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NeoGAF's Essential RPGs 2016 Edition - Voting open until January 15th-
- Thread starter KuwabaraTheMan
- Start date
For GAF Essential RPGs, the voting thread and the results thread have always been one and the same. Posts will be made as the OP gets updated.
Definitely eager to hear how progress on that is going, though!
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
My busy work schedule has slowed things down somewhat, but I should have everything counted by Thursday at the latest. And then the process of writing everything up for the OP can start.
I'll start posting results in here as soon as I'm done counting.
Gotcha.
I am curious to see if Chrono Trigger ends up #1 for the sixth time. I did a quick flip through and it seemed like CT had more votes than Persona 4, but it's hard to tell with all the special point ballots.
That's why I mention P4 and Planescape. Best writing votes seemed to pretty much only go to those games outside of a few outliers.
That'll be really interesting to see the results of, especially since I feel like this is Persona 4's last chance to get first place. I wouldn't be surprised if, next year, enough people replace P4 with Persona 5 to the point that 4 ranks lower than usual, but still pretty high.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
It took me a bit longer to count the votes than I had hoped, but after a lengthy process, I'm finally finished. Almost 400 RPGs were voted for this year, with 115 valid ballots being cast (a handful of ballots were thrown out due to not providing comments).
When I decided to expand the total number of titles you could vote for to 30, I had hoped that it would help some more overlooked titles get on more lists. And one of my hopes with the new highlighting system was that it would help some titles that are known for being really excellent in a specific area to get some love.
As far as if that worked or not, it is still unclear. While a lot of the top of the list remains similar, the Top 50 does feature both some new games from the past year, as well as two older titles that have never made the Top 50 before. And the Top 100 (actually a Top 103 due to ties) features eight brand new entrants aside from 2015 releases. And on top of that, several titles are back in this part of the list for the first time in several years. So there's definitely some good there.
Of course, it goes without saying that with that, you have some titles missing out on positions they usually hold. Some of them just barely, and others by much more. Secret of Mana only just barely made the Top 200, for example.
And there were definitely some clear highlight winners. A few were traditional Essential RPG list toppers, but some were titles that really benefited a lot from the new rules. One in particular you'll see just below.
It'll take some time for me to get write ups for everything sorted (fortunately I have the weekend off, so I'll start making some headway then), but I can reveal some of the top of the list now.
Well, it was quite close, but wonder no more...
Here's the Top 20:
1. Chrono Trigger
2. Persona 4
3. Dark Souls
4. Final Fantasy VII
5. Fallout New Vegas
6. Final Fantasy VI
7. Xenoblade Chronicles
8. The Witcher III: Wild Hunt
9. Planescape: Torment
10. Baldur's Gate II
11. Persona 3
12. Earthbound
13. Mass Effect
14. Final Fantasy X
15. Final Fantasy IX
16. Undertale
17. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
18. Divinity Original Sin
19. Nier
20. Mass Effect 2
Some notable titles moving up the ranks here, and a shift in the top Final Fantasy title for the first time (and that really only happened near the last stages of the vote, too). Plus we have a couple of strong debuts from 2015 darlings. Will they be fixtures like Xenoblade has been, or Skyrim-style flashes in pan?
When I decided to expand the total number of titles you could vote for to 30, I had hoped that it would help some more overlooked titles get on more lists. And one of my hopes with the new highlighting system was that it would help some titles that are known for being really excellent in a specific area to get some love.
As far as if that worked or not, it is still unclear. While a lot of the top of the list remains similar, the Top 50 does feature both some new games from the past year, as well as two older titles that have never made the Top 50 before. And the Top 100 (actually a Top 103 due to ties) features eight brand new entrants aside from 2015 releases. And on top of that, several titles are back in this part of the list for the first time in several years. So there's definitely some good there.
Of course, it goes without saying that with that, you have some titles missing out on positions they usually hold. Some of them just barely, and others by much more. Secret of Mana only just barely made the Top 200, for example.
And there were definitely some clear highlight winners. A few were traditional Essential RPG list toppers, but some were titles that really benefited a lot from the new rules. One in particular you'll see just below.
