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[SegaSnatcher]

On paper you see a $299 next gen console being a great option to have on day one, but if the goal for Microsoft was to try and get ahead of Sony in sales this gen then it doesn't look like its working.

Most people who want an Xbox console are clearly spending the extra $200 on the Series X, so in reality it probably would have been smarter for Microsoft just to sell a discless Series X at $399 instead of the heavily gimped Series S at $299.99.

Just going by general performance anaylysis we see how much Series S can struggle to hit consistent FPS at a decent resolution without having to resort to many cutbacks on visual fidelity.

Why they made the Series S worse than the One X in terms of GPU and Ram performance still boggles the mind.

What are your thoughts on the Series S now that we are two yrs in? Was it a good idea or was it a good idea on paper, but a failure in execution?

 

[TheUndeadGamer]

I don’t think so. I think they should have done a digital version for $399 like Sony did.

 

[Hobbygaming]

I think it was a bad decision as far as multiplatform games because they all have to run on this thing that only has 8GBs of ram and the memory is very slow

Scaling will help with some things but not others

 

[Chukhopops]

Most people who want an Xbox console are clearly spending the extra $200 on the Series X

What’s your source on that exactly?

Everything indicates that the S is outselling the X: Ampere numbers, amount of reviews for each on e-commerce sites, digital to physical sales split, etc.

A discless X would have had the same supply issues as the X and sold probably around the same percentage as the PS5 digital.

Multiplats are going to have a Steam Deck profile in the foreseeable future so I doubt having an XSS one will be impossible.

 

[Deerock71]

Probably the only thing that kept the layoffs to the level it was.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

If sales are truely slowing down, it's cause they lost a generation of kids who knew the Series S was not the one.

 

[Hendrick's]

 

[Danjin44]

I’m no expert, but if it’s selling well then I would call it success.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I haven’t used a Series S, it didn’t appeal to me at all. I got the Series X at launch like all previous Xbox consoles. I’m pretty disappointed with it in all honesty. I was hoping this generation they would come out with more of a impact in terms games/user experience. It feels like I bought a refined Xbox One X instead.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

What’s your source on that exactly?

Everything indicates that the S is outselling the X: Ampere numbers, amount of reviews for each on e-commerce sites, digital to physical sales split, etc.

A discless X would have had the same supply issues as the X and sold probably around the same percentage as the PS5 digital.

Multiplats are going to have a Steam Deck profile in the foreseeable future so I doubt having an XSS one will be impossible.

Well at certain points there was way more availabilty of S consoles than X consoles, but I'm pretty sure with more steady stock the momentum of sales is pointing towards Series X.

 

[Chukhopops]

Well at certain points there was way more availabilty of S consoles than X consoles, but I'm pretty sure with more steady stock the momentum of sales is pointing towards Series X.

Ok i was wondering if there was anything tangible in your post.

If you look at the MS last quarter announcement they specifically link the drop in hardware revenue to the « lower price and volume of consoles sold », which indicates the split is going further towards XSS (hence the lower average price) even as of December 2022.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Ok i was wondering if there was anything tangible in your post.

If you look at the MS last quarter announcement they specifically link the drop in hardware revenue to the « lower price and volume of consoles sold », which indicates the split is going further towards XSS (hence the lower average price) even as of December 2022.

Yeah, I would also like Microsoft to provide more data on this. How is their momentum of sales compared to Xbox One series during the same time frame? That can give us a good idea if the Series S $299.99 price point has made a positive impact for them.

 

[Gambit2483]

I think Starfield will ultimately show whether Series S is the albatross around Series X's neck as many have feared. If Starfield feels limited in any significant way or if the game runs or looks like dogshit on Series S then we will have a clearer picture on the viability of Series S.

 

[YCoCg]

The only real mistake they made was gimping the RAM as hard as they did, going for 12GB and upping the speed would've done more to help the console keep certain features that Series X and PS5 versions have. I would suggest upping the GPU TFLOPS to at least 4.6 as well if they still intend on going hard as this being a 1440p console and not a 1080p console.

 

[ACESHIGH]

Genius move. Outside of North America/Western Europe/Japan consoles are very expensive items. Typically selling at way higher price than US MSRP with lower wages to boot. Series S is the only console that's somewhat affordable. Plus its lower specs mean you don't have to upgrade your 1080p TV set to get the most of it.

