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GuliKit Hall Joystick for Joy-Con

Tams

Member
They're finally available.

71nyvEIiNhL._AC_SL1500_.jpg




Before anyone goes 'Nintendo (or other company) should include these in their controllers!', look at the price for just a pair of joysticks. And note that even your good guys Valve didn't include them in the Steam Deck.

The 'elite' or 'premium' controllers are no excuse though, especially the DualSense Edge (at least those should be easy to swap out for some).
 
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jigglet

Banned
Before anyone goes 'Nintendo (or other company) should include these in their controllers!', look at the price for just a pair of joysticks.

To be fair, Nintendo would probably get a slightly cheaper price when ordering say, 20 million of them.

And also, I am now paying literally double the price for Nintendo controllers compared to just a few generations back (at least in my country).
 
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MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
Before anyone goes 'Nintendo (or other company) should include these in their controllers!', look at the price for just a pair of joysticks. And note that even your good guys Valve didn't include them in the Steam Deck.

The 'elite' or 'premium' controllers are no excuse though, especially the DualSense Edge (at least those should be easy to swap out for some).

I paid 60 EUR for 8Bitdo Ultimate controller and that came with HAL sensor sticks. Is it really unreasonable to expect it to be a standard?
 

Tams

Member
I paid 60 EUR for 8Bitdo Ultimate controller and that came with HAL sensor sticks. Is it really unreasonable to expect it to be a standard?
They only released that late last year, no? And it uses large joysticks, no?

So in that case, why don't you ask the same of 8BitDo? What took them so long as well?
 
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They're finally available.

71nyvEIiNhL._AC_SL1500_.jpg




Before anyone goes 'Nintendo (or other company) should include these in their controllers!', look at the price for just a pair of joysticks. And note that even your good guys Valve didn't include them in the Steam Deck.

The 'elite' or 'premium' controllers are no excuse though, especially the DualSense Edge (at least those should be easy to swap out for some).

Are they drift free?
 

Tams

Member
Are they drift free?
They should be*, but only time will tell.

If you need replacements, you might as well give them a shot.

*hall effect sensor joysticks can still end up with drift, it's just that it usually takes a lot longer as there are fewer parts that can wear out.
 
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We all already knew, but that price is ridiculous. Those things don’t cost that much to make, it’s just taking advantage of the issue while they can.
 

Lasha

Member
They only released that late last year, no? And it uses large joysticks, no?

So in that case, why don't you ask the same of 8BitDo? What took them so long as well?

$$$$$
Stick drift only became a big topic because the limited range of joycons. The switch can't compensate with a bigger deadzone since there isn't much tilt. Most PS and Xbox controllers have drift in some form. It's hidden until you plug it into a PC on software like flight simulator which has zero deadzone by default.

The Dreamcast had hall effect triggers and sticks 20 years ago. the N64 had optical sensors before that. The problem could easily be resolved but there is no incentive to change a profitable supply line for a problem most gamers won't notice. Peripheral makers have even less reason now that they can get people to buy "premium" controllers for a few hundred dollars then sell functioning sticks as 20$-50$ add ons.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
I paid 60 EUR for 8Bitdo Ultimate controller and that came with HAL sensor sticks. Is it really unreasonable to expect it to be a standard?
I’ll be surprised if they’re standard even with the PS6/neXt box - the everyday person will just drop £60 on a new pad instead of complaining.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Neat. The Saturn 3D Control Pad used hall sensors for both the triggers and stick. Dreamcast as Lasha said for all its issues followed suit. We're only seeing this as custom kits or premium gamepads now when back then Sega just saw it as an elegant, practical way to get analog controls at home 🤷‍♂️
Saturn_HSS-0137.jpg
 
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01011001

Banned
$$$$$
Stick drift only became a big topic because the limited range of joycons. The switch can't compensate with a bigger deadzone since there isn't much tilt. Most PS and Xbox controllers have drift in some form. It's hidden until you plug it into a PC on software like flight simulator which has zero deadzone by default.

you are talking about a completely different and absolutely not related form of stick drift.
and no, Xbox and PS controllers do not have big dead zones, many shooters let you turn off the deadzone completely (which I usually do, at least on Xbox), it's all about the game and what options it gives you.

the type of drift you are talking about is the drift you get from a not properly centered stick (worn out springs etc)

but the type of stick drift issue everyone is talking about is the one where the contact points of the potentiometers start wearing off and maybe even flake off, which results in falsely detected inputs no matter where the stick is positioned.
I for example have 2 functional PlayStation controllers left that do not have any drift, and these 2 are brand new (less than 4 weeks old). eveery other controller (which are all 1 or more years old) have a form of extreme stick drift. this includes like 4 or 5 DualShock 4 controllers and 3 Dualsense controllers... one of which is still kinda usable, the other 2 not really.

