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[Bragr]

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Captain Toad]

And by "every Final Fantasy" you mean everyone released in your gaming lifetime (aka X-XV, excluding XI and XIV)?

 

[K2D]

Reads like a COD-coomer, bored with life, daring a dip of his johnson into the hornet's nest.

 

[Myths]

Video games then

 

[TintoConCasera]

Love me some nonsensical story.

 

[jshackles]

OP forgot the "Cringe" tag

hope a mod can help them out

 

[Ozzie666]

Emit does not approve of this thread. Hopefully he can snap his fingers and make it go away.

Cloud or Squall don't care about this thread, not one bit.

VIVI is life.

If by padding, you mean classic Opera scenes from FF3/6, I'll gladly take that padding and feel good content.

Name me an RPG or MMO that doesn't have padding, fetch quests, side quests? - You can't.

Unless you've played the games in their original languages, some of the story gets lost in translation. Yes I'm looking at you FF8.

 

[ReBurn]

Thanks for letting us know.

 

[LazyParrot]

Aren't most single player games like that?

 

[Bragr]

Only modern Final Fantasies have padded content and dumb stories.

And seriously, tell me you're a zoomer without telling me you're a zoomer.

I played through 6,7,8,9,10, 13, and 15, and am currently playing through 12. And they all use the same way to build the narrative, the same long-winded mission structures, and exactly the same character relationship building designed to work late-game as well and use the same character arcs and character types, over and over.

Right now in 12, I'm at the beginning, and I just ran around the city heralding Basch in a strange sequence, and I just ran around in the mines, back and forth. The way it uses 2-3 hours to build a tiny story arch they could have used 30 minutes on, is everywhere in Final Fantasy. It's a common design principle. The amount of holes in the story in 12 is absolutely comical, the entire party I'm running around with haven't even asked each other who they are.

Final Fantasy stories are shoddy sci-fi that relies on the player getting attached to the characters in your party. The way they build the party, and how they make the player get attached to these characters, is almost always based on the stereotypical Japanese JRPG method. That involves spending a lot of time with your party during long missions that add one piece to the story. Over the course of many hours, they build a narrative and relationships that start to yield fruit late-game. It's extremely common to use time like this in JRPGs, you see it everywhere, it's an ancient outdated design philosophy.

The problem with this is that you have to come up with ways to do long missions, and almost every Final Fantasy does this by having long-winded mostly boring grind missions, but by the end when the mission is over and the new piece of the story unfolds, you forget about the mediocre shit you did the last hour cause you are excited to see what happens next. For example, I just spent an hour or two fighting bats and insects in a mine. It was as mediocre as you can get. Yet, people don't wanna talk about that stuff when they talk about FF12, even though those sort of missions is the majority of the game.

I have never played one Final Fantasy where at least 30%-40% of the game was not mediocre. And every time fans speak about the game, they always conveniently only mention the big story arcs or the music and completely ignore most of the game they actually played.

 

[Kilau]

What the heck is a Zoomer?

 

[BennyBlanco]

I played through 6,7,8,9,10, 13, and 15, and am currently playing through 12. And they all use the same way to build the narrative, the same long-winded mission structures, and exactly the same character relationship building designed to work late-game as well and use the same character arcs and character types, over and over.

Right now in 12, I'm at the beginning, and I just ran around the city heralding Basch in a strange sequence, and I just ran around in the mines, back and forth. The way it uses 2-3 hours to build a tiny story arch they could have used 30 minutes on, is everywhere in Final Fantasy. It's a common design principle. The amount of holes in the story in 12 is absolutely comical, the entire party I'm running around with haven't even asked each other who they are.

Final Fantasy stories are shoddy sci-fi that relies on the player getting attached to the characters in your party. The way they build the party, and how they make the player get attached to these characters, is almost always based on the stereotypical Japanese JRPG method. That involves spending a lot of time with your party during long missions that add one piece to the story. Over the course of many hours, they build a narrative and relationships that start to yield fruit late-game. It's extremely common to use time like this in JRPGs, you see it everywhere, it's an ancient outdated design philosophy.

The problem with this is that you have to come up with ways to do long missions, and almost every Final Fantasy does this by having long-winded mostly boring grind missions, but by the end when the mission is over and the new piece of the story unfolds, you forget about the mediocre shit you did the last hour cause you are excited to see what happens next. For example, I just spent an hour or two fighting bats and insects in a mine. It was as mediocre as you can get. Yet, people don't wanna talk about that stuff when they talk about FF12, even though those sort of missions is the majority of the game.

