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Sony Gamepass: Does it really not make sense financially? Let's see

sunnysideup

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That would be a "boss" move. Like buying Bethesda and getting MLB for GP day one were "boss" moves.
Im just taking numbers out of my ass here, but i am pretty sure more than half of the rentpass subscribers are there because they want to play cod online and not because they want to rent games..

It would kill rentpass. People who want to play latest cod, bf, gta online would choose ps5. No one wants a monthly online bill.
 
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Bryank75

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Fair disclaimer: I hate the idea of enjoying content just because the other team can't play it. That's very schadenfreude for me.

Having said that, purely from a Sony's business perspective, I have no idea why Sony isn't doing anything like that. 2-3 years ago, Bandai Namco's market cap was around $2 billion. Now it's $6+ billion. Sega is still around $2-$3 billion dollars that Sony can acquire.

Honestly, they should invest roughly $4-$5 billion in studio acquisitions and portfolio enhancements. With that kind of money, they can easily get:
  • BluePoint
  • HouseMarque
  • Kojima Productions
  • Ember Lab
  • miHoYo
  • Sega
  • Platinum Games
It's just baffling that they aren't being very aggressive. I don't like the notion that Xbox will just run past Sony with these moves. Sony is just so far ahead. However, Xbox will narrow the lead if Sony doesn't do anything. To maintain that lead, Sony needs to become aggressive again.

Excellent pics.

My pics would be;

IO interactive to make Hitman or James bond in episodes for the service

Kojima for a horror in episodic form or seasonal form.

Ember - Bolster 1st partyreleases

Sega - Bolster 1st part exclusives / Virtua Fighter for EVO / Persona / Boyonetta

Kodokawa (From Soft) - Big AAA first party exclusives, targeting PC gamers to buy PlayStation hardware (This would bolster their anime moves too, so it is more for Sony as a whole)

MiHoYo would be nice too.
 
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Azurro

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you have objectively no idea what you are talking about. And I mean it sincerely. no idea. If you think that ms one of the richest companies in the world has yet to learn how to calculate how to make a few dollars. Yours is pure fanboysim, by the way I don't know why, tied up to the past.

Ok, let's take a look at your assertion that MS, one of the richest companies in the world, cannot throw money at bad business ventures.

Well, ever heard of Nokia and windows phone? It was a failure of massive proportions, losing MS billions. They did it in order to get a foothold in the mobile OS marketplace, with disastrous results.

They have a litany of failed projects: Zune, the Kin, they spent billions trying to get into ERP software only to shut it down.

I have no problem with MS btw, I use Windows at work every day. I am just able to see some facts in the marketplace, MS themselves have accepted GamePass is losing them money, while when announcing their results they have deliberately obscured their market performance. A company leading in the marketplace doesn't do this.

MS just hopes that eventually, at some point, GamePass will be so attractive that they will become Netflix and have hundreds of millions of subscribers and eventually will be able to ecke out some profit. Sony doesn't need to do this because they are making tens of billions in profit, now.

How you can't see this, honestly I don't know.
 

Zeroing

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Am I the only one thinking that it will be more than just games? Because Sony works with HBO, Netflix. And let’s not forget Disney is a threat to the few remaining independent movie studios.

HBO Max is going to release a version of the service that is free with ads, that’s how desperate they are.

also i always see a pattern, call me crazy but for many years when we see a lot of buzz around Xbox and PlayStation is silent then comes the megatons! I could give examples but if people google they will find out that pattern repeats

or maybe I am just crazy 😜
 

longdi

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kojima is going green soon.

imo this resistance to GPU like services, bear some resemblance to sony sticking with crt far too long and for a period, their TV segment sunk deep
 

MHubert

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This is a joke right? All the large companies have some form of subscription service, but you're saying they're all wrong and it's not sustainable lol
PS+ is also a subscription service, one that has been doing good for Sony for many years, so its not about that.

Expecting Sony to release their AAA titles on psnow Day one, would be like expecting Marvel to release their DCU movies at their peak on Netflix Day one.
 

Gamerguy84

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Gamepass isn't sustainable. They have been losing money hand over fist for a while. They keep adding "value" all the time buying new shiny things to put on it and then letting it go for a dollar.

MS is throwing away billions because they can. They couldn't win in any traditional model so they are buying fans loyalty by giving them the product.

Spending billions then losing hundreds of millions doesn't equal profit. They aren't making money on any of it.

Play the tape forward a few years and people will realize they spent a lot of money for years and the second they stopped payment they didn't own a damn thing. Sure you have the option to buy but now your paying twice.

One thing is for sure arrogant MS is back full force.
 

