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The Official Halo 3 Thread

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The best solution is to ultimately make the maps free, but that tends to hurt sales to a large degree.

This isn't a big deal, anyway, really. Segmenting the population is only an issue in games that aren't packing such a ridiculous user base.
 
Digital Limit said:
Anyway, the best solution is to ultimately make the maps free, but that tends to hurt sales to a large degree.

The fact that it's still not free is mind-boggling to me. It's been 11 months since they came out. Everyone that was going to buy it has it by now, especially after the price cut to 600MS and that one-week gimmick where it was 400MS.
 
AnEternalEnigma said:
All Halo 3's system did was depend on every person in the lobby having the DLC. It didn't do the behind-the-scenes work that Call of Duty 4 does when it comes to matching you with DLC or Non-DLC players. When they saw that barely anyone was getting the Heroic maps in regular playlists, they just killed the idea.

I absolutely remember a Weekly Update before Legendary came out explaining that the system didn't work like they intended so they were just going to kill it.
I absolutely remember getting a few matching of Social Big Team Battles on Avalanche after the Legendary maps shipped and well before it became DLC BTB or Social Big Team. It sure wasn't frequent but it did happen. I've also gotten the likes of Blackout in Team Slayer even though the Legendary maps aren't required for that playlist.
 
AnEternalEnigma said:
The fact that it's still not free is mind-boggling to me. It's been 11 months since they came out. Everyone that was going to buy it has it by now, especially after the price cut to 600MS and that one-week gimmick where it was 400MS.

My buddy bought them last night. Your whole theory is shattered.
 
AnEternalEnigma said:
The fact that it's still not free is mind-boggling to me. It's been 11 months since they came out. Everyone that was going to buy them has them by now, especially after the price cut to 600MS and that one-week sale where it was 400MS.

That's not true, though. People are still buying them. My little cousins that recently got the game as well as friends of mine that have wanted to play with me as of recent have purchased the content. Keeping it out there keeps people buying it, as well as defeats the idea that people can just wait and get it free (probably the most dangerous part of the business model).

Ironically, the announcement that ODST will have all of the maps included, essentially offering them for "free", has brought that not-so-economic idea back into everyone's mind.
 
An alternative to making Legendary Free would just be to include Legendary in the Mythic Pack. That would at least provide a few people the incentive to buy the new pack and get more people in the DLC playlist.
 
*sigh*

I guess I'm just bitter that the very consumer-friendly "two months and then it's free" model used for Halo 2 was killed and that I have to wade through so many different map requirements for the playlists. Community goodwill doesn't write the checks I suppose.
 
AnEternalEnigma said:
*sigh*

I guess I'm just bitter that the very consumer-friendly "two months and then it's free" model used for Halo 2 was killed and that I have to wade through so many different map requirements for the playlists. Community goodwill doesn't write the checks I suppose.
And it's perfectly reasonable to feel that way. All of us would like to see the maps go free, those who've payed for them and those who are waiting.

I do wonder why MS has changed their practices when it comes DLC distribution. Were the Halo 2 maps not profitable or is MS just trying to milk the consumer at the consumer's expense as well as Bungie's?

I've already made my assumption.
 
MS has been all over the spectra this gen with DLC. The Crackdown DLC is still full price and the Ninja Gaiden 2 mission pack wasn't even discounted after the game was unplayable for 2 months. The Heroic pack going free is probably the last charitable thing we'll see from them aside from the blue moon discount.
 
EazyB said:
And it's perfectly reasonable to feel that way. All of us would like to see the maps go free, those who've payed for them and those who are waiting.

I do wonder why MS has changed their practices when it comes DLC distribution. Were the Halo 2 maps not profitable or is MS just trying to milk the consumer at the consumer's expense as well as Bungie's?

I've already made my assumption.

