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PlayStation Plus Game Streaming vs Xbox xCloud: Image Quality/Lag Face-Off

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Unfortunately, this is so true.

Despite their unfathomable wealth, Microsoft has never made a product that I liked. There was/is ALWAYS a better alternative on the market.
  • Windows phones? Android.
  • Xbox? PlayStation.
  • Windows? OSX.
  • Surface? Macbooks.
  • Teams? Zoom.
  • Office? Google Suite (though Excel is more powerful)
  • One Drive? Google Drive
  • xCloud? PS Plus Streaming
  • Mixer? Twitch.
We can go on and on.
Been wondering where youve been.

A lot of Sony and tech industry layoff/corporate kinds of threads the past 2-3 days. And the two biggest threads youve been in lately is this one and a thread about TMNT.
 
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T0minator

Member
Of course PS Plus is better with Cloud...
2j2A0Ll.jpg
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
The biggest news to me from this is that you can stream games that you own but are not part of ps plus catalogue. I had no idea.
The interesting thing to me about this (from a marketing POV) and seeing how both companies handle announcements/delivery, was the timeline of these features.
  • Xbox announced a long time ago that soon, Xbox gamers will be able to stream games they own. They even gave a rough timeline, but they never launched the feature. That launch period went by, and Xbox never even acknowledged the delay.
  • PlayStation never announced such a feature, but they one day just released it. PS gamers could now stream games they owned, outside of the PS+ Catalog.
  • Xbox still doesn't have this feature. A few weeks ago, Phil Spencer gave another timeline -- that they will launch this feature "in 2024."
 
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DF tried it in Europe, right? I’ve tried it here in the U.S. and it worked great. I also prefer the lower latency of Xcloud. If I want the best graphics, I will just download. For a quick try out or fast play session, I’ll use Xcloud. Kudos to Sony for not cheeping out on the bandwidth… I wonder if they will when the service grows? HBO Max just sent me an email saying they were only going to send at 1080p…

I wonder if this is a European thing or if I just got lucky the few times I’ve tried it. I’ve genuinely never had a bad experience with it. It even works great on my phone.
 

Zathalus

Member
DF tried it in Europe, right? I’ve tried it here in the U.S. and it worked great. I also prefer the lower latency of Xcloud. If I want the best graphics, I will just download. For a quick try out or fast play session, I’ll use Xcloud. Kudos to Sony for not cheeping out on the bandwidth… I wonder if they will when the service grows? HBO Max just sent me an email saying they were only going to send at 1080p…

I wonder if this is a European thing or if I just got lucky the few times I’ve tried it. I’ve genuinely never had a bad experience with it. It even works great on my phone.
I wouldn't claim with any certainty that Xcloud has less latency. We have no idea about the specifics of the test such as distance from the datacenter and what peering his ISP uses. Even if everything was the same you are talking about a difference of less then 10ms.
 

Bojji

Member
DF tried it in Europe, right? I’ve tried it here in the U.S. and it worked great. I also prefer the lower latency of Xcloud. If I want the best graphics, I will just download. For a quick try out or fast play session, I’ll use Xcloud. Kudos to Sony for not cheeping out on the bandwidth… I wonder if they will when the service grows? HBO Max just sent me an email saying they were only going to send at 1080p…

I wonder if this is a European thing or if I just got lucky the few times I’ve tried it. I’ve genuinely never had a bad experience with it. It even works great on my phone.

Stream is 1080p locked and running on series s (sometimes lower than 1080p resolutions) so it won't look that much better no matter the location. 4k option on ps will always win.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Been wondering where youve been.

A lot of Sony and tech industry layoff/corporate kinds of threads the past 2-3 days. And the two biggest threads youve been in lately is this one and a thread about TMNT.
Thread detail attempt. Can you cover your doomsday predictions on HD2 while you are at it ;)? No? Well, stop derailing this thread or address the topic… but then you need to deal with again the PR (power of Xcloud, we invented Azure we cannot be beaten, etc…) and the reality (game streaming quality is far from games running locally and worse than the PS Now service xbox propaganda crapped on).
 
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Drell

Member
I wouldn't claim with any certainty that Xcloud has less latency. We have no idea about the specifics of the test such as distance from the datacenter and what peering his ISP uses. Even if everything was the same you are talking about a difference of less then 10ms.
Also 45 ms is still pretty bad input lag. And so even if MS "wins" here, I'd rather have a better image quality and play something not too reliant on split second reflexes. These 10 ms advantage aren't worth it.
 
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Been wondering where youve been.

A lot of Sony and tech industry layoff/corporate kinds of threads the past 2-3 days. And the two biggest threads youve been in lately is this one and a thread about TMNT.

I think we should all stick with the thread topic which is a comparison of the two streaming services.

