Support NeoGAF

[InverseAgonist]

The lab theory is (a) unprovable, and (b) not also applied to SARS and MERS, which are very similar coronaviruses, but lacking the proximity of a research facility. Meanwhile, bats (a potential source of coronaviruses) inhabit every continent on the planet outside of Antarctica, and probably most of the Pacific Islands. Quite possibly the widest-spread animal on the planet. I like Jon, but his argument here is incredibly weak.

And I would posit that there is no good that comes from discussion, partly due to (a) above, but mostly due to the fact that it only serves to further the stigma against Asian communities. It's a theory that will never be proven true, and yet Asians can never prove it false. All they end up doing is catching L's for no good reason than to make some people feel better about their distrust of China. You can distrust them without continuing to push this pointless theory. As a victim of baseless stereotypes, I empathize with their community.

This is the exact wrong way to approach this question. It's a scientific question. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

Where did the codon sequence (double CGG) for the double arginine emerge from? For background, see: Link

Where did the furin cleavage site emerge from, given SARS-Cov2's nearest coronavirus neighbors that have been sequenced* lack one?

Jon's a comedian, he makes jokes and has allowed this topic to be touchable now. He's done a great service to us all. The science has been clear since the beginning, even Anthony Fauci's disclosed emails show that since early on he was talking to collaborators about odd aspects of this virus and how it's possibly been synthetically created. From 2014-19, the National Institutes of Health sent $3.4 million to the Wuhan Institute of Viology through the nonprofit EcoHealth Alliance led by Peter Daszak for research that is basically gain-of-function (although Fauci likes to linguistically claim it's not in the same way Clinton said oral isn't sex) and making coronaviruses use the ACE2 receptor on humanized mice. Daszak being the American sent to Wuhan to look into the origin story, of course. These are all individuals with personal connections and interests in seeing certain preferred stories being made into history to protect their fact actions.

Jon could have pointed all this out, but he's not there to make a compelling case as in a court of law, he's there to make a rational decision on a topic (which he did) then make it funny and relatable to a mainstream audience (which he did). Well done sir.

Also, quickly, on the topic of the Asian community. I, just as much as anyone, abhor the stigmatization of a community, but that should never prevent the search for truth. There can be no convenient oversights in this. We must seek truth in science and our knowledge about this world, not only for those that perished due to COVID, but to ensure that this never happens again and for the pursuit of truth in and of itself.

*I'll grant you that corona-virus space, like chemical space, is vast and the number of potential variants is astronomical. That said, the fact that we have yet to find one -- even from nearby wet markets -- is telling. And we'll never know if the Wuhan Institute had a more similar strain since they deleted the catalog of viruses they contained. Convenient that.

 

[EverydayBeast]

I doubt the origins of COVID will ever be proven it’s like the home run record in mlb, it ain’t being broken.

 

[Boss Mog]

Because that’s the way we label the human disease. Sars-Cov2 (technical name) has been identified in bats.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21240-1

It’s a perfectly reasonable hypothesis to say that Covid 19 could have originated in bats or other fauna. After all, that’s how an awful lot of diseases get into humans.

It's now pretty much proven to be man made according to scientists.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Croatoan]

Man made means someone is responsible and lawsuits/criminal hearings will start. Man made could mean WW3 and mutually assured destruction. Pray it isn't man made because if the world turns on China, then the CPP will kill us all. That said I believe it is man made, but I don't believe it was intentionally released.

 

[infinitys_7th]

The lab theory is (a) unprovable, and (b) not also applied to SARS and MERS, which are very similar coronaviruses, but lacking the proximity of a research facility. Meanwhile, bats (a potential source of coronaviruses) inhabit every continent on the planet outside of Antarctica, and probably most of the Pacific Islands. Quite possibly the widest-spread animal on the planet. I like Jon, but his argument here is incredibly weak.

Bats being widespread strengthens his argument, not lessens. Bats probably shit on your doorstep, on your neighbors, their dogs play with dead bats, etc., and that contact holds true across the world. . .but COVID-19 just happened to pop up a block away from a virology lab China is desparately hiding info on. And their hiding info is very much able to be taken into consideration and be held against them.

 

[Boston]

Because that’s the way we label the human disease. Sars-Cov2 (technical name) has been identified in bats.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21240-1

It’s a perfectly reasonable hypothesis to say that Covid 19 could have originated in bats or other fauna. After all, that’s how an awful lot of diseases get into humans.

I figured it had a different name in animals but does Sars-cov2 directly translate over to Covid 19 in humans? Wouldn’t that be the smoking gun? What I’ve read so far is that that’s not the case.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

(b) not also applied to SARS and MERS, which are very similar coronaviruses, but lacking the proximity of a research facility.

The jump from animals to humans for those two could be clearly explained within a year of their outbreaks.

 

[Raven117]

Im shocked, I tell you.

Look, Stewart (who is far from a scientist), is simply pointing out that it is absolutely 1000 percent a possible theory of the origins of Covid-19. Anybody with any sense at all without a lick of scientific training could say that it was at least possible and warranted scientific study. Who knows what will ultimately be the case, but to say its all a "conspiracy theory" especially at such an early stage, needs to be discredited as a scientist as they are betraying their own training for political expediency.

The real story here (besides China potentially being responsible for this...but not much will come of that), is that we had the scientific community actively smear any of there other scientists for doing their job (ie, research all plausible explanations for an observable event), and then have YouTube/Google Facebook, etc. actively ban people for questioning the narrative that they came up with. Why they did this....we can debate for months.

This is what is absolutely terrifying about the whole thing. Democracy and freedom will die (in silence) if we allow this type of control over communication systems to continue.

 

[FunkMiller]

I figured it had a different name in animals but does Sars-cov2 directly translate over to Covid 19 in humans? Wouldn’t that be the smoking gun? What I’ve read so far is that that’s not the case.