I think the answer is that the Heroic Map Pack sold poorly.
 
ahoyhoy said:
An alternative to making Legendary Free would just be to include Legendary in the Mythic Pack. That would at least provide a few people the incentive to buy the new pack and get more people in the DLC playlist.
That would completely screw people like me over. :(
 
AnEternalEnigma said:
*sigh*

I guess I'm just bitter that the very consumer-friendly "two months and then it's free" model used for Halo 2 was killed and that I have to wade through so many different map requirements for the playlists. Community goodwill doesn't write the checks I suppose.

If I were to guess, Bungie pushed for the maps to be free in Halo 2, but with Halo 3 MS saw an opportunity and this is how they're going about it.

In the end, it's starting to hurt the game because you'll have a growing number of unplayable maps for online play. And I'm sure MS doesn't realize this, whereas Bungie does because this game is their baby.

Just imagine if the Heroic map pack still wasn't free...

At the same time, if they reduced the Legendary pack to 200 or 400 pts, it's not a big issue. Why not set it at 400 pts so that people can buy Mythic and Legendary for a cool 1000 pts?
 
For all you complaining about the Legendary maps, why not wait out another 9 months. You have already spent 11 months waiting. :p

Stop being cheap, buy the god damn legendary maps, they are worth it.

reduced the Legendary pack to 200 or 400 pts, it's not a big issue. Why not set it at 400 pts so that people can buy Mythic and Legendary for a cool 1000 pts?

Well like you said; Microsoft [unfortunately] controls the maps (pricing, date) now.. : [
So someone should tell MS its time to lower the price on them.
 
imo assemby and orbital look over detailed and its distracting. id like fighting in a foggy scarab factory or a dark creepy space station in campaign, but in mp i want to fight somewhere that is not so atmospheric to the point where it diminishes the play.

also bungie's art is overrated and inconsistent. some of the colors and designs on maps are just terrible but in other places theyre amazing. its like one part of the art team is amazing and than the rest are just awful

i like the look of the crypt with the blue light on the walls. alot nicer than foundry, a solid look. i was worried all sandbox maps would be in the sand, and i'm glad that's not true now
 
sixthsubset said:
imo assemby and orbital look over detailed and its distracting. id like fighting in a foggy scarab factory or a dark creepy space station in campaign, but in mp i want to fight somewhere that is not so atmospheric to the point where it diminishes the play.

also bungie's art is overrated and inconsistent. some of the colors and designs on maps are just terrible but in other places theyre amazing. its like one part of the art team is amazing and than the rest are just awful

i like the look of the crypt with the blue light on the walls. alot nicer than foundry, a solid look. i was worried all sandbox maps would be in the sand, and i'm glad that's not true now
Are you serious? Come the fuck on. How long are you going to keep trolling like this? Jesus.

Yes, I know this is extremely ironic.
 
sixthsubset said:
imo assemby and orbital look over detailed and its distracting. id like fighting in a foggy scarab factory or a dark creepy space station in campaign, but in mp i want to fight somewhere that is not so atmospheric to the point where it diminishes the play.

also bungie's art is overrated and inconsistent. some of the colors and designs on maps are just terrible but in other places theyre amazing. its like one part of the art team is amazing and than the rest are just awful

i like the look of the crypt with the blue light on the walls. alot nicer than foundry, a solid look. i was worried all sandbox maps would be in the sand, and i'm glad that's not true now
What, in your opinion, is the terrible art in the Mythic pack?

The only DLC maps I haven't like aesthetically have been Rat's Nest, Foundry, and Blackout because the rusty human architecture is unappealing to me but Orbital looks completely different and much better.

Blueblur1 said:
Are you serious? Come the fuck on. How long are you going to keep trolling like this? Jesus.

Yes, I know this is extremely ironic.
wat?
 
sixthsubset said:
i like the look of the crypt with the blue light on the walls. alot nicer than foundry, a solid look. i was worried all sandbox maps would be in the sand, and i'm glad that's not true now

I agree with this stud. Every map should just be solid grey walls. It would be beautiful. Screw the luscious foilage or Forerunner buildings of all those other ugly maps. All I want is a solid color. After all, grey goes with everything.
XD


As far as realease dates go, I miss the days when it seemed like Bungie actually had control over the game they created. Now it just seems like Microsft has a chokehold over the studio and IP.
I know that MS owns the Halo Franchise
 
EazyB said:
What, in your opinion, is the terrible art in the Mythic pack?