I personally find it interesting the differences between the two. Given the fact that Microsoft has a huge cloud service its interesting to see how a smaller company is able to compete with them in terms of streaming. Its a pretty interesting comparison to say the least and shows how the technology between the two differs.

I tried streaming a couple of times but it never really compares well to playing a game natively. It's nice that it's good enough to be an option for some people. For me it's not at a level that I would like at the moment but that can change as improvements are made.
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
Heh, watching warriors fighting over which slop taste better is kinda entertaining.

Streaming will be better once AI processing is happening in the front end, but at that time it might be redundant anyway.
 
How do you explain the CPU usage? MS isn't telling us something.
I imagine it's being clever with how cpu resource is managed. We use lots of virtual servers at work so I see the technology in action. Not all software is hammering the cpu at all times and resources are shared dynamically as needed. Some games will be hogging cpu so they will be on servers that also run games that are cpu light.
 

StueyDuck

Member
O


PS5 cloud gaming runs PS5 versions of games while Xbox cloud gaming uses virtualized Series S hardware.

PS5 cloud input lag difference:

nEtMvMY.jpg


Xbox has lower input lag:

LAOl1Yk.jpg




But way worse image quality

cJKseUb.jpg
6hvv9dE.jpg

The only issue with these sorts of comparisons is that there really is so much external issues that could play a role.

What is your ISP doing, are you literally equidistant to both server farms, even down to the channel the device is on etc...

🤷‍♂️ But hey it's better than no comparison I guess.
 

eerik9000

Member
A bit disappointing that DF did this reporting based only on one guy in the UK, while they have folks living in Germany and even the USA. They very passingly mentioned that cloud gaming will always be dependent on your and the server location, so it would have been nice to see the from at least a couple of other locations as well, especially for latency.
 

Elios83

Member
Microsoft continues to be all talk but in the end they underdeliver on all fronts.
I still remember people claiming it would be impossible for Sony to compete in cloud because they have to rent the infrastructure while Microsoft has Azure, that Sony was still using a network of PS3 duct taped together and bla bla. That the reason of the XSX shortages was Microsoft focusing on building modern blades :messenger_grinning_sweat:

With this being said cloud technology is viable for slow paced games but it's still far far away from local in all other genres.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Who the fuck prefers Google Suite and Google Drive over Office 365 and OneDrive? The products aren't even remotely comparable.

Same for Zoom over Teams. Teams is way better for work, Zoom is just for one thing.

I'll also go ahead and add that OSX over Windows is a laughable thing. Linux for people who talk specifically about gaming I can get, but OSX over Windows, come on.

Additionally, and this is just for Heisenberg007 Heisenberg007

No one uses OSX where we're from 🇵🇰, why u always lyiinnnn :p


Microsoft continues to be all talk but in the end they underdeliver on all fronts.
I still remember people claiming it would be impossible for Sony to compete in cloud because they have to rent the infrastructure while Microsoft has Azure, that Sony was still using a network of PS3 duct taped together and bla bla. That the reason of the XSX shortages was Microsoft focusing on building modern blades :messenger_grinning_sweat:

With this being said cloud technology is viable for slow paced games but it's still far far away from local in all other genres.


Sony partnered with MS for Azure for cloud stuff.

The priorities and scope are completely different, xcloud is meant to be usable on any device, mobile etc included and doesn't do Series X versions, but Series S versions. Sony's streaming for PS5 games is only available on the PS5 console itself AFAIK.
 
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Three

Member
I wouldn't claim with any certainty that Xcloud has less latency. We have no idea about the specifics of the test such as distance from the datacenter and what peering his ISP uses. Even if everything was the same you are talking about a difference of less then 10ms.
The less than 10ms difference can be somewhat accounted for by quicker more shitty encoder quality and lower res but you're right.
Yes & I'm not sure why they haven't done this locally letting people stream to 4 devices that's a good selling point of the kids can stream to different devices at the same time.
A single SX can virtualize 4 SS instances? impressive in itself but not good for comparisons like this, I suppose.
Watch the video, it is on SX hardware already. They use the hardware to virtualize four SS instances

Where are people getting this idea from? Again there is no confirmation that it virtualizes 4 Series S systems. The example MS gave was that a custom Series X SoC can virtualize 4 One S systems. Your local machine wouldn't be able to either because it doesn't have the RAM.
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Same for Zoom over Teams. Teams is way better for work, Zoom is just for one thing.

I'll also go ahead and add that OSX over Windows is a laughable thing. Linux for people who talk specifically about gaming I can get, but OSX over Windows, come on.

Additionally, and this is just for Heisenberg007 Heisenberg007

No one uses OSX where we're from 🇵🇰, why u always lyiinnnn :p
Nah, man. Shifted from Windows to OSX 10 years ago and have never looked back.