It does… but they don’t have that smoking gun, as you say. And probably never will have, thanks to the lack if cooperation from the Chinese Communist Party

 

[FunkMiller]

I doubt the origins of COVID will ever be proven it’s like the home run record in mlb, it ain’t being broken.

This is very probably true. I see an awful lot of people wasting an awful lot of their time trying to prove the origin one way or another.

The fact is there is no hard evidence at all that our governments have access to. And probably never will be.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I see an awful lot of people wasting an awful lot of their time trying to prove the origin one way or another.

Probably because it is extremely important to find out the true origins.

 

[FunkMiller]

Probably because it is extremely important to find out the true origins.

Which, without full cooperation from the CCP, is never going to happen. Best we can do is start pushing back against them as retaliation for the cover up (whatever that actual cover up was. Again, we’ll never know). It really is a waste of time trying to piece it together when no one has all the facts.

 

[LegendOfKage]

This is very probably true. I see an awful lot of people wasting an awful lot of their time trying to prove the origin one way or another.

The fact is there is no hard evidence at all that our governments have access to. And probably never will be.

The concern shouldn't be did it leak, which would be hard to prove. The concern should be could it have leaked, who lied about a possible leak, who lied about lab conditions, who lied about the research, who had a personal investment in funding the research, what should happen to those who lied, and most importantly should the US stop all funding for that sort of research.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Implying that the Chinese eat anything and bat soup is why there is COVID-19 is FAR more racist than an accidental lab leak doing gain of function research...

Just wanted you to know that Krystal Ball made the same point in the above video.

 

[Raven117]

Which, without full cooperation from the CCP, is never going to happen. Best we can do is start pushing back against them as retaliation for the cover up (whatever that actual cover up was. Again, we’ll never know). It really is a waste of time trying to piece it together when no one has all the facts.

Our scientists are pretty damn brilliant. I wouldn't rule it out that they can figure it out without the cooperation of the CCP.

Regardless, as it was stated. The story is how "science" (really, just politics masquerading as science) and "big tech/media" let us all down by not researching this at all, not conducting their own research, and branding anyone that questioned their narrative as a conspiracy theorist. You don't think that is something that needs to be vetted? Something that needs to be addressed in society at large?

We have been here before....humanity has a bad habit or silencing dissenting opinions that goes against the greater narrative.

 

[EviLore]

Though the consensus in the first week of January was that the disease was zoonotic – that is, it had jumped from animals to humans, perhaps through an intermediary host – (which would make Steven the winner), we agreed the possibility of leakage of an altered coronavirus from China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology could not be dismissed. Defying Martin’s hopes for losing, Steven’s hopes for winning, the expert consensus at the time, the satisfaction of bringing closure to an “adversarial collaboration” (an ideal of scientific dispute resolution) and even the possibility of accusations of anti-Asian racism, we agreed to defer settling the bet until the scientific evidence was clearer.

It’s a good thing we did. In the past month the consensus has unravelled and the lab-leak theory has gained traction. In the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, the veteran science journalist Nicholas Wade prosecuted the case. He reported that the Wuhan Institute was conducting “gain-of-function” studies; that Sars-Cov-2 bears signs of such a human-made gain; that three laboratory workers in the institute fell mysteriously ill in autumn 2019; and that no plausible source for zoo-notic transmission has yet been identified.

Though most experts still think zoonosis is the more probable origin story, no open-minded scientist today could insist the case is settled. Anthony Fauci, the US infectious disease chief, has added his voice to those suspecting a cover-up and seeking more openness from the Wuhan scientists. On 27 May Joe Biden called for a report from US intelligence officials to be returned within 90 days.

***

Realistically, given the scientific uncertainty and the deliberate opacity of Chinese authorities, our bet may never be settled. Though this would be enormously frustrating (not so much for us as for science and public health), it is not without some comfort. Proof of a lab leak could, as the legal scholar Stephen Carter noted, “give the coronavirus saga what it’s lacked: a villain”, and “the formless fear that has immobilised most of the world for the last year and a half, at last given a target, might coalesce into fury”. It could also turn people against science and invite crippling, overbroad regulation, slowing progress against disease, death and disability.

Whatever the origin of Covid-19, we can’t rule out lab leakage in the future (recalling, for example, that a serious foot-and-mouth outbreak in the UK was caused by a leakage from the Pirbright laboratory in Surrey in 2007). There is surely a case for enhancing security and independent monitoring of laboratories researching lethal pathogens.

Nor can we rule out the intentional release of a dangerous pathogen. To be sure, governments, and even terrorist groups with specific aims, will always be inhibited from releasing bioweapons because no one can predict where and how far they can spread. The real nightmare is a deranged loner with biotech expertise who believed, say, that there were too many humans on the planet and didn’t care who became infected, or how many. The ultimate bioweapon would combine high lethality, the transmissibility of the common cold and a long asymptomatic period allowing large-scale spreading before countermeasures could be taken.

As Steven has noted, the odds militate against this worst-case scenario. In the real world, technological feats are rarely pulled off by a single evil genius, and complex plots tend to be derailed by mishaps, incompetence, defection and surveillance. But, as Martin has noted, even one feat is too many if its damage cascades globally.

The growing empowerment of tech-savvy groups (or individual hackers) by bio- and cyber-technology will pose an unprecedented challenge to governments and amplify the tensions between freedom, privacy and security.

Despite our bet-worthy differences, we agree that the world was underprepared for Covid-19, however it originated. More broadly, it is unprepared for the intellectual, moral and practical challenges posed by burgeoning biotechnology. These challenges call for clear thinking and well- crafted policies that recognise both its stupendous potential boon to human flourishing and its stupendous potential risk to human safety. l

 

[delirium trigger]

We received very little hard data throughout the pandemic only to find out a large chunk of it was bs. Yet people continue to put blind trust into these "experts" because science.