It'll take some time for me to get write ups for everything sorted (fortunately I have the weekend off, so I'll start making some headway then), but I can reveal some of the top of the list now.
Well, it was quite close, but wonder no more...
Here's the Top 20:
1. Chrono Trigger
2. Persona 4
3. Dark Souls
4. Final Fantasy VII
5. Fallout New Vegas
6. Final Fantasy VI
7. Xenoblade Chronicles
8. The Witcher III: Wild Hunt
9. Planescape: Torment
10. Baldur's Gate II
11. Persona 3
12. Earthbound
13. Mass Effect
14. Final Fantasy X
15. Final Fantasy IX
16. Undertale
17. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
18. Divinity Original Sin
19. Nier
20. Mass Effect 2
Some notable titles moving up the ranks here, and a shift in the top Final Fantasy title for the first time (and that really only happened near the last stages of the vote, too). Plus we have a couple of strong debuts from 2015 darlings. Will they be fixtures like Xenoblade has been, or Skyrim-style flashes in pan?
RespectThySole
Member
Fire Emblem: Awakening out of the top 20 is interesting. Best Soundtrack category helped Nier quite a bit.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Yeah, it certainly did. If you assume that Nier wouldn't have gotten any highlights without it (which probably isn't true), than it would have been tied for 34th without that category.
As far as Awakening goes, it had kind of an odd trajectory. It was slow to start with, and I thought it was in for a huge fall. Then it surged in the middle of the vote and looked like it was set for a return to the Top 10, or just outside it. But then its votes just disappeared down the stretch, and it tumbled out of the Top 20. Torment had an opposite trajectory. Early on it was down around 30th or lower, but it really started building up votes late in the day (and picked up a massive amount of Writing nods as well), slowly pushing up to the Top 10. When it looked like it could finish below Mass Effect 2 I was really imaging how bad the meltdown would be.
decoyplatypus
Member
The first story that jumps out at me is Fallout: New Vegas's climb. In its first year of eligibility, it landed in a tie for 36th. It spent a couple of years in the 20s, then last year it leapt all the way to 12. Now it's top five in a GAF RPG poll. Incredible - and well deserved.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Yeah, New Vegas had a very interesting climb this year. It was getting good support all the way, and it leap frogged a few titles at the end.
And since this is as good an excuse as any to post something else, here's the Fallout series ranking this year, in honor of New Vegas hitting the Top 5 and a major new game releasing a couple of months ago:
1. Fallout: New Vegas
2. Fallout 2
3. Fallout
4. Fallout 3
5. Fallout 4 (tied for 195th with three points, putting it a single honorable mention ahead of...)
6. Fallout Tactics
Not quite how I expected things to play out when this started.
The Top 3 are all in the Top 50, by the way, with Fallout 3 a little bit outside of it.
names2hard4you
Member
No SMTIV makes me sad. Other than that, solid list.
decoyplatypus
Member
I'm glad Fallout 1 and 2 are hanging in the top fifty.
Other observations:
- Xenoblade continues to drop about a spot per year since its debut.
- I believe this is the first time FF7 has placed above FF6.
- Very strong debut for The Witcher 3. I bet it will climb a spot or two in the next poll and hang around top fifteen for a while. I only wish I could admire it as much as the rest of the world seems to
- Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines couldn't make it back into the top twenty. Here's hoping someone does something with the license and revives interest in a pretty special RPG.
- No Suikoden 2 in the top twenty makes me
We'll probably see Nocturne in the 20s and SMT4 not long after that.
All versions and remakes of a game are bundled into one entry, yeah. A vote for Pokemon Gold on the GBC and a vote for Pokemon SoulSilver on the DS are functionally the same.
Anyway interesting lineup so far this year! Shame P4 couldn't finally triumph. Undertale deserves that Top 20 spot, I bet it'll be higher next time.
Pretty much the only way to do it since some of the older games on the list have been on like a half dozen platforms.
decoyplatypus
Member
Yeah, I think that's a good bet. It's available (at an affordable price) to pretty much anyone who wants to try it, its art, story, and mechanics are accessible, and people who like Undertale tend to really like it.
