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Kaz: To all our users (about the GT7 servers being down)

What? Looks at this contradiction:

"At the same time the pricing of cars is an important element that conveys their value and rarity, so I do think it’s important for it to be linked with the real world prices.
I want to make GT7 a game in which you can enjoy a variety of cars lots of different ways, and if possible would like to try to avoid a situation where a player must mechanically keep replaying certain events over and over again."


Yes, I understand that because the way GT is, the "mentality" behind the game makes sense for more rare cars to be more difficult to get. Suck it gamers, that's how it yes.
But immediately after he says that he wants players to play with as many cars as possible and they want without having to gring...? WTF KAZ!

Wouldn't be simpler to allow you do use any cars you want on a offline arcade mode?
Ironically, it would make sense if cars were NFTs. Or if the game had any kind of player economy. The way the game is right now the statement makes zero sense tbh.
 

Razvedka

Member
I wonder if part of the car pricing was somehow contractual with the manufacturers. Like they insisted that their IRL prices in some meaningful way be reflected in the game to project quality (as consumers often conflate this with cost). Sony wasn't going to complain since this also turned out to be a huge money gen for them too.

Just one thought, not saying its probable or even what I believe.
 

Three

Member
Yet nobody had to grind races before.. they were doing it because they wanted to earn easier credits.

Look at the wording.. "avoid a situation where players MUST"...

No you wanted to avoid a situation where players CAN easily earn credits.. that's it.

They saw people earning credits faster than they liked, which harms their economy, AKA their money making ability. That's the change.. to make more money.

Any other spin being accepted by anyone is just some fanboy brain worms shit to me.

I'm not even here saying it isn't OK for them to do that.. but just be up front about it. You really aren't helping things with these explanations as nobody in their right mind is going to accept them.
I guess they could have brought everything else up to align them but that would have harmed the in game economy more. they did it for both outliers though, the highest earning per hr races were reduced to be in line with the average and the lowest earning races were increased which leads me to believe that they just saw people grinding the same race over and over. This happened in GT5 too and they nerfed earnings and introduced dailies. As for wording, to gain the most credits you MUST do that race over and over but now you can just play whatever race and gain a similar earning just playing whatever races you like including the ones that were low earning now giving you more.

If it was only about money making ability they could have just set future car prices higher and/or the Cr exchange rate higher to begin with IMO.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Is this guy taking the piss?

If people want to grind the same activities to buy cars in your game that's far more true to real life than artificially telling them they aren't allowed to grind.

What a big fuck you to the community.
You can grind if you wish.

But think a bit about... an Rally event that takes 40s to finish that has the wrong tires gives you 60k credits for prize.
It that really right? That prize if for races with 5 minutes or more.

It was obvious why people where using it to grind.

If you want to increase the prizes so do to all events to be equal.
 
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ManaByte

Member
I wonder if part of the car pricing was somehow contractual with the manufacturers. Like they insisted that their IRL prices in some meaningful way be reflected in the game to project quality (as consumers often conflate this with cost). Sony wasn't going to complain since this also turned out to be a huge money gen for them too.

Just one thought, not saying its probable or even what I believe.

Forza Horizon 5 has similar pricing for their licensed cars. But that game hands out credits like crazy and you never have a problem earning enough to get the cars you want.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
What a shitshow. Getting flashbacks to when the last Sim City was always online, and people said the only way it could work was always online…. then they patched out the always online.
 

Turk1993

Member
Interviewer: So you say that you whant players to enjoy all the cars, correct?
Translator looking at KAZ: Yes correct!
Interviewer: But why did you make it harder to earn credits than?
Translator: Not me, he did it ask him!
KAZ smirking: はははは はい私はしました
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Forza Horizon 5 has similar pricing for their licensed cars. But that game hands out credits like crazy and you never have a problem earning enough to get the cars you want.


As a kid I used to do all the endurance races and grind out races in GT2 and GT3. As an adult with limited time I much prefer the FH approach of just showering you with cars and money constantly.
 

ethomaz

Banned
If the bug is that rare, why bother shutting it down for everyone?
From what I understand is because the bug corrupted the saving.
So if you play the patch 1.07 you have the chance to lose all progress.
They wanted to avoid that and choose the downtime.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Just make the single player offline and save some headache kaz
exactly GIF



THIS is why single player games needing an online connection is STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate some of you people that find no issue with it.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I guess they could have brought everything else up to align them but that would have harmed the in game economy more. they did it for both outliers though, the highest earning per hr races were reduced to be in line with the average and the lowest earning races were increased which leads me to believe that they just saw people grinding the same race over and over. This happened in GT5 too and they nerfed earnings and introduced dailies. As for wording, to gain the most credits you MUST do that race over and over but now you can just play whatever race and gain a similar earning just playing whatever races you like including the ones that were low earning now giving you more.