I have never played one Final Fantasy where at least 30%-40% of the game was not mediocre. And every time fans speak about the game, they always conveniently only mention the big story arcs or the music and completely ignore most of the game they actually played.

you're absolutely right, but did you need to spend 400+ hours playing this schlock to come to this conclusion?

ff5 is pretty cool though, love that job system.

 

[Bragr]

Emit does not approve of this thread. Hopefully he can snap his fingers and make it go away.

Cloud or Squall don't care about this thread, not one bit.

VIVI is life.

If by padding, you mean classic Opera scenes from FF3/6, I'll gladly take that padding and feel good content.

Name me an RPG or MMO that doesn't have padding, fetch quests, side quests? - You can't.

Unless you've played the games in their original languages, some of the story gets lost in translation. Yes I'm looking at you FF8.

By padding, I mean sections of a game that is 3 hours long, but only needed to be one hour.

Final Fantasy is built upon long sections of combat that reveal some slight part of the story, sometimes, the games will spend 4-5 hours before they unveil the next part of the story. Like:

- You meet some girl in a castle you just sneaked into. The girl wants to escape.
- You know she's the princess, it's obvious.
- Spend 2 hours escaping the castle with the girl.
- Spend another 2 hours running errands so you get enough money to buy a ship to escape the lands.
- Spend 2 hours fighting off soldiers who try to capture the girl.
- And then one day she turns to you and says "I'm the princess".

Some version of that is the intro section in every Final Fantasy. You always meet someone mysterious who is not who they say they are. It's 6 hours that was supposed to be one, but the writers don't know how to write stories efficiently, so they do what all JRPGs do, use excessive time and long missions to force the player to get used to the characters. Every little arch in Final Fantasy games uses padding and time to convey characters. It's ridiculous.

 

[Bragr]

you're absolutely right, but did you need to spend 400+ hours playing this schlock to come to this conclusion?

ff5 is pretty cool though, love that job system.

There is a lot of things in Final Fantasy that works, I don't hate the games, I was a big Final Fantasy fan for a long time, but I just can't take the bullshit anymore. There is something about 12 that highlights the fluff. I just can't believe the nonsense I'm spending time on in that game, and I am starting to recognize that it was the same for most of the Final Fantasy games.

 

[teezzy]

Shut up zoomer

 

[Swift_Star]

This defines XV only. The other games are not like that.

 

[Aion002]

There is a lot of things in Final Fantasy that works, I don't hate the games, I was a big Final Fantasy fan for a long time, but I just can't take the bullshit anymore. There is something about 12 that highlights the fluff. I just can't believe the nonsense I'm spending time on in that game, and I am starting to recognize that it was the same for most of the Final Fantasy games.

That happens a lot, I used to like Disgaea games... Now I don’t like them anymore, it happens.

That doesn't mean that they're bad, just that I don't like them anymore.

 

[Swift_Star]

I played through 6,7,8,9,10, 13, and 15, and am currently playing through 12. And they all use the same way to build the narrative, the same long-winded mission structures, and exactly the same character relationship building designed to work late-game as well and use the same character arcs and character types, over and over.

Right now in 12, I'm at the beginning, and I just ran around the city heralding Basch in a strange sequence, and I just ran around in the mines, back and forth. The way it uses 2-3 hours to build a tiny story arch they could have used 30 minutes on, is everywhere in Final Fantasy. It's a common design principle. The amount of holes in the story in 12 is absolutely comical, the entire party I'm running around with haven't even asked each other who they are.

Final Fantasy stories are shoddy sci-fi that relies on the player getting attached to the characters in your party. The way they build the party, and how they make the player get attached to these characters, is almost always based on the stereotypical Japanese JRPG method. That involves spending a lot of time with your party during long missions that add one piece to the story. Over the course of many hours, they build a narrative and relationships that start to yield fruit late-game. It's extremely common to use time like this in JRPGs, you see it everywhere, it's an ancient outdated design philosophy.

The problem with this is that you have to come up with ways to do long missions, and almost every Final Fantasy does this by having long-winded mostly boring grind missions, but by the end when the mission is over and the new piece of the story unfolds, you forget about the mediocre shit you did the last hour cause you are excited to see what happens next. For example, I just spent an hour or two fighting bats and insects in a mine. It was as mediocre as you can get. Yet, people don't wanna talk about that stuff when they talk about FF12, even though those sort of missions is the majority of the game.

