Grenade weigh as much as a coconut?
You can play that card for any game, or any expansion pack release.Domino Theory said:
Others will like, if possible, exploring the areas, similar to how people did so in Halo 1 in levels like Halo, Truth & Reconciliation, and 343 Guilty Spark.
However, if it is 3-5 hours straight through, the price, I guess, would be in the shorter range of $20-$30, hopefully. Then again, since this includes the last three Mythic Maps, add on $10 more.
I can't see it being passed as a big announcement, either. However, it was very effective in campaign for Halo 1. Most people enjoyed using other weapons as a chance of pace (Needler, Assault Rifle, Sniper Rifle) because of more ammo lying around (especially the Sniper).EazyB said:
Mr Vociferous
Member
As Cocop stated, this will likely be explained at some point in ODST. In a way, we already have an explanation for it. The UNSC, and specifically the Office of Naval Intelligence, had good reason to determine why the Covenant attacked one location (Eastern Kenya), why they showed up with an insufficient fleet and why they were specifically looking for something = The Ark. There might be more to it than that, but I'd say that's reason enough to fire some paratroopers into the ashen wake.Son of Godzilla said:
And on the Elite matter, I won't lie. I was definitely hoping we'd see them as villains in ODST. But, my expectations weren't sky-high because I think the Brutes in Halo 3 are pretty damn fun to fight as well. I know Bertone was working on AI improvements according to the Staten interview. I'm excited to see what happens there.
It was a good move nonetheless. You wouldn't want the shock of an Elite-less enemy camp to be on day one. I thought the answer was pretty damn sound.LukeSmith said:
Mr Vociferous said:
I agree it was a good move to inform us that there weren't any Elites in ODST early in order to curb player expectations. I think it was a bad decision to leave them out of the game in the first place.
I think the story explanation of why there aren't any Elites in ODST is contrived drivel. If we want to really analyze the situation - we see in the teaser trailer that the ODST are dropping into orbit at the exact same time that the slipstream destroys the city. I'm going to say with absolute certainty that there'd be Elites still in the city at this point, left behind after Regret's quick escape.
A thin cover over the fact that they probably don't have the AI technology in place to allow Elites to fight against player controlled characters and UNSC allies in the Halo 3 engine.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
:lolFalagard said:
It's a design choice, not a technology limitation. That's as stupid as the MLG forum bottom feeders claiming the textures stop their nade bouncing.
Besides, it makes sense to have the Brutes return, specifically if this is an expansion to Halo 3, not Halo 1. Having the same enemies makes sense. It probably also gave them time to further tweak the behaviors and AI instead of having to worry about a host of other issues that introducing elite enemies would bring.
I would love to face elites again, but it seems we'll never see them as enemies in future Bungie games.
I gotta agree on this one. The long fiction explanation in the Update does not address the most important time line of all: from when Regret's ship enters slipspace to when the titular ODST emerges from his drop pod. In Halo 2, New Mombassa was crawling with Elites, and not a Brute to be found when the slipspace jump occurs. Now it's all Brutes, and the Elites are gone. The logistics of extracting every Elite from the ground operations in a contested urban environment and depositing multitudes of Brutes in their stead are formidable. And it would have to take place after the slipspace jump; who would drop them off? Truth's ship is gone.Falagard said:
At any rate, I am glad it was cleared up in advance. I recall a similar question after the Et Tu, Brute? vidoc, and the response was a long post neither confirming or denying anything. 'Tis better to have expectations set now, I appreciate them doing so.
Halo 3, but combating Brutes with a silenced SMG in a dark, rainy urban environment while using some kind of night vision sounds just lovely. I don't think I'll be missing Elites once in the thick of the combat if what we know is any indication of how different it will be from Halo 3 proper.
Dani said:
It could be many things. It could have been a design choice because the game designers felt that it would be confusing for players to go back to fighting Elites when they spent all of Halo 3 with Elites as allies.
It could have also been a design choice based on a technology limitation.
It's not a stupid assumption - we don't fight against Elites in Halo 3. Therefore, we only know for sure that Elites are able to fight other AI opponents only. They're also only in the game for a couple small sections. It's entirely possible that Elites are not fully set up to handle encounters with players in Halo 3. Brute AI has been upgraded significantly from Halo 2. They work in packs, they issue orders to subordinates. Since we don't see complex AI from Elites in Halo 3, it's likely that their AI is simple in comparison to Brutes.
AI is based on smoke and mirrors, and from what I've read Halo 3's engine is a significant overhaul of Halo 2's AI system. If you've read the Bungie publications here http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=15069 and the Gamasutra article on Halo 2's AI here http://www.gamasutra.com/gdc2005/features/20050311/isla_01.shtml you can see the differences.
