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[Feel Like I'm On 42]

We have a AAA ray tracing game already in Metro Exodus: Enhanced Edition. And yes, haters, ray tracing done right is a massively meaningful change to the presentation. RTGI in particular is important, as ME:EE shows.

Unreal Engine 5 will be the "make or break" with ray tracing for this generation, as it has a robust software implementation of Lumen that the consoles can run at 60fps (even Series S!), example: Fortnight Chapter 4, or hardware based version at 30fps on consoles, example: Matrix demo. And it looks jaw dropping.

But it's been a bummer that the coolest RTX-ified games on PC are mostly not available on consoles that really should be able to run them, like Minecraft RTX, Quake 1 & 2 RTX, Half-Life RTX, etc.

Well said. Metro Exodus lighting looks incredible and 4A Games deserves all the credit for what they were able to achieve. There are a couple sacrifices they had to make compared to the PC, like removing tesselation on objects which hurts, but in this case it was so worth it.

Speaking of MS. I'm very disappointed in them and their lack of delivering RT games and tech demos is as much an offshoot of their pattern of laziness and false promises than it is the Series X weaknesses in RT! How many next gem rdna2 features did they hype up only to not follow up on with any of them, except VRS, two and a half years later??

To not at least have offered a demo of Minecraft RTX by now despite them owning the ip and all the talk around launch of it already running on Series X is a really bad look. Were they lying or was it just being used for hype?

Sony has done a better job showcasing some RT stuff in Spiderman and Ratchet but they've disappointed somewhat as well. It's frustrating to have to wait and wait to make good on all the pre launch talk.

 

[hyperbertha]

Consoles can barely scrape by on 30 fps non raytraced quality mode.

 

[Captain Toad]

Ray-tracing is a waste of resources.

 

[MikeM]

I have a 7900xt and still hardly use RT. I can’t see RT being console mainstream until PS6 gen.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I am not talking about the Legacy of Thieves collection, I am talking the OG releases with the multiplayer and everything. As far as I can tell (just searched) they are still 30 fps on PS5. Which is ridiculous considering so many other games have gotten patches. Bloodborne and The Last Guardian need it too. Sony should be able to just put BluePoint on it and knock these out in a couple of months, tops.

I'm also still waiting for MS and Sony to patch last gen games. It's one of the biggest disappointments this gem that we still don't have patches for: Bloodborne, Rdr2 (I know it's Rockstar), Ryse Son of Rome, Dead Rising 3, Quantum Break, Gears Ultimate, Last guardian, Sunset Overdrive, Gravity Rush 2, Driveclub, the Order.

No excuse not to have most of these first party games by now.

 

[RoboFu]

There are a lot of RT optional games but 60 fps is a standard option now so RT isn’t a priority.

Though forza 8

 

[Knightime_X]

Realtime rtx is a hot ticket item devs have been excited to use since the 16bit era via pre-rendered graphics.

We're not quite there yet.
Give it a generation or 2, it'll be almost as common as anti aliasing.

 

[Leonidas]

Ray-tracing is a waste of resources.

It's a great use of resources given the proper hardware and software. It's too bad consoles are stuck with RDNA2 which is the worst of the 6 RT architectures on PC.

 

[KloetenQuetsche]

Something like Minecraft should really be doable though. Even Metro Exodus manages ray tracing @ 60 fps.

In addition, a path tracing version of Minecraft was even shown on the Series X at the time.

I don't think so.

It is not doable if you build something with many light sources.

 

[Zug]

The only place where some significant ray tracing can be done at the moment is on a PC with a high end Nvidia card.
Probably too niche to be profitable.

 

[TheRedRiders]

It's almost as if game developers didn't fall for Nvidia's crack marketing on ray-tracing.

 

[KloetenQuetsche]

It is the real simulation of light. That's the only way it goes in the future. But not today on consoles.

 

[Patrick S.]

Just played the first half hour or so of The Witcher 3 on PS5 with the ray tracing update, looked absolutely breathtaking. Been switching back and forth between RTX and Performance mode, and the difference is quite huge. I‘m really looking forward to more games with good RT.

 

[SolidQ]

Ray-tracing is a waste of resources.

 

[diffusionx]

I don't think the majority care for ray tracing.

& The casual audience certainly can't tell the difference between ray tracing and good SSR.

It was literally a buzz word that you would see people throw out on twitter.

The best thing about this generation has been super fast load times & 60fps games, I don't think I could go back, as it's been a blessing.

Where did this idea that SSR is good become accepted? it's not. RT reflections are vastly better than screen space reflections; moreso than any other RT feature, IQ benefits with RT and normies would notice.

 

[64bitmodels]

i like the detail of the UI looking worse on the 2023 version since modern devs can't make game UI look interesting

 

[anthony2690]

Where did this idea that SSR is good become accepted? it's not. RT reflections are vastly better than screen space reflections; moreso than any other RT feature, IQ benefits with RT and normies would notice.