MonarchJT

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Ok, let's take a look at your assertion that MS, one of the richest companies in the world, cannot throw money at bad business ventures.

Well, ever heard of Nokia and windows phone? It was a failure of massive proportions, losing MS billions. They did it in order to get a foothold in the mobile OS marketplace, with disastrous results.

They have a litany of failed projects: Zune, the Kin, they spent billions trying to get into ERP software only to shut it down.

I have no problem with MS btw, I use Windows at work every day. I am just able to see some facts in the marketplace, MS themselves have accepted GamePass is losing them money, while when announcing their results they have deliberately obscured their market performance. A company leading in the marketplace doesn't do this.

MS just hopes that eventually, at some point, GamePass will be so attractive that they will become Netflix and have hundreds of millions of subscribers and eventually will be able to ecke out some profit. Sony doesn't need to do this because they are making tens of billions in profit, now.

How you can't see this, honestly I don't know.
ms isn't losing money as you think and gamepass is cleaely profitable as a model i explained this 100 times and is crazy how some people still doesn't get how much profitable it is. Ms is investing like netflix did, is spending to grow the base ... in fact it have today probably 20+ millions users meanwhile the older psnow is at 2.2
 

Heisenberg007

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Am I the only one thinking that it will be more than just games? Because Sony works with HBO, Netflix. And let’s not forget Disney is a threat to the few remaining independent movie studios.

HBO Max is going to release a version of the service that is free with ads, that’s how desperate they are.

also i always see a pattern, call me crazy but for many years when we see a lot of buzz around Xbox and PlayStation is silent then comes the megatons! I could give examples but if people google they will find out that pattern repeats

or maybe I am just crazy 😜
Do share some examples though if you can 😛 saves us all a Google search
 
Mar 17, 2020
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kojima is going green soon.

imo this resistance to GPU like services, bear some resemblance to sony sticking with crt far too long and for a period, their TV segment sunk deep
All Kojima's problems started with the green. I don't think he will ever go there exclusively.
 

Heisenberg007

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ms isn't losing money as you think and gamepass is cleaely profitable as a model i explained this 100 times and is crazy how some people still doesn't get how much profitable it is. Ms is investing like netflix did, is spending to grow the base ... in fact it have today probably 20+ millions users meanwhile the older psnow is at 2.2
The growth rate of Gamepass has been phenomenal, no arguments there. But to be fair, Netflix still loses money and never makes any profit.
 

Duchess

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I'd pay £100 a year for a PlayStation Pass if it meant that I got to play Returnal, Ratchet + Clank, Forbidden West, and the rest from day one.
 

Aion002

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A game pass from Sony with first party launch titles being released on launch would probably do more harm than good to Playstation, for consumers it would be amazing, but for the company it would be terrible, same thing would be for Nintendo, their first party games sells well enough that it's probably not worth lose sales over a subscription.

However, I think that older games and deals with 3rds would be reasonable enough and would bring subscribers.


PS Nows is weird... It's not even available in many Coutries (only in 19), it's like Sony is not even trying.
 

Elios83

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Clearly behind the scenes they're working on it.
Imo the plan is to use PS+ as a base and integrate it with something like Gamepass/PSNow with a relatively small extra cost as OP is suggesting.
What they really want to avoid with this kind of service is the ramp up period with years of losses/investements until they can establish a big enough user base that has a chance to cover costs.
Basically the losses that Microsoft is absorbing right now.
If instead of starting from scratch or trying to rebrand PSNow (which in my opinion already offers great value but was simply damaged by years of bad reputation as a poor PS3 streaming-only service with Sony not doing anything about it) they try to integrate it in a service that already has 60 million of users they have more chances to reach the goal.
That does not mean that they'll have day one releases for all their new games, that is still not feasible financially but it's going to happen starting with ''minor'' releases.
What is happening with PS+ monthly games is not random.
The service went suddenly from indie level to FF7R and day one launches for a few games (Destruction All Stars, Oddworld and probably more to come). It's obvious they are experimenting with things to come.
 
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MonarchJT

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The growth rate of Gamepass has been phenomenal, no arguments there. But to be fair, Netflix still loses money and never makes any profit.
The comparison with Netflix that we use to do, is done because Netflix is the most famous all-in-one service on every platform. But it ends there. Unlike Netflix, GamePass does not deny economic entry from the sales of individual titles (physical and digital), encourages the additional spending of money through new content (dlc) or through mtx. The gamepass subscriber is more exposed to a continuous disbursement of money (voluntarily) a concept diametrically opposite to what happens on Netflix. Furthermore, we know (2020 data) that the vast majority of revenue from video game productions came from precisely from MTX and additional content and not from the sale of the single game (we are talking about more than 60% if I remember correctly)
 
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jroc74

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I just wanna see if they decide to expand Plus. Some of us have been saying this since game pass became a thing.

