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Starfield is one of the worst written RPGs of all time

Bernardougf

Gold Member
Years and years of hiring for ideological reasons instead of merit has reachead its limit and dropped the quality of everything in western and especially US entertainment industry, almost every new show, movie and now games are becoming caricatures of what this hive mind of political message "thinks" the world is or should be. And most of this "writers" dont even know how to speak with a normal human being, since they leave recluse lifes or surrounded by people that think/talk exactly like them, and this shows very clearly in the dialog they try to pass as "normal".

Hollywood is dying because of it, the streaming services are imploding and now fucking KOREAN and other foreign shows draw more attention than Hollywood multi-millionare productions.

Quality in everything comes with merit, always have, always will. In time they will learn that because money always talk.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Years and years of hiring for ideological reasons instead of merit has reachead its limit and dropped the quality of everything in western and especially US entertainment industry, almost every new show, movie and now games are becoming caricatures of what this hive mind of political message "thinks" the world is or should be. And most of this "writers" dont even know how to speak with a normal human being, since they leave recluse lifes or surrounded by people that think/talk exactly like them, and this shows very clearly in the dialog they try to pass as "normal".

Hollywood is dying because of it, the streaming services are imploding and now fucking KOREAN and other foreign shows draw more attention than Hollywood multi-millionare productions.

Quality in everything comes with merit, always have, always will. In time they will learn that because money always talk.
Let's not turn this into a culture war. Bethesda's writing has been shit since the days of Oblivion at the very least. Morrowind got a pass from us because the setting was so alien, exotic, and unique that we loved it. It was especially hilarious seeing Obsidian utterly school them with Fallout: New Vegas. Bethesda at least had the crutch of a pretty well written world to lean on but still managed to write a subpar story with Fallout 3. New Vegas just made them look like a bunch of a amateurs.
 
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SJRB

Gold Member
Quite the opposite, it is a very realistically written game.

I have to think about every answer I give and I can never truly say what I want to say because if I do there’s always someone upset or offended. It’s just like real life!

Conversing in this game is like 50 hours of “lunch break with Tiffany from HR, Stacy from Management and John the gay dude from sales”.
 

alife

Member
NPC: "This particular criminal is actually quite brilliant coming up with an idea like that."
Me at a later time in the questline: "Yeah so, this fool will probably figure out a solution to the problem that they're currently trying to resolve and based on my observations and deductions.... this person is resourceful."
NPC: "Pfft, are you admiring this scumbag? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THIS CRIMINAL HAS DONE QWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".
Me: "Listen, bitch... I was just warning y'all about this motherfucker's plans to overcome a certain roadblock that will eventually lead to their success in dominating the fucking galaxy. Eat a space Snickers bar and chill the fuck out."
i5PYykG.gif
 
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Darchaos

Member
I love the game, but yeah the companions and the boring attitude is horrible. I guess this is how it starts to be in the us, with the bluehaired army on crusade over the country.

Its spreading over the pond but its not as bad where i live, yet. You can still go out and be flirty, ask straight out: you want som fuck? And then a simple no or a nice beating in the bed or wherever the 2 horny people decides to do it, as it should be, exitement. Maybe not the best example but you get it.
 
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Zuzu

Member
Getting 50 hours of fun doesn't sound that bad, tho.

To be honest the last 25 hours or so were not enjoyable for me much. The first 20-25 hours I was really enjoying discovering the world, doing side quests and the looter shooter gameplay loop. Then around 24 hours or so I think I started to get a little bored and decided that I'd go and complete the main quest. That took about another 10 hours or so and I thought it was a terrible main quest unfortunately.

After finishing the main quest I went and spent a number of hours doing the Crimson Fleet mission line and the Ryujin Industries mission lines and some other stuff. That took me to around 50 hours and I didn't enjoy either the Crimson Fleet or Ryujin quest lines and haven't finished them. Some of the reason for that is because of the poor writing and characters. So in the end I enjoyed my first couple of dozen hours in the game but for a game this size it got boring and unengaging pretty quickly for me.
 
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mdkirby

Member
Well this is disheartening. I suppose it means I most definitely shouldn’t play baldurs gate before starfield.

I do find writing in games as going increasingly downhill, and it wasn’t good to start with. It almost makes me think that in the case of gaming, the writing could be decidedly improved by having ai writers.

