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[VGEsoterica]

What's the status of the Saturn core?

The Saturn is the only system that has an FPGA while every other software solution sucks. Not so much in compatibility/accuracy, Mednafen is great. But they suck because of the input lag. All Saturn emulators suffer from increased input lag. For some reason none of the developers have figured out how to solve this. Maybe Mister has the answer?

the maker did some commits on Github for documentation. That means he is safe at the moment. He us Ukranian and has a lot BIGGER shit to worry about that finishing the core...but he still seems to be working. Zero expectations as to when it'll happen...as who cares about the core when you know what he is going through

 

[Spukc]

What's the status of the Saturn core?

The Saturn is the only system that has an FPGA while every other software solution sucks. Not so much in compatibility/accuracy, Mednafen is great. But they suck because of the input lag. All Saturn emulators suffer from increased input lag. For some reason none of the developers have figured out how to solve this. Maybe Mister has the answer?

last time i checked it was all early stuff i stopped using the mister when the sega cd core became a thing..
i mainly use my mister as a neogeo device. also modded a neogeo aes stick to work with it

 

[oldergamer]

Not sure what you are asking. When i say software i mean software emulators for PCs and other devices. FPGA is a device that already has whatever it needs to emulate the systems they support.

I mean the cores

 

[Victor Omega]

Wowser!!! I just stumbled onto you challenge couple month ago. Wasn't expecting to see you on NeoGAF :O!!! Cool

 

[GametimeUK]

This stuff is cool for the target audience, but honestly I'm content with the Series X / Emulation combo for even cheaper than this device. What's the advantage to this device other than emulating on any other device?

 

[RoadHazard]

Should a noob (with some RPi experience etc) just get one of these complete kits, or do you save a lot of money buying just the parts you need and assembling it yourself?

Classic MiSTer – Compact and Powerful FPGA – Ultimate Mister FPGA

Official MiSTer Setups include everything you need! It comes fully assembled and ready to play - all cores installed, simply populate your SDCard with your favorite games and configure your control…

ultimatemister.com

 

[Lasha]

Should a noob (with some RPi experience etc) just get one of these complete kits, or do you save a lot of money buying just the parts you need and assembling it yourself?

Classic MiSTer – Compact and Powerful FPGA – Ultimate Mister FPGA

Official MiSTer Setups include everything you need! It comes fully assembled and ready to play - all cores installed, simply populate your SDCard with your favorite games and configure your control…

ultimatemister.com

Complete noob should buy the DE-10 nano and mess around first. The kits and add-ons are there for convenience more than anything. Most cores run without the SD RAM module. Only stuff like arcade, PS, and Neo Geo require the extra ram.

 

[TheGecko]

It's still emulation. Say what you want but I'd tell the difference playing on og hardware compared to anything else anytime of the day.

 

[RoadHazard]

Complete noob should buy the DE-10 nano and mess around first. The kits and add-ons are there for convenience more than anything. Most cores run without the SD RAM module. Only stuff like arcade, PS, and Neo Geo require the extra ram.

But is it really enough to have ONLY that? Don't you at least need some USB ports, a fan, etc?

 

[SScorpio]

Complete noob should buy the DE-10 nano and mess around first. The kits and add-ons are there for convenience more than anything. Most cores run without the SD RAM module. Only stuff like arcade, PS, and Neo Geo require the extra ram.

That's incorrect, most cores need the SDRAM module. Atari 5200, GBA, Genesis, and PCE/TG16 are pretty much all that work without it.

But DE10-Nano, SDRAM, and $5 OTG USB Hub are all you need to get started and you can run all cores.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Cores-that-use-SDRAM

 

[Lasha]

But is it really enough to have ONLY that? Don't you at least need some USB ports, a fan, etc?

The DE10 nano has a USB port, HDMI port, and similar built in. The ram is really the only dedicated add on you will need to buy. Buying just the DE10 is safer because you can easily sell it if you don't like it. The other accessories are harder to move second hand.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

What's the advantage to this device other than emulating on any other device?

1:1 emulation (hardware emulation).

 

[nkarafo]

Say what you want but I'd tell the difference playing on og hardware compared to anything else anytime of the day.

Doubt.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Doubt.

