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|OT| The Last of Us Pt II |OT| Oh Ellie...I think they should be terrified of you

ThePhantomKnight

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I was talking more about realistic games, a lot of games have exagerated ragdoll and head exploding like that.

In tlou2 they feel visceral while still being realistic, max payne 3 and rdr2 have similar style but tlou2 take the cake imo.
No I’ve never seen such realistic and gruesome headshots , the chunks of brain Matter that go over the wall and/or floor is just too much. The programmers that did all that are sadistic fucks. That in combination with fucking Entrance and exit wounds.
Trauma doctors could probably use it as a simulation as what happens when the human body is violently ripped apart.
 
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thelastword

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Striking with Abby doesn't damage the clickers unless you have a melee weapon.
I think striking with Ellie does tho.
It's because after the clickers are stunned, Ellie can use her knife to kill them with the melee button....Abby doesn't have a knife, so she needs a melee weapon...
 
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Jbomb19

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don't mean to sound rude but there is so much wrong here it all this reads like you've been playing the game completely drunk/high, browsing facebook during cutscenes or just not paying enough attention
Agreed. some people confuse “plot holes” for “story beats I didn’t like/understand.” A plot hole would be like “Dina gets her hand chopped off in one scene but in the next scene the hand is still there” or something similar. We can all argue until we’re blue in the face over whether
Joel and Tommy going to the chalet was
“out of character,” (I don’t think it was, at all) but that is not a plot hole.
 

GymWolf

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No I’ve never seen such realistic and gruesome headshots , the chunks of brain Matter that go over the wall and/or floor is just too much. The programmers that did all that are sadistic fucks. That in combination with fucking Entrance and exit wounds.
Trauma doctors could probably use it as a simulation as what happens when the human body is violently ripped apart.
 
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TheMay30thMan

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As good a thread as any: Finally got around to TLOU1 Left Behind dlc. That was pretty good. Malls inherently make for a captivating videogame setting, especially one where stealth is involved. Waist-high cover, shelves, and shit actually have a reason to be there. If I had to rank some expansions I've played:

(top)
- Old Hunters (Bloodborne)
- Episode 2 (Half Life 2)
- System Rift (Deus Ex: MD)
- Lair of the Shadow Broker (Mass Effect 2)
- Artorias (Dark Souls)
- Duke 3D Atomic Edition
- Left Behind
- Citadel (Mass Effect 3)
- Minerva's Den (Bioshock 2)
- Missing Link (Deus Ex: HR)



Sarah...

imreadytobehurtagain.jpg

Edit: I’m grateful that I played this game before having two daughters. If this were the first time, I would have been in shambles.
 
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BluRayHiDef

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Does anyone see The Last of Us becoming like Resident Evil in regard to the use of multiple playable protagonists? Not all Resident Evil games have had the same playable protagonists; some entries have featured Chris Redfield as the playable character, others have featured Jill Valentine, and yet others have featured Albert Wesker, etc.

Considering that you play as both Joel and Ellie in the original The Last of Us (albeit that you play as Ellie for only two sections of the game) and that you play as both Ellie and Abby in the sequel, I think that it would be natural for the series to continue but not necessarily from Ellie's perspective, since her story is pretty much over.

The name of the seeies is clearly a reference to more than one person (i.e. all of the remnants of humanity) and therefore is consistent with the idea of a series of games that tells the stories of multiple people who comprise the remnants of humanity.

So, perhaps the next game will feature only Abby and Lev as the playable characters and will feature Ellie as a supporting character or in a cameo. What do you guys think?
 

Collin

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Agreed. some people confuse “plot holes” for “story beats I didn’t like/understand.” A plot hole would be like “Dina gets her hand chopped off in one scene but in the next scene the hand is still there” or something similar. We can all argue until we’re blue in the face over whether
Joel and Tommy going to the chalet was
“out of character,” (I don’t think it was, at all) but that is not a plot hole.
THANK YOU.

everyone misusing the term plot hole in your criticisms, for the love of god, read the above and then read it again. plot holes are not minor discrepancies with your interpretation of how a character acted in an event, okay????!!!
 

BluRayHiDef

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I finished the game an hour ago; my campaign spanned 37 hours. I played on Survivor difficulty from the beginning of the game to...