Yeah, ai can’t write an incredible top tier story, but Gaming isn’t getting A+ writers, with few exceptions, it’s getting D- writers if we’re lucky, and even in those exceptions the side quests generally feel like they’ve been written by an IT intern who flunked their English GCSE. If ai can write to a C grade (which given some of the stuff I’ve seen it most definitely can), it’ll be a big improvement.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
lol okay then

First. There is literally no way what so ever to create or meet a woman in this game with bigger bust than like C cups without it being a fat person. The body morph sliders are completely broken. Hour glass figure don’t exist in this world. Go for a thin waist and the ass gets flatter than on some marathon runner. Literally the biologically preferred body type with wide hips don’t exist. Only if it’s a fat person. No pear shapes. No wide hips and thin waist. Can’t even have a round bigger butt or thicker thighs, and this is in a game made in 2023 when everybody including their grandmas are working out doing a million squats per day specifically to build that type of body. Don’t know if it’s some western politically correct sexualization or objectification protest or whatever it is but it’s quite possibly the most boring character design tool ever and since they use the same tool for all characters it means the whole universe is boring. Can’t believe nobody on the team of 500 or whatever devs hasn’t noticed it.

Secondly. There is no clothes anywhere in this game that in any way trigger anyone to be turned on. Not even in the night club. It’s like some office space unisex casual friday every day in the whole universe at the same time. They even messed up Andreja’s fairly nice black default clothes where you can get hints of some nice legs hiding underneath and placed some wrinkle on the skirt thing on the front so it looks like she’s sporting a hard-on if you look at her from the side. 🤦‍♂️

There is more but I need breakfast
I couldn't actually believe this to be true, searched YouTube for "sexy Starfield characters" and what I've seen made me realize you are 100% correct. Lol
 

whyman

Member
I actually love that Constellation is all goody shoes. They are idealistic Roddenberry types and I can't seem to imagine them to be different. Obviously it makes playing an asshole harder but it should be that way.
I agree. For me the writing actually fit in this game and after playing it for more than 100 hours I think it’s not only the best game of the year, it’s top 10 of the best written ones.
 

Bernardougf

Gold Member
Let's not turn this into a culture war. Bethesda's writing has been shit since the days of Oblivion at the very least. Morrowind got a pass from us because the setting was so alien, exotic, and unique that we loved it. It was especially hilarious seeing Obsidian utterly school them with Fallout: New Vegas. Bethesda at least had the crutch of a pretty well written world to lean on but still managed to write a subpar story with Fallout 3. New Vegas just made them look like a bunch of a amateurs.
Theres is no culture wars.... is just facts

And what's always been bad can always get worst
 
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makaveli60

Member
I thought I might play it someday, but after reading this? LOL, no way. Fucking propaganda game. Why does every videogame has to be propaganda nowadays? I know the answer, so it’s just a rhetorical question... what a shame, as to me Oblivion is one of the most memorable games ever created.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
I am enjoying the game but I agree with most of the criticism.

Fairly early in the game I had a dialog choice where I gave Mateo shit about how I was winning 3-nothing when it comes to finding artifacts. He laughs and says he likes friendly competition.

Then Andreja and Noel both butt into the conversation and start scolding him saying we can’t have any competition at all. He responds like “well sometimes I find that friendly competition inspires people to do their best”, then both ladies scold him some more and shoot him down.

Should’ve known by looking at this guy that he’d play the “soy dude who gets bossed around by the girlbosses” role:

original

———

Also I’ll say that masculinity/femininity and sexual attraction do not exist in the Starfield universe. You could gender swap the entire cast of NPCs and nothing would feel different about it (aside from a few scenes like the one above now seeming like toxic men belittling their female colleague for daring to speak her mind).

Everyone everywhere wears frumpy unisex jumpsuits and exhibits zero interest in sex or relationships. Even in the Crimson Fleet
(which is supposed to be like an outlaw biker gang) has perfect gender equality and perfect gender/racial representation at all levels.

Nobody is attracted to anybody else or wants to make themselves attractive to others. Nobody has any sort of libido or biological urges. Like the whole world is populated by sexless non-gendered automatons defined entirely by their profession + D&D alignment.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Like I said on release day… just the beginning is so bland compared to the last two elders scrolls games. There was no big climatic scene. In Skyrim you start at your execution and then a dragon attack. It’s a big opening with highs and lows that really gets you pumped and into the world right off the bat.

In starfield it’s Nothing but some walking around and then some grunt space pirates attack … then you leave. 😵‍💫

Also What’s funny is that the quest you talked about having to steal something from someone.. I tried a bunch of things and just ended up beating up the guy and he just gave it to me.. lol no big battle or anything. there is literally a hundred solders on the ship and he just lets me beat him up and gives me the thing.

The best planet story wise is probably the old west planet.. I don’t even remember the name but the setting and quests were definitely a step above others in the game in terms of atmosphere and story telling.
 