Theoretical situation: Let's say you're in the planning stages of ODST, and you're a game designer. You know, the guy that thinks up all the ideas, level design, encounter design, etc. You say to the engineering team "We'd like to have Elites in the game". The engineering team says "Well, we don't currently have the Elite AI set up for player encounters. We don't have all the code in place for that, and it hasn't been tested. We could spend the time adding that code, but it would take XX man hours to complete. Not only that, but you as game designers would have to spend XX man hours tweaking the AI parameters to get it working". The game designers would rather have that development time spent elsewhere, so they decide against using Elites and instead use Brutes. Or alternatively, the AI programmers are off working on other projects.
That is all speculation, but it is possible, and even likely.
D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
This is an entirely possible explanation, and one that is equally as possible as it having been a design decision. I doubt we'll ever know which it was.Falagard said:
And again, I'm glad we're getting these discussions out of the way now, rather than letting them derail the hype machine a month before the game's release.
D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
That would be six hours.urk said:
Let me know if you have any more questions, Eric.
Mr Vociferous
Member
Well, of course. The fact of the matter is that all of the Elites on Earth were let go. The economy's a bitch. It's global.Falagard said:
I don't really take any issue with the Bungie explanation, apologetic or otherwise. If we wanted to get granular with the fiction, which is exactly what we're doing, there were Brutes already occupying the UNSC ground on November 03, 2552, according to Ghosts of Onyx, pg. 204-213. Bungie could have just pointed toward those pages and said "no Elites as enemies, sorry," and been done with it. Considering what they did invest in the explanation, I'm really impressed.
All of the Elites deployed in Mombasa perished like everything else, so anyone/thing could have replaced whoever was occupying the site at the time. I actually mentioned this possibility a few pages ago:
In other words, the Elites hit the ground looking for the Ark as explained in Second Sunrise Over New Mombasa, but they were turned to vapor by the rupture. Waiting in the wings was Hiearchs' recommissioning of the entire Sangheili body -- the Jiralhanae segment of his fleet -- a process he had already begun with Tartarus and his minions shortly after the events of the first game as witnessed in First Strike, pgs. 338-340.
BEHOLD, MY NERDITY.
D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
Voc is right; there were entire Covenant warships full of Brutes on Earth at this point, as detailed in Ghosts:
I also think that it's interesting that they were almost setting the stage for the plot of ODST:
I also think that it's interesting that they were almost setting the stage for the plot of ODST:
I'm fine with there being no elites but I really hope there are new enemy types just because I'd like to see something other than the same old set of enemies. I know it's hard to work into the "fiction" but it'd be really nice. I suppose new weapons and hopefully a vehicle or two could help but it's always neat to get to face new enemies.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
Falagard said:
The big ugly alien inside ur compure whazzamicallit is not real. He can dress up to look like a monkey or a purple dolphinman and it would be exactly the same thing.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Yes but you gotta understand that most programmers would be able to switch Brutes AI to Elite AI with a few hours or days of work. I imagine it to be a quite advanced copy and pasting and switching around/editing. After they wrote the AI they designate it to an object most likely being the Brute switching it to the Elite object would be similar.
Yes you would need new animations and visuals and sound effects. The AI is most likely also advancing from H3 to ODST too (obviously).
I'm going to go with they were left out for the reason of that's just how they wanted the story of ODST to go.
Yes you would need new animations and visuals and sound effects. The AI is most likely also advancing from H3 to ODST too (obviously).
I'm going to go with they were left out for the reason of that's just how they wanted the story of ODST to go.
tahrikmili
Member
Curious how they say there won't be any elites 'to fight'.
It sounds a lot like you'll end up allying with them on Mombasa.
I actually find this idea very, very cool.
It sounds a lot like you'll end up allying with them on Mombasa.
I actually find this idea very, very cool.
Zeouterlimits
Member
xxjuicesxx said:
If the Elites were just going to be 'Brutes on a diet' i.e. using Brute A.I. then there would be no point, then I'd say let Bungie have more time with the Brutes.
If there were to be both Brutes & Elites as enemies in ODST then they would have to be distinguishable in how you fight them/how the battles go. Think about how in Halo 2 they were so different, kind of like how every Covenant species is different from one to another.
While the Brutes evolved into something of a similar strategic level as the Elites, I believe there is still room for both.
But in the end, it's 100% Bungie's decision, development time , the smaller team, I'm sure it all adds up to where it was not logistical. I at least hope they considered having the Elites early in the project.
Now, moving on. Had fun playing a few rounds of Social Slayer last night. Plenty of idiotic quitters, but man that's a populated playlist.
Also, how many Battle Rifles are in each base in Valhalla? Because on a 5 man team we spawned with ARs, my team grabbed all the BRs and anything useful while I was left 'holding the bag'.
