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[Falagard]

Absolutely. My post above wasn't really addressing the large maps in Halo 3 which I feel have been really successful, but the small and midsize ones, which I really feel didn't meet the lofty mark placed on by Halo 2. Not that they're horrible by any means, but that I just enjoyed the earlier design philosophy more.

If it's the latter, then there's about a dozen H1/H2 maps that will take issue with you. Maps that held my attention for years, not weeks and months. And they had a similar design philosophy.

I think Halo 3's biggest flaw was that they should have dedicated a team to simply redoing all the old maps from Halo 2 to bring them into Halo 3. Or at least 75% of them, the ones that were considered favorites. I think this should be the same thing for all first person or third person shooter games moving forward as well.

I know a lot of people who didn't enjoy Halo 3's online as much as Halo 2, and when I ask why they usually just say it's not as fun. And after some probing it usually turns out it isn't the core gameplay changes, such as equipment, that is the problem. It's the maps.

This has come up a ton of times, of course, on these forums. The age old question of "Would you rather have remakes or new maps" and I say... Halo is a huge franchise, worth millions and millions of dollars. Do both. Bungie has limited resources, outsource the remakes then. Whatever it takes.

It's too late for Halo 3, obviously, but pay attention, Microsoft, for Halo 4.

 

[Slightly Live]

I think Halo 3's biggest flaw was that they should have dedicated a team to simply redoing all the old maps from Halo 2 to bring them into Halo 3. Or at least 75% of them, the ones that were considered favorites. I think this should be the same thing for all first person or third person shooter games moving forward as well.

I know a lot of people who didn't enjoy Halo 3's online as much as Halo 2, and when I ask why they usually just say it's not as fun. And after some probing it usually turns out it isn't the core gameplay changes, such as equipment, that is the problem. It's the maps.

This has come up a ton of times, of course, on these forums. The age old question of "Would you rather have remakes or new maps" and I say... Halo is a huge franchise, worth millions and millions of dollars. Do both. Bungie has limited resources, outsource the remakes then. Whatever it takes.

It's too late for Halo 3, obviously, but pay attention, Microsoft, for Halo 4.

I'm surprised we haven't seen more maps at this point, but, with Halo 3 still so popular despite the lack of maps, do you think their is much incentive to rush them out, knowing that people will pay for them no matter how long they have to wait?

I think this clearly demonstrates a difference between Microsoft's strategy and Bungie's. Microsoft want to stretch every penny from the consumer with the least amount of work and money spent, Bungie just seem to want to allow a quicker delivery of content. Both are profitable, one more so.

 

[Ramirez]

More like May 3rd, amirite?

 

[EazyB]

I'm surprised we haven't seen more maps at this point, but, with Halo 3 still so popular despite the lack of maps, do you think their is much incentive to rush them out, knowing that people will pay for them no matter how long they have to wait?

I think this clearly demonstrates a difference between Microsoft's strategy and Bungie's. Microsoft want to stretch every penny from the consumer with the least amount of work and money spent, Bungie just seem to want to allow a quicker delivery of content. Both are profitable, one more so.

Microsoft's strategy of delaying maps that have been ready since fall is not the more profitable strategy for the Halo franchise, it's the more profitable strategy for Microsoft. Sure a ton of people will hold on to their copies of Halo 3 despite the lack of content for what will be almost a year and these same people will, in large, buy the map pack whenever it does come out. But that's not the best thing for Halo fans or even the best way to squeeze money out of Halo fans. The maps have been delayed so MS and Epic could sell more copies of Gears 2, now Halo Wars, and eventually ODST (Bungie would benefit from "adding value" to ODST so I'll leave it out of the equation).

Mythic map packs would have been downloaded 5 months ago than they will in 2 months. Despite Halo's ability to stick it out in the top 2 it's numbers surely haven't increased and if anything more people are trading in Halo than there are people buying it new. The longer Mythic is held back and the more time it takes the Legendary maps to become free, the more it hurts the Halo franchise. People will look back at their experience with Halo 3, how they didn't enjoy the experience because it got stale too quickly, and won't be as interested had the content been handled better. Yay Gears 2, yippee Halo Wars, way to go MS; too bad core Halo franchise.