If it was only about money making ability they could have just set future car prices higher and/or the Cr exchange rate higher to begin with IMO.
I just dont have a good response to this because you are wrong. Nobody "must have" done anything before.. they had the ability to do something, now that ability is lessened overall. The 2 races increased still lead to a massive net negative of credits earnable by playing each race once. So how does that make it so players now don't have to (don't must) grind?

It makes the game even more grindy for people who want to earn those high credit amounts.

Literally everything he said is doublespeak. He has the nerve to talk about how they want to make the game so people don't need to spend money, but now made it so it takes longer to earn credits without spending money.

He talks about how previously players "must" grind those races, and now increases the amount of time (grind) it takes to earn the same amount of credits as before.

Not sure how you can say any of that last part when you started your post with "would have harmed the in game economy more." You seem to be aware that this adjustment makes it harder to earn credits... then you make the rest of your post.

"If it was only about money making ability they could have just set future car prices higher and/or the Cr exchange rate higher to begin with IMO."

That's just way more obvious.. and.. not sure if you missed it, they are aligning their prices with the booming classic (and new supercar) car industry.. so the prices will almost certainly go up. Would love to see how they react if the bubble bursts on that market, but it just continues to get more and more ridiculous at this point. The rich are getting richer, recessions rarely effect luxury items, and in fact they often cause that market to increase.. as the rich know they can take advantage of a recession to buy even more of our economy.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Interviewer: So you say that you whant players to enjoy all the cars, correct?
Translator looking at KAZ: Yes correct!
Interviewer: But why did you make it harder to earn credits than?
Translator: Not me, he did it ask him!
KAZ smirking: はははは はい私はしました
That was really funny... where that happen? The face of the reporter lol
 

Swift_Star

Member

Looks like Sony could be in trouble here if someone takes a case against them for being connection dependent.
That's never going to fly, and I don't even care about this game, at all.
But this will NEVER get Sony into trouble.
Do you realize the implication of that?
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Here's the TLDR of my posts.

Kaz: In GT7 I would like to have users enjoy lots of cars and races even without microtransactions.
Reality: It's now harder to earn cars without MTX after this patch.

Kaz: At the same time the pricing of cars is an important element that conveys their value and rarity, so I do think it’s important for it to be linked with the real world prices.
Reality: Well he just left out the part where this will definitely cause prices to rise. This raises the price of cars, so whether you are earning credits or buying them, this makes it harder to enjoy "lots of cars" over time

Kaz: would like to try to avoid a situation where a player must mechanically keep replaying certain events over and over again.
Reality: Making races earn less credits overall actually increases the need to grind to earn "lots of cars", not decrease them. It just means they'll be doing them over and over and over and over again, instead of over and over again.. or maybe switch to grinding different races.
 
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urmie

Member
"At the same time the pricing of cars is an important element that conveys their value and rarity, so I do think it’s important for it to be linked with the real world prices."

Fake digital rarity in video games. Thanks Kaz!

"I know you can't afford these cars in the real world, so we want to simulate that in the digital world as well, it's very important!" - Kaz 2022.
 

SLB1904

Member
Just reporting on what's being presented online. And what's being presented online shows a pretty lopsided skew.
That's the problem. That's is not even 10% of the game. In fact I haven't touch this missions yet. They are a separate from the main campaign of the game
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Stupid, on PS5 you can't even transfer saves to usb, so it'd be a non-issue.
The PS4 can, and thus a cross-gen/cross-play negative strikes in this instance.

They should have just made the PS4 saves server side only. Or just the saves themselves on both and not the single player mode.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I don’t think there is a local save.
The save is the same… online.
I keep shifting between PS5 and PS4 Pro version on PS5 with the new exactly same progress.
There is a local 450MB and some change one, but unsure what it contains.

Probably scapes stuff and liveries.
 

Arthimura

Member
I'm glad I'm not an entitled Karen. I just solved some real life stuff and played Elden Ring.

It's bad that the servers went down for so many hours, it's uncommon but it may happen. When I used to play Blizzard games, mostly World of WarCraft, there was Tuesdays were I couln't play because of the maintenance.

About the online requirement, I'm against it in single player games, but GT has a strong economy and collectible aspect and I prefer having to be online than having to play with cheaters and hackers.
 

