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[Talkin Hawkin]

I wouldn't say he's crying so much as just stating the obvious. People have seen VR. They've done the whole try it for free kiosks at stores everywhere. They've advertised it as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Facebook has thrown billions of dollars into it, and even changed their parent company name to meta. Yet every single indication is that VR will never be anything more than a niche product. And that's assuming all these companies currently losing money on it keep producing them.

VR/AR is the future of connectivity, computing, gaming and media consumption. Just like in star trek where they talked into a handheld piece of plastic that had loads of information on it - a prediction of smart phones, so to does our modern media feature some kind of headset, head band or glasses that display/overlay information.

I'm not sure about your claim that people have seen or tried VR. I don't know of any free kiosks set up where people have been able to try it, but YMMV. A good bunch of my gaming friends haven't tried it and some a reluctant to do so. They never give real reasons other than "I don't want to/it's not for me".

 

[Astray]

Cost is the number 1 issue with VR adoption, you not only need to have a powerful enough gaming console/PC, you also need to buy the games AND a VR headset AND make sure you have planned out a big enough place to make sure you will have a good experience.

That's simply not happening at +%90 of households.

 

[Talkin Hawkin]

Cost is the number 1 issue with VR adoption, you not only need to have a powerful enough gaming console/PC, you also need to buy the games AND a VR headset AND make sure you have planned out a big enough place to make sure you will have a good experience.

That's simply not happening at +%90 of households.

Only if those households are in Uganda

People shell out £100+ a month for Sky, £75+ a month for subs like netflix, amazon prime, £50+ a month on phones and in the UK it is normal for people to spend £400+ a month on a car.

Not to mention buying a new bloody Iphone every year. The cost is not the reason people don't play VR.

Plop a VR2 or high-end PC headset on 100 million normies and you will have 70 million new VR players

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Disagree as there are already some mass market and core titles like Beat Sabre and Half Life that would shift units but unfortunately companies need to hit sub $300 to really appeal to that market and currently it’s around $1000 for a PS5 and PSVR2.

You know it wouldn’t surprise me if Nintendo took the new Nvidia Drake chip, severely down clocked it for battery life, used a 1080p version of their OLED screen, used more advance joycons and created a VR pack similar to the Meta Quest for $399. An all in one VR device with no cables, at that price and with a VR Mario and Mario Kart at launch would sell tens of millions of units.

The issue for Nintendo (much like Sony) would be they’d be going back to splitting their development bandwidth into two separate teams but this time it would be standard and VR instead of standard and portable. VR does seem very Nintendo though because it provides “new ways to play” their classic franchises and that seems to be what they’re all about.

 

[Unknown?]

Alyx, Astrobot, or Beat Saber are not must-play. They are great but don't be ridiculous. There is no way anyone can believe that those games are must-play for such expensive hardware.

Must-play is like stuff Doom, Super Mario 64, Half-Life or Halo.

It's gonna come to VR eventually, but it's not there yet.

Astrobot is the Mario 64 of VR.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Key difference is cars/vehicles are must haves for getting from point A to point B on your own (freedom with the family) with a ton more benefits than owning a smelly horse or waiting for a horse drawn carriage to ride someone somewhere at 5 mph.

VR is not a must have. And it's an additional purchase to go with starting hardware. And for some people it even gives them headaches. The only benefit it has is whatever value a gamer puts into VR views and motion controls. The rest of it is worse than standard gaming.

You’re thinking in the NOW

What I’m pointing at is that it’s inevitable that VR will have its huge adoption wave. Who knows what it will be, it might be social, form factor where it becomes like glasses, contact lenses, eye implants.. Imagine how the world evolved in the last 50 years in tech? You might be working in an environment where computer screens are completely antique and the employer expects you to have implants to build in AR complex structures that our AI overlords designed. Automated cars? Boring as fuck I imagine, might as well put on some VR in my implants to watch a movie on a 500 inch virtual screen. Not thinking it’s happening in next 50 years? Ok, 100? 200? 500? The fuck we know as of NOW?

But Buggy Loop! That’s too many years! First steam powered vehicule was invented in 1679. First internal combustion engine car was in 1885.