 

[backflip10019]

Honestly, because of Halo's overall popularity in regard to Microsoft's other games, I can't see MS holding back the maps from the general Live population for more than 2 weeks after Halo Wars drops. I'm predicting that the 3 Halo Wars exclusive maps will be out to the general public by March 17th at the latest.

 

[FourDoor]

When discussing the delays imposed on the Mythic Map Packs, I think one point keeps getting overlooked here. Why is it that 3 of the previously announced Mythic maps were delayed a year to be bundled with ODST vs. bundling ODST with 3 new "ODST" multiplayer maps of their own?

I think the sad possibility here is that Bungie may have said, ok here are the last 6 maps we're ever making for Halo3. If true, it will be a bitter sweet day when ODST is released.

 

[GM Bullfrog]

More like May 3rd, amirite?

Hopefully not that long ..... God I hope not anyway

 

[Falagard]

When discussing the delays imposed on the Mythic Map Packs, I think one point keeps getting overlooked here. Why is it that 3 of the previously announced Mythic maps were delayed a year to be bundled with ODST vs. bundling ODST with 3 new "ODST" multiplayer maps of their own?

I think the sad possibility here is that Bungie may have said, ok here are the last 6 maps we're ever making for Halo3. If true, it will be a bitter sweet day when ODST is released.

I'm pretty sure they've already said or implied that these are the last 6 maps for Halo 3.

 

[Slightly Live]

Microsoft's strategy of delaying maps that have been ready since fall is not the more profitable strategy for the Halo franchise, it's the more profitable strategy for Microsoft. Sure a ton of people will hold on to their copies of Halo 3 despite the lack of content for what will be almost a year and these same people will, in large, buy the map pack whenever it does come out. But that's not the best thing for Halo fans or even the best way to squeeze money out of Halo fans. The maps have been delayed so MS and Epic could sell more copies of Gears 2, now Halo Wars, and eventually ODST (Bungie would benefit from "adding value" to ODST so I'll leave it out of the equation).

Mythic map packs would have been downloaded 5 months ago than they will in 2 months. Despite Halo's ability to stick it out in the top 2 it's numbers surely haven't increased and if anything more people are trading in Halo than there are people buying it new. The longer Mythic is held back and the more time it takes the Legendary maps to become free, the more it hurts the Halo franchise. People will look back at their experience with Halo 3, how they didn't enjoy the experience because it got stale too quickly, and won't be as interested had the content been handled better. Yay Gears 2, yippee Halo Wars, way to go MS; too bad core Halo franchise.

See, I hate the fact that we are having these discussions in the first place. I don't think anyone could argue that the release of these maps hasn't been changed to suit the publisher's needs. It's a testament to the quality of the game and Bungie that it's fans are willing to put up with this and, at the end of the day, still lay down the money.

Yes it does seem like the hardcore Halo fan is being squeezed and held to the publisher's wishes. It's rather silly to see content finished, consumers asking, nay, demanding to be allowed to pay for it, yet having it held back and delayed and pushed back.

My experience with Bungie and Halo online has shown me that Bungie are very capable at producing quality DLC and work very diligently incorporating the DLC into their already shipped software, so any delays in these map's release is certainly nothing to do with Bungie messing up or coming up against any technical issues preventing their release. Which lays the blame at Microsoft, who, wouldn't you know, had an interest in promoting a competing software release, along with DLC on the same platform.

To makes matters worse, it seems like Gears 2 just hasn't lived up to expectations. It just seems like, to Halo fans, having been forced to wait longer, they have little extra to show for it. We'll be just as happy with these new maps when we all get our hands on them as we could have been months ago, the difference being we had to wait. It seems increasing likely that we'll have nothing to gain for this wait except lower satisfaction and a sense that we don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. They want out money and don't care how stale our experiences becomes in between purchases.

 

[GM Bullfrog]

See, I hate the fact that we are having these discussions in the first place. I don't think anyone could argue that the release of these maps hasn't been changed to suit the publisher's needs. It's a testament to the quality of the game and Bungie that it's fans are willing to put up with this and, at the end of the day, still lay down the money.