They already tested the waters with expanding their services with:

Allowing downloads thru PSNow
The PS Plus Collection.

PSNow never needed Plus.

They got the hard parts out the way IMO, (PS Plus was started on the PS3, so they have many years of data to go over) adding content, whan and how long, is the easy part. They just have to decide when and if its best for them to do it.

For Sony would be even more expensive than for Microsoft. Sony doesn't have infrastructure and servers of MS.

They already have a deal in place to use Azure. Not sure if its finalized but there are articles about it.


See, while fanboys wanna fanboy, they both are in the business of making money, making good business deals, relationships.
 
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GeorgPrime

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Sony don't give a dam, they have their GamePass in Playstation Now..their focus is on delivering the big-hitters for the PS5....if they wanted to do a Gamepass I'm sure it wouldn't take them aeons to do..

They asked what about Game Pass on Playstation and they answered "We have some info about it but you will hear about it a bit later"

I guess maybe digital E3?
 

Maxwell Jacob Friedman

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Jim did say they have a response for gamepass, maybe its their version of gamepass and with old playstation games as well which is why they are getting rid of the stores
 
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Azurro

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ms isn't losing money as you think and gamepass is cleaely profitable as a model i explained this 100 times and is crazy how some people still doesn't get how much profitable it is. Ms is investing like netflix did, is spending to grow the base ... in fact it have today probably 20+ millions users meanwhile the older psnow is at 2.2

It isn't profitable, show me some year end result from MS that states they have made x amount of dollars from GamePass.

On the contrary, running the service is costing them a lot of money, they have admitted to this. They just hope to get to a point where the amount of subscribers offsets the cost of the service.

It's a money hole so far, perhaps it won't be in the future but it is one now, and just because MS is throwing billions at it doesn't mean that it will ultimately be successful.
 

jroc74

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It isn't profitable, show me some year end result from MS that states they have made x amount of dollars from GamePass.

On the contrary, running the service is costing them a lot of money, they have admitted to this. They just hope to get to a point where the amount of subscribers offsets the cost of the service.

It's a money hole so far, perhaps it won't be in the future but it is one now, and just because MS is throwing billions at it doesn't mean that it will ultimately be successful.
Exactly.

There is no concrete proof of profits yet.

They are still honoring the one dollar 1:1 Gold conversion. Once they cut that off, and possibly raise the price, then we may start to hear about profits.
 
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MonarchJT

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It isn't profitable, show me some year end result from MS that states they have made x amount of dollars from GamePass.

On the contrary, running the service is costing them a lot of money, they have admitted to this. They just hope to get to a point where the amount of subscribers offsets the cost of the service.

It's a money hole so far, perhaps it won't be in the future but it is one now, and just because MS is throwing billions at it doesn't mean that it will ultimately be successful.
read this
 

yurinka

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PlayStation makes way more money than MS gaming division. They sell way more consoles, way more games and way more subscriptions. Sony's strategy is better: sell games at full price, then apply price cuts and reductions and once it doesn't sell put it into subscriptions and later give away a few of them. Regarding subscriptions, Sony with Plus+Now combined makes more money and has more subscribers than MS with GamePass console+GamePass PC+GamePass Ultimate+Gold.

AAA games cost between around 100M and 500M an in some cases it doesn't include marketing. According to a Sony guy in LinkedIn GoW 2018 generated 500M and Horizon 4000M. It doesn't make sense to give away them day one specially on download and streaming stores with monster server costs. MS does it because they are desperate after seeing they can't compete selling consoles or games, so they did an all in bet on GamePass to see if at least they can compete in subscriptions. And as of now they are still far behind Sony there too.

Gamepass strategy is a financial suicide both for the platform holder and the devs. For now, MS pays a fair amount of money to the few selected devs who put games there to compensate the lose in sales. So it should work for these devs. For the big majority of the other devs who can't put freely their games there will see less sales because these players will be playing mostly Gamepass games. In the long term MS can decrease that amount of money for devs as did Spotify, Netflix and so on specially once they had the market lead. And MS does it paying a ton of money which isn't compensated with a majority of subscribers who are there paying $1. Game subscriptions doesn't make sense for day one, they make sense for when a game already had it sales life cycle complete, so once the game doesn't sell anymore the subscription or to give away the game is ok specially to promote an upcoming sequel or DLC.
 
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Calverz

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Im just taking numbers out of my ass here, but i am pretty sure more than half of the rentpass subscribers are there because they want to play cod online and not because they want to rent games..