...the part at which you (as Abby) fend off waves of the Infected inside a decrepit dwelling while Lev and Yara try to open the exit for you from outside. I became frustrated and lowered the difficulty to Normal, which made the game much more enjoyable.

Upon completing the game, I had 502 points, which I used to unlock all of the viewable models for Ellie, Joel, Tommy, Dina, Jesse, JJ, Abby, Lev, Yara, Manny, Mel, Nora, the fat Ratler man, the Rat King, and Clickers. Overall, I must have unlocked a little over 30 viewable models.
 

decisions

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You ask too many questions 😂
I see what you feel..................... I don't agree, but I see. I think all these questions, like 'why would someone do this, why would anyone do that'...... you could god honestly say that about every single bloody piece of media. Even with the first game, why didn't they let Ellie wake up before operating on her to give her a choice? A normal person would have done that. Why did Ellie and Joel jump on that unstable bus just before reaching the hospital? They knew it was dangerous and Ellie couldn't swim! Questions questions questions. It's easy. We'd have no plot or game if every minute detail was questioned. I think the game does a good enough job in giving enough clues and hints to why things are. And if it doesn't then what can you do? It's like that with everything if you really want to look in to it and question every possibility.
No it's not. I'm not asking about things that are tangentially related to the plot except in my final point. The Fireflies not waking up Ellie is not something that requires justification, it's something that tells us about the Fireflies. We have no prior understanding of them as an organization that gives us a frame of reference to compare that choice against. The Fireflies prioritize the cure over the life of one girl - we had no reason to think they wouldn't beforehand, since all we knew about them is that they want to find a cure. Your second example about the bus I feel is obviously a more random and tangential plot point than the things I mention in my post.

I appreciate you writing all that out and I'm sorry to see you interpret those things that way.

One thing I specially want to say
is that there were absolutely not 20-30 people with Abby, only like 6. They were her close friends just like Ellie has.

You've seemed to have missed a lot that is in the journals and notes you find in the world.
Rewatched the cutscene and counted at least 8. Still, why would 8 people go? Certainly Isaac wouldn't have let them after we learn about the way he is. They should've added the plot point that everyone else went because the WLF wanted to take over Jackson. But of course doing this would mean that none of the other characters would really want to just kill this random guy.

Another big plot hole around Joel's death is that neither Abby or the WLF knows what Joel looks like. So they just kill Joel because his name is Joel, which is extremely stupid. Joel, being as streetsmart and skeptical of people as we saw him to be in the first game, just had to say "that's not my name" after Abby says "Joel Miller" to his face and he would've likely survived. An obvious solution to this is that that they should've interrogated Joel first, though of course if Joel sensed hostility he would've known to lie, and may have survived this way too.

However I do agree that at the end of the day plot holes are subjective. Some things will have enough justification for some people but not for me. Some things will qualify as something that requires an explanation for me but not for others. But I just gave my opinion on the story in this game.
 
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bargeparty

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No it's not. I'm not asking about things that are tangentially related to the plot except in my final point. The Fireflies not waking up Ellie is not something that requires justification, it's something that tells us about the Fireflies. We have no prior understanding of them as an organization that gives us a frame of reference to compare that choice against. The Fireflies prioritize the cure over the life of one girl - we had no reason to think they wouldn't beforehand, since all we knew about them is that they want to find a cure. Your second example about the bus I feel is obviously a more random and tangential plot point than the things I mention in my post.



Rewatched the cutscene and counted at least 8. Still, why would 8 people go? Certainly Isaac wouldn't have let them after we learn about the way he is. They should've added the plot point that everyone else went because the WLF wanted to take over Jackson. But of course doing this would mean that none of the other characters would really want to just kill this random guy.

Another big plot hole around Joel's death is that neither Abby or the WLF knows what Joel looks like. So they just kill Joel because his name is Joel, which is extremely stupid. Joel, being as streetsmart and skeptical of people as we saw him to be in the first game, just had to say "that's not my name" after Abby says "Joel Miller" to his face and he would've likely survived. An obvious solution to this is that that they should've interrogated Joel first, though of course if Joel sensed hostility he would've known to lie, and may have survived this way too.