Three

Member
I just dont have a good response to this because you are wrong. Nobody "must have" done anything before.. they had the ability to do something, now that ability is lessened overall. The 2 races increased still lead to a massive net negative of credits earnable by playing each race once. So how does that make it so players now don't have to (don't must) grind?
You could be right but I'm just saying I read this in a different way to you:

"would like to try to avoid a situation where a player must mechanically keep replaying certain events over and over again"

"We will in time let you know the update plans for additional content, additional race events and additional features that will constructively resolve this."

To mean we balanced it so that all events have similar earnings now so you don't have to grind specific events over and over and new events are coming soon. Of course lowering the high outliers will always reduce it for people who actually grind the same race over and over. There is no getting around that.

They probably care about engagement numbers too so they don't want a game that's done in a week or 2 but grinding was always a thing before or after this patch. In GT since the beginning of time.
Having specific outliers people do over and over makes it more grindy instead of having more events and keeping the longevity that way.
 

Fatbody

Member
The whole thing is pretty fucked up when you consider the fact that the main appeal of these kind of games for decades has been that the average income person can enjoy a simulation of a car that most will never be able to afford or even ride passenger in. But now they are adding a simulation of that economic reality(using real money!)into the racing sim that you play to escape that reality.

So now your only course of action is to engage in a type of a humiliation ritual where you grind out tracks in a Ford Focus for dozens of hours to buy one car you really like while the few whales who can afford a real life Lambo(or average/low income folks with bad personal finance skills) are the only ones who will pay a 40 dollar micro transaction without blinking an eye.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
To mean we balanced it so that all events have similar earnings now so you don't have to grind specific events over and over and new events are coming soon. Of course lowering the high outliers will always reduce it for people who actually grind the same race over and over. There is no getting around that.
It lowers the overall payout for people who don't grind as well if they run through all of the listed races.

There is no situation where his statement makes any sense, it's doublespeak at best, a lie at worst.

Here I'll do the math. After the bold new price, I'll put the net positive / negative accumulative in bold/italics.


  • World Touring Car 800: 24 heures du Mans Racing Circuit: 5,000 Cr – 70,000 Cr +65,000
  • World Touring Car 800: Monza Circuit: 5,000 Cr – 70,000 Cr +130,000
  • World Rally Challenge: Alsace Village: 50,000 Cr – 30,000 Cr +110,000
  • Dirt Champions: Fisherman’s Ranch: 65,000 Cr – 30,000 Cr +75,000
  • Dirt Champions: Sardegna Windmills: 65,000 Cr – 40,000 Cr +50,000
  • Dirt Champions: Colorado Springs Lake: 65,000 Cr – 40,000 Cr +25,000
  • GT Cup Gr. 4: HIgh-Speed Ring: 65,000 Cr – 35,000 Cr -5,000
  • GT Cup Gr. 4: Brands Hatch GP Circuit: 65,000 Cr – 45,000 Cr -25,000
  • GT Cup Gr. 3: Spa Francorchamps: 75,000 Cr – 50,000 Cr -50,000
  • GT Cup Gr. 3: Suzuka Circuit: 75,000 Cr – 50,000 Cr -75,000
  • GT Cup Gr. 3: Autodrome Lago Maggiore: 75,000 Cr – 50,000 Cr -10,000
  • Clubman Cup Plus: High Speed Ring: 35,000 Cr – 25,000 Cr -110,000
  • Clubman Cup Plus: Tsukuba Circuit: 35,000 Cr – 25,000 Cr -120,000
  • Clubman Cup Plus: Goodwood: 35,000 Cr – 12,000 Cr -143,000
  • American Clubman Cup 700: Special Stage Route X: 30,000 Cr – 15,000 Cr -158,000
  • American FR Challenge 550: Blue Moon Bay Speedway : 15,000 Cr – 10,000 Cr -163,000
  • American FR Challenge 550: Weathertech Raceway Laguna Seca: 15,000 Cr – 10,000 Cr -168,000
  • American FR Challenge 550: Willow Springs Raceway: 15,000 Cr – 10,000 Cr -173,000


The changes remover 173,000 total credits.

edit Fixed some math, also to note, if you factor in how much more difficult the "World Tour" races are which saw credit increases, and with each "failure" your time penalty is far higher.. it effectively tips these numbers even further.

Now does this make the game a horrible grind fest? I don't know, that's not my argument..

My argument is that his statement is some skeevy businessman BS lol
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
It lowers the overall payout for people who don't grind as well if they run through all of the listed races.

There is no situation where his statement makes any sense, it's doublespeak at best, a lie at worst.

Here I'll do the math. After the bold new price, I'll put the net positive / negative accumulative in bold/italics.