The only DLC maps I haven't like aesthetically have been Rat's Nest, Foundry, and Blackout because the rusty human architecture is unappealing to me but Orbital looks completely different and much better.

Yeah, Foundry is probably the most depressingly brown map to play on, and unfortunately it's the setting for everything creative that has come out of the community.

Luckily, I really like the mood they set with Sandbox. The glowing orbs alongside the nighttime spotlight thingers really works for me.
 
Add me to the list of people with a silver chicken ... :D

2f18f9ea-d33c-4b2c-8580-8c562e9b128a.gif
 
I hope that's the video where he places like two things and one of them falls over :lol

Also, didn't urk say the bank was like over 1000? I'm reading like 500, unless that IGN guy spawned a bunch of shit before he left the middle.
 
Blueblur1 said:
That would completely screw people like me over. :(

Who are people like you? People who won't purchase any Halo DLC? Buying one 800 pt DLC sounds better than one 800 and one 400.
 
The beautiful expanse of blue griddiness that is the skybox:
dagrid.jpg

Digital Limit said:
I hope that's the video where he places like two things and one of them falls over :lol

Also, didn't urk say the bank was like over 1000? I'm reading like 500, unless that IGN guy spawned a bunch of shit before he left the middle.
It reads $480 but you can see that the budget bar is already ~3/4 of the way full so $1500 seems correct.
GM Bullfrog said:
Add me to the list of people with a silver chicken ... :D

2f18f9ea-d33c-4b2c-8580-8c562e9b128a.gif
congrats

you using a different GT?
 
EazyB said:
The beautiful expanse of blue griddiness that is the skybox:
dagrid.jpg


It reads $480 but you can see that the budget bar is already ~3/4 of the way full so $1500 seems correct.

congrats

you using a different GT?

I'm just worried that it's actually "1500" in that if the items on the main level actually gave you cash back (which they don't) you'd have that much.
 
EazyB said:
The beautiful expanse of blue griddiness that is the skybox:
dagrid.jpg


It reads $480 but you can see that the budget bar is already ~3/4 of the way full so $1500 seems correct.

congrats

you using a different GT?

Eazy, Cocopjojo says you hurt his feelings and he would like you to send him a special apology.
 
Digital Limit said:
I'm just worried that it's actually "1500" in that if the items on the main level actually gave you cash back (which they don't) you'd have that much.

Budget and the object limit are two separate things. Deleting objects will give you your bucks back. But you should still reuse instead of deleting the default objects so you don't hit your limit sooner that you should.
 
Edit: Beaten by Urk the Jerk
Digital Limit said:
I'm just worried that it's actually "1500" in that if the items on the main level actually gave you cash back (which they don't) you'd have that much.
You should get the money back if you choose to delete the default objects. What you will lose though by doing so comes from a different budget, the Object Limit Number.

Just in case you missed it here's where they discussed the OLN in the BWU:
When you finally get your hands on Sandbox, draft out your ultimate map design, and fire up Forge to make it happen, you'll need to be aware of two distinct concepts. The first is one that you're more than likely already familiar with: Budget. When most players talk about a map's budget, they're referring to the dollar value assigned to objects and the total dollars available to spend placing them.

Each object is assigned a specific dollar value, and when dropped in or deleted from play, the maps overall available budget is updated to reflect the most recent addition or subtraction. When players tap out the budget, they can't place anymore objects without first removing another.

Got it? Good. But there's another budget you might have to consider when you build your Sandbox map: the Object Limit Number. We'll call it the OLN from here on out in this update (please don't sue us, Outdoor Living Network).