I've Macbooks and Macs in my home for work. I also use iPhone over Android as I prefer iOS. For PC gaming, I use Linux. And for console gaming, PS5.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Latency looks brutal on PlayStation. Why is the base latency even wired so high? That seems off.
"Brutal?"

It's only a 10 ms difference for Digital Foundry. Much less than 1 frame. You wouldn't even notice it.

For someone in another location, PS may very well have better latency than xCloud, as latency is different based on locations.
 

Sorcerer

Member
The interesting thing to me about this (from a marketing POV) and seeing how both companies handle announcements/delivery, was the timeline of these features.
  • Xbox announced a long time ago that soon, Xbox gamers will be able to stream games they own. They even gave a rough timeline, but they never launched the feature. That launch period went by, and Xbox never even acknowledged the delay.
  • PlayStation never announced such a feature, but they one day just released it. PS gamers could now stream games they owned, outside of the PS+ Catalog.
  • Xbox still doesn't have this feature. A few weeks ago, Phil Spencer gave another timeline -- that they will launch this feature "in 2024."
  • Xbox still doesn't have this feature. A few weeks ago, Phil Spencer gave another timeline -- that they will launch this feature "in 2024."
Hopefully not another Lie of P (Spencer)
Also bring button remapping to Samsung Tv's and other whatever other platforms, outside of Xbox Consoles and PC.
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Nah, man. Shifted from Windows to OSX 10 years ago and have never looked back.

I've Macbooks and Macs in my home for work. I also use iPhone over Android as I prefer iOS. For PC gaming, I use Linux. And for console gaming, PS5.


Firangi :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 
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MarkMe2525

Member
Where are people getting this idea from? Again there is no confirmation that it virtualizes 4 Series S systems. The example MS gave was that a custom Series X SoC can virtualize 4 One S systems. Your local machine wouldn't be able to either because it doesn't have the RAM.
We are getting the idea from DF, they stated the performance and visual settings are an exact match for Series S. They also state in the video that they spoke with someone at xbox and the SX based blades virtualize 4 Series S instances. I to remember MS referring to 4 One S instances around launch, but maybe that has changed with newer configurations on the server board. Regardless, no one is pulling this out of thin air as it's plainly stated in the video. I'm sure if someone is motivated enough, they could corroborate or disprove DF's claim.

Edit: I am wrong and conflating two statements made close to eachother. They state MS is using SX blades to virtualize multiple Series S machines, but then give an example of when MS stated a Single SX could virtualize 4 One S machines. So while the SX blades are virtualizing multiple Series S instances, it's not 4 of them per SX board. @8:25 in the video
 
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Three

Member
Edit: I am wrong and conflating two statements made close to eachother. They state MS is using SX blades to virtualize multiple Series S machines, but then give an example of when MS stated a Single SX could virtualize 4 One S machines. So while the SX blades are virtualizing multiple Series S instances, it's not 4 of them per SX board. @8:25 in the video
Exactly, there isn't even evidence that they virtualize Series S on those machines they speculate that that may be the case based on the One S statement.
 
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I'm using Xcloud only for my Steam Deck, everything else gets downloaded on Xbox Series X. And for the Steam Deck Xcloud doesn't look that bad to be honest.
 

MarkMe2525

Member
Exactly, there isn't even evidence that they virtualize Series S on those machines they speculate that that may be the case based on the One S statement.
MS announced that they upgraded the xCloud blades to be based on SX and the games they are testing are an exact match for Series S visual settings and performance. I would consider that evidence.
 

Three

Member
MS announced that they upgraded the xCloud blades to be based on SX and the games they are testing are an exact match for Series S visual settings and performance. I would consider that evidence.
But what's to suggest that a single series X SoC is somehow running two instances of a series S game? There is no evidence of that.
 

MarkMe2525

Member
But what's to suggest that a single series X SoC is somehow running two instances of a series S game? There is no evidence of that.
?? MS specifically mentioned that the boards were designed to run multiple instances of lower-power Xbox devices, they gave the example of each SX blade's APU running 4 X1S profiles. I imagine you have asked yourself "Self, why would they not mention Series S if the capability is there?" Well, during the only time period where they were speaking publicly about their SX blade's capabilities, the Xbox Series S was not announced as a product yet. So, considering the fact that the SX blades are clearly virtualizing a Series S and were designed to handle multiple instances of lower-power Xboxes, I believe we do have circumstantial evidence supporting this.

I'll concede that MS has neither confirmed nor denied the SX blade’s ability to run multiple Series S instances per APU, but the substantial GPU power and ample RAM on each SX blade's APU (3x gpu and 2.4x ram of a SS) suggest that such capability exists. When you ask "Where are people getting this idea from? Again there is no confirmation that it virtualizes 2 Series S systems", I would point out that it seems both possible and plausible. To those who would state that they believe each SX blade APU runs only a single Series S profile, I would ask why would you think so? It seems like it would be a tremendous waste. Just my take anyways.

edit: I want to be clear, I don't believe each APU is virtualizing 4 SS instances, that was misspeak on my part. 2 SS profiles seem to fit the SX blade APU.
 