Yes it does seem like the hardcore Halo fan is being squeezed and held to the publisher's wishes. It's rather silly to see content finished, consumers asking, nay, demanding to be allowed to pay for it, yet having it held back and delayed and pushed back.

My experience with Bungie and Halo online has shown me that Bungie are very capable at producing quality DLC and work very diligently incorporating the DLC into their already shipped software, so any delays in these map's release is certainly nothing to do with Bungie messing up or coming up against any technical issues preventing their release. Which lays the blame at Microsoft, who, wouldn't you know, had an interest in promoting a competing software release, along with DLC on the same platform.

To makes matters worse, it seems like Gears 2 just hasn't lived up to expectations. It just seems like, to Halo fans, having been forced to wait longer, they have little extra to show for it. We'll be just as happy with these new maps when we all get our hands on them as we could have been months ago, the difference being we had to wait. It seems increasing likely that we'll have nothing to gain for this wait except lower satisfaction and a sense that we don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. They want out money and don't care how stale our experiences becomes in between purchases.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[fin]

I'm predicting that the 3 Halo Wars exclusive maps will be out to the general public by March 17th at the latest.

What's the last day of spring? Sometime in June?

The maps have been delayed so MS and Epic could sell more copies of Gears 2, now Halo Wars, and eventually ODST (Bungie would benefit from "adding value" to ODST so I'll leave it out of the equation).

qft and Fable 2

 

[xDEILGYREx]

I think Halo 3's biggest flaw was that they should have dedicated a team to simply redoing all the old maps from Halo 2 to bring them into Halo 3. Or at least 75% of them, the ones that were considered favorites. I think this should be the same thing for all first person or third person shooter games moving forward as well.

It's too late for Halo 3, obviously, but pay attention, Microsoft, for Halo 4.

Yup, don't understand why the H2 maps didn't get a facelift and included in H3.
I got a bunch of crap when I complained about H3's launch of 11 maps.

I thought with Halo3 being the flagship game of the 360, MS/Bungie would have given us map overdose this time around.
Is there such a thing as too many maps? I dunno, ask UTIII on PC and PS3.

Who would NOT want the option, even if you were sick of the H2 maps, to play some Halo3 -
Ivory Tower Slayer, Tombstone TS, Sanctuary Neutral Bomb, Headlong Assault, Relic Single Flag, and Midship classic CTF?
AR starts instead of SMG, equipment this time around, minor changes/a mancannon here and there, Mongooses...would be sweet.

 

[EazyB]

I'm pretty sure they've already said or implied that these are the last 6 maps for Halo 3.

Yeah, that's the impression I've gotten as well. Hopefully they outsource some maps if their development schedule doesn't allow for more time spent making Halo 3 maps. It's disappointing because the Mythic maps will only bring the total map count up to 24 while didn't Halo 2 eventually see 25? That coupled with dear old Frankie's quote about how "Halo 3 would evtually have so many maps..." it seemed like Bungie's goal was to at the very least have more maps in 3 than in 2.

To makes matters worse, it seems like Gears 2 just hasn't lived up to expectations. It just seems like, to Halo fans, having been forced to wait longer, they have little extra to show for it. We'll be just as happy with these new maps when we all get our hands on them as we could have been months ago, the difference being we had to wait. It seems increasing likely that we'll have nothing to gain for this wait except lower satisfaction and a sense that we don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. They want out money and don't care how stale our experiences becomes in between purchases.

Great post but I have to disagree with the bolded part.

I can only speak for myself but by the time the Mythic maps come out I'll be, for the most part, sick of every single other map because I'd have played them over and over, back to back, so many times. If there were six other maps spliced in to add to the variety chances are I wouldn't be sick of the existing maps and just as happy to see the new Mythic ones pop up. Than again many probably haven't sunk as much time into Halo 3 as I have.

Spoiler

It'd be interesting to get Omlet's Chinese exp farmers' opinions on this matter.

 

[Slightly Live]

Yup, don't understand why the H2 maps didn't get a facelift and included in H3.
I got a bunch of crap when I complained about H3's launch of 11 maps.