the most common form of drift on PS controllers from my experience is the left stick getting false forward inputs. my theory is that playing shooters and clicking L3 while runnign forward to sprint will wear down the contact on Sony's sticks. as someone who plays Apex I barely even use the L3, I use it to ping stuff and have auto sprint enabled, and I still get this issue maybe 12 months after using a new controller. it's almost like clockwork.

this has nothing to do with the deadzone, I literally have my movement deadzone in Apex on the highest value, it's simply a worn down contact point of the potentiometer.

joycons are even worse. these use a concave contact plate below the stick, and that shit wears off extremely fast.
Joycons btw. have WAY bigger deadzones than PS and Xbox controllers when used on a Switch. the firmware doesn't let you turn down the deadzone to the same degree as on Xbox and PS. in many shooters I can turn down my deadzone on the right stick so far on Xbox and PS that I literally start moving the camera by just lightly touching my stick... this is not possible on any Switch game I ever tried, which had the unfortunate sideeffect that my replacement 3rd party joycons with proper sticks can't use their superior mechanisms to their fullest.
that concave plate also more easily flakes off than on other controllers, and because it's a flat piece of metal basically, the flakes go all over the place and completely fuck your inputs, which is why drift is way more extreme on joycons than on bigger stick mechanisms.


this type of drift can basically never happen on a Hall Effect stick, the only type of drift you can get with those is when the spring wears down.
 
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Lasha

Member
you are talking about a completely different and absolutely not related form of stick drift.
and no, Xbox and PS controllers do not have big dead zones, many shooters let you turn off the deadzone completely (which I usually do, at least on Xbox), it's all about the game and what options it gives you.

the type of drift you are talking about is the drift you get from a not properly centered stick (worn out springs etc)

but the type of stick drift issue everyone is talking about is the one where the contact points of the potentiometers start wearing off and maybe even flake off, which results in falsely detected inputs no matter where the stick is positioned.
I for example have 2 functional PlayStation controllers left that do not have any drift, and these 2 are brand new (less than 4 weeks old). eveery other controller (which are all 1 or more years old) have a form of extreme stick drift. this includes like 4 or 5 DualShock 4 controllers and 3 Dualsense controllers... one of which is still kinda usable, the other 2 not really.

the most common form of drift on PS controllers from my experience is the left stick getting false forward inputs. my theory is that playing shooters and clicking L3 while runnign forward to sprint will wear down the contact on Sony's sticks. as someone who plays Apex I barely even use the L3, I use it to ping stuff and have auto sprint enabled, and I still get this issue maybe 12 months after using a new controller. it's almost like clockwork.

this has nothing to do with the deadzone, I literally have my movement deadzone in Apex on the highest value, it's simply a worn down contact point of the potentiometer.

joycons are even worse. these use a concave contact plate below the stick, and that shit wears off extremely fast.
Joycons btw. have WAY bigger deadzones than PS and Xbox controllers when used on a Switch. the firmware doesn't let you turn down the deadzone to the same degree as on Xbox and PS.
that concave plate also more easily flakes off than on other controllers, and because it's a flat piece of metal basically, the flakes go all over the place and completely fuck your inputs, which is why drift is way more extreme on joycons than on bigger stick mechanisms.


this type of drift can basically never happen on a Hall Effect stick, the only type of drift you can get with those is when the spring wears down.

The fact that you bought like 7 controllers for drift and never looked into how to fix them kind of makes me doubt your expertise on the matter. Your willingness to buy is also why companies don't use hall effect sticks. False inputs aren't binary. That's why it's solvable with software and some hardware solutions. I fixed around 200 PS4/PS5/Xbone/switch pro controllers with drift last year. I've probably done 500 total since covid. The issue happens everywhere.
 