It would kill rentpass. People who want to play latest cod, bf, gta online would choose ps5. No one wants a monthly online bill.
What the fuck is rentpass?
 
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Fredrik

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Im just taking numbers out of my ass here, but i am pretty sure more than half of the rentpass subscribers are there because they want to play cod online and not because they want to rent games..

It would kill rentpass. People who want to play latest cod, bf, gta online would choose ps5. No one wants a monthly online bill.
Gamepass was always about having access to hundreds of games cheap. Free online is a worthless counter move. Sony needs to have their AAA exclusives on the service day 1. That’s when I would jump in.
 
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yurinka

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For Sony would be even more expensive than for Microsoft. Sony doesn't have infrastructure and servers of MS.
Both Sony and MS hire data centers, who are the same who also work for Amazon AWS and the other clouds. But it's true, considering the number of consoles sold and active players the PSN server infrastructure must be bigger and more expensive.
 
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Sony will never reach PC gamers with PS Now, you're forced to use a controller, no native games. PC gamers prefer higher fidelity and frame rate.

Xbox Game Pass just works, for one is Xbox Game Pass for PC and Xbox Game Pass for consoles are 2 seperate subscriptions. Purchase the Ultimate version to combined them into one that includes others perks as well.

Cloud saves are completely free. They should never hide this behind a paywall.
 

MonarchJT

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PlayStation makes way more money than MS gaming division. They sell way more consoles, way more games and way more subscriptions. Sony's strategy is better: sell games at full price, then apply price cuts and reductions and once it doesn't sell put it into subscriptions and later give away a few of them. Regarding subscriptions, Sony with Plus+Now combined makes more money and has more subscribers than MS with GamePass console+GamePass PC+GamePass Ultimate+Gold.

AAA games cost between around 100M and 500M an in some cases it doesn't include marketing. According to a Sony guy in LinkedIn GoW 2018 generated 500M and Horizon 4000M. It doesn't make sense to give away them day one specially on download and streaming stores with monster server costs. MS does it because they are desperate after seeing they can't compete selling consoles or games, so they did an all in bet on GamePass to see if at least they can compete in subscriptions. And as of now they are still far behind Sony there too.

Gamepass strategy is a financial suicide both for the platform holder and the devs. For now, MS pays a fair amount of money to the few selected devs who put games there to compensate the lose in sales. So it should work for these devs. For the big majority of the other devs who can't put freely their games there will see less sales because these players will be playing mostly Gamepass games. In the long term MS can decrease that amount of money for devs as did Spotify, Netflix and so on specially once they had the market lead. And MS does it paying a ton of money which isn't compensated with a majority of subscribers who are there paying $1. Game subscriptions doesn't make sense for day one, they make sense for when a game already had it sales life cycle complete, so once the game doesn't sell anymore the subscription or to give away the game is ok specially to promote an upcoming sequel or DLC.
so much ignorance in just one post
 

Azurro

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I read it, it doesn't contradict anything I'm saying. It's a huge article just to say it's a moneyhole so far, it just hopes to gain a lot of users in the future, which is a big if.

Like I said, journalists want to write about something different and make things seem exciting, when the prospect of the Xbox's shrinking userbase against PS while simultaneously displacing Steam as the go to application on PC is wishful thinking imo.

Then they go with silly cloud based gaming ideas on how maybe that can. It's a stupid idea, just ask Google how that went for them. Nobody wants to spend their monthly cellphone bandwidth on a few hours of gaming and carry around a controller in order to have a decent experience.

In any case, it's a lot of big IFs, which again, doesn't contradict what I'm saying, it's an unsustainable service that depends on displacing the premier PC game service, a shrinking Xbox userbase and a pie in the sky cloud based gaming future, while they spend billions in the process.

Good luck with that.
 
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Old Empire.

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For Sony would be even more expensive than for Microsoft. Sony doesn't have infrastructure and servers of MS.

That's not true anymore. Fact is PS Now use Microsoft Azure servers, they signed a deal a year or two ago.. Sony can easily now provide a game pass like service for its fans. Microsoft data centers all around the world in places Sony sells the PS5.

Sony doesn't have the same revenue stream as Microsoft, to splash the cash around.
 
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v_iHuGi

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TIER 1 should´ve Now merged with Plus + Select first party content (Returnal, Ratchet etc...)

God of War and the likes remain Full Price or are added later.