  • World Touring Car 800: 24 heures du Mans Racing Circuit: 5,000 Cr – 70,000 Cr +65,000
  • World Touring Car 800: Monza Circuit: 5,000 Cr – 70,000 Cr +130,000
  • World Rally Challenge: Alsace Village: 50,000 Cr – 30,000 Cr +110,000
  • Dirt Champions: Fisherman’s Ranch: 65,000 Cr – 30,000 Cr +75,000
  • Dirt Champions: Sardegna Windmills: 65,000 Cr – 40,000 Cr +50,000
  • Dirt Champions: Colorado Springs Lake: 65,000 Cr – 40,000 Cr +35,000
  • GT Cup Gr. 4: HIgh-Speed Ring: 65,000 Cr – 35,000 Cr +5,000
  • GT Cup Gr. 4: Brands Hatch GP Circuit: 65,000 Cr – 45,000 Cr -15,000
  • GT Cup Gr. 3: Spa Francorchamps: 75,000 Cr – 50,000 Cr -40,000
  • GT Cup Gr. 3: Suzuka Circuit: 75,000 Cr – 50,000 Cr -65,000
  • GT Cup Gr. 3: Autodrome Lago Maggiore: 75,000 Cr – 50,000 Cr -90,000
  • Clubman Cup Plus: High Speed Ring: 35,000 Cr – 25,000 Cr -100,000
  • Clubman Cup Plus: Tsukuba Circuit: 35,000 Cr – 25,000 Cr -110,000
  • Clubman Cup Plus: Goodwood: 35,000 Cr – 12,000 Cr -133,000
  • American Clubman Cup 700: Special Stage Route X: 30,000 Cr – 15,000 Cr -148,000
  • American FR Challenge 550: Blue Moon Bay Speedway : 15,000 Cr – 10,000 Cr -153,000
  • American FR Challenge 550: Weathertech Raceway Laguna Seca: 15,000 Cr – 10,000 Cr -158,000
  • American FR Challenge 550: Willow Springs Raceway: 15,000 Cr – 10,000 Cr -163,000


The changes remover 163,000 total credits.

edit: Actually checking my math, I missed a -10,000 and another -10,00 so the grand total is actually 183,000 removed credits. I'll fix the chart in a second.

Now does this make the game a horrible grind fest? I don't know, that's not my argument..

My argument is that his statement is some skeevy businessman BS lol
By the looks of it, if someone is a World Tour player, the boost is awesome. If someone doesn't do World Tour events, your credits dropped like a rock.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
By the looks of it, if someone is a World Tour player, the boost is awesome. If someone doesn't do World Tour events, your credits dropped like a rock.
Don't these races take an enormous amount of time?

It does make sense to raise them.. and it evens the races out better.

It also in general does the opposite of what Kaz is saying lol

Yes you are now more rewarded for those insanely long races, that are also from what I've read, incredibly hard to "beat"... but the overall economy saw a 173,000 credit decline for those just "going through all of the races w/o grinding."

AKA more grinding required. Nobody is going to "grind" world tour races.. and if they were, well, now this just increases the chance.. they'll play the same races over and over lol

Grind is about credits earned for your time and the ease at which you can earn those credits.. to increase the credits earned with longer, more difficult races, but decrease them on the shorter/easier races means ... more grind to earn the same credits, not less grind.

His statement DOES apply to the rising of the World Tour races, it does not, overall work, in any way, due to the massive nerfing of the other races.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Makes sense then the World Tours get giant boost. Must had been a programming typo or quirk to be only 5000. It's like they missed a zero.
 
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Yes, they nerfed all but 2. First 2 got increases, but the rest all got nerfed.


  • World Touring Car 800: 24 heures du Mans Racing Circuit: 5,000 Cr – 70,000 Cr
  • World Touring Car 800: Monza Circuit: 5,000 Cr – 70,000 Cr
  • World Rally Challenge: Alsace Village: 50,000 Cr – 30,000 Cr
  • Dirt Champions: Fisherman’s Ranch: 65,000 Cr – 30,000 Cr
  • Dirt Champions: Sardegna Windmills: 65,000 Cr – 40,000 Cr
  • Dirt Champions: Colorado Springs Lake: 65,000 Cr – 40,000 Cr
  • GT Cup Gr. 4: HIgh-Speed Ring: 65,000 Cr – 35,000 Cr
  • GT Cup Gr. 4: Brands Hatch GP Circuit: 65,000 Cr – 45,000 Cr
  • GT Cup Gr. 3: Spa Francorchamps: 75,000 Cr – 50,000 Cr
  • GT Cup Gr. 3: Suzuka Circuit: 75,000 Cr – 50,000 Cr
  • GT Cup Gr. 3: Autodrome Lago Maggiore: 75,000 Cr – 50,000 Cr
  • Clubman Cup Plus: High Speed Ring: 35,000 Cr – 25,000 Cr
  • Clubman Cup Plus: Tsukuba Circuit: 35,000 Cr – 25,000 Cr
  • Clubman Cup Plus: Goodwood: 35,000 Cr – 12,000 Cr
  • American Clubman Cup 700: Special Stage Route X: 30,000 Cr – 15,000 Cr
  • American FR Challenge 550: Blue Moon Bay Speedway : 15,000 Cr – 10,000 Cr
  • American FR Challenge 550: Weathertech Raceway Laguna Seca: 15,000 Cr – 10,000 Cr
  • American FR Challenge 550: Willow Springs Raceway: 15,000 Cr – 10,000 Cr
Ridiculous. And reviews were already complaining mildly about how hard credits were hard to come by.