Also, its price might make it work as a secondary console. I have a gaming PC but down the line I might get a used one since it seems to be a great emulation box on top of a capable gaming machine.

 

[Punished Miku]

Galaxy Brain move. If anything they probably could've skipped the X.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

only they know.

isn't Xbox series outpacing Xbone all thanks to series S?.

that seems like a S mart move.

but even 2 years into this gen. it feel that we are still in the cross- phase (about to end this year).

we will see when real Next-Gen titles perform on that consoles.

but we could talk about consoles, architecture, business model, ecosystem or whatever....at the end of the day is all about the content and that has been the biggest mistake.

 

[Topher]

People who bought XSS seem happy with it.

If anything they probably could've skipped the X.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

isn't Xbox series outpacing Xbone all thanks to series S?.

If this is true then yes, but I haven't seen evidence to back this up yet. I would have to reconsider my position if this is in fact the case.

 

[jorgejjvr]

Got more friends on Xbox due to the S. None of them had a One, just PS4.

Anecdotal but it's wild for me to see

 

[Celcius]

I don’t think so. I think they should have done a digital version for $399 like Sony did.

This right here. They should have gone the Sony route to be honest.

 

[onQ123]

Yes it was & if it wasn't a Series S there would be no Xbox Series console at all. Don't be fooled into thinking things would be better without it


Microsoft knew a $499 Xbox wasn't going to survive on it's own hell it's barely surviving with the cheaper console padding the numbers.


3rd parties would be bailing right now if they had to deal with Gamepass & only a small amount of Xbox Series X consoles out here while PS5 taking off into the 30 , 40 & 50 million units sold .

 

[Raonak]

I feel like it muddled up the messaging with the xbox.
It's a nice price point, but it hasn't really made waves. Seems like it came out and people stopped caring.


Anyone who wants to actually play next gen games went with PS5 and Xbox SX.
Most went with switch or stuck with their last gen consoles.

 

[Kacho]

Everyone knows you need compelling games to move hardware and Xbox has very few of those this gen. Right now it’s impossible to say if that specific sku was a good idea or not. If Microsoft starts releasing great games regularly, then we’ll know if it was a smart move or not, because in theory, it should sell extremely well.

However from my perspective, people that have one love it, and people that hate Xbox really dislike the Series S.

 

[Henry Panic]

What’s your source on that exactly?

Everything indicates that the S is outselling the X: Ampere numbers, amount of reviews for each on e-commerce sites, digital to physical sales split, etc.

A discless X would have had the same supply issues as the X and sold probably around the same percentage as the PS5 digital.

Multiplats are going to have a Steam Deck profile in the foreseeable future so I doubt having an XSS one will be impossible.

No one has numbers for how much X or S has sold so not sure where you're getting that, there are vgchartz level guesses at best out there.

It is however, obvious there's more S since not as many Xs have been made.

Simple math would then dictate that is the reason there are more reviews for S. Which you can find anywhere at anytime.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Doesn’t seem like a price drop for the X is in the cards anytime soon, so yeah I think it makes sense to have a cheaper option.

 

[Bonfires Down]

I think Starfield will ultimately show whether Series S is the albatross around Series X's neck as many have feared. If Starfield feels limited in any significant way or if the game runs or looks like dogshit on Series S then we will have a clearer picture on the viability of Series S.

I guarantee you Starfield would feel limited and run like dogshit whether or not the S existed.

 

[Chukhopops]

No one has numbers for how much X or S has sold so not sure where you're getting that, there are vgchartz level guesses at best out there.

It is however, obvious there's more S since not as many Xs have been made.

Simple math would then dictate that is the reason there are more reviews for S. Which you can find anywhere at anytime.

So you’re saying the XSS sold more? Then I agree.

Even if the reason was only because it’s easier to find (which I don’t buy as an argument, you don’t buy something just because it’s available) it still justifies the strategy - you can’t sell what you can’t produce.

 

[El Pistolero]

Genius move. Outside of North America/Western Europe/Japan consoles are very expensive items. Typically selling at way higher price than US MSRP with lower wages to boot. Series S is the only console that's somewhat affordable. Plus its lower specs mean you don't have to upgrade your 1080p TV set to get the most of it.

