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Hot Mom Defends Herself Against Facebook Haters, gives a non-apology

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S

Seanspeed

Banned
Zoe said:
That said, as a fattie who does not respond well to these kinds of messages, it is definitely negative to me.
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Ok, so fair enough, you don't get anything from this. But there is no one universal way to inspire and motivate the entire overweight population. If this helps just some people, cant you just be happy for them and accept this didn't do it for you? Are you actually upset by this? If you are upset by it, why?
 
G

GravityMan

Member
Good for her. Most people who are upset by this are likely insecure themselves. I do think she could have chosen her words a little more tactfully while still getting her point across effectively. Her intent was to challenge other mothers in a motivational sense, which is good...but not everyone is going to interpret her words that way. Plus, for some women it's probably very difficult or impossible to obtain a body like hers after childbirth, due to natural build type, genes, etc. Lastly some people may get the impression that this women is exuding an air of superiority over them and that can cause resentment and ire.

I'm happy for her, but if she had exercised a little more tact this wouldn't be a controversy or a news story in the first place.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Seanspeed said:
Ok, so fair enough, you don't get anything from this. But there is no one universal way to inspire and motivate the entire overweight population. If this helps just some people, cant you just be happy for them and accept this didn't do it for you? Are you actually upset by this? If you are upset by it, why?
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I'm not upset by the picture or even her responses after the fact. I think it was a stupid marketing choice that will harm her brand.

What upsets me is all the posters in here saying that fat people should be shamed into submission.
 
J

Jest Chillin

Member
Seanspeed said:
Her intent is obvious to anyone who is willing to understand her point and isn't just immediately trying to find something to be upset about for whatever reason.

Again, I put this down to people not realizing that weight loss isn't as difficult as they think. They see this, think, "Oh yea, like anybody could do that, pffft", and then deride her for being arrogant. People that do realize that weight loss isn't as tortuous as many make it out to be and isn't all 'a matter of genes' see it and think, "Damn right. People CAN do that!"

Was this effective? Not for a lot of people, obviously. But that's not on this woman. That's the fault of all these people who don't know what they're talking about. This woman is not responsible for the livelihood of the entire world's waistline. She made a little 'poster' thing that was meant to be motivational and people are completely missing the point and are wasting their time being upset at it. Its nonsense. And while you may not be judging her, plenty of others clearly are. Its not fair whatsoever.
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Her intent really isn't obvious given the picture alone. It's just as likely that she could have intended it as a put down as it is that she's trying to motivate. Had she gone the positive route, then there would be no mystery and no one would be offended. The fact that there is a blacklash should make this very apparent.

You seem to feel like all of the negativity stems from people who are out of shape and don't strive to better themselves. I don't think it is. And I think anyone viewing this from a neutral perspective could easily see how people would be offended, even if that neutral person didn't find it offensive themselves. You can try to turn it into a conversation about weight loss and the negative perceptions about effort regarding weight loss all you want but that's not the primary cause of the backlash at all. Again, if you put that same "What's your excuse?" phrase on a photo of anyone in any exceptional situation, it will come across as negative.

Of course Maria Kang isn't responsible for everyone's physical condition. No on is insinuating that she is. What she is responsible for is the tone of her message and whether intentionally insulting or not, she chose it. She put it out there. So others are going to react. She doesn't deserve all the nasty personal attacks at all. There's always someone who is going to be excessive though.
 
P

Petrie

Banned
Zoe said:
I'm not upset by the picture or even her responses after the fact. I think it was a stupid marketing choice that will harm her brand.

What upsets me is all the posters in here saying that fat people should be shamed into submission.
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I just don't think it's anyone's job to tell them how awesome they are. This woman didn't shame anyone.
 
D

Demon Ice

Banned
potam said:
mistake: Oh I made a mistake and became fat, I done fucked up.

bad behavior: I behaved badly and got fat.

etc.: I'm a fat fucking failure.
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See, that's a HELL of a jump from "oh, I made a mistake --> I'm a fat fucking failure"

One is a reasonable admission for any adult to make. The other one is total emo-tween melodrama that was in NO WAY implied or hinted from that picture.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Petrie said:
I just don't think it's anyone's job to tell them how awesome they are. This woman didn't shame anyone.
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No one's asking for that. She could have been much more effective by saying "You can do it!" or even "I stopped making excuses". "What is your excuse?" is antagonistic considering the usual sentiment is "there are no excuses".
 
C

Count Dookkake

Member
Zoe said:
No one's asking for that. She could have been much more effective by saying "You can do it!" or even "I stopped making excuses". "What is your excuse?" is antagonistic considering the usual sentiment is "there are no excuses".
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But that assumes the reader is making excuses.