However I do agree that at the end of the day plot holes are subjective. Some things will have enough justification for some people but not for me. Some things will qualify as something that requires an explanation for me but not for others. But I just gave my opinion on the story in this game.
I don't know why I'm bothering answering you.

It gets established later that Issac gives Abby a bit of a long leash considering how good of a fighter she is. It's definitely possible he would allow her to go with a small team of her friends.

How many people do you think Ellie could realistically draw to her cause if Jackson had more soldiers to spare? I'm betting quite a few. I think it's even briefly mentioned.

Let's try to imagine what would've happened if there was no horde and a group of different scouts. Do you think Abby would've gone "easy" on them to get the information?

The way things unfold just gets to the point quicker, and the point is Joel's death. Take a few literary jumps and go with what's presented to see the end result.

Again. Not plot holes.
 

Kagero

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I actually enjoyed that other character's part more. I'm sure you will too! 😊
i agree. Was way more invested in abbys story, especially towards the end. Seeing her character progression made the second half fly by for me. Did not want to see the game end, even though I admit that i can see how people would think it overstayed it’s welcome. What a gem of a game. Top 3 of all time.
 
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Valentino

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No it's not. I'm not asking about things that are tangentially related to the plot except in my final point. The Fireflies not waking up Ellie is not something that requires justification, it's something that tells us about the Fireflies. We have no prior understanding of them as an organization that gives us a frame of reference to compare that choice against. The Fireflies prioritize the cure over the life of one girl - we had no reason to think they wouldn't beforehand, since all we knew about them is that they want to find a cure. Your second example about the bus I feel is obviously a more random and tangential plot point than the things I mention in my post.
Gagh! My questions were rhetorical. I wasn't after any logical or even needed answers. I was showing what a stretch those questions are :messenger_grinning_sweat:
I was just putting out there how easy it is to question every single motive and decision in any medium. 'I wouldn't do that so why did that game character do that?'. Some of you can ask why Joel would reveal his name so easily because he's been in the game for so long and knows it's "apparently" dangerous to reveal his name to outsider? But why? It never alludes that he's in hiding or on the lookout for potential fireflies coming after hime. Especially after so many year. Especially when they've just saved Abby and are all stuck in a house with hordes outside. It's like how some of you think you know this fictional made up by characters thoughts and decisions. I think some of you know the game tries to take itself seriously so in that case you make sure everything has the upmost clear and an understanding reason to why this is and why that is.
I understand your quarms, but everything could be one big question at the end of the day.
Here's my answer: The game needs characters involved and they are also Abbys friends. (some of them anyway)
 

decisions

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I don't know why I'm bothering answering you.

It gets established later that Issac gives Abby a bit of a long leash considering how good of a fighter she is. It's definitely possible he would allow her to go with a small team of her friends.

How many people do you think Ellie could realistically draw to her cause if Jackson had more soldiers to spare? I'm betting quite a few. I think it's even briefly mentioned.

Let's try to imagine what would've happened if there was no horde and a group of different scouts. Do you think Abby would've gone "easy" on them to get the information?

The way things unfold just gets to the point quicker, and the point is Joel's death. Take a few literary jumps and go with what's presented to see the end result.

Again. Not plot holes.
In your last post you said "I appreciate you writing all that out and I'm sorry to see you interpret those things that way." Your tone changes as capriciously as a TLOUII character!

"It gets established later that Issac gives Abby a bit of a long leash considering how good of a fighter she is. It's definitely possible he would allow her to go with a small team of her friends."

Nah, it gets established later that Isaac is a ruthless leader with a "mission-first" attitude, evidenced by the fact that he literally tries to kill Abby out of tribalism. A solution is that it should've been framed that they were supposed to be scoping out Jackson for potential takeover to extract its resources or develop a partnership with them, but the way it's framed currently, I just don't buy it.

"How many people do you think Ellie could realistically draw to her cause if Jackson had more soldiers to spare? I'm betting quite a few. I think it's even briefly mentioned."

I'm not sure which of my points this is addressing, so I'm not going to answer it.

"Let's try to imagine what would've happened if there was no horde and a group of different scouts. Do you think Abby would've gone "easy" on them to get the information?"