I have never played one Final Fantasy where at least 30%-40% of the game was not mediocre. And every time fans speak about the game, they always conveniently only mention the big story arcs or the music and completely ignore most of the game they actually played.

So, you hate these games but are playing through all of them? Why are you torturing yourself like that? Either you actually like these games or you’re fishing for reactions.

 

[Bragr]

This defines XV only. The other games are not like that.

10, 12 and 13 is the same. They are padded, 13 is by far the worst offender.

The story is writen first, then gameplay and missions is forced in between to allow the story to be told. If they have to force in 2 hour missions to explain a small part of the story, they will do so. Just try an recall how much time you spent doing battles you knew you would win before you even started.

 

[Bragr]

So, you hate these games but are playing through all of them? Why are you torturing yourself like that? Either you actually like these games or you’re fishing for reactions.

I don't hate them, but I think people are forgetting all the grinding and long missions because of the strong landings these games usually have.

 

[RafterXL]

10, 12 and 13 is the same. They are padded, 13 is by far the worst offender.

The story is writen first, then gameplay and missions is forced in between to allow the story to be told. If they have to force in 2 hour missions to explain a small part of the story, they will do so. Just try an recall how much time you spent doing battles you knew you would win before you even started.

7R is the worst offender. It's 90% padding and it's only a third of the originals story.

But, yea, every FF past 9 gets successively worse until you get to the dogshit that is 15. The only decent FF in the last two decades is 14 and you have wade through a lot of shit even in that game, and pay a monthly fee.

 

[Swift_Star]

I don't hate them, but I think people are forgetting all the grinding and long missions because of the strong landings these games usually have.

Final fantasy barely have grindings. You can pretty much finish the games by making a beeline and fighting only the enemies the game throw in the main path. Specially nowadays the games have no random encounters. I’ve played FFX recently and the pacing is suberb and has no padding at all. Everything is explained to you as they should since you’re a stranger in another land.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I'll never get the filler in games argument. It's a game, it's ALL filler. Do you think you're really saving that princess or stopping that bomb? Yes, there are less exciting things to do, but more often than not, those are optional. If it's just another way to bitch about the train graveyard and sewers in FFVIIR without bitching about the train graveyard and sewers in FFVIIR, just bitch about it. Experiences are subjective. But most of the time I see this word used, it's regarding content that is optional and put there for people who REALLY REALLY like the game. It doesn't hurt you by existing or being skipped.

And as far as nonsensical stories go, you picked the wrong medium if you're looking for compelling or even competent narratives. I can think off the top of my subjective head of probably four stories in gaming that have really resonated with me just based on content alone. Now, there are others that I've really enjoyed because of the combination of immersion, music, etc, but this is one of those "No shit, huh?" Statements.

 

[Bragr]

That happens a lot, I used to like Disgaea games... Now I don’t like them anymore, it happens.

That doesn't mean that they're bad, just that I don't like them anymore.

Nah, It's not a taste thing, It's finally accepting how much these games drag out missions to allow for story developments and how mediocre it makes so much of content. There is no way to defend the first 10 hours of 12, any other game would get blasted by all the fetchquest that game demands you do.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I played through 6,7,8,9,10, 13, and 15, and am currently playing through 12. And they all use the same way to build the narrative, the same long-winded mission structures, and exactly the same character relationship building designed to work late-game as well and use the same character arcs and character types, over and over.

No, they don't.

Right now in 12, I'm at the beginning, and I just ran around the city heralding Basch in a strange sequence, and I just ran around in the mines, back and forth. The way it uses 2-3 hours to build a tiny story arch they could have used 30 minutes on, is everywhere in Final Fantasy. It's a common design principle. The amount of holes in the story in 12 is absolutely comical, the entire party I'm running around with haven't even asked each other who they are.

That section shouldn't take you that long. The opening bits take around maybe 1-2 hours, tops. And welcome to JRPG story telling. They care more about slowly showing you the world instead of tossing you into the deep-end and instantly making you a hero. It builds intrigue, it builds suspense. It creates moments that focus on characters.

Final Fantasy stories are shoddy sci-fi that relies on the player getting attached to the characters in your party. The way they build the party, and how they make the player get attached to these characters, is almost always based on the stereotypical Japanese JRPG method.