Oh snap, a secondary budget?! Yup. Simply put, a map can only contain a fixed number of total unique objects, regardless of how many budget dollars you have available. When the OLN cap is reached, you're done placing objects, even if you still have money in the bank (shoteh what you drank?). You're then forced to delete something should you want to keep on keepin' on.

So why are we telling you this? Well, in test we frequently ran into the upper boundary of the OLN before we ran out of dollars. You probably will too. We just wanted to make you aware.

We also wanted to let you in on a little trick we learned. It turns out that all the default objects on Sandbox are automatically and irrevocably factored into the OLN. That means that if you delete them and create a blank "canvas," you won't be reclaiming those objects and you'll ultimately hit your OLN value long before you really should.

So, instead of making a "canvas," you should stack all of the original objects off to the side (spawn points included, they're also factored into the calculation), away from your build site, and save them for reuse later. That way, you'll be able to make the most out of the total number of objects you're given to work with.
Hope that clears things up for ya.


Merguson said:
Eazy, Cocopjojo says you hurt his feelings and he would like you to send him a special apology.
You may tell Coco P. Jojo that I haven't the faintest idea what I've done to hurt his feelings yet I don't regret whatever it was in the least.
 
The sky level is one of the best things ever. I just wish that getting below that level wouldn't kill you. It would have been awesome to see structures going from the bottom level to the top.
 
Oh hey, thanks urk and Eazy.

Another clarification that was already discussed: can you teleport with Forge stuff, or how will you use it all if you're doing a non-middle level?
 
Digital Limit said:
Oh hey, thanks urk and Eazy.

Another clarification that was already discussed: can you teleport with Forge stuff, or how will you use it all if you're doing a non-middle level?
Urk answered that one for me a while back - you can grab the stuff on the middle level and travel through the teleporter with it to the sky bubble. That way the full budget can be used on the top level.
 
sup peeps. it's good see some content from media sites putting up videos and ish of the new maps. They all look really good. Especially Sandbox and Assembly. I'm so pumped for Sandbox and can't believe there are 3 planes to build on. Shit is crazy. I'm hoping there's gonna be a nice Warlock remake in that basement.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Urk answered that one for me a while back - you can grab the stuff on the middle level and travel through the teleporter with it to the sky bubble. That way the full budget can be used on the top level.

Oh alright, thanks!

Seems like Sandbox will end up with like 3 canvas iterations: one with everything moved into the Skybubble, one with everything moved into the Crypt, and one with everything removed altogether.
 
Digital Limit said:
Oh alright, thanks!

Seems like Sandbox will end up with like 3 canvas iterations: one with everything moved into the Skybubble, one with everything moved into the Crypt, and one with everything removed altogether.
Or eventually one that uses two or three of the planes in one match -- players moving to and fro between planes via teleporters.
 
Digital Limit said:
Oh alright, thanks!

Seems like Sandbox will end up with like 3 canvas iterations: one with everything moved into the Skybubble, one with everything moved into the Crypt, and one with everything removed altogether.

Bungie has said this isn't a good idea. It is better to move them to the side and use those default pieces as needed rather than delete and re-add them.

BWU said:
We also wanted to let you in on a little trick we learned. It turns out that all the default objects on Sandbox are automatically and irrevocably factored into the OLN. That means that if you delete them and create a blank "canvas," you won't be reclaiming those objects and you'll ultimately hit your OLN value long before you really should.

I wonder how this will impact some of the more advanced forge techniques?

KevinRo said:
I wonder who will be or is in charge of implementing/designing the default matchmaking map? No offense, but hopefully it's not the same person who did the Foundry layout.

Shishka has already stated in this thread that there are going to be multiple iterations of Sandbox in MM when Mythic hits the XBLMP.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14810204&postcount=86139
 
Digital Limit said:
Oh alright, thanks!

Seems like Sandbox will end up with like 3 canvas iterations: one with everything moved into the Skybubble, one with everything moved into the Crypt, and one with everything removed altogether.

I wonder who will be or is in charge of implementing/designing the default matchmaking map? No offense, but hopefully it's not the same person who did the Foundry layout.
 