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Venom Snake

Member
"They will sometimes leave your party and brand you irredeemable, even if the only way to avoid the enemies attacking you was through a persuasion check that you failed, leaving you with no choice but to defend yourself. You’ll still be met with the companion leaving your party and refusing to talk to you. Unless every step you take is within their exacting moral expectations you will be reprimanded or dumped."

It's almost as if the script was written by these people:
vs2ey5.gif
 

Nankatsu

Gold Member
10 years exclusive in the making.

When they made that big showcase about the game I was legit interested in it, but the more I read about the game, the less desire I have to play it.

For a big space sci-fi game might as well go play Mass Effect: Legendary Edition.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Also What’s funny is that the quest you talked about having to steal something from someone.. I tried a bunch of things and just ended up beating up the guy and he just gave it to me.. lol no big battle of anything. there is literally a hundred solders on the ship and he just lets me beat him up and gives me the thing.

The best planet story wise is probably the old west planet.. I don’t even remember the name but the setting and quests were definitely a step above others in the game in terms of atmosphere and story telling.
Same here. The guy just falling over and giving up, handing me everything, with 100 bodyguards standing there on the ship, prompted me to close the game and write up this thread instead of continuing my session. Such a deflating resolution after walking through dozens of guards to get to his chambers.
 

Aion002

Member
It's trash. I tried to be the bad guy, joined the crimson fleet, did everything evil that I could, yet the game still treats me as the good guy and it didn't affect the main story at all.

There's no other path than the goody two shoes way. They did it so much better on Skyrim, since the game has so many story arcs where you can be evil, neutral or good and there are consequences.

Having one main story that is the only one that seems to matter to the game was such a let down.

Also, the companions sucks so much, they're basically all the same, with the same set of morality, again another huge downgrade compared to Skyrim. For Bethesda most ambitious game, Starfield surely is a joke.
 
Turning a strong independent woman into a waifu that's completely dependent on you sounds like good roleplaying to me. Where Starfield went wrong is not letting you do that to all of them. Imagine a galaxy ruled by space Karens but after helping them a few times with simple tasks like killing that barista that got their order wrong or opening a jar of space mayonnaise they turn into a blubbering mess in your presence. Game of the year, all years.
 

Dr.Morris79

Member
Good writing in an RPG means different things to different people. You might appreciate meaningful choices. You might appreciate deep conversations with realistic characters. You might appreciate an epic adventure full of memorable twists and turns. You might appreciate years spent on developing the worldbuilding for an interesting universe full of diverse characters, races, species, backgrounds, and ideas.

Well, Starfield fails at RPG writing on every level. This doesn’t mean it’s a worthless failure of a game overall. The core mechanics of exploring, shooting, and looting can hold your attention, just as they may have in Bethesda’s previous open world RPGs. But at every turn the writing slaps you in the face.

Let’s start with the companions. Dear god. All of them are Lawful Good wet blankets who criticize you every roughly 15 seconds. Inventory over the minuscule weight limit? “Have you considered NOT picking up everything you can find?” every time you pick up an item. Stealing something, including from villains? “Wow, I didn’t realize I was hanging out with a CRIMINAL” every time you pick up an item. Get into a fight that you could have conceivably avoided via dialogue options? They will sometimes leave your party and brand you irredeemable, even if the only way to avoid the enemies attacking you was through a persuasion check that you failed, leaving you with no choice but to defend yourself. You’ll still be met with the companion leaving your party and refusing to talk to you. Unless every step you take is within their exacting moral expectations you will be reprimanded or dumped.

There are also story beats with bizarre turns. During one of the main faction quests, you are given one of your few pseudo-consequential player choices. Basically, you can choose a risky scientific option that unleashes genetically engineered microbes onto humanity to solve the problem, or a less risky naturalistic option where you breed an animal that will take care of the problem. If you choose the sensible naturalistic option with what is essentially a guaranteed good outcome based on the evidence presented to you, your companions will condemn you as a mouth-breathing moron. If you choose the risky scientific option that explicitly has a chance of wiping out humanity by mutating in unknown ways, your companions will laud you for “Trusting the Science" (actual quote), in what is a bizarre, warped take on recent events political messaging, considering how risky the in-game choice is.