 

[Airola]

Which, without full cooperation from the CCP, is never going to happen. Best we can do is start pushing back against them as retaliation for the cover up (whatever that actual cover up was. Again, we’ll never know). It really is a waste of time trying to piece it together when no one has all the facts.

But just a while ago we didn't have this much information. It shows that there are things hidden that can eventually come to light. People in high places have lied, literally lied about this. If we are uncovering lies now, we might be able to uncover lies later.

Don't forget that there are Chinese dissidents who are constantly working on whistleblower movements and trying to find more people to spill the beans about the CCP. They are offering a lot of money and political asylum from the US to Chinese people who bring credible evidence to them. Obviously that's not an easy thing to do as, like it was said last year by the FBI, China has the "Fox Hunt" program where they coerce and threaten Chinese dissidents and their families. Here's a direct quote from the FBI: "For example, when it couldn’t locate one Fox Hunt target, the Chinese government sent an emissary to visit the target’s family here in the United States. The message they said to pass on? The target had two options: return to China promptly, or commit suicide."

That's the level of shady things any possible dissident and informant is dealing with. But, what's important, these people already exist and they are fighting hard to reveal corruption and lies. So, I wouldn't say anything is waste of time as new things can come to light. The more people talk about this, the more there is a chance that something new will be revealed.

Now, I'm a bit afraid that this post will be seen as too political, especially as the first link is to a dissident anti CCP website, but these are the facts about the subject at hand. Dissidents are working to find out the truth, and China has very shady programs to find these dissidents and silence them. But as long as they continue to exist, there is a chance more things will be revealed eventually.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Caught this interview with Bret Weinstein earlier in which he discusses in detail the lab leak hypothesis and surrounding matters and very reasonable (by my estimate) explains why he believes it is the most likely explanation we currently have. Definitely recommend giving it a listen.

 

[DeafTourette]

Just wanted you to know that Krystal Ball made the same point in the above video.

Great minds!

 

[Kenpachii]

This is the problem. Everyone keeps saying let’s just move on. I say no.

What we can do as a country is never let the people forget that the media gave many of us the scarlet letter for even discussing this. The idea that MSM and social media control what theories can and cannot be discussed is something that we should prevent from ever happening again. We need to push through laws so that they are held accountable. That might never happen but we can vote with our wallets.

I for one no longer turn to any legacy news and only use YouTube and podcast. I go out of my way to find the people redefining what the news can be, the people trying to give us non partisan news.... Breaking Points is a perfect example.

Oh and if we’re lucky fauci will go to jail.

Accountable for what? bunch of retards that sign up to social media that they know they get manipulated into whatever floats there boat to keep the clicking so that company can make more money? and then they ban your ass because you make shit articles that go against there profit on a website that is owned by company/website?

Wow i am shocked.

And about your wallet, u want to start a war with china, get recruited to be killed in china for some bullshit imaginable war that for some reason makes you think u going to be completely imuum towards the outcome?, kill the markets entirely what makes every single item expensive as shit because everything gets produced in china? want items to become even more expensive because they move out of china, which directly results in china buying the majority of that company up again? or make the company themselves into that country and funnel the money still into china that is operated by chinese people etc etc and they slowlee move them back into china again?

Have u not seen how china is basically heavily interweaved in the global trade market now? yea good luck with that mate.

And that all based on some rumors you heard on some bullshit conspiracy website full of idiots that can't think further then 10 seconds. and fits your ideology even while u know jack shit about the subject?

Sounds great to me men.

I will school u a little bit how fucking dumb that guy in the video is with his idiotic statement.

Human coronaviruses were first identified in the mid-1960s. The seven coronaviruses that can infect people are:

Common human coronaviruses​

1. 229E (alpha coronavirus)
2. NL63 (alpha coronavirus)
3. OC43 (beta coronavirus)
4. HKU1 (beta coronavirus)

Other human coronaviruses​

1. MERS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, or MERS)
2. SARS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS)
3. SARS-CoV-2 (the novel coronavirus that causes coronavirus disease 2019, or COVID-19)

​

This shit has already been a thing for a while on the planet. straight up 60 fucking years ( that's the moment they found out about it so probably since forever ). And china is a big breading place with it.

Did it escape the lab or was it created from animals? who gives a fuck, because there are as much arguments for as against it.

The only thing we should give a fuck about at this point = that we now know coronavirusses are a fucking problem for the west and what we need to do is create vaccines that will hit your blood cells faster then the virus can spread and infect people. If we can create a new corona virus vaccine in 2 weeks. The whole problem is solved and economics won't crash anymore and people can keep going.

It's also interesting to invest even more into it because it could be used in the future as a biological weapon, so that we can solve this problem far quicker and far faster, because u can involve military budget into it now.

China's reports or idea's aren't relevant. It's only relevant for china and the trust level they get given in the world global markets.. What is relevant is faster cures and vaccines and that's where all the focus should be going towards. I would even say cull half of everybody's defense budget and dump it permanently into virus research as classic wars are gone anyway.

Then about the "i search my own information up" is also not working well out for you is it. If you want to see unbiased reporting, u need to look at facts and nothing else. U have no facts that state that china did this on purpose that's all opinion until there are actual facts and proof that proofs this for a 100% and is acceptable. China doesn't work with anybody so u will never know this. So you even getting the idea that china did this on purpose = you getting brainwashed by opinion pieces that want your clicks.

This is all there is to it - even if the leak was real what is the end game? China will never admit it, nor will they compensate for it. A lot of time, money and effort for nothing.

Also looking at Stewart and his clothes I have a sneaky suspicion he has cancer.