Benzychenz
Member
That's a nice top 20.
I really need to catch up on my Final Fantasy's, only one I've played is 7, and I've beaten every other Japanese game on that list.
Think I'll do 4 next seeing I just got the PSP version on sale for my Vita, after that what's the best versions for 5 and 6?
I really need to catch up on my Final Fantasy's, only one I've played is 7, and I've beaten every other Japanese game on that list.
Think I'll do 4 next seeing I just got the PSP version on sale for my Vita, after that what's the best versions for 5 and 6?
The only major problem I see with that top 20 is no Dragon Quest.
4 is a good one. I think the best one out of 1-9. It's short so even if you don't like it, it won't take much of your time. One of the most underrated features of FF4 is that you can run instantly from every battle. Keep that in mind. PSP version is easier than DS so feel free to run whenever you want. Encounter rate is high in all SNES FFs, but in this one you can almost control your own encounter rate. It'll actually probably make the game more exciting the more you run.
I believe 5 is best on GBA.
6 is best on SNES for the music alone. GBA has poor sound quality. You don't want to experience 6 with poor sound quality.
4 is a good one. I think the best one out of 1-9. It's short so even if you don't like it, it won't take much of your time. One of the most underrated features of FF4 is that you can run instantly from every battle. Keep that in mind. PSP version is easier than DS so feel free to run whenever you want. Encounter rate is high in all SNES FFs, but in this one you can almost control your own encounter rate. It'll actually probably make the game more exciting the more you run.
I believe 5 is best on GBA.
6 is best on SNES for the music alone. GBA has poor sound quality. You don't want to experience 6 with poor sound quality.
Benzychenz
Member
Thanks
RPG goal for this year is Final Fantasy 4, 5, 6, and Dragon Quest 6, 7, 8 (new 3DS versions of those last two).
Should be manageable I think, though I wanted to do something similar last year and only managed Dragon Quest 4 and 5
1. Chrono Trigger (best pacing): quiet obvious
2. Final Fantasy 10 (Best world and atmosphere): The combat was more interesting than most other rpgs I played. Was simple but needed some thought.
The world was made believable by excellent writing. There was conviction in what characters said and was sad but beautiful game. Music was also fitting, flowing and soothing for a world that was long suffering.
3. Baldurs gate 2: one of most addictive game I ever played. was really sad the day I finished it. It all comes together to make great experience. Much like chrono trigger. hard to say why its best, it all comes together really well.
4. Planescape torment (best story): great writing. worth experiencing. Overall not as memorable as baldurs gate cause gameplay not as good. But it has lot of text and all of it quality writing. well worth your time.
5. Demons souls: my first souls game.
6.Fallout 2
7. Final fantasy 7
8. Fallout New vegas
2. Final Fantasy 10 (Best world and atmosphere): The combat was more interesting than most other rpgs I played. Was simple but needed some thought.
The world was made believable by excellent writing. There was conviction in what characters said and was sad but beautiful game. Music was also fitting, flowing and soothing for a world that was long suffering.
3. Baldurs gate 2: one of most addictive game I ever played. was really sad the day I finished it. It all comes together to make great experience. Much like chrono trigger. hard to say why its best, it all comes together really well.
4. Planescape torment (best story): great writing. worth experiencing. Overall not as memorable as baldurs gate cause gameplay not as good. But it has lot of text and all of it quality writing. well worth your time.
5. Demons souls: my first souls game.
6.Fallout 2
7. Final fantasy 7
8. Fallout New vegas
There is a patch for both FF5GBA and FF6GBA that backports the SNES music.
(Resulting in lower slowdown, curiously enough).
First year I discover the existance of this voting thread. I will make sure to vote next year
Cool story, but voting is closed (it's even in the title)
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
A few more results for folks to mull over.