Fun evening though, think I'll play through the campaign again.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Zeouterlimits said:
Four, two besides the left (or right) man-cannon and two underneath (each near the plasma pistols).
There should be one in the cave near each base, one in the middle around the big rock and a few more scattered around. Feel free to load up a map in forge or something and take a look around any level to find out the weapon placements (make sure to load the modified variants for maps that have them in use as the modified variants, eg Boundless/Snowbound, have different weapon placements in a few key areas, also, modified game types make use of variants, eg, Heavies, as do different playlists, eg, Snipers, Swat, etc).
Hah, the stuff you learn unconsciously from playing this game!
Zeouterlimits
Member
I thought it was 4, just wanted to be sure. I believe it was vanilla Valhalla, or at least what vanilla Valhalla is now (iirc the missile pod used to be down with the sniper rifle at launch, now it's next to the main man cannon).Dani said:
neoism
Member
I'm extremely disappointed in the "No" elites to "fight" in ODST. I quote those two words however, because (sorry not sure if this has been cleared up or not). There should be elites in game still. Wouldn't they be fighting the Brutes along side you, or at least some point in the game were you see or encounter a fight with Elites and Brutes. If there not in the game at all, then that's just a bad and inconsistent decision. OK maybe if the game takes please in the the city that got esploded, "MAYBE" all of them would have been destroyed, but not every single one! I'm sure the whole game will not take place in that one city, I could be wrong. I'm OK with not fighting Elites, but for them to not be in the game at all in just stupid! Urk tell me I shouldn't be butt hurt about this.
Zeouterlimits
Member
neoism said:
Well it's not like you're going to be everywhere in the city. There could be 'some' Elites left somewhere in the city, just that you mightn't be near them.
The Librarian
Banned
Cocopjojo said:
Seems like the story won't disappoint.
OuterWorldVoice said:
backflip10019
Member
Dax01 said:
They'll probably still be available to play as in multi.
I personally don't see why they wouldn't just use the brute ai from halo 3 on the elites. The H3 Brute AI was better then the Elite AI anyway. And also the timeline should be elites during the flashback sequences - levels (before the slipspace event), and brutes patrolling the wasteland Mombossa. I'm sure the issue was the armor and the ai - having to make new brutes without the armor that the elites were rocking, elite armor perms are already done anyway.
I would have just kept it elites only in the flashback sequences, and brutes only in the present.. so there is no need to make seperate AI's so the enemies feel different, and you don't need to create any new skinned brutes for the flashback sequence.
I would have just kept it elites only in the flashback sequences, and brutes only in the present.. so there is no need to make seperate AI's so the enemies feel different, and you don't need to create any new skinned brutes for the flashback sequence.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Brute and Elite AI is THAT different? I call bullshit.
Both in H2 the elites and in H3 the brutes were a bit religous zealot-like sacrificing themselves for the greater good. They would either blindy march in, or give out and take damage and hide behind things. AI isn't going to change for the greater part in a semi-realistic FPS these days.
Realize that a BUNCH of the AI in Halo is just covered by difficulty levels changing damage taken, damage given, accuracy, and rate of fire.
And yes I've read the AI Bungie.net publications, it was like hanging out with Captain Obvious.
Both in H2 the elites and in H3 the brutes were a bit religous zealot-like sacrificing themselves for the greater good. They would either blindy march in, or give out and take damage and hide behind things. AI isn't going to change for the greater part in a semi-realistic FPS these days.
Realize that a BUNCH of the AI in Halo is just covered by difficulty levels changing damage taken, damage given, accuracy, and rate of fire.
And yes I've read the AI Bungie.net publications, it was like hanging out with Captain Obvious.
D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, but this would make very little sense. The Rookie loses consciousness and then wakes up six hours later, both on October 20 (the same day that Regret left for Delta Halo). It's not until two weeks later - on November 3 - that the Covenant falls apart, and the Elites begin to look for allies against the Prophets. It's been implied that pretty much all of Halo 3:ODST takes place over a period of twelve hours or so: the flashbacks prior to when the Rookie wakes up, and then the several hours he spends looking for the clues which trigger these sequences. So, unless the game skips forward about two weeks - which is possible - then we won't see any Elites as allies.tahrikmili said:
xxjuicesxx
Member
I don't think we'll be teaming with Elites in ODST but you might see foreshadowing of an alliance or human emotions within them.
Stormtrooper30
Member
xxjuicesxx said:
Have you ever attepmted to program anything in your life? You cannot simply "switch" the two AIs in and out of different skins. The two enemies are comepletely different in nature. The Brutes are organized in packs and are more prone to brute force attacks. Elite enemies are far more tacticle and not prone to simple maneuvers like the brutes. The Elites are a lot like humans, they take cover and shoot from a distance while occationally lobbing grenades.
And as someone above said, if you just switched the AIs, then have you really changed anything?
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