LMAO yeah seriously. Dude came in here trying to sound bad ass, but...

 

[8BiTw0LF]

It's still emulation. Say what you want but I'd tell the difference playing on og hardware compared to anything else anytime of the day.

You can call it emulation, but then most things you use today - like cars, phones, computers and so on are all emulators.

 

[TheGecko]

You can call it emulation, but then most things you use today - like cars, phones, computers and so on are all emulators.

We aren't talking about those though are we.

If you want to emulate then great but like the posters above acting like dick heads anoy me. I personally have the og hardware I play games on.

 

[TheGecko]

LMAO yeah seriously. Dude came in here trying to sound bad ass, but...

I'm not the one clowning myself with fake hardware am I.

 

[Pejo]

Great video, your review of the MiSTer seems glowing. I'm not a purist in retro gaming, so emulators are 99% usually enough for me, but if I ever find a decent CRT in a Goodwill or friend's basement or something, I'd be interested in looking at the MiSTer. The price of entry is just a bit steep for playing on the same digital/HD displays I already have my PC connected to.

Btw, what's the game at 7:17?

 

[8BiTw0LF]

We aren't talking about those though are we.

If you want to emulate then great but like the posters above acting like dick heads anoy me. I personally have the og hardware I play games on.

Yes we're talking about FPGA.

OG hardware is good, but not for preservation. FPGA is the future of retro gaming.

MVG made a great video some time ago:

 

[Harlock]

There are videos side by side comparing Mister vs Retropie, for example?

 

[8BiTw0LF]

There are videos side by side comparing Mister vs Retropie, for example?

Yes OP made a video:

 

[Akuji]

Can you give me a list of what i need for NES/SNES/PS1/N64 so i can plug in USB controllers and output video via VGA / SCART RGB and Stereo Chinch / 3,5mm?
I have an nice CRT here and wanted to do an Arcade Machine build out of it. Maybe its time.

 

[nkarafo]

FPGA is the future of retro gaming.

Yeah, not really.

Because these are hardware too. Which means some day they will stop being produced and the ones that got sold will eventually die. Same issue with the real consoles.

Open source software emulation is the real future of retro gaming. It can work on many more systems and can last forever as long as someone is willing to update the code to work on future operating systems.

Yes OP made a video:

This comparison is Mister VS FBA in particular. Not VS Retropie or software emulation in general. Current MAME (not the Retropie garbage) is probably better than FBA accuracy wise. And definitely better input lag wise (i measured it myself, FBA and FBNeo add 1 frame of lag). So i think OP's comparison is a bit biased in favor of Mister or he just didn't know MAME is better than FBA.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Yeah, not really.

Because these are hardware too. Which means some day they will stop being produced and the remaining ones will eventually die.

Open source software emulation is the real future of retro gaming. It can work on many more systems and can last forever as long as someone is always willing to update the code to work on future operating systems.

Same goes for FPGA - it's all in the cores. The chips can variate going forward, but there will always be a solution - unless we go all-digital in the future and all the corporations own the hardware and we just rent it through the cloud.

 

[nkarafo]

Same goes for FPGA - it's all in the cores. The chips can variate going forward, but there will always be a solution - unless we go all-digital in the future and all the corporations own the hardware and we just rent it through the cloud.

Is the code for the FPGA cores open source?

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Is the code for the FPGA cores open source?

Yessir

 

[nkarafo]

Yessir

Good. That means i was wrong and they are just as future proof as open source software emulators. As long as someone is willing to produce a FPGA device that is. Though, software emulators can be made to run on many different existing devices and systems. Like how there's a version of Retroarch on almost every OS in existence, including some old, obsolete ones just for fun. And even on a bunch of consoles, for instance RetroArch works on the XBOX Series S/X.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

This comparison is Mister VS FBA in particular. Not VS Retropie or software emulation in general. Current MAME (not the Retropie garbage) is probably better than FBA accuracy wise. And definitely better input lag wise (i measured it myself, FBA and FBNeo add 1 frame of lag). So i think OP's comparison is a bit biased in favor of Mister or he just didn't know MAME is better than FBA.

Sure, some systems will run better - just not as great as FPGA handles emulation, cause it has 1:1 cycle accuracy.