Exactly, its a waste of time, its a waste of effort, its a waste of everything. Shit happened, we moved past towards it and i always look at things positively. Luckely this virus was super mild and didn't whipe out half hte population if or even worse 90% of the population to cripple humans permanently in there recovery. Now we know we need to prepare and investments are flowing in from the left and teh right into this department which will do everybody good at the end.

Yeah just let China fuck the world over. I don’t see why they should be accountable for their inaction and deceit. Just lay there and let them. Put the screws to those fuckers, sanctions, import tariffs out the wazoo. Make life extremely difficult for them. And don’t rely on our worthless allies barring Israel.

Viruses happen all the time mate everywhere under animals and transform all day long. in the netherland we kill a fuck ton of animals each years to kill of viruses that are spreading and forming. There is no solution for this. China will have more corona virusses naturally because of relative poor hygiene and it gets worse when u realize that they are extremely well connected now towards the world.

The outbreaks among the minks on farms in the Netherlands and Spain likely started with infected workers, although officials aren’t certain. But it also is “plausible” that some workers later caught the virus back from the minks, the Dutch government and a researcher said, and scientists are exploring whether that was the case and how much of a threat such a spread might be.

This could have gone on for month without anybody knowing, it could have morphed into those minks and spread it straight back into workers without any different symptoms then just another cold until it spreads wide out into villages + morphs again and becomes deadly and suddenly 6 months later the WHO gets informed but with high travel through all country's its already everywhere.

Now imagine if netherlands made a lab to specifically research a specific strain that has no relation with the new deadly virus but its there and gets hit by all kinds of conspiracy people like that retard in that video that the netherlands wants to cripple world markets because some douchebag in some club said something about it 3 years ago in a book that nobody cared about.

Should we nuke the netherlands from the globe? no. Just improve and go forwards. If china doesn't wanna be helpful trusts goes down, then country's will take there own solutions like 2 weeks of getting locked up in a room before u can go anywhere. Nobody needs china for that.

But just a while ago we didn't have this much information. It shows that there are things hidden that can eventually come to light. People in high places have lied, literally lied about this. If we are uncovering lies now, we might be able to uncover lies later.

Don't forget that there are Chinese dissidents who are constantly working on whistleblower movements and trying to find more people to spill the beans about the CCP. They are offering a lot of money and political asylum from the US to Chinese people who bring credible evidence to them. Obviously that's not an easy thing to do as, like it was said last year by the FBI, China has the "Fox Hunt" program where they coerce and threaten Chinese dissidents and their families. Here's a direct quote from the FBI: "For example, when it couldn’t locate one Fox Hunt target, the Chinese government sent an emissary to visit the target’s family here in the United States. The message they said to pass on? The target had two options: return to China promptly, or commit suicide."

That's the level of shady things any possible dissident and informant is dealing with. But, what's important, these people already exist and they are fighting hard to reveal corruption and lies. So, I wouldn't say anything is waste of time as new things can come to light. The more people talk about this, the more there is a chance that something new will be revealed.

Now, I'm a bit afraid that this post will be seen as too political, especially as the first link is to a dissident anti CCP website, but these are the facts about the subject at hand. Dissidents are working to find out the truth, and China has very shady programs to find these dissidents and silence them. But as long as they continue to exist, there is a chance more things will be revealed eventually.

All country's do this shit, u have people getting killed in other country's or heavily pressured to not say anything negatively about there leader in there second country ( turkeys people in the netherlands for example ) or else there family's will feel the wrath.

At the end of the day, its easily solved for those chinese migrants. new name new identity and stay from the internet with foto's of yourself. Done.

 

[12Goblins]

fyi, washington examiner and Bret Weinstein have no credibility to anyone that isn't already convinced that it's a bioengineered virus from the chinese, so you might as well toss it straight into the garbage.

Steven pinker on the other hand...

 

[Amiga]

" you know we stopped filming a long time ago"

 

[Mistake]

Did it escape the lab or was it created from animals? who gives a fuck, because there are as much arguments for as against it.

Knowing how a virus started is pretty important when it comes to making vaccines or treatments. I’m no scientist, but even I understand that. China doesn’t want to help, so the world should oblige in turn and cut them off. If there is no accountability or consequences, you’re only encouraging the next pandemic, or something worse…

 

[Deleted member 17706]

fyi, washington examiner and Bret Weinstein have no credibility to anyone that isn't already convinced that it's a bioengineered virus from the chinese, so you might as well toss it straight into the garbage.

Steven pinker on the other hand...

Nah, plenty of reasonable people will listen/read sources even if they have some level of apprehension going in.

It's not even about convincing people, it's about sharing information and probable hypotheses for discussion.

Finally, "bioengineered" is too vague. Depending on how you define it, it may not even be part of what most people promoting the lab leak hypothesis are even talking about.

 

[CloudNull]

This shit has already been a thing for a while on the planet. straight up 60 fucking years ( that's the moment they found out about it so probably since forever ). And china is a big breading place with it.

Did it escape the lab or was it created from animals? who gives a fuck, because there are as much arguments for as against it.

Your post is all over the place. I don't care about China..... I actually do but not for this and I am not arguing for war. I am not arguing about tech companies but freedom of the press. Media turned a blind eye to finding the truth. They silenced anyone that argued against it which extended to Social Media. Your are missing the fundamental points of the situation.

What I care about is our government continuing to fund Gain of Function research which is supposedly the reason we are here. It is also the reason that Coronavirus was able to jump species. I care about Dr. Fauci and Peter Daszak getting off with no repercussions who have lied to the people under oath. These are people that should be held accountable. Saying fuck it and who cares is not the answer. We need answers to prevent this form happening again and this can be done without China admitting anything.

 

[Airola]

All country's do this shit, u have people getting killed in other country's or heavily pressured to not say anything negatively about there leader in there second country ( turkeys people in the netherlands for example ) or else there family's will feel the wrath.