And of course, peoples not changing that much since then, there were bitches too back then that preferred horses

https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/01/get-horse-americas-skepticism-toward-first-automobiles/

Saying that VR won’t become the norm is short sighted. I’m not saying it’s exactly like cars, as gaming is NOT a necessity, what I’m saying is that thinking VR won’t ever have its moment is akin to thinking cars won’t happen. Like thinking Yahoo is a good investment after Google came. Just wrong.

 

[Davevil]

Reggie out of touch

 

[just_jr]

in the end of the day all people want is to sit and play good games comfortably without having to exercise or making exagerated movements with their hands. This is why kinect, VR, PSMove are just doomed to be niche or something to show your friends when they visit you

 

[hemo memo]

I agree with Reggie for once.

 

[RaZoR No1]

VR is not as comfy as normal gaming and therfore never replace it.
You need the right space to play alot of games and most of the time it is a physical activity.
+
The price barrier is still too high (Quest 2 tried to fix it, but it is still a niche eco system with 300€+ starting point)

VR will probably only take off, if we get headsets like Sword Art Online, where our mind deep dives into the world, where we have no physical limits.

 

[SHA]

He's the sales guy, he'll always talk about sales , not about the experience, it's his topic.

 

[Henry Panic]

Only if those households are in Uganda

People shell out £100+ a month for Sky, £75+ a month for subs like netflix, amazon prime, £50+ a month on phones and in the UK it is normal for people to spend £400+ a month on a car.

Not to mention buying a new bloody Iphone every year. The cost is not the reason people don't play VR.

Plop a VR2 or high-end PC headset on 100 million normies and you will have 70 million new VR players

Lol most people are on payment plans for their iPhones, and despite regional ignorance Uganda has a higher rate by population of people buying iPhones at MSRP.

There are already some very good draws to VR. Yes we have Beat Saber and Alyx. What it needs for mainstream adoption is lower cost and that Mario Bros. 1 / Wii Sports moment. In VR's current form, I think this is still quite a ways off.

SMB was given away for free and so was Wii Sports. Meta hasn't done that with Best Saber for a reason: they aren't making profit anywhere else.

Alyx, Astrobot, or Beat Saber are not must-play. They are great but don't be ridiculous. There is no way anyone can believe that those games are must-play for such expensive hardware.

Must-play is like stuff Doom, Super Mario 64, Half-Life or Halo.

It's gonna come to VR eventually, but it's not there yet.

None of those games sold systems except Halo on their own. You're assuming that because of their perceived popularity.

Beat Saber is already a popular game that's probably sold over 6M copies by now, and helped several other headsets.

The problem is there sre only so many people that game can reach. It was originally released in 2019, even before the headset it sold the most on. It was developed with outdated technology with minimal graphics, and the same tech demo gameplay people complain about.

It was a fun experience in VR, but didn't show why someone's needed to purchase a headset.

That is why Bear Saber can't be another 10M seller by itself. It needed to be on multiple platforms to reach it's current number!

 

[Three]

Consoles have what 5% global penetration rate? I wouldn't even consider 1.7% bad. Ofcourse compared to "games" for every device out there including VR, Console, PC, TV and mobile these are low.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

And i'll add, until it can provide a sick free experience for everybody.

 

[BlackTron]

SMB was given away for free and so was Wii Sports. Meta hasn't done that with Best Saber for a reason: they aren't making profit anywhere else.

I don't think being given away for free or bundled is necessarily that important. It could be important, but doesn't have to be.

Beat Saber is not SMB1, it's Pong or Pitfall. Sure it's great, it sold, people like it, and it made a great case for the medium. I'm talking about lightning in a bottle paired with cheap hardware that a kid can easily use on their own. Imagine if there was some kind of Nintendo or Apple style VR killer app, it would make Beat Saber and Alyx look like baby steps on VR's true path.

A complete rehaul may be necessary that we might find crazy at first glance, or even going backwards. For example people balked when Steve Jobs removed the physical keyboard from phones, when challenged on a pure touch-screen phone he asserted people "will learn". I think the ultimate form of VR that will ever see mass adoption will be quite different and many will be surprised by what form it takes, and what software will make it a must-have.

 

[mcjmetroid]

The main thing is the size of the device. For VR to ever become mainstream the device needs to be like a pair of glasses like a 3D movie or whatever.

The general public will never make more of an effort than this.