Good. That means i was wrong and they are just as future proof as open source software emulators. As long as someone is willing to produce a FPGA device that is. Though, software emulators can be made to run on many different existing devices and systems. Like how there's a version of Retroarch on almost every OS in existence, including some old, obsolete ones just for fun. And even on a bunch of consoles, for instance RetroArch works on the XBOX Series S/X.

I'm all for software emulation - but even on my $2K PC some games just won't run optimal. It's either the sound or occassional dips in framerate that pulls me out of the experience. FPGA is for purists.

 

[nkarafo]

Sure, some systems will run better - just not as great as FPGA handles emulation, cause it has 1:1 cycle accuracy.

Can be done in software. There are already emulators that do it. Cycle accurate.

I'm all for software emulation - but even on my $2K PC some games just won't run optimal. It's either the sound or occassional dips in framerate that pulls me out of the experience. FPGA is for purists.

But that's not an issue with software emulators. You must be doing something wrong. Need some specific examples and emulators.

I emulate more than 40 systems on my PC setup and my PC isn't worth even 1/5 of yours. I have no hitches, no sound issues, no frame rate/frame pacing issues. Only perfect, fluid game native frame rate (VRR helps). I'm as purist as one can get (i even use CRT monitors sometimes, as secondary screens, to avoid the dreaded motion blur) and i'm very sensitive to even the most minor issues. But right now, software emulation covers me almost 100% (except for the Saturn and the Atari Jaguar. One has unsolved input lag issues and the other still doesn't have a good open source emulator).

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Can be done in software. There are already emulators that do it. Cycle accurate.

Which ones?

But that's not an issue with software emulators. You must be doing something wrong. Need some specific examples and emulators.

Literally every game on PC-Engine, Genesis and Gameboy Advance has sound issues - like a hissing flat sound. Missing that 'oomphh' from the original systems. Some CPS2 games (mostly fighting games) have occasional dips in framerate - not present in the original games.
I run everything from RetroArch with updated cores.

I emulate more than 40 systems on my PC setup and my PC isn't worth even 1/5 of yours. I have no hitches, no sound issues, no frame rate/frame pacing issues. Only perfect, fluid game native frame rate (VRR helps). I'm as purist as one can get (i even use CRT monitors sometimes, as secondary screens, to avoid the dreaded motion blur) and i'm very sensitive to even the most minor issues. But right now, software emulation covers me almost 100% (except for the Saturn and the Atari Jaguar. One has unsolved input lag issues and the other still doesn't have a good open source emulator).

Hey good for you man, but my experince is not the same - so I'm really considering a Mister to scratch my retro butt.

 

[Mess]

Whatever all the details may be, I do very much agree with nkarafo that some of the alleged "drawbacks" of software based emulation are kind of a lie.

Input lag is a myth; in my experience, the BIGGEST myth. If it exists, I'm not sure what the hell people are talking about, because I play high-rate fighting games and I'm able to pull off moves and counters. So I have no idea why people parrot this shit, some people border on being NPCs I guess.

Lack of accuracy is a myth. There hasn't been one emulator on PC that I've tried that I've thought "ok now that's inaccurate." Maybe people have finely tuned vision and hearing or something, or usually just play a Genesis emulator (I've read that apparently sound is a big issue in Genesis emulators), but I haven't really run into issues when playing console emulators.

Combined with plenty of choices that enhance both 2D/pixel games (scanlines, shaders, etc) and 3D games (higher than native resolution, widescreen support, etc) software emulation gaming on PC is AWESOME.

That's not to knock MiSTer, it frankly sounds cool. I just don't want it to be a zero sum game where MiSTer gets praised at the cost of shitting on software emulation on PC.

Overall software emulation is fantastic but if you're talking fighting games, vampire savior for exemple is slightly faster on fightcade and sometimes behaves very slightly differently hence why offline tourneys were played on real hardware. Recently mister got popular because of its accuracy and how easier it is to find & carry compared to a CPS2. That's a niche usage for sure but ye it's more accurate.

 

[nkarafo]

Which ones?

HIGAN/BSNES is cycle accurate for the SNES. BlastEM/Exodus are for the Genesis. There are others for older systems and some i don't know/remember.