I thought with Halo3 being the flagship game of the 360, MS/Bungie would have given us map overdose this time around.
Is there such a thing as too many maps? I dunno, ask UTIII on PC and PS3.

Who would NOT want the option, even if you were sick of the H2 maps, to play some Halo3 -
Ivory Tower Slayer, Tombstone TS, Sanctuary Neutral Bomb, Headlong Assault, Relic Single Flag, and Midship classic CTF?
AR starts instead of SMG, equipment this time around, minor changes/a mancannon here and there, Mongooses...would be sweet.

As someone who has never played Halo 2 online, I'd be willing to pay a premium for a collection of older maps with minimal work put into them. To be honest, I'd be willing to pay for any new maps at this point. But, it seems me and my cash doesn't have a choice. We are gonna be told how, when and what we are going to get by a company that is not responsible for the actual content we'll end up paying for.

Great post but I have to disagree with the bolded part.

I can only speak for myself but by the time the Mythic maps come out I'll be, for the most part, sick of every single other map because I'd have played them over and over, back to back, so many times. If there were six other maps spliced in to add to the variety chances are I wouldn't be sick of the existing maps and just as happy to see the new Mythic ones pop up. Than again many probably haven't sunk as much time into Halo 3 as I have.

Thanks dude. Let me clear that point up. I meant that most people will be just as happy with the new maps then as they would have been months not, not that the same people will be happy having the same existing maps and nothing else until the new maps actual hit. I think many people will feel more negatively towards the older maps, not because of their quality or anything, but because they have been stuck with them without anything new for an extended period of time.

Basically many people will be in the same boat as you, bored of the older maps a lot more than they would have been had the newer maps been released earlier. I know the fatigue is setting in with me also at this point. The experience is starting to become stale and uninteresting. I want more variety and Bungie have been nothing but excellent in providing a diverse experience, even if I do disagree in some areas, such as the implementation of Foundry variants.

It's a shame that all this mess is reflecting badly on Bungie from some fans that are not as informed as we are on this issue.

 

[FourDoor]

Yeah, that's the impression I've gotten as well. Hopefully they outsource some maps if their development schedule doesn't allow for more time spent making Halo 3 maps. It's disappointing because the Mythic maps will only bring the total map count up to 24 while didn't Halo 2 eventually see 25? That coupled with dear old Frankie's quote about how "Halo 3 would evtually have so many maps..." it seemed like Bungie's goal was to at the very least have more maps in 3 than in 2.

Reality just hit me hard...

 

[backflip10019]

*best gif on the fucking planet*

:lol I love this.

 

[GhaleonEB]

:lol I love this.

Where is that from?

 

[Deleted member 21120]

Where is that from?

CareerBuilder.com Super Bowl ad from last night.

 

[urk]

It's disappointing because the Mythic maps will only bring the total map count up to 24 while didn't Halo 2 eventually see 25? That coupled with dear old Frankie's quote about how "Halo 3 would evtually have so many maps..." it seemed like Bungie's goal was to at the very least have more maps in 3 than in 2.

Halo 2 has 23 multiplayer maps.

 

[EazyB]

Halo 2 has 23 multiplayer maps.

That's my bad, I couldn't remember so I googled it. Turns out I was counting the additional 2 maps in Halo 2 Vista.

Maybe Halo 3 Vista will have more maps.

 

[Slightly Live]

Maybe Halo 3 Windows 7 Exclusive (but eventually cracked for older OS's) will have more maps.

Fixed.

 

[FinFan]

thanks for the AV

 

[LukeSmith]

Halo 2 has 23 multiplayer maps.

So I guess that's that, then.

Truth be told, maps for Halo 3 take a long time to make, playtest and the man hours that artists spend finishing them are tremendous. The remaining six maps, three of which will be a part of ODST this fall, are an end cap for the downloadable support we're putting behind Halo 3 - Shishka will still be maintaining the playlists, but, as far as work items and deliverables go, we need to move folks off of ODST and onto What's Next and What's After That and Beyond.

Also, I brought enough for everyone who's not already wearing them. Just pull a pair off the shelf and keep posting!