I think you find reading quite difficult.

Try reading my post again.

& The amount of comments I've seen online on twitter with thousands of likes praising "ray tracing" when the picture or video in question is using SSR & not ray tracing.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Remember Minecraft ray tracing hype for Xbox

 

[simpatico]

I think many times the quality isn't effect isn't worth what you have to spend in overhead.

How would a game even maximize this OP? A particle effect heavy shooter taking place in puddle filled alleys adorned in neon lights? Throw in some smoke coming out of the sewers and I think we're almost there. Check out Cyberpunk 2077

 

[damidu]

consoles pretty much suck at it, and games are developed around them
will need to wait for next gen (also assuming amd can deliver the goods) for a real rt revolution

i would also be pissed after paying thousands for a gpu and only to have handful games showing it off though.
i get the notion

 

[FingerBang]

This thread is funny to me on so many levels:

In 2018, with the first rumors of the new consoles, we didn't even think it was possible to have ray tracing on consoles. We thought it was simply not going to happen, then it happened.

RDNA2 is weak ray-tracing wise. It's basically Turing performance, which was crap. But also, the tools were crap. The developers were crap at taking advantage of that. This is more than 4 years later and things are different. Spider-man and R&C prove that ray tracing is absolutely possible on these consoles, even at 60fps. Don't know how people here seem to forget that.

RT is a next-gen only thing, the sad truth is we haven't had many next-gen only games. It's as simple as that.

PS5 and XSX will never be ray tracing powerhouses because of their hardware and not all games will need ray tracing because not all games try to go for a realistic look.

 

[Schmendrick]

Meaningful RT on power limited 2020 AMD SoCs....
Good joke.

Whatever those 500 dollar boxes can do in that field is usually not worth the trade-off.
RT, at least RT worth mentioning, will be a high end pc feature for the foreseeable future.
I'd not bet too much on dumbed down combination systems like Lumen either, albeit there may be a little bit of hope with those.

 

[Kataploom]

Who told you these consoles are remotely powerful enough to do proper RT? As a supporting method for other rasterized techniques they're ok, but full path traced lighting? LOL no.

RT will be a simple gimmick for a gen or two more, it didn't even seem possible before nvidia started hyping, it's like they tried to skip too many steps on the graphical evolution and it's making the whole industry regret following them.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

RDNA lacks in raytracing and there is nothing they can do about it. Nvidia continues to make progress in raytracing.

Apparently they hired Nvidia engineers for rdna4 but AMD is perpetually behind which is why consoles will always be stomped by PC in terms of capabilities.

 

[Kataploom]

Well, the current RT implementation is invented by nvidia really. It was to market 20xx cards.
I know it goes to early 90s but not like that

This is why I think it's unfair to say "AMD sucks at RT", when Nvidia literally skipped several steps on real time computer graphics technology and AMD is basically rushing the natural evolution as much as they can. I think Nvidia harmed the industry with their push on RT, it should have never been accepted in the current standard

 

[SolidQ]

i like the detail of the UI looking worse on the 2023 version since modern devs can't make game UI look interesting

Yeah UI today, looks like too flat. 5 min work in Photoshop for whole UI

 

[Sanepar]

I have a rtx 4080 and tell u, ray tracing is totally crap. Reflexes u can't see in motion and most new games with rt are a stutter show.

It is a waste. The only good implementation is GI but only 1 game use in that way(metro exodus).

 

[Roni]

It honestly seems like we're all over the place with innovation that is ground breaking on paper, but since gaming is so ubiquitous and needs to run on all sorts of different hardware, we're sort of stuck with half measures: VR, ray tracing, SSD, motion controls, etc...

As much as PC is great and all, there's definitely some money on the table for a company willing to put out a box with a fixed high end configuration, bells and whistles included, and just support it with great exclusive software.

 

[Sleepwalker]

RT on consoles suck so I hope they keep ignoring it

 

[Robb]

Still too expensive I guess. Maybe next gen.

 

[Deerock71]

Time to recognize ray-tracing is just window dressing at too high of a CPU cost.

 

[StereoVsn]

If Quake 2, Minecraft, Half Life 2 are struggling to run on new consoles, you can imagine what it will do in newer games.

I mean, they are struggling to run on high end PCs if you crank the options up.

 

[Ozriel]

Microsoft in particular could have brought Minecraft with ray tracing to Series S/X a long time ago. This game would certainly also be technically feasible on the Series S.

I’m starting to think that it was a big lie the demo they showcased, probably on PC.

Nothing about that was a lie. DF saw it running on Series X hardware. You’re just forgetting how it ran on Series X - I believe around 1080p. I suspect the main challenge is getting it to run on Series S.
Even on PC, it’s a demanding workload for RTX20xx GPUs without using DLSS.

Remember Minecraft ray tracing hype for Xbox

Hype? It was only ever a pre-release tech demo.