KevinRo said:
I wonder who will be or is in charge of implementing/designing the default matchmaking map? No offense, but hopefully it's not the same person who did the Foundry layout.
I'm not really sure if any can really be called the "default" variant since several will be appearing simultaneously at the playlist's launch, and while only one will probably be called "Sandbox" the others aren't really iterations created later down the road by fans as was the case with Foundry.

The Sandbox everyone knows from the images and videos was, unless I'm mistaken, made by Dan Miller. I think Shishka and at least one Bungie tester were responsible for some of the other variants we've heard mentioned like Cubed, Vindictive, Plurality and Tundra -- but I'm not entirely sure of all who are responsible or all which will appear in matchmaking on day one.
 
KevinRo said:
I wonder who will be or is in charge of implementing/designing the default matchmaking map? No offense, but hopefully it's not the same person who did the Foundry layout.

Personally I thought the two spools of wire next to the giant brown crate was genius.
 
Ramirez said:
Me too.

http://vimeo.com/1333800

Also, Assembly with BR starts is going to be h-a-w-t, and the mid Sandbox variant is looking like a Beaver Creek type map, something 3 is desperately missing, can't wait to play them! :D
I was so going to post that gif:
ramspooled_0001-1.gif


The default mid sandbox is sorta like a vehicular beaver creek but I think the crypt would be a perfect place to remake the beaver in all its glory.
 
EazyB said:
The default mid sandbox is sorta like a vehicular beaver creek but I think the crypt would be a perfect place to remake the beaver in all its glory.

Agreed. The Crypt should spawn some very nice small symmetrical maps. WIN
 
It's going to be map remake overload when Sandbox is out. :D But I will be carrying low expectations from these remakes from the first couple of weeks after release. Once they've been tweaked a little and are on "v3" of their map, I think it would become insanely fun.

I want to see more remakes of Halo PC/CE maps since those are the ones that never made it into the xbox. Anyone have a good site to review the Halo PC and CE maps?
 
FourDoor said:
I want to see more remakes of Halo PC/CE maps since those are the ones that never made it into the xbox. Anyone have a good site to review the Halo PC and CE maps?
That'd be interesting. I'd guess that almost all of the indoor maps (and a good number of the small-to-mid outdoor maps) we've played in past Halo titles could be reworked by way of Sandbox's assets. I was going to work on remakes, but I don't think I have the time to invest in the details of accurately bringing a map over -- and if it wasn't accurately brought over, I'd be pissed. So, instead, I'm going to work on a few original maps which are somewhat inspired by design conventions I loved from Halo 2.

I'll leave the remakes to the ForgeHub and other groups like that who are really talented when it comes to merging objects and redesigning old playspaces with new assets. I'd be extremely interested (read: thrilled) to see if someone could remake Damnation. Remade maps like Sanctuary and Warlock are an inevitable reality of Sandbox -- Damnation and its verticality would be a beast to work on and an absolute gem if they got it to work in the SkyBubble.
 
I agree. The mast majority of maps out there will be remakes but I think the true fun to be had will be from the original designed maps which is why I'm excited to see all the different map variants coming to matchmaking right out of the gates. I for one will be looking at the design of these sandbox variants closely to see how to build a MM quality map without having to merge objects together.

There are fun times to be had in the next few months.
 
All the maps are so hot. One that hasn't got as much love as the others maybe is Orbital. Orbital sounds/looks great for a nice game of infection and hide & seek, maybe even apply some filters to spice up the mood. I've read about all these hidden tunnels and nooks and crannys on the map, and of course the pits of death should help make this great for infection. It has a crazy, almost scary vibe to it.

[edit] MSNBC Mythic Map Pack Interview Video - http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=news&cid=17480
 
I might miss out in the premature Mythic jizz party due to limited net access. Boo.

The bright side is that I'll probably be in line with all the non-Halo Wars LE folk due to timing, so I'm sure there will be a nice shindig here.

We need more footage of the tower lasers, I haven't seen any yet I don't think.
 
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