We already know Abby spared Tommy and Ellie, who could be viewed as top candidates to kill after Joel. So we know she was selective about only killing Joel Miller, and surely wouldn't have killed some random Joel from Jackson without knowing it was him. Of course it is impossible to discuss this without also seeing the contradiction in Abby being selective in killing Joel, but killing Joel, whom she didn't really know was Joel Miller.

"The way things unfold just gets to the point quicker, and the point is Joel's death. Take a few literary jumps and go with what's presented to see the end result."

This sounds like you are making excuses for writers that didn't know how to handle a major plot point. The clumsy nature of how it was handled creates structural issues for the entire plot. If you want to void everything up to Joel's death, then I still brought up tons of issues I have with what happens after it.
 
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bargeparty

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In your last post you said "I appreciate you writing all that out and I'm sorry to see you interpret those things that way." Your tone changes as capriciously as a TLOUII character!
Whooboy.


"It gets established later that Issac gives Abby a bit of a long leash considering how good of a fighter she is. It's definitely possible he would allow her to go with a small team of her friends."

Nah, it gets established later that Isaac is a ruthless leader with a "mission-first" attitude, evidenced by the fact that he literally tries to kill Abby out of tribalism. A solution is that it should've been framed that they were supposed to be scoping out Jackson for potential takeover to extract its resources or develop a partnership with them, but the way it's framed currently, I just don't buy it.
No. At that point he believes she betrayed them. I don't even know how you could misunderstand the difference.

Let's take a quick jaunt 1000 miles, lol.

"How many people do you think Ellie could realistically draw to her cause if Jackson had more soldiers to spare? I'm betting quite a few. I think it's even briefly mentioned."

I'm not sure which of my points this is addressing, so I'm not going to answer it.
Could've left it out, but it was addressing this weird belief that Abby couldn't get a group of 6-8 people to go with her.

"Let's try to imagine what would've happened if there was no horde and a group of different scouts. Do you think Abby would've gone "easy" on them to get the information?"

We already know Abby spared Tommy and Ellie, who could be viewed as top candidates to kill after Joel. So we know she was selective about only killing Joel Miller, and surely wouldn't have killed some random Joel from Jackson without knowing it was him. Of course it is impossible to discuss this without also seeing the contradiction in Abby being selective in killing Joel, but killing Joel, whom she didn't really know was Joel Miller.
They spared them because they weren't the target. You didn't address my point at all. And it caused an argument within the group.

"The way things unfold just gets to the point quicker, and the point is Joel's death. Take a few literary jumps and go with what's presented to see the end result."

This sounds like you are making excuses for writers that didn't know how to handle a major plot point. The clumsy nature of how it was handled creates structural issues for the entire plot. If you want to void everything up to Joel's death, then I still brought up tons of issues I have with what happens after it.
Feel free to type out your perfect scenario for getting to this early in the game.
 

slade

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Finished the game earlier today. As someone who thought the first game was merely ok and not some ode to God, this game was a bit better. In other words, I rated TLoU a 7, this game is an 8. I had no emotional investments to any character and the story played out pretty much as I thought it would. If anything, I would have wanted a few other characters to die but it would have hurt the narrative.

Anyway, hate it or not, the game delivers a master class in manipulation. And it all stemmed from how attached to Ellie and Joel you were in the first game. Makes the early speculations of whether Abby was Ellie's mom sound ridiculous now.

Naughty Dog could have gone down the narrative safe path and given us more Joel/Ellie adventures. That they did not is to be commended.
 

Keihart

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Now that i have finished this game, thinking back on it, those bigot sandwiches were stronger than i though, i saw them as just character building of Ellie but they were also foreshadowing. It was all about the bigot sandwiches, godammit!

The last night with Joel becomes the trauma that Ellie can't let behind, she wasn't able to fully forgive Joel just as she wasn't able to forgive Seth that morning with the sandwiches and at the end all comes back to that night, she finally realizes that somehow, Joel was alright with her just trying to forgive him and she finally let go of it, revenge was not bad in this story, it was more importantly futile, there was no point in searching revenge. Ellie and Abby just needed to, no matter what, keep finding something to fight for, it just took them too long to realize.