 

[TLZ]

No. It's not the game. It's the hardware still. Even if there was a super must play, the hardware isn't a simple pick up and play. Until it becomes that it'll stay niche.

 

[Spukc]

Ahem...

Thanks for your input Reggie.

We're on the verge of having this form factor in the next 3-4 years at an affordable price

VR ain't ever dying. It's like saying that cars will not take off because those early ones with steam engines were more trouble than horses. We're going VR/AR inevitably. It's a question of when.

Laugh all you want but nintendo VR had some really cool concept games.

I showed again how much ahead nintendo is in gameplay.

 

[Killer8]

Plenty of must play experiences already for VR.

The barrier to entry is and probably always will be price.

 

[Azelover]

It's not the right time yet. But somebody has to develop the tech. It aint gonna happen if they don't experiment.

 

[Elder Legend]

While I do believe Half Life Alyx is a must play game. I cannot justify spending 1K on Vakve Index just to play it. Yes, I amnaware you can play it on the quest 2, but my issue is I want to experience that game with the best device possible and I heard tracking is better in Valve Index.

 

[Buggy Loop]

While I do believe Half Life Alyx is a must play game. I cannot justify spending 1K on Vakve Index just to play it. Yes, I amnaware you can play it on the quest 2, but my issue is I want to experience that game with the best device possible and I heard tracking is better in Valve Index.

Best experience is Half Life Alyx untethered. Tracking on Quest 2 is near flawless. On 2nd run of Half Life Alyx. Air link also got way better than first iteration.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It needed more cardboard.

Oh wait.

This is a Captain Obvious statement, but it will always remain a slow burn niche that will take years to grow. Makers know this, and have commented about it for years now.

 

[Henry Panic]

Beat Saber is not SMB1, it's Pong or Pitfall. Sure it's great, it sold, people like it,

Neither of those games were given away for free on mass. You're missing the point a large part of SMB sales numbers is because it was given away for years, I know you're trying to use it as an example of a system moving killer app, but it doesn't work without brining up how it was handed out. Same with Wii Sports. Though to Wii Sports credit it sold consoles from the start while SMB sales increased with NES hardware sales often moved by other games.

A complete rehaul may be necessary that we might find crazy at first glance, or even going backwards. For example people balked when Steve Jobs removed the physical keyboard from phones, when challenged on a pure touch-screen phone he asserted people "will learn". I think the ultimate form of VR that will ever see mass adoption will be quite different and many will be surprised by what form it takes, and what software will make it a must-have.

Every smartphone at the time not Palm or Blackberry didn't have a physical keyboard. But mainstream press was into Sidekicks and tech journalism wasn't too common yet online in reach.

I get your overall point, but I think the real problem is never being discussed. VR isn't an industry where there's enough accessibility for consumers to choose, or grow across multiple devices.

We had 3 years of one headset having 90% of the sales. Before that we had one headset also have 90% of the sales until it died, then handed the torch to PSVR who also had 90% of the sales until Quest, rinse repeat.

There isn't an Xbox-Nintendo-Sony dynamic here like in video games.

Or a Samsung-Sony-Sharp-Vizio-LG dynamic like in TV.

The industry only supports one major headset at a time. Whoever can hold consumers attention long enough is the one everyone goes to because content will hecome limited everywhere else during that 1 headsets run, and prices are too high and the size is too small for consumers to split across more than 1 device.

A killer app game on one headset would only make the problem worse. There would have to be multiple killer apps on several headsets to see real improvement.

I don't see that happening.

 

[AlphaMale]

Racing Games are the must-play experience in VR!

 

[BlackTron]

Neither of those games were given away for free on mass. You're missing the point a large part of SMB sales numbers is because it was given away for years, I know you're trying to use it as an example of a system moving killer app, but it doesn't work without brining up how it was handed out. Same with Wii Sports. Though to Wii Sports credit it sold consoles from the start while SMB sales increased with NES hardware sales often moved by other games.

I'm not sure how you can say I am missing the point when I clearly stated I do not think it is necessarily important to be bundled, but it CAN be important. There is no way this went over my head because I specifically addressed it. Whether it is important or not will depend on many variables of the time we cannot foresee. I think it was a good move to bundle the Genesis with Sonic 1, but what was REALLY important was Sonic 1 existing. If they knocked the price down and made you buy it separately, Sonic would still be a massive character.