No matter how soft she made the statement, there would still be offense generated.
 
N

neorej

ERMYGERD!
its-neve-rtoo-late-to-change-life.jpg


Same message, much more positive.
 
P

phillipgessert

Member
Count Dookkake said:
But that assumes the reader is making excuses.

No matter how soft she made the statement, there would still be offense generated.
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Exactly, the approach is DESIGNED to be confrontational. It's motivational in the same way that tough love is, it motivates in its nastiness. Recognizing that it's snotty doesn't make people oversensitive or insecure, it's baked right into the message.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Zoe said:
I'm not upset by the picture or even her responses after the fact. I think it was a stupid marketing choice that will harm her brand.

What upsets me is all the posters in here saying that fat people should be shamed into submission.
Click to expand...
I agree with your last statement. Fat shaming is wrong. Even if it works for a few people, its no excuse to make anybody feel bad about themselves on purpose.

Jest Chillin said:
Her intent really isn't obvious given the picture alone. It's just as likely that she could have intended it as a put down as it is that she's trying to motivate. Had she gone the positive route, then there would be no mystery and no one would be offended. The fact that there is a blacklash should make this very apparent.

You seem to feel like all of the negativity stems from people who are out of shape and don't strive to better themselves. I don't think it is. And I think anyone viewing this from a neutral perspective could easily see how people would be offended, even if that neutral person didn't find it offensive themselves. You can try to turn it into a conversation about weight loss and the negative perceptions about effort regarding weight loss all you want but that's not the primary cause of the backlash at all. Again, if you put that same "What's your excuse?" phrase on a photo of anyone in any exceptional situation, it will come across as negative.

Of course Maria Kang isn't responsible for everyone's physical condition. No on is insinuating that she is. What she is responsible for is the tone of her message and whether intentionally insulting or not, she chose it. She put it out there. So others are going to react. She doesn't deserve all the nasty personal attacks at all. There's always someone who is going to be excessive though.
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Intent is supremely obvious. I don't even think that's arguable, to be honest.

I've also said how I understand some people would be offended. But that's only because they're being cynical or ignorant. Not because its genuinely offensive or anything. I can be understanding of why somebody does something, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it or be completely sympathetic.
 
O

Omegasquash

Member
I don't think she did anything wrong, here. Sure, it's not as soft and cuddly as some might like it, but it's a far cry from fat shaming as the internets have been accustomed to seeing.

She's in damn great shape, works her ass off for it, and has the right to show it off. Kind of offputting that her children are in the pic, but at the end of the day, what damage does it do?
 
R

reaver18

Member
Damm she fine.

But what do you guys expect? Facebook is all about showing off your awesome life and making others feel like crap.
 
S

Scrabble

Member
A More Normal Bird said:
That the meme frames "not being in shape as something that needs to be excused" is your interpretation. I see it as a response to the prevalence of excuses that are trotted out by people when explaining why they won't take the steps of engaging in diet or exercise in the first place. Obviously if you're not making excuses to begin with it doesn't apply, but many people do so. Whether it is an effective challenger of those excuses or whether it turns people away is up for debate; judging by this thread I'd lean towards the latter.

As for Opiate's examples, they were silly. The basic point that people have different contexts influencing their achievements is valid, but the specifics were not comparable. If you think the barriers to entry and amount of time, effort and even natural predisposition required to obtain a degree from a prestigious university are comparable to those required to engage in a basic physical training program you're either ill-informed or being dishonest. But Opiate's examples fail at an even earlier hurdle: he is comparing outcomes to processes. These memes (by and large) don't contain pictures of Olympic medallists or models or bodybuilders and then ask people why they haven't reached a similar level of achievement, they show people with a large disadvantage making an effort. The (purported) 102 year old on the rowing machine isn't going to win Mr. Olympia, but he is applauded for not letting excuses dissuade him. The woman in the OP isn't saying "I've had kids too so why don't you look as good as me?", she's saying "Despite having children I make time to exercise." Her appearance is simply a visual heuristic for confirming this. It may be an attention grabbing and obnoxious one, but that's all it is.

If you take a look at the fitness thread on this very forum (and many others like it), you'll find that most people don't care if you're fat or weak or skinny or slow, they care if you have a positive attitude and are willing to learn. When people say things like "I don't have 20 hours a week to spend lifting weights" it demonstrates that they are unwilling to put even the slightest effort into researching the topic and thus are "making excuses". It certainly doesn't help that vast swathes of the fitness industry peddle FUD aimed at confusing customers, distorting their body images and hampering their efforts to improve their health in order to prime them for continued consumption, but lashing out any time you're told that you've been sold a lie is a good way to ensure that you'll keep making excuses and that any effort you do make will likely be in vain.
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This is perfectly said, it's still hard to grasp how people became so upset and insecure with this photo.
 