Wow, you mean one of the fathers of the JRPG genre uses JRPG tropes? Holy shit this is such a revelation!

That involves spending a lot of time with your party during long missions that add one piece to the story. Over the course of many hours, they build a narrative and relationships that start to yield fruit late-game. It's extremely common to use time like this in JRPGs, you see it everywhere, it's an ancient outdated design philosophy.

It clearly isn't outdated. Its just a form of story telling *you* don't like. Big difference.

The problem with this is that you have to come up with ways to do long missions, and almost every Final Fantasy does this by having long-winded mostly boring grind missions, but by the end when the mission is over and the new piece of the story unfolds, you forget about the mediocre shit you did the last hour cause you are excited to see what happens next.

What missions? What "long-winded mostly boring grind missions"? The fuck you on about?

For example, I just spent an hour or two fighting bats and insects in a mine. It was as mediocre as you can get. Yet, people don't wanna talk about that stuff when they talk about FF12, even though those sort of missions is the majority of the game.

People don't talk about the first few hours of any RPG. What do you do at the beginning of most western RPGs? You kill rats. You kill spiders. Welcome to basic RPG design 101. As for "the majority of the game", you just further show you are talking out your ass as that is *not* what the majority of 12 is like.

I have never played one Final Fantasy where at least 30%-40% of the game was not mediocre. And every time fans speak about the game, they always conveniently only mention the big story arcs or the music and completely ignore most of the game they actually played.

You have never played Final Fantasy. Full stop. Every word you post just further shows how ignorant you are to the franchise and RPGs in general.

By padding, I mean sections of a game that is 3 hours long, but only needed to be one hour.

Final Fantasy is built upon long sections of combat that reveal some slight part of the story, sometimes, the games will spend 4-5 hours before they unveil the next part of the story. Like:

- You meet some girl in a castle you just sneaked into. The girl wants to escape.
- You know she's the princess, it's obvious.
- Spend 2 hours escaping the castle with the girl.
- Spend another 2 hours running errands so you get enough money to buy a ship to escape the lands.
- Spend 2 hours fighting off soldiers who try to capture the girl.
- And then one day she turns to you and says "I'm the princess".

Some version of that is the intro section in every Final Fantasy. You always meet someone mysterious who is not who they say they are. It's 6 hours that was supposed to be one, but the writers don't know how to write stories efficiently, so they do what all JRPGs do, use excessive time and long missions to force the player to get used to the characters. Every little arch in Final Fantasy games uses padding and time to convey characters. It's ridiculous.

Literally proving my point that you haven't played these games.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I became aware somewhere in the late 90's. I built my own computer for the first time and my mind was opened. Because of that I saw through the BS that was JRPG's.

 

[Dr. Claus]

7R is the worst offender. It's 90% padding and it's only a third of the originals story.

But, yea, every FF past 9 gets successively worse until you get to the dogshit that is 15. The only decent FF in the last two decades is 14 and you have wade through a lot of shit even in that game, and pay a monthly fee.

7R isn't 7. They aren't the same game. 7R, for all intents and purposes is a sequel. So the game isn't "padding". Its just the game.

If anything *was* padding, it was a few chapters that allowed you to do sidequests. Those felt mostly pointless.

 

[Platinumstorm]

I played through 6,7,8,9,10, 13, and 15, and am currently playing through 12. And they all use the same way to build the narrative, the same long-winded mission structures, and exactly the same character relationship building designed to work late-game as well and use the same character arcs and character types, over and over.

Right now in 12, I'm at the beginning, and I just ran around the city heralding Basch in a strange sequence, and I just ran around in the mines, back and forth. The way it uses 2-3 hours to build a tiny story arch they could have used 30 minutes on, is everywhere in Final Fantasy. It's a common design principle. The amount of holes in the story in 12 is absolutely comical, the entire party I'm running around with haven't even asked each other who they are.

Final Fantasy stories are shoddy sci-fi that relies on the player getting attached to the characters in your party. The way they build the party, and how they make the player get attached to these characters, is almost always based on the stereotypical Japanese JRPG method. That involves spending a lot of time with your party during long missions that add one piece to the story. Over the course of many hours, they build a narrative and relationships that start to yield fruit late-game. It's extremely common to use time like this in JRPGs, you see it everywhere, it's an ancient outdated design philosophy.