  • Tier 1 ($30 per year): Online multiplayer + Cloud storage + some freebies + same access to discounts,
  • Tier 2 ($120 per year): Online multiplayer + Cloud Storage + PS Now built in (no separate app anymore) + Select 1st/3rd party content, excluding some big budget productions.
-> Remove Plus Collection, would be added to PS NOW and PS NOW name would simply be PS Plus Platinum

So, therefore:

Tier 1 - PlayStation Plus
Tier 2 - PlayStation Plus Platinum

Note: Ps Plus list of free monthly games would completely go away, these games would still arrive but they´re now part of the service.
 

MonarchJT

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I read it, it doesn't contradict anything I'm saying. It's a huge article just to say it's a moneyhole so far, it just hopes to gain a lot of users in the future, which is a big if.

Like I said, journalists want to write about something different and make things seem exciting, when the prospect of the Xbox's shrinking userbase against PS while simultaneously displacing Steam as the go to application on PC is wishful thinking imo.

Then they go with silly cloud based gaming ideas on how maybe that can. It's a stupid idea, just ask Google how that went for them. Nobody wants to spend their monthly cellphone bandwidth on a few hours of gaming and carry around a controller in order to have a decent experience.

In any case, it's a lot of big IFs, which again, doesn't contradict what I'm saying, it's an unsustainable service that depends on displacing the premier PC game service, a shrinking Xbox userbase and a pie in the sky cloud based gaming future, while they spend billions in the process.

Good luck with that.
wtf what ?? lol is the opposite explains how and why it works economically.
 

Fbh

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There's always the question of sustainable vs actually more profitable than their current model.
I mean if Sony makes some gamepass type service, with exclusives on day 1, without changing the focus of their first party line up (10-40 hours single player games with great production values) and allowing me to play the next God of War, Horizon, Naughty Dog game, etc for $10 then, sure, bring it on.

I think realistically they'll probably take the Disney+ approach. Big AAA games will have a premium launch period (regular $70 release) and will eventually come to the subscription service after several months.
 
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Ev1L AuRoN

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so when Sony will do it will be sustainable isn't it? :) We've all been saying this for over a year now gamepass is revolutionizing the video game business and it's so convenient (for users) that it's just silly not to accept it. If then whoever launches the service will be able to have 60/80 million users. it will earn so much that no one will want to return to the previous business anymore. Sony will copy gamepass is just a question of when not of if. Jimbo says what he has to say at the moment will change tone when will launch their own gamepass service
If the gamepass became the norm, what will happen to the big productions? This model is enough to fund such projects? Or it will be the end of the AAA market? If Sony follow suit and launch their gamepass competitor, I think one smart way to continue to fund the triple A business is simply selling these games for a year before putting them on the service. I know Microsoft don't do it like that but let's be real here, Microsoft don't have the same quality or sales, and for the few games that do worth full price, Microsoft is more than willing to sacrifice their profit in order to gain market share.
 
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Flutta

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I hope this rentpass thing never becomes the ”standard”. Owneship is still and will always be kung.
 
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RAIDEN1

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They asked what about Game Pass on Playstation and they answered "We have some info about it but you will hear about it a bit later"

I guess maybe digital E3?
Imagine at E3 they said: We come with no ordinary GamePass, instead we know what it means by the Playstation Legacy, so here at Sony we've decided we are going to make the PS1 and PS2 catalogue available to our customers, relive the glory days of Ridge Racer and Porsche Challenge experience Motostorm in 4k glory...
 
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Ev1L AuRoN

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"GamePass isn't sustainable" :messenger_tears_of_joy:
The question is. Can it sustain tripple A games? With old catalog sure, but how about Halo Infinite? Rumored to cost 500kk, AAA cost hovering around 100kk. How many subscribers are needed to cover that?

I'm not against gamepass, I think is a fantastic service. But I don't want it to become the model for all the industry if it means give up on the AAA's. If somehow Sony could maintain their exceptional output of great games on a gamepass like service I'll be in heaven.
 
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ReBurn

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Why would we assume that 25 million people pay Sony over a hundred bucks a year for a tier 2 subscription in your plan? Which playstation gamers are these? PS4 owners?
 

DonkeyKong

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Let’s be honest, if gamepass proves to be a money spinner for MS (we don’t know yet for sure) Sony will launch something similar to compete with it
 

odhiex

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This is actually a good read.

Gamepass is a "risky" business, but it is a risk worth taking for a company as big as Microsoft.

Getting a lot of staying (let's say 50+ million) subscribers is not an easy task. Even with 110+ million PS4 consoles, Sony could only get (so far) a third of it's customers paying for PS+, with an online play being mandatory for non F2P games.

Microsoft might have the advantage to pull this one off, with it's lot of $$$ and Azure. Sony is better doing what they (could) do best, and play the wait and see approach.
 
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