There are other emulators/cores that aim for accuracy but not necessarily cycle accuracy (which isn't necessary for accurate emulation anyway).

Also, keep in mind that even though Mister FPGAs aim for cycle accuracy, it doesn't mean they always do it perfectly.

Literally every game on PC-Engine, Genesis and Gameboy Advance has sound issues - like a hissing flat sound. Missing that 'oomphh' from the original systems. Some CPS2 games (mostly fighting games) have occasional dips in framerate - not present in the original games.

Not sure what you mean. Have you tried a core/emulator on the Genesis using the "NUKED" sound option? The GBA had crappy sound even on the real hardware so i'm not sure what you are looking for. I don't have a real PC-Engine so i can't comment on that. Also, a VRR monitor will solve all your frame rate issues.

Hey good for you man, but my experince is not the same - so I'm really considering a Mister to scratch my retro butt.

My point was that our experiences are different because we are using the software emulators differently. It's not the fault of the software emulator that it doesn't sync perfectly with your 60hz panel. If the real game runs at an odd 57hz, you are going to get such issues and hitches. And i don't see how Mister wouldn't have the same issues if it's accurate and runs the game at the same odd frame rate.

I also had such issues in the past but they were all 100% solved with a VRR monitor. It can display all these odd arcade refresh rates without hitching and without messing with the game speed. I get smooth scrolling in every game that's supposed to have smooth scrolling. Again, it's not the emulator's fault, it's how your whole setup is configured and what monitor you are using.

on fightcade

Yeah, that's another device that doesn't use a good software emulator.

Otherwise the game runs perfectly fine on current MAME.

 

[VGEsoterica]

Great video, your review of the MiSTer seems glowing. I'm not a purist in retro gaming, so emulators are 99% usually enough for me, but if I ever find a decent CRT in a Goodwill or friend's basement or something, I'd be interested in looking at the MiSTer. The price of entry is just a bit steep for playing on the same digital/HD displays I already have my PC connected to.

Btw, what's the game at 7:17?

ESP Ra.DE

CAVE 68K core

 

[lostinblue]

Obviously I make no money off anyone buying a MiSTer...so I am no shill...but damn it everyone should seriously own one of these things if they even had a remote interest in retro gaming.

How much?

 

[8BiTw0LF]

HIGAN/BSNES is cycle accurate for the SNES. BlastEM is for the Genesis. There are others for very old systems and some i don't know/remember.

There are other emulators/cores that aim for accuracy but not necessarily cycle accuracy.

Also, keep in mind that even though Mister FPGAs aim for cycle accuracy, it doesn't mean they always do it perfectly.

All those emulators are aiming for cycle-level accuracy - they are not 1:1 cycle accurate like some of the cores on FPGA.

Not all cores are perfect yet, but they will be eventually - software will have a much harder time being perfect, cause it's based on a game to game basis.

Not sure what you mean. Have you tried a core/emulator on the Genesis using the "NUKED" sound option? The GBA had crappy sound even on the real hardware so i'm not sure what you are looking for. I don't have a real PC-Engine so i can't comment on that.

Yes I've tried the nuked option - it's like adding a fake bass to the sound - not like original sound.
The GBA had good sound if you used headphones (not available on SP).

My point was that our experiences are different because we are using the software emulators differently. It's not the fault of the software emulator that it doesn't sync perfectly with your 60hz panel. If the real game runs at an odd 57hz, you are going to get such issues and hitches. And i don't see how Mister wouldn't have the same issues if it's accurate and runs the game at the same odd frame rate.

I also had such issues in the past but they were all 100% solved with a VRR monitor. It can display all these odd arcade refresh rates without hitching and without messing with the game speed. I get smooth scrolling in every game that's supposed to have smooth scrolling. Again, it's not the emulator's fault, it's how your whole setup is configured and what monitor you are using.

You can always limit your monitors refresh rate on a game basis. I don't think you have some magical super powered emulation system - I think our tolerance for issues are different.

I would never use VRR for retro games - and I don't know why you would if you call yourself a purist. I would use backlight strobing.

 

[SScorpio]

There are videos side by side comparing Mister vs Retropie, for example?