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Three

Member
When you ask "Where are people getting this idea from? Again there is no confirmation that it virtualizes 4 Series S systems", I would point out that it seems both possible and plausible. To those who would state that they believe each SX blade APU runs only a single Series S profile, I would ask why would you think so? It seems like it would be a tremendous waste. Just my take anyways.
It's impossible to do 4 and people just misunderstood 4 One S for 4 Series S for some reason. If they gave an example of 4 One S being virtualized on a Series X SoC how would it do 4 Series S with the CPU requirements? It might be possible to push 2 with lower CPU requirements for specific games but One S and Series S wouldn't be a match one for one.
 
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MarkMe2525

Member
It's impossible to do 4 and people just misunderstood 4 One S for 4 Series S for some reason. If they gave an example of 4 One S being virtualized on a Series X SoC how would it do 4 Series S with the CPU requirements? It might be possible to push 2 with lower CPU requirements for specific games but One S and Series S wouldn't be a match one for one.
Check above, i edited and you responded while i was typing. I corrected myself earlier and stated I do not believe that are virtualizing 4 SS instances. It would be 2 per APU
 

MarkMe2525

Member
It's impossible to do 4 and people just misunderstood 4 One S for 4 Series S for some reason. If they gave an example of 4 One S being virtualized on a Series X SoC how would it do 4 Series S with the CPU requirements? It might be possible to push 2 with lower CPU requirements for specific games but One S and Series S wouldn't be a match one for one.
To clarify again, we are talking about 2 Series S instances. If we look at what the SX cpu has to handle when running 4 X1S instances, it must perform the work for all four of the X1's 8 core @ 1.75 ghz cpu. I am admittedly a lamen in this area, so I ask you if you find it feasible for a stock XS Zen 2 cpu to handle the workload of these 32 cores? I always assumed the SX blades ran with a more powerful configuration of it's Zen 2 cpu.
 
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THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
This thread reminded me to try 4k cloud streaming. Tried a few games, honestly, pretty much flawless. The average person wouldn't notice the lag, and picture quality was excellent. At this level I can actually see it replacing consoles for the average Joe, assuming they can get it to the same level on basic hardware.

Also makes me think a portable makes more sense for sony, when docked it could just stream the "good" 4k graphics to the tv.
 

Three

Member
To clarify again, we are talking about 2 Series S instances. If we look at what the SX cpu has to handle when running 4 X1S instances, it must perform the work for all four of the X1's 8 core @ 1.75 ghz cpu. I am admittedly a lamen in this area, so I ask you if you find it feasible for a stock XS Zen 2 cpu to handle the workload of these 32 cores? I always assumed the SX blades ran with a more powerful configuration of it's Zen 2 cpu.
If you want my opinion I don't think it's actually XSX silicon capable of running multiple instances there either and some MS marketing about new gen server hardware and "4 times the power of previous gen" has turned into a game of telephone even with that claim. It is at least somewhat more plausible though if you take into account IPC gains and it having more than twice the clock.


The fact of the matter is though that there is absolutely no physical way an XSX SoC can run even 2 instances of an XSS game (matching performance 1:1 with it as shown in the vid) unless that SoC was not exactly "XSX silicon" at all but differed greatly, or the specifc game doesn't really use the XSS CPU much. That just isn't happening, especially for the game shown (A plagues tale).

There is the possibility that PR about "upgrading xcloud hardware to custom XSX hardware" before XSS was announced actually just means some server blade capable of running new gen games was introduced. It might not be the same configuration they did with their older one s blades or it might actually just be Series S's in the blade being called "upgrading to custom XSX hardware" before XSS was even known to the public. There is very little information about those new gen blades.
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Been wondering where youve been.

A lot of Sony and tech industry layoff/corporate kinds of threads the past 2-3 days. And the two biggest threads youve been in lately is this one and a thread about TMNT.
I was platinuming HD2.

Or you mean the Sony layoff thread where I was on the very 1st page commenting about it?

Or did you just mean to derail this thread and take the attention away from the topic?
 

Assaulty

Member
Both xcloud and remote play from your xbox has pretty awful IQ. Its not a viable option to me.

Pc streaming is leagues ahead of both
 
Holy smokes!!!

This is embarrassing for MS!!!

There goes all the goons who boasted about MS Azure like it had anything to do with their game streaming service. Quite why they decided to use XSX hardware for their cloud service is a complete fucking joke.
 
Surely you're trolling. There's literally nothing appealing about it, unless you happen to be stuck on a Chromebook.
Not at all. I work on Mac, Linux and Windows.
Everything from sharing, collaborating, presenting and overall user experience is leagues better in the G Suite and Drive.
 
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