I'm kinda exited for a sequel if Ellie it's the main character, she it's shown in the last frame walking to the woods, like in her notebook song, wondering if she has anything to give anymore...it would be very cool to see Ellie finding proper meaning like Joel did at the end of the first game
Also, this game made more interested in the world, the first game didn't showed much tidbits of the world, but now seeing all this diferent factions made me very intereset, i thought that the Sky Bridge of the Seraphites was specially cool, maybe there is sewer people or some weird shit like that
 
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BluRayHiDef

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I beat the game yesterday.

Ellie spares Abby in their final fight but seriously messes her up. She slices Abby's face open, cuts her arms numerous times, and stabs her in the chest. Also, I noticed that Abby is missing some of her upper teeth, though I can't recall if that's due to Ellie or the Ratlers. Anyhow, seeing Abby so messed up made me feel sorry for her, because I came to empathize with her even though she killed Joel. Now, both she and Ellie are maimed (i.e. Abby bites off two of Ellie’s fingers). Damn.
 

Keihart

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Holy fucking shit, i just realized...next game setup IF there is ever one.
Since Abby it's alive and knows where the Fireflys are, they might decide to comback for Ellie if she somehow ends up telling them about it. Can you imagine a third game playing as Ellie while being chased by the Fireflies? no idea which fucked up shit they can throw our way now, but that seems like a cool setup at least I mean, she has finally decided to live and probably would not want to give her life again if somehow the Fireflies have a doctor that can develop a cure.
 
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Aug 26, 2018
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Holy fucking shit, i just realized...next game setup IF there is ever one.
Since Abby it's alive and knows where the Fireflys are, they might decide to comback for Ellie if she somehow ends up telling them about it. Can you imagine a third game playing as Ellie while being chased by the Fireflies? no idea which fucked up shit they can throw our way now, but that seems like a cool setup at least I mean, she has finally decided to live and probably would not want to give her life again if somehow the Fireflies have a doctor that can develop a cure.
Niel said there prob wont be a sequel and honestly its done. They wont chase each other forever, they found their peace. Part 2 made every sense, Part 3 can be nothing more than a cash cow with pointless chasing after the other team.
 
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I beat the game yesterday.

Ellie spares Abby in their final fight but seriously messes her up. She slices Abby's face open, cuts her arms numerous times, and stabs her in the chest. Also, I noticed that Abby is missing some of her upper teeth, though I can't recall if that's due to Ellie or the Ratlers. Anyhow, seeing Abby so messed up made me feel sorry for her, because I came to empathize with her even though she killed Joel. Now, both she and Ellie are maimed (i.e. Abby bites off two of Ellie’s fingers). Damn.
I was totally fine with her sparring Abby. She got screwed over hardcore for 4 months in that camp. Who knows what they did to her. Ellie still banged her up but i feel her being tortured by Rattlers was a "justice is served" for me. I really hope i can read up more about Rattlers because honestly they seemed worse then Scars since they took sick pleasure. Scars were just religious lunatics.
 
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BluRayHiDef

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I was totally fine with her sparring Abby. She got screwed over hardcore for 4 months in that camp. Who knows what they did to her. Ellie still banged her up but i feel her being tortured by Rattlers was a "justice is served" for me. I really hope i can read up more about Rattlers because honestly they seemed worse then Scars since they took sick pleasure. Scars were just religious lunatics.
I guess I wasn't paying attention well enough, but what was the agenda of the Rattlers? They captured and tortured people just for the hell of it?
 
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I guess I wasn't paying attention well enough, but what was the agenda of the Rattlers? They captured and tortured people just for the hell of it?
Well thats the thing, there isnt much back story available on them. Scars did it due to religious reasons. Rattlers have prisons, get people infected and then chain them up to watch them turn, that one guy commited suicide because supposedly it was so bad whatever they were doing to them. I think they were just sick fucks, especially if you gonna raise pillars so that the crows eat you over time.
 
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BluRayHiDef

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Well thats the thing, there isnt much back story available on them. Scars did it due to religious reasons. Rattlers have prisons, get people infected and then chain them up to watch them turn, that one guy commited suicide because supposedly it was so bad whatever they were doing to them. I think they were just sick fucks, especially if you gonna raise pillars so that the crows eat you over time.
I hope that there's a second sequel (Part III). I'm assuming that it would feature Abby and Lev as the main characters. If so, perhaps Abby would return to Santa Barbara to take out the Rattlers; then again, I guess they're all taken out by the prisoners that Ellie releases. In regard to Abby, I wonder if she would have bulked back up by the beginning of a second sequel / bulk up during a second sequel or if she'd remain the size that she is at the end of Part II. Either way, she's going to look rough due to missing teeth and having scars all over her arms. Damn, I feel so bad for her.
 