Yes, there are even videos that compare MiSTer vs original hardware vs emulators.

With some of the cores, people have run MiSTer vs original hardware side-by-side tests with attract modes looping for over 24 hours and the MiSTer cores stayed in sync.

How much?

DE10-Nano's are running $190-200 now, and the pretty much-required SDRAM module is $60 for the maxed-out 128MB one. Then you also need an OTG USB Hub which can be as low as $5 off Amazon, and you can always get nicer add-ons from there.

But that gets you a lot of arcade cores: https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/cores/arcade/

Console: https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/cores/console/

And Computers: https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/cores/computer/

 

[VGEsoterica]

Yes, there are even videos that compare MiSTer vs original hardware vs emulators.

With some of the cores, people have run MiSTer vs original hardware side-by-side tests with attract modes looping for over 24 hours and the MiSTer cores stayed in sync.











DE10-Nano's are running $190-200 now, and the pretty much-required SDRAM module is $60 for the maxed-out 128MB one. Then you also need an OTG USB Hub which can be as low as $5 off Amazon, and you can always get nicer add-ons from there.

But that gets you a lot of arcade cores: https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/cores/arcade/

Console: https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/cores/console/

And Computers: https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/cores/computer/

Yes it can be done cheaper than my cost. I just had to realistically weight it against what I’ve put in. Only fair way to “review”

You don’t need a triple stack board with the Pi MIDI hat. I think it’s worth it but RAM/NANO/HUB is still a decent price

 

[cartman414]

We aren't talking about those though are we.

If you want to emulate then great but like the posters above acting like dick heads anoy me. I personally have the og hardware I play games on.

Wow, the lack of self awareness here.

I thought the "get a Pi for less money" were bad, but at least they're not malicious.

 

[nkarafo]

All those emulators are aiming for cycle-level accuracy - they are not 1:1 cycle accurate like some of the cores on FPGA.

Higan is even more accurate than any FPGA so whatever. They even used it for reference to fix their own issues.

Yes I've tried the nuked option - it's like adding a fake bass to the sound - not like original sound.

That's not what the NUKED option does.

I would never use VRR for retro games - and I don't know why you would if you call yourself a purist. I would use backlight strobing.

Huh? That's not what VRR does.... The strobing is used to remove the LCD motion blur. VRR is used to sync the monitor/TV with whatever frame rate the source is and isn't stuck to a fixed refresh rate. It's literally used by games to make the screen sync with their own frame rate.

I don't think you have some magical super powered emulation system - I think our tolerance for issues are different.

Sorry, i don't want to sound rude, but from your replies i understand you are not very knowledgeable about the topic. That's not a bad thing but when you don't know as much it's better to not try lecturing others.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Higan is even more accurate than any FPGA so whatever. They even used it for reference to fix their own issues.

You're still referring to this:

Cycle accuracy
Emulating components according to their per-cycle accesses results in cycle-accurate emulation. Each individual component is emulated and mutually synchronized at single-clock resolution, which has a higher CPU cost. The speed of the emulation depends on the way cycle-accuracy is implemented, and it doesn't necessarily mean 100% accuracy.

I'm referring to this (also called 1:1 cycle accuracy):

Chip accuracy
By simulating each logic chip on the board individually, this not only takes a tremendous amount of processing power or specialized hardware to run (as in, even emulating something from the 1970s on a chip accurate level would need AAA-level system requirements to run at a good speed), but it also requires an incredible amount of effort to make, and it's also almost useless. Although it is the only way to achieve true hardware simulation, cycle accurate emulation can already achieve virtually indistinguishable accuracy from the real hardware, aside from a very negligible set of edge cases. In addition, cycle-accurate emulators have much lower system requirements and programming difficulty. The only chip accurate emulators that are currently usable run on Field Programmable Gate Arrays, or FPGAs, which are essentially custom programmable chips. Machines dedicated to this type of emulation exist, such as the Analogue NT Mini by kevtris or the RetroUSB AVS by bunnyboy. Other examples of chip accurate emulation can be found in flash carts such as the SD2SNES, where various add-on chips are emulated on the included FPGA.

And btw all cores for FPGA are developed using (partly) software emulators.