Not only that, but if you have a companion in your party, good luck picking any of the rare Han Solo style dialogue options. In a mission where Andreja is your forced companion, you dock with a ship with the intention of stealing an item from the owner. This a morally gray mission where you’re expected to con the owner, burglarize him, or kill him in order to retrieve the item. When you enter the ship, you’re met with one of the owner’s employees, and he asks you why you’re there. You only have two dialogue options: one, be an imbecile and tell him exactly why you’re there, or two, you can reply facetiously that you heard there was a big party on the ship and you’re here to party. If you say the latter, Andreja, who is literally there to help you steal the item by any means necessary, will respond by Disliking your comment and interjecting flatly that she “has no interest in partying.”

It's a problem endemic to all the characters in Starfield. It was marketed as a Han Solo simulator, but you are constantly badgered and browbeaten by catty, humorless women for anything you do. I won’t dwell too much on the ideological choices made to satisfy the current year climate but suffice to say that roughly 90% of the leaders in Starfield are women. And they are one-dimensional, deeply unlikeable charisma black holes who will talk to you with utter contempt most of the time. Of the remaining 10%, most of the men are presented as incompetent or evil. It’s a galaxy ruled by Karens. And the Karens are also your party members and love interests. I have never experienced a more unlikeable cast of characters in an RPG.

Let’s also consider the dreaded romance options. The first romanceable companion you encounter is Sarah. Sarah is a middle-aged ex-military leader who runs the organization you join. She’s quick to criticize you and expects you to do the conventional and lawful thing at all times. If you romance her, by choosing options like Trusting the Science and by praising her awkwardly at every opportunity in a way that would be creepy and weird to any actual human being, she will eventually begin to trust you and open up. Now, by opening up I mean she will reveal herself to be a giant ball of insecure, wallowing baggage that you are expected to comfort with dialogue options that reduce her to the emotional maturity of a small child. “Wow, you’re so strong, Sarah! Good job staving off that nervous breakdown over nothing, Sarah!” Then, inexplicably, you will end these conversations about her baggage with a “Flirt” option if you want to pursue her romantically. She will rebuff your advances awkwardly and end the conversation every time. Do this on around a dozen separate occasions, with no actual romance or flirtation between you two, only rejections at the end of your impromptu therapy sessions, and she will trust you enough to take you on her loyalty mission, which is literally to confront her emotional baggage. Complete that and she will decide that she can get involved with you romantically. Without any intimate moments, explicitly or implicitly, she will then decide that she has fallen in love with you and want to get married. Handle her baggage for her --> let’s get married. That’s how it works for humans, right? Right?

I’m genuinely horrified by the writing in this game, and I pity the people who conjured up these character interactions. They must live some of the dullest and most dysfunctional lives imaginable.

Starfield displays time and time again, without fail, that it fundamentally lacks understanding of the human condition. You land on worlds with the premise of a dystopian cyberpunk society where hard drugs are legal and everything is available for a price. When you arrive, though, all you’ll find is some tepid fully clothed dancing at a bland nightclub and a few people talking about how cu-raaazy everything is. It’s a game unwilling to explore humanity’s faults and genuine human drama on any level. At the futuristic fashionista clothing stores your only options are literally unisex tarps. Everyone is of varied ethnicity but there is no ethnic culture whatsoever. Women are purely masculine, leaving no one left to be feminine. This is not a demand for T&A by any means. In the real world, men and women don’t wear tarps and talk in monotone at a safe distance, defined purely by their profession. Life is messy and dramatic, desires and egos clash, stars rise and fall, people love and lust and hate and trust and betray. But not in Starfield, a corporate-sanitized ideological bog too afraid to include one iota of humanity in its storytelling.

RPGs are doing so much more elsewhere, from Baldur's Gate 3 to Cyberpunk 2077, but even looking back at Bethesda's own games, this one is a step backwards. The Elder Scrolls games incorporate different ethnic backgrounds and intense religious beliefs, ugly racial prejudice and morally gray deities. Starfield reeks of design by committee resulting in a product too afraid to take any storytelling risks. Nothing can ever be well-written when it is this extraordinarily conformist and risk-averse, particularly when the expectations for political correctness are so narrow in 2023.

You can do better.
1peoJ0n.gif


Absolutely spot on. Couldn't argue with any of that. It really is a sign of the times with this game

I'll be shifting back over to Cyberpunk next time I boot up my machine. I'll no doubt go back to it after a few more patches but as of now it's all very shallow and see through in regard to 'modern' sensibilities

And it sure as hell isn't the only piece of media that's been injected with that guff in these times

It does break my heart though. I can't work out if writers and designers are utterly bereft of genuine art or are being held at an ideological gunpoint feeling they cant. I can only hope it's not the former.
 
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SJRB

Gold Member
When you first meet Andreja she pretty much executes some dude over a quarrel and gushes all over you about it within minutes pleading for you to keep this silent, but whenever you do anything even remotely morally dubious you get a ANDREJA DISLIKED THAT.