Also, its price might make it work as a secondary console. I have a gaming PC but down the line I might get a used one since it seems to be a great emulation box on top of a capable gaming machine.

Had to double-check the date on this post...Damn, I really thought it was made in 2019!
On a more serious note, I would give MS another year to prove us wrong. If things do not drastically improve within the next 10 months or so, then the decision will have done them more harm than good.

 

[Rykan]

No, it was not a smart move.

The Xbox Series S was a huge blunder and is partly to blame for Series consoles lacking behind the Playstation 5. The Playstation 5's sales lead over the Xbox Series consoles estimates range from anywhere from 10m to 20m. It is a huge gap.

The Playstation 5 and The Xbox Series consoles launched very close to another and have dealt with supply and production constraint since. The situation has improved since then, to the point where you can now find both systems if you look hard enough. However, they're still not at a point where each of the consoles have enough supply at every location and at every capacity that they should.

That means that sales are limited almost entirely by the amount of systems that you can produce, and if one system is blazing ahead by this many units, that means something went wrong.

The reason? Series S. A large amount of consoles produced are Series S consoles which, unsurprisingly, has been the only next gen system that has not been consistently sold out for the past 2 years, and has been readily available. A not insignificant amount of Series S consoles have been sitting on shelves while MS can't produce enough of the system that people actually want to buy. Series S has outsold Series X a few times, but this is largely due to supply issues.

Developers now have another system that they have to take into consideration: This means more time spend on development, QA and possible limitations because the hardware is significantly weaker. It also limits the possibility of releasing a more powerful Series console further down the line.

There's nothing suggesting that the Series S has improved MS's standings vs the PS5. They're as behind as they were last gen.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

So you’re saying the XSS sold more? Then I agree.

Even if the reason was only because it’s easier to find (which I don’t buy as an argument, you don’t buy something just because it’s available) it still justifies the strategy - you can’t sell what you can’t produce.

Someone desperate to jump in the next generation might have settled for a Series S if that is all that was available. It's not unreasonable to think that is part of it.

I guess it really comes down to what Microsoft goals were for the Series S. Was it an attempt at outselling Sony or just as a way to stay somewhat competitive?

I like both Sony and Xbox line of consoles, but just looking at it objectively the PS5 has like a 10 million sales lead over Xbox Series S/X, and that is taking into account the serious stock supply issues the PS5 suffered for 2 straight years.

This is why I question how affective the Series S SKU was for Microsoft. Would they have done much worse if they just had a $399.99 Discless Series X SKU?

 

[Shubh_C63]

I think it was a great move. People who remotely understand the word "DDR5" (or really care about games) will pony up extra to get Series X.
And lots and lots of people who can't even distinguish between graphics or high/low fps can go opt for Xbox S because its cheaper (when shopping by their gradmas?)

MS just wish there wasn't people like Gaf/IGN/Tech that keeps comparing the two consoles because in truth, Series S was meant to give people gimped game versions because at lower price the buyers don't give a sh*t.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

I think it was a great move. People who remotely understand the word "DDR5" (or really care about games) will pony up extra to get Series X.
And lots and lots of people who can't even distinguish between graphics or high/low fps can go opt for Xbox S because its cheaper (when shopping by their gradmas?)

MS just wish there wasn't people like Gaf/IGN/Tech that keeps comparing the two consoles because in truth, Series S was meant to give people gimped game versions because at lower price the buyers don't give a sh*t.

Gamers that read Gaf or Tech videos are more likely to be spending the money on the better consoles anyways. People who don't care about these things likely aren't reading Gaf or any super tech focused channels at all.

 

[Shubh_C63]

Gamers that read Gaf or Tech videos are more likely to be spending the money on the better consoles anyways. People who don't care about these things likely aren't reading Gaf or any super tech focused channels at all.

Yup that's what I meant. Gaf people would buy X and people just buying a console to play CoD will buy series S. it was a good move.

Did MS overestimated the casual crowd who don't really care that much about graphics ? Could be. They presented with both option to the market.

 

[ProtoByte]

Microsoft has hampered an entire gen of multiplats for the damn thing. Time spent optimizing for it could be spent elsewhere.

 

[yurinka]

I think the problem of Series S aren't noticed now when all games are crossgen or games running in previous gen engines. As of now it's a good idea to play indies from GP and a handful MS games released every year. Specially if you don't have a 4K tv.