Higan is not more accurate.

That's not what the NUKED option does.

Yes it is - it emulates the soundchips of the different revisions of Genesis.

Huh? That's not what VRR does.... The strobing is used to remove the LCD motion blur. VRR is used to sync the monitor/TV with whatever frame rate the source is and isn't stuck to a fixed refresh rate. It's literally used by games to make the screen sync with their own frame rate.

Does what? What do you think I ment by I would never use VRR for retro games? I know exactly what VRR does and it introduces flickering.

Sorry, i don't want to sound rude, but from your replies i understand you are not very knowledgeable about the topic. That's not a bad thing but when you don't know as much it's better to not try lecturing others.

Riiight..

 

[Mess]

Yeah, that's another device that doesn't use a good software emulator.

Otherwise the game runs perfectly fine on current MAME.

You missed the point. The game may *feel* perfect to you and it prolly does for most people but MAME is even worse for it than FBNeo and is definitly not a good choice for tournament play which is a niche where the mister core shines.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Now that analogue pocket runs openfpga I’ll keep my order and won’t get a MiSter anymore.

 

[nkarafo]

Higan is not more accurate.

Near/Byuu would disagree but what does he know? He was just one of the best emu devs.

And even FPGA devs using HIGAN/BSNES for reference to fix their own bugs.... What do they know?

Does what? What do you think I ment by I would never use VRR for retro games?

You said you use strobing instead of VRR, despite these two functions doing completely different things. You can't replace one with the other. Strobing doesn't fix frame sync issues. VRR doesn't fix LCD motion blur.

I know exactly what VRR does and it introduces flickering.

Flickering you say? That's the first time i ever hear such a thing being caused by VRR. Are you sure you are using it correctly? VRR may stutter a lot if the screen isn't VRR compatible, if that's what you mean by "flickering".

Here's what VRR does for me (as it should) on my 240hz screen. It makes all arcade games with odd refresh rates run smoothly without out of sync stutters or screen tearing and at the correct game speed (because otherwise RA will change the speed of the game to sync with 60hz to avoid these issues, while keeping the sound correct). That's what VRR does to PC games as well. It's what VRR was made for, that's it's purpose. To sync the screen with the content. I don't see how it's not something a purist would use. And if it causes issues to you, it means there's something wrong with your setup.

You missed the point. The game may *feel* perfect to you and it prolly does for most people but MAME is even worse for it than FBNeo and is definitly not a good choice for tournament play which is a niche where the mister core shines.

Ok, i'm really curious though.... What's the issue with this game running on MAME?

I assume you mean current MAME or a current MAME RA core. I hope we are not talking about Retropie's obsolete MAME garbage versions.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Near/Byuu would disagree but what does he know? He was just one of the best emu devs.

And even FPGA devs using HIGAN/BSNES for reference to fix their own bugs.... What do they know?

Every core on FPGA used emulators as references. Doesn't mean emulators are better.

You said you use strobing instead of VRR, despite these two functions doing completely different things. You can't replace one with the other.

I know they're different and not many monitors can do both at the same time - so I would definitely use backlight strobing over VRR. Also make sure your GFX can do pixel perfect ratio scaling - it's a feature on my monitor and retro games look so much better.

Flickering you say? That's the first time i ever hear such a thing being caused by VRR. Are you sure you are using it correctly? VRR may stutter a lot if the screen isn't VRR compatible, if that's what you mean by "flickering".

It's a common issue with VRR to add flickering among other picture issues. If you have a monitor that can do backlight strobing - use that instead.

 

[nkarafo]

Every core on FPGA used emulators as references. Doesn't mean emulators are better.

FPGA devs used HIGAN to measure how accurate their system is, the same way the Parallel RDP dev is using Angylion. If it looks the same as Angrylion, it's correct.

There was an older topic or video where they explained how they found some bugs in the FPGA core that didn't exist on HIGAN and used it as a reference to fix them.

Also, i'm aware of the differences between cycle VS chip accuracy. But i'm not arguing about the methods. I'm arguing about the real world results.

If you have a monitor that can do backlight strobing - use that instead.