 

[Kuroyume]

To be fair, you shouldn't count stuff like Foundry in Halo 3's map count. That's just a room with a bunch of boxes.

 

[Slightly Live]

So I guess that's that, then.

Truth be told, maps for Halo 3 take a long time to make, playtest and the man hours that artists spend finishing them are tremendous. The remaining six maps, three of which will be a part of ODST this fall, are an end cap for the downloadable support we're putting behind Halo 3 - Shishka will still be maintaining the playlists, but, as far as work items and deliverables go, we need to move folks off of ODST and onto What's Next and What's After That and Beyond.

Also, I brought enough for everyone who's not already wearing them. Just pull a pair off the shelf and keep posting!
>Rosie tinted specs pic<

Thanks for the clarification regarding Bungie's post release support. We all figured it was the case, but it's nice to be reminded officially.

One question though, is it possible for Microsoft to farm out extra map creating duties? I'm not asking if they will or not, just if it is possible. The likelyhood of such a move can remain open.

Also, the work put into the maps released is unquestioned. They speak for themselves.

I wouldn't mind a pair of those fashionable specs, but I think I needed to have played a certain older title online to appreciate the value.

 

[urk]

To be fair, you shouldn't count stuff like Foundry in Halo 3's map count. That's just a room with a bunch of boxes.

Your face is just a room with a bunch of boxes!

 

[FourDoor]

So bittersweet it is...

Mythic Map Pack Part 2 will be the end of an era but will also be the next step in to the new hawtness. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

One question though, is it possible for Microsoft to farm out extra map creating duties? I'm not asking if they will or not, just if it is possible. The likelyhood of such a move can remain open.

Certain Affinity made maps for Halo 2.

 

[backflip10019]

What I think we need out of map/playlist support is more user integrated features. For instance, this past weekend during HaloGAF customs night (or whatever Dani wanted to call it...), we played on some incredible homemade maps, one of which was a huge three-level map made in the airspace above Blackout. Maybe it's just the fact that I went something like +15 on that map, but it was a fuckton of fun, more fun than I've ever had on quite a few default maps.

I know that we have Smashed and Anvil (and to a lesser extent Onslaught and Amplified, but I suspect that those were MLG's doing) added to playlists but what about more user-generated content? Why not group a bunch of these awesome maps in an experimental weekend hopper and see what comes of it? So many people have put tons of work into creating fun and balanced maps -- why not give them a shot? I thought this was the whole idea behind Foundry... to allow the user to create maps that could eventually be used more generally in matchmaking.

Edit: And Dani's version of Standoff ... loads better and more fair than the original. Why not give it a shot?

 

[Slightly Live]

Certain Affinity made maps for Halo 2.

Why thank you!

during HaloGAF customs night (or whatever Dani wanted to call it...)

Thats a good a name as any. Just stick in "regularly, every saturday, all welcome". =)

we played on some incredible homemade maps, one of which was a huge three-level map made in the airspace above Blackout. Maybe it's just the fact that I went something like +15 on that map, but it was a fuckton of fun, more fun than I've ever had on quite a few default maps.

Yeah, I remember picking it up and thinking it will either bomb or be good. I think it was very enjoyable.

Edit: And Dani's version of Standoff ... loads better and more fair than the original. Why not give it a shot?

You've made a grown dude blush. I'm redder than Luke's glasses. I still think it needs abit more work, but man, thanks for the compliment.

 

[urk]

I know that we have Smashed and Anvil (and to a lesser extent Onslaught and Amplified, but I suspect that those were MLG's doing) added to playlists but what about more user-generated content? Why not group a bunch of these awesome maps in an experimental weekend hopper and see what comes of it? So many people have put tons of work into creating fun and balanced maps -- why not give them a shot? I thought this was the whole idea behind Foundry... to allow the user to create maps that could eventually be used more generally in matchmaking.

ATLAS

I don't know where this group leads, but Shishka's slapped it up to see what the community can drum up. It's definitely not designed to utilize Matchmaking proper as the testing grounds, but if you have maps you think would make the grade in Halo 3's matchmaking, that's where you should present them.