At the end of the day, its easily solved for those chinese migrants. new name new identity and stay from the internet with foto's of yourself. Done.

Netherlands doesn't do that to its citizens who are in another country.
Finland doesn't do that to its citizens who are in another country.
I doubt USA does that either (otherwise they would've gone to Snowden's family already).

Some countries do that, not all.
Turkey? Sure, not surprised.
Russia? Maybe. Very possible.
China? That's what the FBI said and no-one's surprised about that. They would pressure their dissidents to commit suicide or else.

New name, new identity? Do you think those who the Chinese had been after hadn't done that already?


Please read this official FBI speech about China, it's from last year:

The Threat Posed by the Chinese Government and the Chinese Communist Party to the Economic and National Security of the United States | Federal Bureau of Investigation

FBI Director Christopher Wray’s remarks at the Hudson Institute, Washington, D.C.

www.fbi.gov

And about your wallet, u want to start a war with china, get recruited to be killed in china for some bullshit imaginable war that for some reason makes you think u going to be completely imuum towards the outcome?, kill the markets entirely what makes every single item expensive as shit because everything gets produced in china? want items to become even more expensive because they move out of china, which directly results in china buying the majority of that company up again? or make the company themselves into that country and funnel the money still into china that is operated by chinese people etc etc and they slowlee move them back into china again?

Have u not seen how china is basically heavily interweaved in the global trade market now? yea good luck with that mate.

You are right on this one. But that's just more of a reason to stop letting China be the "cheap labor cheap items" country.

By the way, I had a bit of a chuckle yesterday when I took a look at the new box of masks we bought and saw "Made in China" on it. I wonder how much of the masks in Europe are even made somewhere else than China.

 

[Mistake]

Netherlands doesn't do that to its citizens who are in another country.
Finland doesn't do that to its citizens who are in another country.
I doubt USA does that either (otherwise they would've gone to Snowden's family already).

Some countries do that, not all.
Turkey? Sure, not surprised.
Russia? Maybe. Very possible.
China? That's what the FBI said and no-one's surprised about that. They would pressure their dissidents to commit suicide or else.

New name, new identity? Do you think those who the Chinese had been after hadn't done that already?


Please read this official FBI speech about China, it's from last year:

The Threat Posed by the Chinese Government and the Chinese Communist Party to the Economic and National Security of the United States | Federal Bureau of Investigation

FBI Director Christopher Wray’s remarks at the Hudson Institute, Washington, D.C.

www.fbi.gov

You are right on this one. But that's just more of a reason to stop letting China be the "cheap labor cheap items" country.

By the way, I had a bit of a chuckle yesterday when I took a look at the new box of masks we bought and saw "Made in China" on it. I wonder how much of the masks in Europe are even made somewhere else than China.

Not only that. Every item I see being heavily promoted on amazon is made in china as well. If enough people wise up and check tags, it will start making a difference

 

[Dr Bass]

Colbert is so obviously nervous about the discussion. What a moron. Scared to even discuss an idea.

 

[pel1300]

Accountable for what? bunch of retards that sign up to social media that they know they get manipulated into whatever floats there boat to keep the clicking so that company can make more money? and then they ban your ass because you make shit articles that go against there profit on a website that is owned by company/website?

Wow i am shocked.

And about your wallet, u want to start a war with china, get recruited to be killed in china for some bullshit imaginable war that for some reason makes you think u going to be completely imuum towards the outcome?, kill the markets entirely what makes every single item expensive as shit because everything gets produced in china? want items to become even more expensive because they move out of china, which directly results in china buying the majority of that company up again? or make the company themselves into that country and funnel the money still into china that is operated by chinese people etc etc and they slowlee move them back into china again?

Have u not seen how china is basically heavily interweaved in the global trade market now? yea good luck with that mate.

And that all based on some rumors you heard on some bullshit conspiracy website full of idiots that can't think further then 10 seconds. and fits your ideology even while u know jack shit about the subject?

Sounds great to me men.

I will school u a little bit how fucking dumb that guy in the video is with his idiotic statement.

​

This shit has already been a thing for a while on the planet. straight up 60 fucking years ( that's the moment they found out about it so probably since forever ). And china is a big breading place with it.

Did it escape the lab or was it created from animals? who gives a fuck, because there are as much arguments for as against it.

The only thing we should give a fuck about at this point = that we now know coronavirusses are a fucking problem for the west and what we need to do is create vaccines that will hit your blood cells faster then the virus can spread and infect people. If we can create a new corona virus vaccine in 2 weeks. The whole problem is solved and economics won't crash anymore and people can keep going.

It's also interesting to invest even more into it because it could be used in the future as a biological weapon, so that we can solve this problem far quicker and far faster, because u can involve military budget into it now.

China's reports or idea's aren't relevant. It's only relevant for china and the trust level they get given in the world global markets.. What is relevant is faster cures and vaccines and that's where all the focus should be going towards. I would even say cull half of everybody's defense budget and dump it permanently into virus research as classic wars are gone anyway.

Then about the "i search my own information up" is also not working well out for you is it. If you want to see unbiased reporting, u need to look at facts and nothing else. U have no facts that state that china did this on purpose that's all opinion until there are actual facts and proof that proofs this for a 100% and is acceptable. China doesn't work with anybody so u will never know this. So you even getting the idea that china did this on purpose = you getting brainwashed by opinion pieces that want your clicks.



Exactly, its a waste of time, its a waste of effort, its a waste of everything. Shit happened, we moved past towards it and i always look at things positively. Luckely this virus was super mild and didn't whipe out half hte population if or even worse 90% of the population to cripple humans permanently in there recovery. Now we know we need to prepare and investments are flowing in from the left and teh right into this department which will do everybody good at the end.



