FranXico
Member
Honestly, PUBG is one of the few games that would give you a pretty much identical experience on Stadia.cue massive rubberbanding
And to be clear, that's not a compliment to either.
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Stadia Multiplayer Will Be “Way Better Than What You Could Get Out of a Console” – Google
- Thread starter CyberPanda
- Start date
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And to be clear, that's not a compliment to either.
Romulus
Member
Are they offering a short free trial for Stadia so people can try it out? I don't see how this would work otherwise. They want you to pay money and buy a digital game to likely be disappointed anyway?
I'm all about the future of game streaming but the question is, does it work well now? Probably not, and I'm not paying money to be a guinea pig.
I'm all about the future of game streaming but the question is, does it work well now? Probably not, and I'm not paying money to be a guinea pig.
SaturnSaturn
Member
Everyone should have known that Stadia would be a total trashfire when the first thing the CEO said during its reveal was "I dont really play games"
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Next year, Stadia Base (1080p at 60fps) will be free for everyone. At that point, you can buy whatever game you like and just play it without paying a subscription - as long as you don't care about 4K.
I agree though - surely they have some sort of free trial offer in the works and just haven't revealed details about it yet. There are too many factors that will vary on a customer by customer basis for them to not have some sort of trial program.
Romulus
Member
So unless they reveal a free trial, you have to buy a game to see how it works. A game that you will never own. Maybe they'll just offer refunds no hassle for newcomers.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
I'd be kind of surprised that with Destiny 2 going F2P and being so tied to the Google Stadia branding (the "full version" is included with Stadia Pro) if Google maybe isn't planning on releasing some sort of Stadia limited trial using the F2P Destiny 2 game as the hook. Perhaps we'll see a return to the AOL days and see stuff like "10 free hours" or some such.
BusierDonkey
Member
Also,
Lort
Banned
Whilst it is true that games sometimes these days suffer from rubber banding in certain circumstances we need to look at more detail about what and why for this to happen...
1) the packet does not arrive in time
2) the other player moves
3) the other player moves in a direction or at a speed the client dosent expect
now this situation on google stradia... the whole screen will freeze or massive macro blocking will occur making nothing at all visible( rather than one item rubber banding and all others and the players smooth ability to move themself unaffected)
heres the kicker not only is google stradia worse in case one ... it happens in all cases above. ( not just when all three happen at once)
So stradia will have much worse consequences in many more circumstances.
1) the packet does not arrive in time
2) the other player moves
3) the other player moves in a direction or at a speed the client dosent expect
now this situation on google stradia... the whole screen will freeze or massive macro blocking will occur making nothing at all visible( rather than one item rubber banding and all others and the players smooth ability to move themself unaffected)
heres the kicker not only is google stradia worse in case one ... it happens in all cases above. ( not just when all three happen at once)
So stradia will have much worse consequences in many more circumstances.
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Vawn
Banned
Right. There are benefits for multi-player theoretically. We will see. I seriously doubt it works as well as they claim or hope.
jakinov
Member
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I doubt Steve Ballmer, Satya, Howard Stringer or the current Sony guy or whoever are big gamers either. It's not like they need him to make decisions on game design. Plus at it's core Stadia is a tech solution with tech p[roblems to solve.
Also,
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Google is deeper than anyone into the internet realm, and has missed time in the console wars. nobody said you can't launch a new console 6,7,8 generations in but you will have doubters.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
Not just better than consoles.
WAY better than consoles.
WAY better than consoles.
Javthusiast
Banned
Their whole pr speak is nothing but oh this thing the others do will be so much better on Stadia.
Yeah right. Stadia still gonna be dead within two years.
Yeah right. Stadia still gonna be dead within two years.
Bathtub Fart
Banned
Stadia will probably be able to provide a insecure backdoor to everyone's device using it. Google is a pawn for the global elite, why wouldn't this be used for even more sinister bullshit? I want gaming as far away from them as possible.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
Don't be sad.
CyberPanda
Banned
Why is he sad?
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
People are being mean to Google
CyberPanda
Banned
True.People are being mean to Google
Slings and Arrows
Banned
On a more serious and boring note, do we want streaming?
Wind back 20 years, back to the days of Road Rash, Mario and all things fun in gaming. If I could have streamed Diablo to a handheld device and played it in school, i would have been over the moon.
Nowadays though? With lootboxes, MTX and straight-up gambling, causing gaming to be listed as an official addiction, do we want people and ourselves to have access to this content 24/7?
Doesn't it water down the quality of games, if all we want is cheap entertainment, all day, every day?
Technical issues aside, streaming won't promote a renaissance in gaming, it will only bolster the Lootbox, gambling MTX shite we see today.
I don't like the future of gaming. Maybe it's time for me to get off this ride.
Wind back 20 years, back to the days of Road Rash, Mario and all things fun in gaming. If I could have streamed Diablo to a handheld device and played it in school, i would have been over the moon.
Nowadays though? With lootboxes, MTX and straight-up gambling, causing gaming to be listed as an official addiction, do we want people and ourselves to have access to this content 24/7?
Doesn't it water down the quality of games, if all we want is cheap entertainment, all day, every day?
Technical issues aside, streaming won't promote a renaissance in gaming, it will only bolster the Lootbox, gambling MTX shite we see today.
I don't like the future of gaming. Maybe it's time for me to get off this ride.
PocoJoe
Banned
Bandwith cap havent been a thing at developed countries since 90's
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
Apparently they're still really common in the US.
ZywyPL
Banned
They have a point, I give them that, but a "LAN" means absolutely nothing when you have tens-hundreds ms of lag before connecting to it in the first place. So up until all those gaming services have at least one server per country they will always remain semi-playable.