21. Valkyria Chronicles
22(t). Demon's Souls
22(t). Fire Emblem: Awakening
24(t). Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
24(t). Final Fantasy Tactics
26. Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal/Heart Gold/Soul Silver
27(t). Bloodborne
27(t). Suikoden II
27(t). Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
30. Deus Ex: Human Revolution
31. Dragon's Dogma
32(t). The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings
32(t). Dragon Age: Origins
34. Final Fantasy XII
35(t). Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines
35(t). Fallout 2
35(t). Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride
38. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
39. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
40. Deus Ex
Notable stuff here include Bloodboren's debut, Knights of the Old Republic II's highest ever placing by a fair amount (it's never been in the Top 50 before), and a 20 place drop for Final Fantasy XII, putting it at its lowest ever position. Morrowind also reclaims the top spot for Elder Scrolls this year, surpassing Skyrim (which finishes just outside of the Top 50 this year).
And here's the first of the special highlight categories. These were interesting to see play out, since I wasn't really sure for some of them how voting would work out. Results are presented in alphabetical order.
NeoGAF's Essential RPG Soundtracks:
Baten Kaitos: Origins
Chrono Cross
Chrono Trigger
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy VII
Mass Effect
Nier
Persona 4
Shin Megami Tensei IV
The Witcher
The Witcher III: Wild Hunt
The World Ends With You
Undertale
Xenoblade Chronicles
21. Valkyria Chronicles
22(t). Demon's Souls
22(t). Fire Emblem: Awakening
24(t). Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
24(t). Final Fantasy Tactics
26. Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal/Heart Gold/Soul Silver
27(t). Bloodborne
27(t). Suikoden II
27(t). Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
30. Deus Ex: Human Revolution
31. Dragon's Dogma
32(t). The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings
32(t). Dragon Age: Origins
34. Final Fantasy XII
35(t). Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines
35(t). Fallout 2
35(t). Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride
38. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
39. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
40. Deus Ex
Notable stuff here include Bloodboren's debut, Knights of the Old Republic II's highest ever placing by a fair amount (it's never been in the Top 50 before), and a 20 place drop for Final Fantasy XII, putting it at its lowest ever position. Morrowind also reclaims the top spot for Elder Scrolls this year, surpassing Skyrim (which finishes just outside of the Top 50 this year).
And here's the first of the special highlight categories. These were interesting to see play out, since I wasn't really sure for some of them how voting would work out. Results are presented in alphabetical order.
NeoGAF's Essential RPG Soundtracks:
Baten Kaitos: Origins
Chrono Cross
Chrono Trigger
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy VII
Mass Effect
Nier
Persona 4
Shin Megami Tensei IV
The Witcher
The Witcher III: Wild Hunt
The World Ends With You
Undertale
Xenoblade Chronicles
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Will be interesting to see if newcomers like Undertale & The Witcher 3 are just popular fads or if they stick around or even grow in popularity with the coming years.
And man, loot-oriented RPGs aren't popular here, are they? Top 40 and no Path of Exile, no Diablo, and no Grim Dawn.
And man, loot-oriented RPGs aren't popular here, are they? Top 40 and no Path of Exile, no Diablo, and no Grim Dawn.
Yeah, I think that RPGs like New Vegas take time to people really see them shine. For example, you do a determined quest in your first playthrough and that is it. Later you find out that same quest could be finished in a very different way with very different consquences. Sometimes you'll only discover that with multiple playthroughs, or maybe word of month in forums and youtube videos. Either way it takes time to people think "holy shit, this game is actually an outstanding RPG".
I imagine that a lot of people will categorize those games separately from the story based RPGs. It's similar to how some people would consider a game like Valkyria Chronicles as a Strategy game rather than an RPG.
zero shift
Banned
This is an actual really solid list. I'm a bit surprised as the previous years felt more like a popularity contest.
Too bad Shin Megami Tensei IV isn't high up there though.
Too bad Shin Megami Tensei IV isn't high up there though.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I'm going to assume TW3 cannibalized TW and TW2 and then some. Wouldn't be surprised those two are the lowest they have ever been.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Diablo II is just outside the Top 40 (and it had looked like it would be higher up for most of the voting), but aside from Diablo loot games didn't get much of a look in. Path of Exile is sitting on just two points, and Grim Dawn didn't receive a single vote.
Shin Megami Tensei IV not being higher is a shame, but it did make the Top 50 for the first time this year, which is good progress for it. I hope that it can keep climbing up the ranks in the future.
Really? To me the votes look a bit like a popularity contest.