Viruses happen all the time mate everywhere under animals and transform all day long. in the netherland we kill a fuck ton of animals each years to kill of viruses that are spreading and forming. There is no solution for this. China will have more corona virusses naturally because of relative poor hygiene and it gets worse when u realize that they are extremely well connected now towards the world.



This could have gone on for month without anybody knowing, it could have morphed into those minks and spread it straight back into workers without any different symptoms then just another cold until it spreads wide out into villages + morphs again and becomes deadly and suddenly 6 months later the WHO gets informed but with high travel through all country's its already everywhere.

Now imagine if netherlands made a lab to specifically research a specific strain that has no relation with the new deadly virus but its there and gets hit by all kinds of conspiracy people like that retard in that video that the netherlands wants to cripple world markets because some douchebag in some club said something about it 3 years ago in a book that nobody cared about.

Should we nuke the netherlands from the globe? no. Just improve and go forwards. If china doesn't wanna be helpful trusts goes down, then country's will take there own solutions like 2 weeks of getting locked up in a room before u can go anywhere. Nobody needs china for that.



All country's do this shit, u have people getting killed in other country's or heavily pressured to not say anything negatively about there leader in there second country ( turkeys people in the netherlands for example ) or else there family's will feel the wrath.

At the end of the day, its easily solved for those chinese migrants. new name new identity and stay from the internet with foto's of yourself. Done.

Chill.

 

[12Goblins]

Colbert is so obviously nervous about the discussion. What a moron. Scared to even discuss an idea.

or maybe he just sees the nuance where you cant? he's not scared to discuss ideas, he's scared of using his platform to fan the flames of racism and bigotry against asian americans. people that don't care about anti asian american sentiment will blurt it out like they know the answer (ie Weinstein) with little concern of its effects. he only cares about the so-called objective truth. fair enough, I see both sides.

liberals will argue that only one thing can come from parading this theory on national tv --more anti asian sentiment. Talking about it on Colbert is not going to get us closer to any answers besides validate people's racist tendencies towards Asian.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

or maybe he just sees the nuance where you cant? he's not scared to discuss ideas, he's scared of using his platform to fan the flames of racism and bigotry against asian americans. people that don't care about anti asian american sentiment will blurt it out like they know the answer (ie Weinstein) with little concern of its effects. he only cares about the so-called objective truth. fair enough, I see both sides.

liberals will argue that only one thing can come from parading this theory on national tv --more anti asian sentiment. Talking about it on Colbert is not going to get us closer to any answers besides validate people's racist tendencies towards Asian.

That doesn't seem like a reasonable take at all to me. Colbert's viewers seem unlikely to turn into violent Asian-hating racists because Jon Stewart talked about the possibility of a Wuhan lab leak.

However, talking about it on Colbert does normalize the topic for his audience and help lead to increased pressure on our elected officials to try harder to get to the bottom of this thing.

 

[AnAnole]

Colbert should have replied to Stewart bringing up the bats in Austin with, "do they fucking eat bats in Austin"? Yes, the lab leak hypothesis is plausible, but so is the wet market hypothesis. Regardless, China is to blame.

 

[LegendOfKage]

or maybe he just sees the nuance where you cant? he's not scared to discuss ideas, he's scared of using his platform to fan the flames of racism and bigotry against asian americans. people that don't care about anti asian american sentiment will blurt it out like they know the answer (ie Weinstein) with little concern of its effects. he only cares about the so-called objective truth. fair enough, I see both sides.

liberals will argue that only one thing can come from parading this theory on national tv --more anti asian sentiment. Talking about it on Colbert is not going to get us closer to any answers besides validate people's racist tendencies towards Asian.

Your bad-faith assessment of Weinstein aside, I'm going to reword something that has already been mentioned in this thread in the form of a question. How is "A Chinese company did potentially dangerous research that was funded by the US government" somehow more likely to encourage racism against Chinese people than "Some Chinese people who like to eat bats caused this whole thing."

Which is more likely to cause blame of government failure (along with making the US responsible for some of that blame), and which is more likely to unfairly put the focus on the citizens themselves?

 

[Lupingosei]

Your bad-faith assessment of Weinstein aside, I'm going to reword something that has already been mentioned in this thread in the form of a question. How is "A Chinese company did potentially dangerous research that was funded by the US government" somehow more likely to encourage racism against Chinese people than "Some Chinese people who like to eat bats caused this whole thing."

Which is more likely to cause blame of government failure (along with making the US responsible for some of that blame), and which is more likely to unfairly put the focus on the citizens themselves?

The racist card was played to stop the discussion. It was used to shame people who were not agreeing with what they were told, as it is supposed to be used.

 

[BadBurger]

Eh, even the best of them are wrong sometimes. Like how he went on about the name of the lab - it's not the name. It exists within the Wuhan Institute of Virology. And prior to the pandemic coronaviruses at the Institute were actually conducted in lower level BSL-2 and 3 labs. He's really fallen into the same weird collection of misinformation that follows all conspiracy theories around.

That aside, the guy still has it. Still knows how to work the crowd like a stand up comedian while being the funniest guy in the room.

 

[INC]

The concern shouldn't be did it leak, which would be hard to prove. The concern should be could it have leaked, who lied about a possible leak, who lied about lab conditions, who lied about the research, who had a personal investment in funding the research, what should happen to those who lied, and most importantly should the US stop all funding for that sort of research.

If US helped funded it, China and US should be liable, since they've potentially destroyed so many lives and global economies

 

[DeepBreath87]

If US helped funded it, China and US should be liable, since they've potentially destroyed so many lives and global economies

I don’t think you hold populations accountable. You hold individuals and institutions accountable. I don’t want to damage the life of some Chinese laborer any more than I want to hurt the finances of some American worker. The people that approved, funded, and lied about this stuff are the people that need to be held accountable.