Keihart

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Niel said there prob wont be a sequel and honestly its done. They wont chase each other forever, they found their peace. Part 2 made every sense, Part 3 can be nothing more than a cash cow with pointless chasing after the other team.
Yeah, i didn't meant Abby but the Fireflies since they still seem to be around.
I just want to see Ellie as a grown up now, after all these violence theme and revenge plot i think it manages to also be a coming of age story for Ellie. Talking in weeb terms, Jiraija it's dead and we ended the Pain arc. Now it's time for Ellie to become hokage? :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: if only she had a dream...
 
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evanft

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So I'm decently far into Abby's part. I'm just past the sniper fight with Tommy.

I have a couple issues with Abby's section of the game.
  1. There seems to be WAY more emphasis on combat/rooty tooty point and shooty. I much preferred the more balanced approach in Ellie's portion. Then again it's good to change things up and give the characters a distinctive feel to them, so I can see why they did it.
  2. While Laura Bailey is a great voice actress, she's delivering a typical Laura Bailey performance immediately after Ashley Johnson delivered one of the best performances in video game history, IMO. Bailey just can't get to the level Ashley could, and it does make it harder to get into Abby's story.
 

RPS37

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I’m still really early on, probably played for like 5 hours or so.
Just got past the part where the game opens up and I feel pretty formidable.
I remember it taking a long time to feel like that in the first game.
What I’m trying to say is
Fuck the haters, this game is dope!
 

Psykodad

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Finally finished the game.
I really like it, but I've got some issues with the way they told the story.

So, I'm fine with Joel being killed at the beginning. Great choice and I already expected either him or Dina to die.

I also like Abby and her story. Liked their decision to show her side of the story as well.

My problem is with how they presented the story.
Who ever thought is was a good idea to have you play Abby's side during the entire second half of the game?
That seriously took away a lot of fun of the game, because the first half of her story felt like a boring dragged out chore and didn't really pick up until you have to go up against the sniper (Tommy) and the stories tie into eachother.
They should have started the game with the first half of Abby's story, because the wat they approached the story now takes away any momentum created by Ellie's story.

I liked the ending though. I get why Ellie let Abby live. The way I see it, Ellie realized killing Abby wouldn't bring Joel back and since Ellie understood why Abby killed Joel and she posed no further threat, I'm fine with how the game ends.

Gameplay was just what you'd expect. No complaints, nor surprises.

Solid 8/10. FFVII Remake easily beats it as GOTY.
 

Fbh

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Ok so now that I'm a couple of hours into the Abby part I'm starting to see why some dislike it.

Hopefully things improve but so far this whole Abby part has completely killed the momentum. It's like you spent 15 hours with Ellie improving her, gaining new weapons and skills and slowly moving forward with the plot until this big climactic moment......and then you sort of have to begin from scratch with a new character that I don't feel attached to.
So far both she as a character and her story have been rather uninteresting and seem to be there exclusively to show that they aren't really "evil" and to try and make you feel bad about killing her friends... but I just don't care.
I loved the flashback sequences with Ellie because you get to see her interact with Joel again and it deals with how the ending of the original has affected their relationship. Just reached the third flashback with Abby and it seems like it's going to be another uninteresting scene at the Aquarium that I hope I can rush through.
 
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Ok so now that I'm a couple of hours into the Abby part I'm starting to see why some dislike it.

Hopefully things improve but so far this whole Abby part has completely killed the momentum. It's like you spent 15 hours with Ellie improving her, gaining new weapons and skills and slowly moving forward with the plot until this big climactic moment......and then you sort of have to begin from scratch with a new character that I don't feel attached to.
So far both she as a character and her story have been rather uninteresting and seem to be there exclusively to show that they aren't really "evil" and to try and make you feel bad about killing her friends... but I just don't care.
I loved the flashback sequences with Ellie because you get to see her interact with Joel again and it deals with how the ending of the original has affected their relationship. Just reached the third flashback with Abby and it seems like it's going to be another uninteresting scene at the Aquarium that I hope I can rush through.
basically my thoughts exactly. and unfortunately
this section is fucking LONG. i can only bring myself to play through for an hour or two at a time before getting bored and having to put it down
 
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A.Romero

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I just finished the game last night. I liked it but I felt it was too long.