I only just started playing SMT IV or else I'd have maybe voted for it.
zero shift
Banned
That is fantastic. Hope it continues, but I feel that it being attached to a single system, the 3DS, will harm its ranking in the future unless it is ported to the NX
or mobile and PC
human onion
Banned
I do wish that Ultima Underworld worked its way up, it really is crazy just how far ahead of its time it was. The Looking Glass RPG's in general seem to have gotten the shaft.
Still, not a bad list, even if some Western games feel missing. Just means I should probably try more JRPG's.
Still, not a bad list, even if some Western games feel missing. Just means I should probably try more JRPG's.
Benzychenz
Member
Hopefully I'll be able to add some (non-Persona) SMT to my ballot in the coming years.
Currently working through the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games but it's definitely the next JRPG series I want to check out. Think I'll go 3->DDS->4 then check out some spinoffs if I'm wanting more.
haha
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Dear Lord in heaven. I don't have too much grounds to complain since I forgot to finish writing up my ballots due to a lot of recent travels, but still. Wow.
Fire Emblem Awakening as top Fire Emblem is plain sad. At least it is not top 20 .
I think that will be the only axe I have to grind. For the most part I'm just curious what the list will be and I have enjoyed reading people's ballots to inform my "to-play sometime list" and to help choose some Christmas gifts for the RPG-inclined this past holiday. Awakening, however, can go die in a hole. Here's to hoping I don't feel the same way about Fates!
.I think that will be the only axe I have to grind. For the most part I'm just curious what the list will be and I have enjoyed reading people's ballots to inform my "to-play sometime list" and to help choose some Christmas gifts for the RPG-inclined this past holiday. Awakening, however, can go die in a hole
. Here's to hoping I don't feel the same way about Fates!Benzychenz
Member
Fire Emblem Awakening as top Fire Emblem is plain sad. At least it is not top 20
I think that will be the only axe I have to grind. For the most part I'm just curious what the list will be and I have enjoyed reading people's ballots to inform my "to-play sometime list" and to help choose some Christmas gifts for the RPG-inclined this past holiday. Awakening, however, can go die in a hole
Path of Radiance + Radiant Dawn need a HD remaster. Awakening got a lot of people into the series (myself included
) so it'd be a good time to rerelease the older titles.KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I've never played it (one of many "I'll check that out someday" titles), but I do agree that it making the list would have been a good thing given how influential it was. It came within a couple of votes of making the Top 100.
Don't sleep on the underrated Strange Journey if you do. It's a really great, atmospheric and lonely RPG.
I'm thinking myself of using this year's list to come up with a to-do list for me, so that I can play some more of these highly regarded titles before the next vote.
And for now, I have a few more results.
41. Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King
42(t). Pokemon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow/Fire Red/Leaf Green
42(t). Mother 3
44(t). Diablo II
44(t). The World Ends With You
46. Fallout
47. Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
48. The Witcher
49. Xenogears
50. Shin Megami Tensei IV
As previously mentioned, Shin Megami Tensei IV gets into the Top 50 for the first time. Mother 3 falls a little more from last year, which had already been a big drop from the previous list. On the other end of the spectcum, Dragon Quest VIII surges up by 25 spots, and Diablo goes up by 11. There's more of an uncertainty at this level as to where these titles could go from here.
NeoGAF's Essential Combat:
Baldur's Gate II
Bloodborne
Chrono Trigger
Dark Souls
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Divinity: Original Sin
Dragon's Dogma:
Final Fantasy XII
Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
Mount and Blade: Warband
Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
Tales of Graces f
Valkyria Chronicles
This was probably the toughest category overall. With such a variety of different battle systems, difficulty levels, playstyles, etc, there was almost complete freedom to go in whatever direction you wanted with this. The result was 42 different titles getting highlighted, but with only thirteen getting at least two highlights (in contrast it was 31 and 15 for soundtrack).
The end result, I think, does a good job at showcasing that diversity, from traditional turn based games to strategy games, real time with pause, and several very clearly distinct styles of "action RPG". Plus all sorts of in between stuff like Valkyria Chronicles or Final Fantasy XII.