The problem will be when next gen only engines that could take full advantage or the hardware won't be able to do it because the MS exclusives and multis will be forced to support Series S.

 

[SlimySnake]

Series S is probably already 60:40 give how supply constrained Series X has been recently. It was already 50:50 in 2021.

If it wasnt for the series s, MS wouldve been around 8-10 million units sold. being outsold 3 to 1 or 4 to 1. it was a good business decision in hindsight given how few XSX Phil has managed to produce. Probably because hes losing $200 per unit and doesnt want to manufacture too many of them.

That said, console generations are a marathon and crazier things have happened before. kinect brought new life to the xbox 360 right as PS3 slim was catching up so the series s might still have a role to play as xbox starts to get bigger games like starfield. PS5 is still effectively a $560 box even in the U.S where its being bundled with GOW for an extra $60. Eventually Sony will tap out their hardcore audience too.

You just never know is what im saying. maybe ask around 5 years in.

 

[Lasha]

No, it was not a smart move.

The Xbox Series S was a huge blunder and is partly to blame for Series consoles lacking behind the Playstation 5. The Playstation 5's sales lead over the Xbox Series consoles estimates range from anywhere from 50% to 70%. It's a huge gap.

The Playstation 5 and The Xbox Series consoles launched very close to another and have dealt with supply and production constraint since. The situation has improved since then, to the point where you can now find both systems if you look hard enough. However, they're still not at a point where each of the consoles have enough supply at every location and at every capacity that they should.

That means that sales are limited almost entirely by the amount of systems that you can produce, and if one system is blazing ahead by around 50%, that means something went wrong.

The reason? Series S. A large amount of consoles produced are Series S consoles which, unsurprisingly, has been the only next gen system that has not been sold out for the past 2 years, and has been readily available. A not insignificant amount of Series S consoles have been sitting on shelves while MS can't produce enough of the system that people actually want to buy. Series S has outsold Series X a few times, but this is largely due to supply issues.

Developers now have another system that they have to take into consideration: This means more time spend on development, QA and possible limitations because the hardware is significantly weaker. It also limits the possibility of releasing a more powerful Series console further down the line.

There's nothing suggesting that the Series S has improved MS's standings vs the PS5. They're as behind as they were last gen.

The die for a Series S is half the size of the die for the Series X. The manufacturing process for the Series S is also simpler. Microsoft can produce 2 or more Series S for every Series X using assembly lines which are less stressed. What "went wrong" is that Microsoft found a way to ensure that it always had a product in stock during a period where bottlenecks in manufacturing and distribution slowed the production of higher end consoles. PS5 and Series X would not have any availability issues if the solution was to stop making Series S.

The Series S limitations are also not as serious. Xbox uses a single development kit for all Xbox games. Each console is just a different resource profile from the developer's perspective. The series S is easier to target than PC because its still just an Xbox. PS4 and Xbox One are more of a handicap for developers.

 

[ZehDon]

Well, we're about a third into this generation, and the "Series S is an albatross" narrative hasn't really found its example yet. So, I'd say its doing pretty well. We're getting into proper next-gen only territory this year, so we'll see if this still holds true by Christmas.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I don’t know about the consoles but I do know Neogaf is starting to wear extremely thin.

 

[Jaybe]

 

[Deleted member 471617]

It was a great decision and move by Microsoft. Cheaper entry point into the Xbox eco-system was necessary after last generation and when you factor in Covid and a near worldwide recession where gaming is a luxury and not a necessity, a $300 console that will last until next generation was again, a great move. It's great for those who skipped Xbox One and want to jump in at a cheaper price or for those who are mainly PlayStation gamers but want an Xbox for the exclusives and/or Game Pass. Series S will be the reason why Microsoft will go from being outsold 2 to 1 during the PS4/XBO generation to 1.5 to 1 ratio this generation which will allow them to build upon the success going into next generation in Fall 2028.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Series S is probably already 60:40 give how supply constrained Series X has been recently. It was already 50:50 in 2021.

If it wasnt for the series s, MS wouldve been around 8-10 million units sold. being outsold 3 to 1 or 4 to 1. it was a good business decision in hindsight given how few XSX Phil has managed to produce. Probably because hes losing $200 per unit and doesnt want to manufacture too many of them.