 

[INC]

I don’t think you hold populations accountable. You hold individuals and institutions accountable. I don’t want to damage the life of some Chinese laborer any more than I want to hurt the finances of some American worker. The people that approved, funded, and lied about this stuff are the people that need to be held accountable.

US and Trump wanted to hold CHYYYNA accountable.........so whats changed?, apart from the fact US was involved, and helped fund this global pandemic

And its fine, we'll all take $1500 cheque from both countries.

 

[DeepBreath87]

US and Trump wanted to hold CHYYYNA accountable.........so whats changed?, apart from the fact US was involved, and helped fund this global pandemic

And its fine, we'll all take $1500 cheque from both countries.

I was never on board with Trump in that regard, so nothing’s changed. The only way I want to hold China accountable is by having the US decrease it’s reliance on Chinese manufacturing. But those feelings long predate the pandemic.

 

[infinitys_7th]

liberals will argue that only one thing can come from parading this theory on national tv --more anti asian sentiment. Talking about it on Colbert is not going to get us closer to any answers besides validate people's racist tendencies towards Asian.

Anti-China sentiment =/= Anti-Asia sentiment in general, and Anti-CCP sentiment is certainly not an anti-Asian sentiment. The rest of Asia is anti-China too, except their lapdog NK.

It's actually racist to lump all people from Asia together; questioning the Chinese government and talking about their culpability is just fine. Your average Japanese person or Korean person or Indian person would happily join in criticism of China.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Eh, even the best of them are wrong sometimes. Like how he went on about the name of the lab - it's not the name. It exists within the Wuhan Institute of Virology. And prior to the pandemic coronaviruses at the Institute were actually conducted in lower level BSL-2 and 3 labs. He's really fallen into the same weird collection of misinformation that follows all conspiracy theories around.

That aside, the guy still has it. Still knows how to work the crowd like a stand up comedian while being the funniest guy in the room.

"conspiracy theory"

Right. . .

This term has no credibility.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Eh, even the best of them are wrong sometimes. Like how he went on about the name of the lab - it's not the name. It exists within the Wuhan Institute of Virology. And prior to the pandemic coronaviruses at the Institute were actually conducted in lower level BSL-2 and 3 labs. He's really fallen into the same weird collection of misinformation that follows all conspiracy theories around.

That aside, the guy still has it. Still knows how to work the crowd like a stand up comedian while being the funniest guy in the room.

One of 3 labs on earth doing gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses, and what do you know, a bat coronavirus with an extremely efficient ability to infect humans pops up just down the block. Just a coincidence though. Shame when reality has to give ammunition to “CoNsPiRaCy ThEoRiEs”, isn’t it?

 

[12Goblins]

Your bad-faith assessment of Weinstein aside, I'm going to reword something that has already been mentioned in this thread in the form of a question. How is "A Chinese company did potentially dangerous research that was funded by the US government" somehow more likely to encourage racism against Chinese people than "Some Chinese people who like to eat bats caused this whole thing."

Which is more likely to cause blame of government failure (along with making the US responsible for some of that blame), and which is more likely to unfairly put the focus on the citizens themselves?

who is saying this happened because Chinese people like to eat bats? I remember this being the knee jerk reaction in the beginning (namely wet markets), but yes for obvious reasons that is extremely presumptuous and sinophobic lol

 

[infinitys_7th]

who is saying this happened because Chinese people like to eat bats? I remember this being the knee jerk reaction in the beginning (namely wet markets), but yes for obvious reasons that is extremely presumptuous and sinophobic lol

The "lul we eat bat soup from filthy wet markets, so don't look into this lab a block from the first case!" line came directly from the CCP. That was their first explanation in December 2019-January 2020 while it was spreading in China. They also blocked the CDC and WHO from coming in and started disappearing Chinese scientists and doctors who spoke out. I think they actually thought they had it under control and it would remain entirely an internal matter and keep scrutiny off their research.

Then, once it started spreading across the globe, the CCP blamed the US as the origin (and claimed it started in August 2019 and was responsible for the bad flu season of that year). After much laughter and Pompeo's State Department BTFOing that stupid claim they shut up and decided to just hide everything including infection and deaths, which is what they are still doing.

The bat soup line is not sinophobic - it's literally what the CCP claimed while desparately trying to misdirect people away from the lab. Although their own line now being claimed as an example of "sinophobia" is thought-provoking in itself.

 

[Shouta]

Bats being widespread strengthens his argument, not lessens. Bats probably shit on your doorstep, on your neighbors, their dogs play with dead bats, etc., and that contact holds true across the world. . .but COVID-19 just happened to pop up a block away from a virology lab China is desparately hiding info on. And their hiding info is very much able to be taken into consideration and be held against them.

It doesn't actually strengthen the argument, nor lessen it. Things that occur in nature tend to be localized and affect specific populations until it's spread by some sort of movement of people, things, or animals. It showing up in bats in Asia but not a bat from North America doesn't really say much at all. You can look to another virus that involves bat for this, the ebola virus. It was found in bats in Africa but I don't think it's shown up in bats on other continents.

If we wanted to use humans as an example, Smallprox showed up in Egypt 3000 years ago apparently and it spread around Asia, Africa, and Europe because of the movement of people. However, it didn't exist in the Americas until European colonialists arrived bringing it with them despite the fact humans existed around the globe at the time

 

[CGiRanger]

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/lab-leak-theory-science-scientists-rcna1191

Chan said there had been trepidation among some scientists about publicly discussing the lab leak hypothesis for fear that their words could be misconstrued or used to support racist rhetoric about how the coronavirus emerged. Trump fueled accusations that the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a research lab in the city where the first Covid-19 cases were reported, was connected to the outbreak, and on numerous occasions he called the pathogen the "Wuhan virus" or "kung flu."

"At the time, it was scarier to be associated with Trump and to become a tool for racists, so people didn't want to publicly call for an investigation into lab origins," she said.