Ok i think i understand what your issue is. If you use both VRR and strobing, you get flickering issues, right? So between stutters and motion blur, you choose to fix the motion blur using strobing. But i assume that doesn't fix your syncing frame rate problems. Because that's what VRR does and you disable it.

But here's another thing. Flickering is accurate. That's what CRT TVs do at 60hz (or 50hz PAL). If i reduce my PC CRT monitor to 60hz, to make a console emulated game sync perfectly and avoid stutters, i get flickering. It's normal. Real arcade monitors also flicker. So, in a way, flickering should be something a purist would want.

Whatever the case though, all these issues have nothing to do with the emulators being in software.

 

[dave_d]

Anybody know when that Heber thing will come out? I was thinking of buying a nano and then buying the heber addon so I wouldn't have to figure out what ram, usb hub, and case I'd need to go with it.(I mean unless that thing is way more expensive then just buying the parts.)

 

[VGEsoterica]

Wow, the lack of self awareness here.

I thought the "get a Pi for less money" were bad, but at least they're not malicious.

Standard issue retro gaming fighting

I have every piece of OG hardware. In some instances I have collected some of the rarest and hardest to find hardware items known to exist (including “one in the world” level shit)

I’m fine with emulation. Pi’s. People playing games on their cell phone via emulation.

That’s my mentality. Have fun! And don’t be like me

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Also, i'm aware of the differences between cycle VS chip accuracy. But i'm not arguing about the methods. I'm arguing about the real world results.

Real world results depends on the hardware the emulation should be used for. Like the Mister is undoubtedly best for arcade machines and CRT's - for a monitor there could be many instances where software emulation does a better job - for example adding filters, upscaling and so on.

I would think for my monitor (Eve Spectrum) the Mister would be a better fit - cause it has integrated integer scaling and backlight strobing.

Ok i think i understand what your issue is. If you use both VRR and strobing, you get flickering issues, right? So between stutters and motion blur, you choose to fix the motion blur using strobing. But i assume that doesn't fix your syncing frame rate problems. Because that's what VRR does and you disable it.

But here's another thing. Flickering is accurate. That's what CRT TVs do at 60hz (or 50hz PAL). If i reduce my PC CRT monitor to 60hz, to make a console emulated game sync perfectly and avoid stutters, i get flickering. It's normal. Real arcade monitors also flicker. So, in a way, flickering should be something a purist would want.

Whatever the case though, all these issues have nothing to do with the emulators being in software.

My monitor can't do VRR and backlight strobing at the same time (yet), so that's not what i mean by flickering.

This is what I mean by flickering:

What Is VRR Brightness Flickering And Can You Fix It?

On some high refresh rate monitors (mostly VA), VRR can sometimes cause brightness flickering with FPS fluctuations. It's possible to reduce or fix it.

www.displayninja.com

 

[Grechy34]

I'm not the one clowning myself with fake hardware am I.

You wouldn't ever tell the difference between real hardware and Mister. Sorry mate, just no. I'd go as far to say it's hard to tell with emulation unless you can feel the input lag which on a lot of the mini consoles now is incredibly negligible.

You sound like one of those retro gatekeepers on Youtube 10 years ago who used to make it a point about how real hardware is so much better then emulation and ensure all their hardware maintained value by spouting bullshit. I have all retro hardware and a Mister and I'm sorry to burst your bubble but the Mister is absolutely 1/1.

 

[VGEsoterica]

You wouldn't ever tell the difference between real hardware and Mister. Sorry mate, just no. I'd go as far to say it's hard to tell with emulation unless you can feel the input lag which on a lot of the mini consoles now is incredibly negligible.

You sound like one of those retro gatekeepers on Youtube 10 years ago who used to make it a point about how real hardware is so much better then emulation and ensure all their hardware maintained value by spouting bullshit. I have all retro hardware and a Mister and I'm sorry to burst your bubble but the Mister is absolutely 1/1.

For the majority of the cores yes. The only reason I can tell what’s my MiSTer and what’s my Neo Geo AES is that the MiSTer RGB analog out is better.

And that’s coming from someone with shelves of Neo Geo games that I’ve been collection for 15 years.

Now something like Sharp X68000…it’s my fav core…but it has some bugs still. You can tell that’s not OG hardware