For them to be nerfed this way, and the price of microtransactions not being in line with GT Sports as originally implied to reviewers should warrant revised scores until Polyphony caves in.
These are also only a handful of events. There are many more that have not changed at all.
Even if they didn't change any of those, the balance of the game already had a foot in the "credits are supposed to be hard to earn, but we sell them for a price" camp.

When what you have already feel like a tilted scale, the rebalancing has to go the other way to negate, otherwise, even if it's small, it to the unbalancing in no small way.

The list shows it's not even neutral (most of the changes are nerfs), so yeah, whether you like it or not, it tips the whole game in one direction.
Yes you are now more rewarded for those insanely long races, that are also from what I've read, incredibly hard to "beat"... but the overall economy saw a 173,000 credit decline for those just "going through all of the races w/o grinding."
I'm sure it's realistic, because of inflation and increasing gas prices.
 
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Lognor

Banned
They will make themself look like clowns, if they do that.

The entire point of the always online, was to stop "hackers, and cheaters".
Fuck them if they're that concerned with hackers or cheaters. If you're playing single player they shouldn't give a fuck if you're cheating. SMH

And okay, maybe to console warriors they will look like clowns. Much like maybe Microsoft looked like clowns when they walked about the required online for the Xbox One, but that was absolutely the right decision then and it's the right decision for Sony now. Who cares if they look like clowns in the short term? Keeping it online only in the long term will damage them more.
 

Three

Member
Now does this make the game a horrible grind fest? I don't know, that's not my argument..My argument is that his statement is some skeevy businessman BS lol
-183,000 credits is barely anything for somebody playing normally . You can get this by doing the first race that saw the 65,000 increase just 3 times if you're a grinder. I hope they even change it so that there is actually a net gain over these specific races to make people happy but do you honestly think that for people not grinding this affects the economy in any substantial way, 3 more races? IMO what he says has some truth even if there is some skevy businessman agenda. This balancing will prevent grinding the same event over and over and just play whatever race you want earning the same as everyone else, or new events that will hopefully come so that you have enjoyable content playing the game earning you the same amount rather than grinding the same outlier race for the sake of Cr.
 
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GHG

Member
"At the same time the pricing of cars is an important element that conveys their value and rarity, so I do think it’s important for it to be linked with the real world prices."

Fake digital rarity in video games. Thanks Kaz!

"I know you can't afford these cars in the real world, so we want to simulate that in the digital world as well, it's very important!" - Kaz 2022.

The fake digital rarity factor actually makes it more likely for people who really want those cars to use microtransactions to get them just for the" exclusive" factor.

This guy knows what he's doing and he must think we're stupid. He can get fucked.
 

kingfey

Banned
Fuck them if they're that concerned with hackers or cheaters. If you're playing single player they shouldn't give a fuck if you're cheating. SMH

And okay, maybe to console warriors they will look like clowns. Much like maybe Microsoft looked like clowns when they walked about the required online for the Xbox One, but that was absolutely the right decision then and it's the right decision for Sony now. Who cares if they look like clowns in the short term? Keeping it online only in the long term will damage them more.
2014, yes. 2022, nope.
People have been trained to tolerate this behavior, that it become the normie behavior.

Right now, their biggest worry would be PR backlash, if they removed that online function.
 

22•22

Doesnt need recognition

Looks like Sony could be in trouble here if someone takes a case against them for being connection dependent.

"Sony in trouble"

Bro what are you doing roleplaying as a no one asked for wannabe low tier market analyst fear mongering reaction hungry whatever

Jim's not your friend. Things said are performative. Businesses is business. I bet you take politicians words for truth, holy shit. They only care for us as much as they're allowed to. Get with it.

Kisses
 
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