Take LoL for example - South Korea has it's own dedicated server, and it's such a tiny country, so it's in fact like playing on a LAN over there, ask any competitive LoL player or just look at the Korean players streams and their pings. Whereas NA as a contrast has two servers (as far as I know), for a county that's literally ~100x larger, and I'm not even adding Canada to the equation, just the USA alone. Same deal for entire Europe.
So yeah, you can have a 100TBits/s optic fiber connection, less than 1 ns ping, and what's not between you own servers , but as long as people are lagged before they even get there, it just doesn't work as intended.
Take LoL for example - South Korea has it's own dedicated server, and it's such a tiny country, so it's in fact like playing on a LAN over there, ask any competitive LoL player or just look at the Korean players streams and their pings. Whereas NA as a contrast has two servers (as far as I know), for a county that's literally ~100x larger, and I'm not even adding Canada to the equation, just the USA alone. Same deal for entire Europe.
So yeah, you can have a 100TBits/s optic fiber connection, less than 1 ns ping, and what's not between you own servers , but as long as people are lagged before they even get there, it just doesn't work as intended.
Frenzy-kun
Neo Member
It doesn't really work like that. I have as a player to send the state of my game to the server, the server has to send back the data to the clients, and the clients has to interpret that data, synch it with what's going on on screen and send the data back.
In stadia, I only send my input. It's the server the one who calculates the state for all the players, so there is no need for any kind of corrections and synch issues. If you play multiplayer you should know that most of the interactions are not "real" in the sense that the game has to predict, and whatever happens between your input and the reception of the state by another client is basically simulated and overall, fake to give the impression it's on real time.
On the contrary, what this exposes is the hypocrisy around stadia, because now one cares about the lag on multiplayer games, which is more than double than with stadia, but suddenly it becomes superimportant when talking about the new platform. Stadia removes the dependencies on the other player. Removes cheaters and any state hacks because it's played in the server and it doesn't depend on local machine interpretations of states that are comming from another client that could not even be legit, and it doesn't require double validation both by the client and the server.
Multiplayer in stadia will be not only easier to implement, but also more deterministic, cheater free and the state of the game will be updated faster, even with large pings. A player with bad connection will be the only one affected by that and the rest of the players won't depend on their connection to update the game state.
And this is not marketing. It's purely technical.
Lort
Banned
Traditionally the game renders the next frame based on the local world simulation with predictions of the other clients and verified game state done on the server. Many games render frames ahead which gives extra lag ( which could be as high as google stradia ) but quality fps games dont .. the input goes to the console the console renders the frame, the tv shows the frame ... no communication to the server for local movement .. min input 60 ms response. ( at 60 fps)
For google stradia ( or any cloud game service) the input goes to the cloud then the game renders then the video encoder encodes then the frames transmitted back ...minimum frame input latency about 100 ms.
It works exactly as i described it. There are ineffeciencies in the way many older games were written .. especially those that are not server hosted ( ie the way many games were last gen) that google is pretending are still relevant now. in modern games the client dosent spend time syncronising the game state to find some middle ground, it accepts the authoritative server then renders that with prediction .. thats done on the server exactly like googles proposing ( It is not new).
if i hack my console and move another player in the local game state it dosent actually move the player in the server game state ( or for that player). It USED to if i was a server.. but most games are server in the cloud based so its exactly the same as google .. only with less lag for local movement and less consequences when packets are dropped ( rubber banding occursrather than whole video dropout).
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Frenzy-kun
Neo Member
You are talking about local movement, but games are much more than that. The rest of the game depends on the other players. With stadia you are removing steps, so, independently of your ping, the game state will update faster. If you try to play fighting games or fps only, you are very aware of all those issues that will not exist in stadia. And you are also not counting that because you don't have to catch up with the game, you don't double the ping because you don't have to confirm data, you just stream your input. Which means you basically play with a delay equivalent to the ping, a delay that in a stable connection is lower than the delay you are actually having if you sum all the parts, because, for instance, the dualshock 3 buttons had already an input lag of +23 ms. If you add the 33ms of rendering time of a 30fps game and the lag of the tv, you already are already touching the 100s, and the games are still playable (and they still have to work without the tv game mode which, most of the players ignore). And with the stream of data is continuous, which means you can adapt to it. Rarely you will have situations where the anticipation time scores lower than 200ms beause that's basically the time it takes for the information to travel from your senses to your brain and offer a response (although because at those response times you become aware fof the lag, it creates unconfort, which does not mean "unplayable", just that you notice it). The average delay for players as an study was made (citation needed) from input to display was about 133ms, and although extreme games like fighting games may have reaction times under the 67 ms, the game still has to work for the broad public.
So no worries.
DoctorEkkoUK
Member
So tired of hearing how things will be, and could be better. Just release something that is better and then you will get the hype. Everyone is way to cynical of the game industry at this point to get hype over bold claims about something no one has actually seen yet.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Yeah.
And the most difficult thing with Stadia, is that it is literally impossible to know how well the games perform until you put it in your house.
At least with offline consoles, you can try them out elsewhere and know you would get roughly the same experience. Game streaming would not just be different in performance from country to country, but likely house to house.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
US isn't a developed country?
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Just came in here to slap everybody who agrees with Google on this.
Google is funny eh?
Vawn
Banned
We're working on it man.
hybrid_birth
Gold Member
Shifty
Member
Imagine perfect netcode, then run it through twitch.
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Andrew Evenstar
Member
I'm so ready for the Last of Us 2 Multiplayer on STADIA
Phase
Member
Debatable.