That said, console generations are a marathon and crazier things have happened before. kinect brought new life to the xbox 360 right as PS3 slim was catching up so the series s might still have a role to play as xbox starts to get bigger games like starfield. PS5 is still effectively a $560 box even in the U.S where its being bundled with GOW for an extra $60. Eventually Sony will tap out their hardcore audience too.

You just never know is what im saying. maybe ask around 5 years in.

If the Series S truly helped them that greatly then I guess at least in the short run it has been quite helpful for them. Do you think they would really be that behind if they just had a $399.99 Digital SKU like PS5?

 

[Topher]

Well, we're about a third into this generation, and the "Series S is an albatross" narrative hasn't really found its example yet. So, I'd say its doing pretty well. We're getting into proper next-gen only territory this year, so we'll see if this still holds true by Christmas.

Yeah, that narrative has never made sense to me. When all these games are made for PCs with lower specs than XSS, how does any of this console gen stuff even apply anymore? Hogwarts Legacy will run at 720p/30 on a GTX 960 and Ryzen 5 1400. So even if/when XSS has to eventually drop resolution more than anticipated, I don't see how it is an "albatross" when games are still made for lower spec'd systems.

 

[SlimySnake]

If the Series S truly helped them that greatly then I guess at least in the short run it has been quite helpful for them. Do you think they would really be that behind if they just had a $399.99 Digital SKU like PS5?

Sony is losing $50 on a digital SKU and they almost never ship that SKU even when they sell directly from their store where they dont have to pay retailers a $30-50 cut. Microsoft is losing $200 on the $500 xsx. on the $400 xsx without a $20 drive, they would be losing $280. it's just not financially feasible.

Sony's machine is cheaper. they are using a 20% smaller chip. their cooling is much cheaper than microsoft's expensive vapor chamber cooling. their ram is cheaper. their production pipeline is clearly helping them reduce costs too. MS is losing $100 on the $299 XSS. that console of theirs should probably be selling for $399. they just cant make consoles as cheaply as Sony.

 

[Nydius]

I suppose it was a smart decision for Microsoft as a way to close the sales gap on Sony while also suckering people into eventually buying an overpriced proprietary memory expansion, if not a Series X later down the line when the Series S begins to underperform or when the end user wants to upgrade to 4K.

Is it a smart decision to buy? Not at all, for the aforementioned reasons. With a meager 364gb of usable space and last gen games rapidly coming to an end, that space is going to get chewed up quick. That space is pretty much one COD game and one Forza game and then you're outta luck. After buying the expansion card, you've spent nearly as much as the XSX, so you might as well get that in the first place.

 

[Chukhopops]

I don’t know about the consoles but I do know Neogaf is starting to wear extremely thin.

Remember that a guy once predicted the XSS would be a bigger flop than the Ouya, and another said it would be discontinued one year into the gen.

The world is full of dumb opinions, all you can do is laugh at them.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Sony is losing $50 on a digital SKU and they almost never ship that SKU even when they sell directly from their store where they dont have to pay retailers a $30-50 cut. Microsoft is losing $200 on the $500 xsx. on the $400 xsx without a $20 drive, they would be losing $280. it's just not financially feasible.

Sony's machine is cheaper. they are using a 20% smaller chip. their cooling is much cheaper than microsoft's expensive vapor chamber cooling. their ram is cheaper. their production pipeline is clearly helping them reduce costs too. MS is losing $100 on the $299 XSS. that console of theirs should probably be selling for $399. they just cant make consoles as cheaply as Sony.

If the rumors are true then in the not too distant future a digital PS5 SKU is all Sony will offer, with an optional external disc drive purchase.

 

[Gambit2483]

Well, we're about a third into this generation, and the "Series S is an albatross" narrative hasn't really found its example yet. So, I'd say its doing pretty well. We're getting into proper next-gen only territory this year, so we'll see if this still holds true

Hence why I say Starfield should be a good litmus test for what Series S is and isn't truly capable of

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Remember that a guy once predicted the XSS would be a bigger flop than the Ouya, and another said it would be discontinued one year into the gen.

The world is full of dumb opinions, all you can do is laugh at them.

What opinion have I expressed do you feel is "dumb"? I have no issues if you think I'm wrong or that my opinion is flawed, but "dumb" seems like a stretch.

I think we can be civil and disagree here without throwing insults like that.