 

[hlm666]

This is why I think it's unfair to say "AMD sucks at RT", when Nvidia literally skipped several steps on real time computer graphics technology and AMD is basically rushing the natural evolution as much as they can. I think Nvidia harmed the industry with their push on RT, it should have never been accepted in the current standard

Any insights into how intel managed to get better RT performance than AMD on their first try then? AMD tried to cheap out by not wanting dedicated silicon for the RT cores, yes it had some valid reasons but lets not pretend this is nvidia doing nvidia things. DXR 1.1 was also more beneficial for amd tha nv/intel.

“Microsoft DXR 1.1 API… was co-architected and co-developed by AMD and MIcrosoft to take full advantage of the common ray tracing architecture,” says Wang.” This is a great proof point of the benefit of ‘Radeon everywhere’.”

AMD co-developed Microsoft’s DXR 1.1 API to speed up Xbox Series X ray tracing

AMD's "all-new hardware accelerated ray tracing architecture" is going into PC and console GPUs, helping drive adoption and speed

www.pcgamesn.com

 

[Mahnmut]

The trade off in performance is not worth it and most people do not have a 4090

You know that you don’t have to have a 4090 to enjoy ray tracing on PC right ? AMD implementation is just shitty.

 

[OZ9000]

True for modern games. But Quake 2 for example runs at 1080p/50-60 fps on a RTX 2060. So it should work on consoles, too.

The game still looks like shit, RT or not.

 

[CGNoire]

Its crazy like 80% of you all didnt read the op.

He said he wants RTX "old" "more simple" games like Quake 2 RTX etc...
Not modern games.

 

[ahtlas7]

3-4 more console generations to go. Amd will get there eventually.

 

[GymWolf]

It's for the best, these console are not powerfull enough.

I don't get putting realistic lighting in old ass games tbh but if you like this stuff, pc should be the place where to search for this stuff.

 

[RickMasters]

I think it will be more common next gen, when GPUs are more powerful and AMD chips are more efficient with RT performance, while being more powerful. Im glad to see 60FPS become more common this gen though, and hopefully 60 becomes the new 30. Next gen Id like to see 60FPS, 4K,RT , more physical game worlds and high AA for that crisp clean image be the focus, but right now I dont think these consoles got the juice to do the whole package. Still I seen some games that really impress me in the last few years and I expect this gen will see a little bit more RT-30FPS games as last gen gets completely dropped. but that will come at the cost of 60FPS for sure.

 

[Ozriel]

Its crazy like 80% of you all didnt read the op.

He said he wants RTX "old" "more simple" games like Quake 2 RTX etc...
Not modern games.

OP confused many by putting ‘flagship games’ in the thread title.

 

[Randall365]

I listen to a gaming podcast and they are often banging on about raytracing - and now - dlss 3 as being massive gamechangers. Every so often they mention that Nvidia gave them 4090s!

In the real world, I think consumers just don’t care. Is it really worth dropping nearly £2k on a graphics card for better lighting?

At least with going up to 4k or HDR you could see the difference immediately.

 

[Esppiral]

I am still waiting for Minecraft Raytraced, you lier Ms ....

 

[KloetenQuetsche]

Minecraft never happens, I believe. Especially in a Sandbox Game it is very performance intensive.

They should use RT for small games like Portal.
And they should use it as a Gameplay element!

 

[Kataploom]

Any insights into how intel managed to get better RT performance than AMD on their first try then? AMD tried to cheap out by not wanting dedicated silicon for the RT cores, yes it had some valid reasons but lets not pretend this is nvidia doing nvidia things. DXR 1.1 was also more beneficial for amd tha nv/intel.

“Microsoft DXR 1.1 API… was co-architected and co-developed by AMD and MIcrosoft to take full advantage of the common ray tracing architecture,” says Wang.” This is a great proof point of the benefit of ‘Radeon everywhere’.”

http://[URL]https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/ray-tracing-microsoft-dxr-co-developed

[/URL]

Imo Intel just went the Nvidia route, yet RT is resource hungry on any card anyway, like they literally brought it too soon

 

[TrebleShot]

RT is a gimmick sorry to say.

 

[Azurro]

True for modern games. But Quake 2 for example runs at 1080p/50-60 fps on a RTX 2060. So it should work on consoles, too.

Those games still look like crap nowadays. Low polygon meshes, textures with very little detail, bad animations, those RTX games are interesting exercises for geeks like us, the general public sees something like Half Life RTX vs, say, FFXVI and will rightfully think HL looks like crap.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

The adoption is a good start, next gen consoles gonna be a good jump in RT.

 

[FBeeEye]

It's not baffling at all. These consoles just aren't very good at it. It's just a bullet point feature done in a barebones way to check a "next gen" box.

I want full ray traced GI, reflections and shadows in a game. That's a next gen thing.

 

[X-Wing]

Both consoles having AMD chips and AMD not being able to match Nvidia when it comes to Ray-Tracing may explain a lot.