On the other hand I think packing Wii Sports with Wii for $250 total was KILLER. The system and software were meant to be joined at the hip and the strategy paid off.

But my point was never to point at sales numbers to prove the strength of these titles. My point was just examples of titles that move systems. Sure people bought NES for games other than Mario, but I also bought a Wii for Twilight Princess, not Wii Sports. There's no way to fully separate the effects here, but I think it's clear that Mario 1 and Wii Sports were megaton games that GREATLY catapulted the success of their platforms. I'm just saying this hardware/software combo for VR mass adoption hasn't arrived yet.

Every smartphone at the time not Palm or Blackberry didn't have a physical keyboard. But mainstream press was into Sidekicks and tech journalism wasn't too common yet online in reach.

I shouldn't have said physical full keyboard, what I meant was having any buttons at all, even a numpad. Phones still had buttons back then, and LOTS of average customers, myself and friends included, had some sort of funky phone design with a keyboard that slid or folded out like the Droid or LG Env. Apple massively disrupted the market with the iPhone 1 and all that went away overnight, except for the Blackberry type stuff you mentioned. The key here is that the iPhone, a smartphone, utterly replaced "normal" phones as a customer choice almost immediately, and everyone was willing to give up their physical inputs for a pure touch screen device in a way that shocked every other phone manufacturer. I'm just saying, a similarly unexpected moment is likely in store for for VR before it REALLY takes off.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I don’t think it has anything to do with having a “must have” game or experience, because there’s already some excellent examples out there.
It’s just the nature of the accessory being single user focused and cut off from everyone else that’s off putting. Throw in a very high price of entry and it’s really no wonder why VR isn’t exploding.

Quest is the closest we’ll come to a large penetration into the mainstream given it’s a device that doesn’t need anything additional to get playing.

 

[Son_of_Zardoz]

It needed more cardboard.

Oh wait.

This is a Captain Obvious statement, but it will always remain a slow burn niche that will take years to grow. Makers know this, and have commented about it for years now.

Agree--as much as I love VR it's going to take much more time. Cool to see more innovation in the pipeline though. I don't mind it being wired, just want a more comfortable, super high resolution headset but I know that I'm in the minority (I don't want to give up all the power from PC).

 

[Schmendrick]

single user focused, bulky, rather expensive, sickness inducing for a lot of people, needs a lot of space comparably and needs specialized software to work.

I don`t see VR ever taking off outside of professional use (engineering or 3d modeling comes to mind f.e.)

Plop a VR2 or high-end PC headset on 100 million normies and you will have 70 million new VR players

For a week or 2 until the novelty factor wears off and the headset is permanently banished to the cabinet. Been there, done that.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Man whenever someone in the industry or just people in general say things like this they feel like out of touch, or living in the past with tech.

VR is incredible now, and it's improving very quickly with every iteration. There's hurtles like price point, size....etc.

The problem isn't games, there are many that were some of my favorite releases around the time they came out.

 

[64bitmodels]

- VR gaming using wrist controllers to simulate grabbing doesn't even make sense. You arent even grabbing like a NES Power Glove. You're pressing buttons to pick something up. Make the control scheme resemble an actual glove with sensors and it'll make more sense

i think haptic gloves should be standard when it comes to VR, but we're getting there!

 

[SantaC]

wasnt that RE7?

 

[poppabk]

It's the barrier to entry and the difficulty advertising that is holding it back.
Smaller, lighter, cheaper, and more powerful headsets with better displays will come with time. Full color undistorted pass thru is well on its way.
The advertising is still kind of a bitch though, you are basically stuck with a 2D image that doesn't really convey what you see.

 

[EN250]

Aside from the must have games, it also needs to be something not looking like a bicycle helmet, I know it's an aesthetic complain, but the less bulky it looks, the better chances it has to be seen as something easy and comfortable to pick and use

 

[Adam_802]

Laughs in Half-Life Alyx.


Though tbf, Alyx is probably 10 years ahead of the industry.

 

[gimz]

VR is not a game console. It’s a new medium tech that play games. Like a cell phone

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

For it to become less niche it should be less intrusive.

 

[NickFire]

For me personally the must play experience has arrived (GT7). I just can't splurge that much on myself in this current economy without feeling bad at the moment.