 

[Falagard]

Also, I brought enough for everyone who's not already wearing them. Just pull a pair off the shelf and keep posting!

Rose colored glasses my ass. The best maps in Halo 2 were great. The best maps in Halo 3 are only good. Except for Valhalla. There, I said it.

This video makes me sad, while originally it made me excited:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsqzKdaoQjk

Tell me seeing this list doesn't make you sad inside:

Ascension
Backwash
Beaver Creek
Burial Mounds
Coagulation
Colossus
Containment
Desolation
Elongation
Foundation
Gemini
Headlong
Ivory Tower
Lockout *
Midship **
Relic ***
Sanctuary
Terminal
Tombstone
Turf
Warlock
Waterworks
Zanzibar *

* Remakes in Halo 3
** Coming in Mythic / ODST
*** Might be Longshore in ODST?

Personal favorites bolded. Yes, even Burial Mounds and Warlock.

I'll bet that a Retro map pack which contained 5 of the best Halo 2 maps would sell better than any of your new map packs.

 

[Shishka]

I know that we have Smashed and Anvil (and to a lesser extent Onslaught and Amplified, but I suspect that those were MLG's doing) added to playlists but what about more user-generated content? Why not group a bunch of these awesome maps in an experimental weekend hopper and see what comes of it? So many people have put tons of work into creating fun and balanced maps -- why not give them a shot? I thought this was the whole idea behind Foundry... to allow the user to create maps that could eventually be used more generally in matchmaking.

A lot of people only think their map is "balanced" because they think they know what balanced means, but don't. A lot of people don't realize that the time they spent making sure two boxes overlap at just the right percentage could have been better spent putting more than three spawn points on the entire map. A lot of people don't realize that not every map made is as good for Matchmaking as they find it to be in custom games. A lot of people don't realize that when people make maps they also make specific gametypes to be played on those maps and that a matchmaking playlist created of a bunch of random maps would also likely have to be filled with disparate versions of specific gametypes in order for the maps to function properly, which would lead to confusion for the people playing. A lot of people don't realize that glitching the budget to add more objects than Forge would immediately allow can result in performance issues that can be exacerbated when matched with random people. A lot of people playtest their maps by walking around and making sure the geometry overlapping is to their spec rather than making sure that the map is actually fun to play more than a few times.

A lot of people think throwing a bunch of fan-made maps into a hopper would be some easy win. They are, to put it bluntly, wrong. There is a reason Atlas exists, and that is because the idea of "a bunch of these awesome maps in an experimental weekend hopper" would be a disaster.

 

[xDEILGYREx]

4Edit: And Dani's version of Standoff ... loads better and more fair than the original. Why not give it a shot?

Fileshared?

 

[backflip10019]

ATLAS

I don't know where this group leads, but Shishka's slapped it up to see what the community can drum up. It's definitely not designed to utilize Matchmaking proper as the testing grounds, but if you have maps you think would make the grade in Halo 3's matchmaking, that's where you should present them.

Strange, I get an "Access Denied" message when I try to queue up the page. I'm signed in and everything, but it's just not working.

"Bless this Mess!"

 

[urk]

Strange, I get an "Access Denied" message when I try to queue up the page. I'm signed in and everything, but it's just not working.

"Bless this Mess!"

Oops. I think I linked you to the forum. Try the homepage.

ATLAS

 

[Tashi]

Yup, don't understand why the H2 maps didn't get a facelift and included in H3.

I'm afraid it's more than just a "facelift" If it were that easy, don't you think we'd see a ton of maps from H2 and H1?

Map Loaded...check
Hi-res button ready...check
Xbox Live Marketplace ready...check

Initiate Facelift!!!!

"Hey look! Backwash!!!! YES!!!"

No but seriously...seriously...