The problem with this is that you have to come up with ways to do long missions, and almost every Final Fantasy does this by having long-winded mostly boring grind missions, but by the end when the mission is over and the new piece of the story unfolds, you forget about the mediocre shit you did the last hour cause you are excited to see what happens next. For example, I just spent an hour or two fighting bats and insects in a mine. It was as mediocre as you can get. Yet, people don't wanna talk about that stuff when they talk about FF12, even though those sort of missions is the majority of the game.

I have never played one Final Fantasy where at least 30%-40% of the game was not mediocre. And every time fans speak about the game, they always conveniently only mention the big story arcs or the music and completely ignore most of the game they actually played.

This almost sounds like you don't want to play games; not because you don't like Final Fantasy, but because you don't want to play the actual game? Doom 2016 is just adding in more grindy rooms of bigger monsters that do the same mechanics over and over, so why should anyone play that or think it's a good game?

People essentially demand the same character tropes over and over, including the classes and abilities; and it's difficult to criticize them over. Dragoons are pretty damn cool. Because they spend so much time making people care about characters, people want their black mage in FFXIV to look like Vivi. If you don't have the grind; you cannot use a dragoon's Jump ability. You cannot use that flashy Atma Weapon that you're wielding like a lightsaber; you can't get excited to level up to get ICE II.

I always felt Final Fantasy 6 had the best progression, side quests, and least amount of unwanted grind [just that one tower in Zozo], as a side note. 12 perhaps had some of the most annoying, and also one of the lamer combat systems.

10, 12 and 13 is the same. They are padded, 13 is by far the worst offender.

The story is writen first, then gameplay and missions is forced in between to allow the story to be told. If they have to force in 2 hour missions to explain a small part of the story, they will do so. Just try an recall how much time you spent doing battles you knew you would win before you even started.

How often are you playing games where you aren't going to win the battle before you even started? I have to go back to R-Type to not know that I'll necessarily win. I also can't really comment on 13 being padded or not, I don't remember it terribly well, but 13 was also released in a time period where games thought, and sometimes still do, that the only way to get people to buy your game is if you're offering 500 hours of playtime, so you end up with the idiotic follow the flashing light on the radar time quests.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

There hasn't been a genuine sense of wonder and play to the franchise since (the original, not remade) one-two punch of VI and VII, for me.

Granted, I played through VIII and IX, and enjoyed things... but something was missing, and I lost all interest in the series after that point.

 

[nani17]

Off topic
I'm I the only one that hates these fucking terms like zoomer, boomer. Especially boomer since its used for everyone now
Someone will say it.

On topic....

 

[Little Chicken]

imo FFVI and FFIX have the best stories and characters.

 

[Captain Toad]

Off topic
I'm I the only one that hates these fucking terms like zoomer, boomer. Especially boomer since its used for everyone now
Someone will say it.

On topic....

I'm an Oklahoma Sooners graduate, so I love it.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Ehh, somewhat. But in terms of padding Final Fantasy is still among the least offensive JRPGs.

 

[Graciaus]

Play final fantasy tactics.

 

[Dream-Knife]

I'm a millennial who likes RPGs. I don't like FF.

 

[TheGrat1]

I'll never get the filler in games argument. It's a game, it's ALL filler.

It really depends on how the player actions are presented in the story of the game.

A game like God of War 2005 has virtually no padding because even when it is throwing enemy scenario after enemy scenario at you, it makes sense in the context of the story.
Sure, you could have just fought the Hydra at the very beginning of the first stage (in a way, you do) and killed it off but that would not give the impression that an entire fleet of ships was under attack by a many headed monster. Going through the ships, killing off head after head until you reach the main one makes sense in the context of the game.
Same with visiting the Oracle in Athens. They could have deposited you right at the doorsteps of the temple to move the story along but then Ares' assault on Athens would just be something they told you about and for whatever reason the temple was almost completely ignored by Ares' forces. Just as the saying goes: "Show, don't tell" the game uses the philosophy "Let the gamer play it, do not just explain it."
Enemy room after enemy room in the temple of Pandora? It was designed as a deathtrap.
Even escaping Hades with the spinning blades can be justified because it would be kind of weird if it was really easy to leave the underworld. Why wouldn't everyone just do it?