 

[mckmas8808]

I hate this response. People act like niche is bad. At what percentage does VR need to occupy before it's not called niche? 10%? 30%? It's all stupid. The better question is, is VR sustainable and can it make a profit for enough companies to continue to elevate the VR\AR space?

Who cares if it's niche? That should never be the question or the goal right now.

 

[mckmas8808]

Laugh all you want but nintendo VR had some really cool concept games.

I showed again how much ahead nintendo is in gameplay.

Man that stuff was WACK!!!! Nintendo has done nothing for the VR space. There are 100 other things that have been out way better than anything Nintendo has ever done in this space. Stop tripping!

 

[Tams]

The only way I can see VR really taking off is if something like the Switch gets some VR glasses that are almost like normal glasses at less than 300 pounds/euros/dollars. So a console with detachable controllers and the glasses would all in be around 600.

 

[Shut0wen]

It will only be niche until a fully fledge game comes out for it and not something that is no longer then 4 hours long, yes alyx looks amazing but 1 game for abit of tech that costs 100s of pounds is no for a massive majority of people

 

[Talkin Hawkin]

For a week or 2 until the novelty factor wears off and the headset is permanently banished to the cabinet. Been there, done that.

You speak on behalf of 70 million players?

Those 120+ million Wiis, 100+ million PS2s were not permanently banished after 2 weeks.

 

[brian0057]

You speak on behalf of 70 million players?

Those 120+ million Wiis, 100+ million PS2s were not permanently banished after 2 weeks.

Mostly because the Wii and the PS2 had actual games worth playing.

 

[Minsc]

The main thing is the size of the device. For VR to ever become mainstream the device needs to be like a pair of glasses like a 3D movie or whatever.

The general public will never make more of an effort than this.

So it needs to become like something that failed - 3D glasses? Wouldn't becoming like 3D glasses just be a failure like 3D movies? Maybe the average gamer simply rejects any type of 3D even if it was free and totally effortless? Who knows.

 

[Talkin Hawkin]

Mostly because the Wii and the PS2 had actual games worth playing.

The wii sold on 1 game. The PS2 was so popular because it was a cheap DVD player. That's not to take anything away from Sony, but that's the main reason the PS2 sold so many units.

VR has plenty of games. I would argue it has a more diverse line up of titles than modern consoles. The idea that it has no games worth playing, while subjective, is dismissive at best and a flat-out fabrication at worst.

 

[Guerilla Munch]

Nintendo's art style would transfer perfectly into VR and they've got tight gameplay mechanics down to a science. It's funny because they're the company most able to create must play VR games but they probably never will, at least not anytime soon.

Imagine AstroBot but it's Mario instead. Imagine Mario Kart VR. Willickers.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

I have played these games in the past 4 years and they were all amazing experiences, surpassing most flat screen games imo
I still think its about price and size of the device

HL Alyx
Alien Isolation
HL & HL2 VR
Lone Echo 1 & 2
Torn
Red Matter 1 & 2
Asguards Wrath
Boneworks & Bonelabs
Moss 1&2
Stormland
Obduction & Myst
Doom3 vr
Hubris
Proze
Seeking Dawn
The Walking Dead
Wanderer

I had no idea Alien Isolation and Doom 3 were VR-compatible. That's tempting. Maybe we need more awareness.

 

[Spukc]

Man that stuff was WACK!!!! Nintendo has done nothing for the VR space. There are 100 other things that have been out way better than anything Nintendo has ever done in this space. Stop tripping!

nah some real fun gameplay concepts. esp with all the cardboard stuff the immersion was way better then other vr headsets, because of this.
have you even played it? Friends i know that are also in vr where plesently surprised how nintendo made something so lowtech work.

And no it's not better then alyx ffs

 

[Billbofet]

I love VR, but it's expensive, isolating, and uncomfortable for long stretches. That is what holds it back. Price most of all.
I have had so many friends come over and after I show them something like Vader Immortal or Beat Sabre, they are totally in!!!!......until they hear the price of entry.
Plus, honestly it is a PITA to set up where I just almost always select a PS5 or XB game instead.
Course, I'm so lazy I won't even put a disc in and will just play what's already in the drive on my console - but I think most people are the same way.