 

[Slightly Live]

A lot of people only think their map is "balanced" because they think they know what balanced means, but don't. A lot of people don't realize that the time they spent making sure two boxes overlap at just the right percentage could have been better spent putting more than three spawn points on the entire map. A lot of people don't realize that not every map made is as good for Matchmaking as they find it to be in custom games. A lot of people don't realize that when people make maps they also make specific gametypes to be played on those maps and that a matchmaking playlist created of a bunch of random maps would also likely have to be filled with disparate versions of specific gametypes in order for the maps to function properly, which would lead to confusion for the people playing. A lot of people don't realize that glitching the budget to add more objects than Forge would immediately allow can result in performance issues that can be exacerbated when matched with random people. A lot of people playtest their maps by walking around and making sure the geometry overlapping is to their spec rather than making sure that the map is actually fun to play more than a few times.

A lot of people think throwing a bunch of fan-made maps into a hopper would be some easy win. They are, to put it bluntly, wrong. There is a reason Atlas exists, and that is because the idea of "a bunch of these awesome maps in an experimental weekend hopper" would be a disaster.

I think I second guessed what you just said. I am now interested in seeing what humble possibilities I can put out there. I agree with what you said about maps and matchmaking, I'd like to see if I can challenge myself to make a fun variant that would meet with your criteria.

I can't get seem to get into ATLAS however, I get an "Access Denied" message.

Edit, Link working. =)

 

[Slightly Live]

Fileshared?

http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=64094298

I made a challenege her to fellow gaffers to see if they could make map variants that would be fair and balanced but also meet the criteria to fit into matchmaking. I'm very happy that the feedback on this has been positive. I think it still needs a few more tweaks, but feel free to see for yourself. If you check earlier in the thread I noted the main changes.

Also on that note, EasyB has been the only one here to meet the challenge and make a map so far. I'd welcome any more.

 

[backflip10019]

A lot of people only think their map is "balanced" because they think they know what balanced means, but don't. A lot of people don't realize that the time they spent making sure two boxes overlap at just the right percentage could have been better spent putting more than three spawn points on the entire map. A lot of people don't realize that not every map made is as good for Matchmaking as they find it to be in custom games. A lot of people don't realize that when people make maps they also make specific gametypes to be played on those maps and that a matchmaking playlist created of a bunch of random maps would also likely have to be filled with disparate versions of specific gametypes in order for the maps to function properly, which would lead to confusion for the people playing. A lot of people don't realize that glitching the budget to add more objects than Forge would immediately allow can result in performance issues that can be exacerbated when matched with random people. A lot of people playtest their maps by walking around and making sure the geometry overlapping is to their spec rather than making sure that the map is actually fun to play more than a few times.

A lot of people think throwing a bunch of fan-made maps into a hopper would be some easy win. They are, to put it bluntly, wrong. There is a reason Atlas exists, and that is because the idea of "a bunch of these awesome maps in an experimental weekend hopper" would be a disaster.

It's awesome how you're so open-minded about this whole thing. I'm just asking for more consideration towards user-generated maps for a little variety in matchmaking. I find it completely disheartening and pathetic that the default Foundry map is used in matchmaking more than any of its variants, most of which are better balanced and more fun in my opinion. I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, but wouldn't a few more user-generated maps make Halo more engaging?

 

[Tashi]

Midship **

** Coming in Mythic / ODST

this is real? I keep hearing this but I don't remember an actual Bungie confirmation.

 

[Slightly Live]

It's awesome how you're so open-minded about this whole thing. I'm just asking for more consideration towards user-generated maps for a little variety in matchmaking. I find it completely disheartening and pathetic that the default Foundry map is used in matchmaking more than any of its variants, most of which are better balanced and more fun in my opinion. I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, but wouldn't a few more user-generated maps make Halo more engaging?

I think he's just trying to say, not that there aren't good maps out there, that most of them don't fit the correct criteria to be suitable for matchmaking. It's not to say they aren't fun for customs or anything. It's understandable that they would have high standards for suitable maps, but I'm surprised that very few have come out so far.

Wow, ATLAS has a lot of information to pour over in regards to what is needed to make a suitable map.

*NOM NOM NOM*

 

[Dirtbag]

It's awesome how you're so open-minded about this whole thing. I'm just asking for more consideration towards user-generated maps for a little variety in matchmaking. I find it completely disheartening and pathetic that the default Foundry map is used in matchmaking more than any of its variants, most of which are better balanced and more fun in my opinion. I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, but wouldn't a few more user-generated maps make Halo more engaging?