I'm not sure what's supposed to be a spoiler and what not so I'm tagging everything:


In my opinion it would have been so much better if the game was entirely from Abby's perspective. Having to kill Joel and then doing all her arch. I understand the implications of a switcheroo of that size but I think the game could have been more streamlined. At least play both parts at the same time instead of taking you up to the climax of the story and then going back. They did fucked it up by doing it in this way.

Gameplay was amazing, I really liked it. Specially once you get long range stealth weaponry.

Attention to detail and graphics are great as well. I haven't finished RDR2 yet so this is by far the most detailed game I've played. All environments were great but the bottom floors of the hospital are just amazing. All that section had me on the edge of my seat.

I don't care about Lev. The game could have been exactly the same with another kid in his place. It doesn't make a difference so I'm 100% neutral.

Ellie is the villain in my opinion and Abby the flawed hero. Abby was Joel for the sequel in more ways than one.

I'd give it a solid 8 or maybe even a 9. Truly a wonder of the medium.
 
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Popura

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I'm about twelve hours in and playing in short bursts because finishing each encounter leaves me exhausted as I'm not much of a stealthy player. I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, but I'm enjoying it far more than I thought I would. The lighting, reflections, and effects work are insanely well crafted; I get the feeling Naughty Dog squeezed all the juice they could from the PS4 here. Curious to see if they'll commit to 60 FPS for the eventual multiplayer release, whatever that ends up being, and if so, what kind of visual hit it will entail.
 

luij81

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A few days ago I mentioned a few similarities between The Last of Us 2 and Playdead's Inside in this thread. After playing The Last of Us 2 one more time I was surprised to see that some other elements also reminded me of Inside. I was so intrigued that I felt like editing a video:


The questions is: am I seeing things? I don't think so... What do you guys think?
 

Keihart

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A few days ago I mentioned a few similarities between The Last of Us 2 and Playdead's Inside in this thread. After playing The Last of Us 2 one more time I was surprised to see that some other elements also reminded me of Inside. I was so intrigued that I felt like editing a video:


The questions is: am I seeing things? I don't think so... What do you guys think?
i'll give some credit to your theory because of the ratking :pie_thinking:
 
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bargeparty

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A few days ago I mentioned a few similarities between The Last of Us 2 and Playdead's Inside in this thread. After playing The Last of Us 2 one more time I was surprised to see that some other elements also reminded me of Inside. I was so intrigued that I felt like editing a video:


The questions is: am I seeing things? I don't think so... What do you guys think?
You're creating connections that don't exist, imo.
 

luij81

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You're creating connections that don't exist, imo.
It could be - I understand that. I even say in the video that some elements might just be me seeing things. Just to be clear though: I'm not saying that there is an explicit connection between elements of both games, nor I'm saying this is plagiarism or anything like that. All I'm just saying is that maybe ND took some inspiration from Playdead here and there.
 

bishopcruz

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Agreed. some people confuse “plot holes” for “story beats I didn’t like/understand.” A plot hole would be like “Dina gets her hand chopped off in one scene but in the next scene the hand is still there” or something similar. We can all argue until we’re blue in the face over whether
Joel and Tommy going to the chalet was
“out of character,” (I don’t think it was, at all) but that is not a plot hole.
Yeah, Plot holes are more like the game of thrones teleporters that everyone uses, the magical disappearing reappearing blizzard and storms, Ellie and Dina being one day behind Tommy when they are two people on one horse while he is one person on one horse, how the WLF doesn't notice dozens of scars on horseback seconds outside of their base, how no word of the trespassers made it to Owen when Mel was around to have heard about it, and Ellie and crew making it out of a hostile area and across two states with a man with a fucked knee and a bullet in his head, an incredibly sick pregnant girl, and a concussed main character. All without a horse.. Oh and let's not forget how Joel and Tommy are several hours ahead of the other patrols with hints that they have been out there for longer than a day when we KNOW that he was chilling at his house the night before.