H

hoos30

Member
Her critics should be lined up against the wall and slapped with gluten-free pasta.

This is more of that "everybody gets a trophy" bullshit that is ruining our kids. She worked her ass off to get that body and she should feel free to flaunt it, not be weighted down with the insecurities of random people on the internet.
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
hoos30 said:
Her critics should be lined up against the wall and slapped with gluten-free pasta.

This is more of that "everybody gets a trophy" bullshit that is ruining our kids. She worked her ass off to get that body and she should feel free to flaunt it, not be weighted down with the insecurities of random people on the internet.
Click to expand...

I think it's more accurate to say this is more of the narcissism, self-aggrandization, and attention-whoring that is ruining adults today.
 
D

Demon Ice

Banned
Dude Abides said:
I think it's more accurate to say this is more of the narcissism, self-aggrandization, and attention-whoring that is ruining adults today.
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I highly doubt she posted that planning it would go viral the way it has.

Really, the speed at which some posters and people in general are willing to demonize her for posting something so relatively harmless is a little surprising to me.
 
P

Petrie

Banned
Zoe said:
No one's asking for that. She could have been much more effective by saying "You can do it!" or even "I stopped making excuses". "What is your excuse?" is antagonistic considering the usual sentiment is "there are no excuses".
Click to expand...

neorej said:
its-neve-rtoo-late-to-change-life.jpg


Same message, much more positive.
Click to expand...

Nothing about the picture you posted motivates me. Different strokes.

It isn't her job to cater to the lowest common denominator.
 
goldenpp72

goldenpp72

Member
How I see it.. In my mind, 99 percent of women (or men) would like to be in equivalent shape as this woman (but with their own ideal physique in mind) and not being in that shape IS a failing. I'm a skinny guy with a bit of a belly, not proud of it, not going to kill myself over it, but it's certainly a negative aspect to me, if I could be more built or lean i'd certainly like to be, and i'm sure I could be if I changed my lifestyle up.

If you consider this woman to be gloating/bashing you/whatever, then it probably means you would like to have this and don't, right? I mean, if you're fat, or whatever, it IS a failing to most people, why is it not ok to simply accept it if you don't plan to change it? I only make a modest income per year, maybe I could make 80k, 100k, 500k! It's possible I suppose, maybe I could do some drastic changes and do better financially, but i'm cozy with where I am right now and while it is a failing, it's one that doesn't bother me much at all as long as I can get where I want to go. If you're not in the shape you think you should be, work on it, if you're content with it, then just be happy for this lady, shit.
 
P

Petrie

Banned
Count Dookkake said:
Not the same message at all. Yes, they are both about fitness, but that is all they share.

Also, if it is never too late, we can just wait until tomorrow and have some more cake.
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Exactly. The message he posted frankly is shitty: "don't worry you can fix it later".

Screw that noise.
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
Demon Ice said:
I highly doubt she posted that planning it would go viral the way it has.

Really, the speed at which some posters and people in general are willing to demonize her for posting something so relatively harmless is a little surprising to me.
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I highly doubt she's disappointed. It appears she posted it to promote her personal "brand" of Oprah-esque self-actualization, hence the listing of her website.
 
R

RM8

Member
Getting fit is a positive change. Not what your life needs to revolve around, but it's a very positive change regardless.
 
goldenpp72

goldenpp72

Member
Demon Ice said:
My life needs to be changed? Why do I need to CHANGE? I'm not good the way I am? What's wrong with me? I must be a fat failure. I'm offended. This implies that I need to CHANGE in order improve my LIFE.
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Having a flaw and accepting that flaw does not in turn make one a failure, because all people have flaws. Being fat is a flaw, lacking good hygiene is a flaw, having a job that's below your potential is a flaw. The point is, people excel and fail at different things, some more or less than others. If you as a person are comfortable with yourself, happy with yourself, and see nothing wrong with yourself, then these kinds of comments should NOT offend you. It's like being offended by being called a whore when you sleep with a lot of people, unless you literally are self conscious and feel ashamed of it, you should not care.

I could list 100 things about myself that are flaws, the difference is I am either working to improve them or, have made peace with them, so when someone says they make more money than I do, I don't give a shit.

It sounds to me like people want to remove all sense of critique or competition and want to be accepted as perfect just as they are, but this planet isn't your mother, and like it or not, people compete and compare.
 