:lol :lol :lol

Seriously guys, get over yourselves.

 

[backflip10019]

:lol :lol :lol

Seriously guys, get over yourselves.

:eyeroll: Bah, it's just a suggestion.

 

[Falagard]

this is real? I keep hearing this but I don't remember an actual Bungie confirmation.

No confirmation, just rumors, but it's largely accepted to be a remake of Midship.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Heretic_(Level)

 

[Blueblur1]

Rose colored glasses my ass. The best maps in Halo 2 were great. The best maps in Halo 3 are only good. Except for Valhalla. There, I said it.

This is something we can agree on.

 

[EazyB]

A lot of people think throwing a bunch of fan-made maps into a hopper would be some easy win. They are, to put it bluntly, wrong. There is a reason Atlas exists, and that is because the idea of "a bunch of these awesome maps in an experimental weekend hopper" would be a disaster.

I eagerly await the results of this group's work and hope that Smashed was not one of them. Sorting through the mess that is the general community submissions is impossible so I think it was a great move to create a smaller, semi-exclusive community to explore variants.

As for the custom-gametypes leading to confusion; I'm not sure I really buy it. I suppose if you're talking about custom objectives or crazy scoring systems (e.g. headshots only) than I'll agree but I find it odd that there aren't more subtle tweaks to each map to give it more variety. I like the idea of Heavies (though I think it was too big of a departure from the default and because of that had to be tested more than it was) but why not switch up the weapon spawns and vehicles once and a while? Why not spawn with a carbine to mix things up? These sorts of tweaks aren't don't deviate far from the norm thus they won't break the game like Heavies or make things unfun like Covies; just spicing this up a bit.

 

[xDEILGYREx]

I'm afraid it's more than just a "facelift"
If it were that easy, don't you think we'd see a ton of maps from H2 and H1?

No but seriously...seriously...

Honestly I don't know. Maybe someone thinks that if the Halo3 users/consumers were flooded with lots of maps, there'd be less of a market for new premium maps. If you've got 35 maps, why pay $10 for 3 maps, right?

Ok seriously: How long would it take to take "Relic" for example, and make it so on Halo3?

Does all the geometry need redoing? Do all the textures have to be made from scratch?
Are the best artists and map makers needed to do this, or can interns and outsourcing do it acceptably?
I was under the assumption (yea yea - ASSuME) that Halo2's engine was built in mind for Halo3?

Halo3's maps are spectacular. Thank you for them, seriously.
But Halo2's maps weren't slouches either.

Is there not enough potential profit from bringing forth H2 maps?
Or is there just not any desire from the players?

 

[Captain Blood]

It's awesome how you're so open-minded about this whole thing. I'm just asking for more consideration towards user-generated maps for a little variety in matchmaking. I find it completely disheartening and pathetic that the default Foundry map is used in matchmaking more than any of its variants, most of which are better balanced and more fun in my opinion. I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, but wouldn't a few more user-generated maps make Halo more engaging?

I think smashed is a good example of how default foundry isn't the worst possibility.

Honestly I don't know. Maybe someone thinks that if the Halo3 users/consumers were flooded with lots of maps, there'd be less of a market for new premium maps. If you've got 35 maps, why pay $10 for 3 maps, right?

Ok seriously: How long would it take to take "Relic" for example, and make it so on Halo3?

Does all the geometry need redoing? Do all the textures have to be made from scratch?
Are the best artists and map makers needed to do this, or can interns and outsourcing do it acceptably?
I was under the assumption (yea yea - ASSuME) that Halo2's engine was built in mind for Halo3?

Halo3's maps are spectacular. Thank you for them, seriously.
But Halo2's maps weren't slouches either.

Is there not enough potential profit from bringing forth H2 maps?
Or is there just not any desire from the players?

Bungle has said that all the maps they make, remake or not are done completely from the ground up.

 

[backflip10019]

I think smashed is a good example of how default foundry isn't the worst possibility.

:lol Very true. Smashed is an awful map for both Slayer and CTF. It's one of those maps that probably looked good on paper but just executes terribly.