Lady, you fucking killed a dude point blank and asked me not to tell anyone in Constellation, how are you judging me for this?

This is a simple example but the game is just filled to the brim with these logical inconsistencies. Nothing meshes, it's just a ton of tiny individual societal mechanics that don't rhyme with each other in any way. There's something going on under the hood that just doesn't feel right or good, often without being so obvious that you can point it out specifically.

How can you be immersed in a game that is so disconnected from how a human or even a society functions?
 
The poor writing, boring characters and bad pacing of the main quest are major reasons why I’ve quit playing it after about 50hrs. It’s a very dull and uninteresting place to be from a character and story perspective. I have other problems with it but these ones are some of the major ones.

I have been playing through Mass Effect 2 for the first time and so far the gulf in writing quality and characters is huge between the two games.
Thane
An assassin who prays not for his victims but for himself so he can accept his fate and carry on doing what he must with the time he has left.

Mordin
Wraught with guilt over creating a bioweopen that neutered an entire species.

Tali
Wanting to prove herself more than just being an admirals daughter.

Samara
Is a monk task with killing her own daughter.


The list goes on and on. Man mass effect was godamn special.
 
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Fredrik

Member
…rant continued

no dogs
no cats
no sealife
no shorter people
no taller people
no bigger bust
no bigger booty
no curvy fit women
no Arnold guys
no shorter bulky wide guys
no skipping leg day guys
no glasses
bad beard

And I tried standing in the same spot for over a day in the big city, the citizen people walk past but those you can interact with that may have a quest only move around in a small area and never go home to sleep or anything like that. I understand that this is difficult to get right and most AAA games have static NPCs but Skyrim does it better and it’s 12 years old.

One thing is cool though, the characters can move around a room and sit at different places and on different height chairs and sit in different poses and even climb over benches etc.
 

Dr.Morris79

Member
When you first meet Andreja she pretty much executes some dude over a quarrel and gushes all over you about it within minutes pleading for you to keep this silent, but whenever you do anything even remotely morally dubious you get a ANDREJA DISLIKED THAT.

Lady, you fucking killed a dude point blank and asked me not to tell anyone in Constellation, how are you judging me for this?

This is a simple example but the game is just filled to the brim with these logical inconsistencies. Nothing meshes, it's just a ton of tiny individual societal mechanics that don't rhyme with each other in any way. There's something going on under the hood that just doesn't feel right or good, often without being so obvious that you can point it out specifically.

How can you be immersed in a game that is so disconnected from how a human or even a society functions?
After thirty hours of playing my game ended up with Sam Coe and me roaming planets with me pretending it was Jensen behind me, that held stuff..

It was that deep.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
Same here. The guy just falling over and giving up, handing me everything, with 100 bodyguards standing there on the ship, prompted me to close the game and write up this thread instead of continuing my session. Such a deflating resolution after walking through dozens of guards to get to his chambers.
I just did this quest last night. Just walked right in, released the animals (which nobody objected to even though they saw me do it), then took the artifact (which triggered everyone to go hostile against me even though I wasn't spotted AFAIK).

I found the guy and shot him until he begged for mercy and agreed to call off the guards. Then I killed him anyway and finished exterminating/looting the place. Then I took off and blew up his ship before leaving, just for good measure.

After how hyper-judgmental everyone was thus far, I thought for sure I would get grilled and harassed by Sarah and everyone else, but nobody objected to it whatsoever. It did get me a 500 credit bounty (as opposed to like 15,000 for harming an innocent person anywhere else lol) which I had to repay before going back to New Atlantis.
 
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meech

Member
I have been playing through Mass Effect 2 for the first time and so far the gulf in writing quality and characters is huge between the two games.
Lol, what. To call the writing of Mass Effect 2 retarded would be a compliment.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
…rant continued

no dogs
no cats
no sealife
no shorter people
no taller people
no bigger bust
no bigger booty
no curvy fit women
no Arnold guys
no shorter bulky wide guys
no skipping leg day guys
no glasses
bad beard

And I tried standing in the same spot for over a day in the big city, the citizen people walk past but those you can interact with that may have a quest only move around in a small area and never go home to sleep or anything like that. I understand that this is difficult to get right and most AAA games have static NPCs but Skyrim does it better and it’s 12 years old.

One thing is cool though, the characters can move around a room and sit at different places and on different height chairs and sit in different poses and even climb over benches etc.
Yes, they ditched 24 hour NPC routines, which was one of their biggest successes in previous games.
 
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