I suppose this is comparing a very linear game to an RPG, so the gameplay can be more controlled. However, the kind of padding that Bragr described still seems excessive and it shows that padding is not a significant presence in every game.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Fare thee well]

I just didn't grow up with a lot of weeb stuff, so the style has no appeal or emotional impact for me. Believe me, I've tried. Most of my friends are into that as well so they definitely got me to try.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Just sounds like someone who doesn't like RPGs much in general. Everything this dude describes, I'm like "Yeah, isn't it fucking awesome?! A slow burn storyline with multiple moving pieces and plot points that get their own respective segment to really hammer the relevance home, be it in a mission, dungeon or side quest, culminating in a powerful ending!"

 

[cireza]

Play XIII-2 and Lightning Returns.

But overall yes, telling stories and taking the time to do it, as well as having an epic ending, is pretty much what you expect in RPGs.

 

[DrJamesOxford]

Reading the thread title gave me an instant headache - I can only imagine what it must be like for the OP

 

[MajinSweet4]

Agreed OP. Most Final Fantasy games have shockingly shallow combat systems as well. These games are hard carried by the set pieces, like you mentioned. And the overall presentation. Such as the music, graphics and character designs. But even that stuff doesn't work as the majority of these games are horribly written, and many of them flat out fall apart.

 

[anothertech]

Not everyone has to love jrpgs.

Shocker I know.

 

[Neff]

I played through 6,7,8,9,10, 13, and 15

it's not for you so stop

And every time fans speak about the game, they always conveniently only mention the big story arcs or the music and completely ignore most of the game they actually played.

That's because it kind of goes without saying that Final Fantasy fans like Final Fantasy gameplay.

 

[Shadowplay1979]

What the heck is a Zoomer?

A nihilist who deconstructs everything and hates everything unless it fits into a very narrow band, unable to enjoy life they tell you how you should also not enjoy those things and everything that came before them is wrong.

 

[emivita]

What the heck is a Zoomer?

Basically a tipical Fortnite player.

 

[Neff]

What the heck is a Zoomer?

Someone who has spent the majority if not the entirety of their lives in the internet era and is therefore cursed with an excessive sense of entitlement, an unshakable belief that technology solves all problems, severe malnourishment in terms of life experiences, a quest to aggressively consume disposable media and an inevitable robotic indifference to it, inarticulate mumbling, and a complete and total lack of emotions resulting in an addiction to reaction videos so they can savour someone else's.

 

[MagiusNecros]

The only good Final Fantasies have GILGAMESH in them. So play those?

Also the image is incorrect. It's 10% nonsensical story, 10% padding and 10% emotional payoff to remind you of how strong the games actually are. The other 70% is PURE GILGAMESH ENERGY.

NGAAAH FLY ENKIDU!

 

[Isa]

LWC, noice.

But seriously I think a good deal of the investment from gamers back then came from the limitations of the medium at the time. I mean hell short arcade and home experiences were the norm, and suddenly we had extremely ambitious games trying to make grandiose adventures. It was revolutionary, the depth and presentation was almost unparalleled. Art, music, gfx and the variety thereof(biomes, enemies, fx, bosses). Plus, instead of a restarting arcade style experience ala quarter munchers and early console games, the adventure continued from where the player left off, and they could try to force the story forward or explore and grind or do side quests etc.

That alone did wonders for the medium. Like I get what you are saying, you aren't a fan of the slow burn large time investment, not to mention the subjective tastes that everyone has. I loved the FF series growing up, and still hope they turn out good. But my tastes have changed somewhat and I find other Jrpgs lightyears beyond them in several aspects. But I think looking back at the franchise, as other franchises as well, it helps to have some perspective and consider the timeframe and what was available in the moment. Hindsight isn't always 20/20. I mean were talking barriers in tech, memory, language, game design, time constraints and much more. And finally some people really enjoy a long-winded experience. Its what draws my girl into Jrpgs, as it allows her more time to connect or bond with the characters and stories. One could look at any medium and nitpick, hell in cinema most are roughly 90 minute affairs where characters who've never met supposedly fall in love, have sex, and are willing to die for each other in laughably short timeframes, always get the baddy, never miss the critical shot etc.

So yeah, its all subjective but I'm not going to rail on specific franchises, I'd rather go play something I enjoy more. I'll always have fond memories of FF1,4,6,7,8, and 9. It really is the whole package, the art, music, gameplay and adventure. And some of the stories were really touching. But I'd rather play other Jrpgs as I feel they capture what I love about the genre better than FF at this point.