Johnny Cage In The Shower

Johnny Cage In The Shower

Member
Like Blamespace said a few pages back though: You can argue she is not a condescending woman, you can argue her message is what it is, and it is up to the reader to interpret it however they chose to see it. Blah, blah, blah...

At the end of the day she comes off as someone I don't want to associate with, nor would I allow my wife to be part of her fitness program etc. She may be really passionate and good at her job (fitness training for moms) or whatever the fuk she is promoting with all those links on her poster... Bottom line, she rubs me the wrong way.. You could argue that it is my own insecurities that are making me see her under that light: And I will argue with you that life's too short to try to be patient with people who do not give you a first good impression, I will look else where, thanks.
 
T

todahawk

Member
Petrie said:
I just can't see how anything she did was anything but motivational. I hate this damn coddling culture we live in where everyone gets a trophy and told how amazing and wonderful and special they are. Tell shit like it is.
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"You are not a unique snowflake."
 
P

Petrie

Banned
Zoe said:
Except studies have shown that people who don't respond well to negative messages are in the majority.
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Great. There's nothing negative about her message, and those reading it that way have their own issues to work through unrelated to her picture.

Confrontational and negative aren't the same thing.
 
F

FallingEdge

Member
Johnny Cage In The Shower said:
Like Blamespace said a few pages back though: You can argue she is not a condescending woman, you can argue her message is what it is, and it is up to the reader to interpret it however they chose to see it. Blah, blah, blah...

At the end of the day she comes off as someone I don't want to associate with, nor would I allow my wife to be part of her fitness program etc. She may be really passionate and good at her job (fitness training for moms) or whatever the fuk she is promoting with all those links on her poster... Bottom line, she rubs me the wrong way.. You could argue that it is my own insecurities that are making me see her under that light: And I will argue with you that life's too short to try to be patient with people who do not give you a first good impression, I will look else where, thanks.
Click to expand...

It comes down to what motivates you. People yelling at me or ones with full of energy hypes me up which makes me want to work that much harder. I'm perfectly fine with people getting up in my face while others are not. You just have to find with what works for you.
 
O

Omegasquash

Member
SeanR1221 said:
Nope.

"Ok after this weekend I'm going to clean my diet up. I swear"

"Wow I didn't realize how busy I was this week. I'll start next week"

Never too late, right?
Click to expand...

Man I gotta get the kids to school this morning and I don't have anything healthy to eat so I'll just hit McDonalds and forget to buy something healthy at the grocery store and stay in this cycle forever because it's never too late.

That message in the image might work for some people as comfort, but a better message is to make a healthy change right now. Stop and think about your choices before you make a decision. The time and opportunity are there.
 
K

Kung Fu Jedi

Member
As someone who is quite fit and works out nearly everyday, I don't have an issue with what she posted at all. In fact, I kind of agree with it. I know a lot of people who make every excuse under the sun to not exercise and take care of themselves. That's their choice and I'm okay with that, but there are also a lot of people who complain about being fat but don't do anything to change their situation. Mostly they don't have the discipline do do anything about it and I get tired of hearing their excuses.

I'm sure my feeling on the topic falls right in line with what most others who are fit and workout regularly. I'm guessing those who are overweight and don't exercise see it from the opposite end of the spectrum.
 
D

Demon Ice

Banned
goldenpp72 said:
It sounds to me like people want to remove all sense of critique or competition and want to be accepted as perfect just as they are, but this planet isn't your mother, and like it or not, people compete and compare.
Click to expand...

Right. I made the post you quoted to demonstrate how one could act offended about anything if they felt like making the same leaps people are making ITT to be offended about the pic in the OP.
 
R

RM8

Member
As 25 years old skinny guy that would like to have abs like hers, can I really say I have an excuse? I really don't. Honestly it's indeed motivating to me. I don't feel attacked or anything.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Johnny Cage In The Shower said:
And I will argue with you that life's too short to try to be patient with people who do not give you a first good impression
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If you are conscious of the fact that your insecurity is what's making you feel this way, you're not only clouding your judgement of this person, but you're also then making life choices based on your clouded judgement.

If you want to live life like that, go ahead, but I feel bad for anybody that does nothing wrong whatsoever and 'rubs you the wrong way' and comes off worse for it. Hopefully you're not in charge of hiring people or anything like that.
 
K

kurbaan

Banned
Its funny... I don't think the lady's pic was for all the super fatties that ain't gonna get in shape anyways who are all offended by this.

its more prone to inspiring people who already are trying to get in shape but maybe aren't fully committed.

all the offended get over it.
 
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