The other stuff is just bad writing, not plot holes. And no everyone understands the story beats, they aren't Shakespeare. They are uneven, poorly passed, and often nonsensical.
 

nowhat

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Having watched/read several of the more negative reviews (out of curiosity, I quite liked it myself), YongYea being the latest, I'm kind of astounded how people are able to completely miss the point of the ending, and call it pointless. It's not like "you have to be a Rick and Morty fan to understand it", it's spelled out really clearly.

If Ellie would decide not to kill Abby just because he remembered Joel in general, yeah, it would be pointless and stupid. But it's not some random memory she has a flashback of, it's the very final cutscene with Joel. Where Ellie tells Joel that she's not sure if she can forgive him, but she's willing to try. She never got the chance to forgive him, but at least she can forgive Abby and get out of this downward spiral she has been in.

I suppose it would be easier to understand, if the cutscene had been shown in the middle of the battle, but that would have broken up the pacing of the scene completely. I'm fine with giving context to the battle later on, the game has many issues with pacing and structure of the story IMHO, but the ending is not among them.
 

luij81

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Having watched/read several of the more negative reviews (out of curiosity, I quite liked it myself), YongYea being the latest, I'm kind of astounded how people are able to completely miss the point of the ending, and call it pointless. It's not like "you have to be a Rick and Morty fan to understand it", it's spelled out really clearly.
I see a lot of people who disliked the game basically because of Joel's death and playing as Abby. IMO, these people - just like Ellie in the game - are sort of "blinded" by anger, which makes them miss (or missinterpret) key elements of the story. As an example, take the scene where Ellie torture Nora. The game gives you so many signs that Ellie is clearly unsettled by that, yet I saw youtubers (who were obviously upset with the game) playing that part and saying that Ellie was ENJOYING the escalating action.

Really frustrating...
 

BluRayHiDef

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@Ulysses 31 I'm replying to you here because the moderators ordered me to move our discussion to a thread that's relevant to our debate.

1. You're right, Owen stops the others but with your reasoning in 2 and 3 she should not have been merciful since they're "part of the group".

2. How is Dina responsible for any of those deaths? We as players know she had no hand in what Ellie did at the aquarium. Just holding the entire group responsible is not something a reasonable person does, unless that was the point of the game to show that Abby is being unreasonable at that time?

3. So with this reasoning, what happened to Own and Mel at the aquarium was justified because they facilitated what happened to Joel. Abby shouldn't be so upset about it.

4. Dina attacked and got subdued, Abby still wanted an execution. Ellie says she's the cure that will not come to fruition anymore, not what she did to Mel's friends. It's not even clear if Abby cares about a cure anymore at that point. If only the writing allowed Abby and Ellie to really talk to each other and clear up a lot of misunderstandings, the story would've been more believable.
1. My use of the word "group" clearly implied a collective intention to commit a specific act, as in several characters from Jackson all traveling together to Seattle to kill Abby and her friends. At the beginning of the game, Tommy, Ellie, and Joel had not collectively committed a specific act (against Abby and her friends) nor had they collectively had the intention to do so at any point prior to encountering Abby and her friends; Joel ALONE committed a specific act (against Abby and associated characters, mainly her father). Hence, Joel ALONE was killed and the others were spared. Abby doesn't kill indiscriminately; she kills people whom she feels have wronged her, whether they have done so directly or by assisting others who have done so directly.

2. Dina is not responsible for anyone's death. However, she traveled to Seattle with Ellie with the intention of helping Ellie find and kill Abby and Abby's friends. Abby knows this via logical deduction: a group of people from Jackson are at a location in Seattle, to which a map at the murder scene of her friends led her; hence, this group of people came to Seattle with the collective intention of killing her friends (and herself). Dina is a part of this group and is therefore partially responsible for the deaths of her friends - either directly or via facilitation. If this is not so, then why is Dina in Seattle and not back in Jackson?

3. What happened to Owen and Mel at the aquarium was unjustified in Abby's opinion because Abby and her friends spared Ellie and Tommy - after killing Joel for a specific reason.

4. Dina attacked and was subdued, but that doesn't change that she was part of the group from Jackson that came to Seattle with the intention of killing Abby and her friends.

I don't want to debate about this anymore, because we are at an impasse. Let's just agree to disagree.
 
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