Now, more scientists are comfortable confronting the gamut of plausible theories — particularly given China's opacity about the topic — although many still caution that entertaining the idea of a lab leak requires clear scientific proof, which hasn't materialized.

I know some will say, nothing has changed. But the fact that Scientists had to "shut up" to avoid being labeled as "racist" is a freaking massive problem when dealing with a pandemic or other emergency. In addition, the media and other "experts" were freaking ADAMANT that there was "NO WAY" the Wuhan lab leak theory was even possible (as opposed to just saying "we don't know")

 

[infinitys_7th]

It doesn't actually strengthen the argument, nor lessen it. Things that occur in nature tend to be localized and affect specific populations until it's spread by some sort of movement of people, things, or animals. It showing up in bats in Asia but not a bat from North America doesn't really say much at all. You can look to another virus that involves bat for this, the ebola virus. It was found in bats in Africa but I don't think it's shown up in bats on other continents.

If we wanted to use humans as an example, Smallprox showed up in Egypt 3000 years ago apparently and it spread around Asia, Africa, and Europe because of the movement of people. However, it didn't exist in the Americas until European colonialists arrived bringing it with them despite the fact humans existed around the globe at the time

I was talking about that specific dialogue with Colbert. Colbert tried to sound "sciencey" and blathered something about the virology institute being in Wuhan because of bats with coronavirus being there, and Stewart made fun of that by saying that bats are fucking everywhere and all carry zoonotic viruses that could potentially transfer to humans just like this one did. Coronaviruses are absolutely everywhere in the world (probably because they are generally mild and thus spread well), and have been detected in US bats as far back as 2007:

Detection of Group 1 Coronaviruses in Bats in North America

Bats of 2 species harbor group 1 coronaviruses.The epidemic of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) was caused by a newly emerged coronavirus (SARS-CoV). Bats of several species in southern People’s Republic of China harbor SARS-like CoVs ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

To our knowledge, this is the first report of coronaviruses in bats in the Western Hemisphere. With >1,100 species, bats are among the most divergent and widely distributed nonhuman mammals (17). Bats are reservoirs for rabies virus and other lyssaviruses and were recently shown to be reservoirs for other important emerging viruses. Old World fruit bats (family Pteropodidae) are reservoirs for Hendra virus, which caused small outbreaks of severe respiratory illnesses in horses and humans in Australia (18–24) and Nipah virus, which caused large outbreaks of lethal encephalitis and respiratory illnesses in humans and pigs in Malaysia and Singapore (25–28). Old World fruit bats may also be the long-sought reservoir hosts for Ebola and Marburg viruses (29,30). More than 60 different RNA viruses have been isolated from and detected in bats, which play important roles in maintaining and transmitting zoonotic viruses (31–33).

The need for understanding the ecology and evolution of coronaviruses in wildlife was highlighted by the observation that SARS-CoVs that caused 4 sporadic human cases of SARS in 2003–2004 were more closely related to viruses from palm civets found in 2004 than to the human epidemic strain of SARS-CoV (34). The gene encoding the viral spike glycoprotein that binds the virus receptor human angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 was one of the fastest-adapting genes of SARS-CoV during the 2002–2003 epidemic. Nonsynonymous amino acid substitutions in the spike protein that were selected during the epidemic optimized binding of the spike to its human receptor and enhanced human-to-human transmission (34,35). Sequencing of SARS-CoV genomes during and after the epidemic suggests that multiple independent species-jumping events of SARS-CoV from animals to humans have occurred.

Although all samples we tested were from apparently healthy wild bats, a high prevalence of coronavirus RNA was detected in 2 of the 7 species of bats tested. Five (50%) of 10 occult myotis and 1 (17%) of 6 big brown bats tested contained low levels of coronavirus RNA in feces. No coronavirus RNA was detected in the oral or anal region swabs tested. Similarly in Asian bats, coronavirus RNA was found in a higher percentage of fecal samples than saliva samples (8,9,14). Thus, bats may be persistently infected carriers that shed low levels of coronaviruses in feces. Persistent fecal shedding of coronaviruses has also been detected in pigs, cats, dogs, and cattle (36). The mechanisms for persistent fecal shedding of viruses in bats without apparent disease have not yet been determined (32,33).

This study happened after SARS came around, so who knows how long coronaviruses have been in US bats. SARS was really a wake-up call and got more people looking at these viruses and they turn out to be everywhere.

While SARS-COV-2 is similar to coronaviruses found in Asian bats, it has important unexplained differences. But that just means the root risk is the coronavirus itself, and thus there is no reason a US bat with a US coronavirus couldn't shit on a sheep that then sneezed on a sheepdog that then licked its owner's face on some US farm at any time and make our own little nasty virus. The same risk is global, which is just what Stewart said (although he didn't know that bat throughout the world have coronaviruses).

 

[Airola]

or maybe he just sees the nuance where you cant? he's not scared to discuss ideas, he's scared of using his platform to fan the flames of racism and bigotry against asian americans. people that don't care about anti asian american sentiment will blurt it out like they know the answer (ie Weinstein) with little concern of its effects. he only cares about the so-called objective truth. fair enough, I see both sides.

liberals will argue that only one thing can come from parading this theory on national tv --more anti asian sentiment. Talking about it on Colbert is not going to get us closer to any answers besides validate people's racist tendencies towards Asian.

Where's the line though?

If that's really why Colbert wouldn't want to talk about it, his priorities concerning this disease are not good.
We are talking about a disease that has killed millions upon millions of people, and there he is not wanting to discuss certain aspects of it because people ethnically from that country happen to exist in his country. What's a big enough scandal and fuck-up by another country when people would set racial issues aside and allow free talk about it? Or is it so that if the scandal is too big, then it's even more important to avoid talking about it? Because people of certain ethnicity live in certain place? To me that's stupid and even dangerous.