01011001

Banned
The fact that you bought like 7 controllers for drift and never looked into how to fix them kind of makes me doubt your expertise on the matter. Your willingness to buy is also why companies don't use hall effect sticks. False inputs aren't binary. That's why it's solvable with software and some hardware solutions. I fixed around 200 PS4/PS5/Xbone/switch pro controllers with drift last year. I've probably done 500 total since covid. The issue happens everywhere.

opening up a Dualsense is a fucking nightmare. and it's not solvable with software btw. not at all.

on Xbox I never had any drift issues thankfully, it's only Joycons and PS controllers. I now use a third party joycon set with normal sticks (no, not the Hori shit-pad Pro, fuck that thing right to the moon).

it's only the Sony controllers giving me trouble, and those are also the most tedious to actually open up and fix without breaking something and without doing finger-joga to get them back together.
a friend of mine just recently opened up a Dualsense, and he is doctoring around with other controllers all the time, he's constantly modifying his Xbox controllers because he's very picky how every button and membrane pad has to feel like for his ideal controller... and even he basically gave up on ever opening a Dualsense ever again.

edit: also btw. most of those controllers are meant for local multiplayer, I just basically slowly ran out of controllers other people could reliably use :/
 
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Tams

Member
Neat. The Saturn 3D Control Pad used hall sensors for both the triggers and stick. Dreamcast as Lasha said for all its issues followed suit. We're only seeing this as custom kits or premium gamepads now when back then Sega just saw it as an elegant, practical way to get analog controls at home 🤷‍♂️
Saturn_HSS-0137.jpg

Guess who doesn't make consoles anymore though...
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Guess who doesn't make consoles anymore though...
Is it Nintendo, only having handhelds with TV out like PSP from now on? I dunno if they can backpedal and have a home console again but I could see something like having a Switch X and a VR system since they'd offer different experiences just like home consoles used to vs handhelds. But even in that case maybe it's better to combine it all in one like the Pimax Portal shows is sort of possible with some thinking since they'd both have to utilize pretty similar hardware anyway to be stand alone all in one machines (probably some new gen snapdragon now they're even getting ray tracing) 🤷‍♂️
 
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Tams

Member
Is it Nintendo, only having handhelds with TV out like PSP from now on? I dunno if they can backpedal and have a home console again but I could see something like having a Switch X and a VR system since they'd offer different experiences just like home consoles used to vs handhelds. But even in that case maybe it's better to combine it all in one like the Pimax Portal shows is sort of possible with some thinking since they'd both have to utilize pretty similar hardware anyway to be stand alone all in one machines (probably some new gen snapdragon now they're even getting ray tracing) 🤷‍♂️

It's not out of the question as the Switch Lite exists. But the Switch Lite was likely greenlit because of their past handheld success. And as far as I know, the Lite hasn't sold that well, though it certainly will have picked up some customers. As most of Nintendo's home consoles over the past two decades haven't done that well, I don't think they are going to go for a purely home console again. Sony's PS Vita TV not doing well (yes, I know some of you love it) won't have been encouraging in that regard either.
 
Neat. The Saturn 3D Control Pad used hall sensors for both the triggers and stick. Dreamcast as Lasha said for all its issues followed suit. We're only seeing this as custom kits or premium gamepads now when back then Sega just saw it as an elegant, practical way to get analog controls at home 🤷‍♂️
Saturn_HSS-0137.jpg
The Saturn 3d pad used a CPU for its stick. It was very unique in that.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
The Saturn 3d pad used a CPU for its stick. It was very unique in that.
Neat, any good info on that? Tteardowns/technical posts I've seen don't cover that and just mention the use of magnets and what not. It looks almost the same as the DC pad internally, perhaps that's further simplified which is a good thing of course (outside choosing less buttons & worse d-pad).
 
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Neat, any good info on that? Tteardowns/technical posts I've seen don't cover that and just mention the use of magnets and what not. It looks almost the same as the DC pad internally, perhaps that's further simplified which is a good thing of course (outside choosing less buttons & worse d-pad).
https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/202...aki-talks-saturn-dreamcast-peripheral-design/

Actually it's also the magnetic sensors.

TOSAKI: I don’t think that technology will ever be commercialized again. It’s not easy to design… All the original molds and production equipment for the 3D Control Pad were scrapped (It’s a 20-year-old product after all, so it can’t be helped). The 3D Control Pad measures the tilt angle of the pad with a magnet and a magnetic sensor. Due to its structure, it does not output in direct proportion to the tilt angle. It is rather output as a complicated curve. In addition, there is a tolerance in the output, depending upon the force of the magnet and the accuracy of each part. I simulated how much tolerance would occur with a supercomputer. Then, we completed an algorithm that converts the sensor value output by a complicated curve into a directly proportional output. It is programmed into the CPU installed in the 3D Control Pad. (Each 3D Control Pad contains a CPU and chipset). Of course, this custom CPU uses an old manufacturing process and can’t be produced now. I am proud of what a great product it is.
 

ZoolNL

Member
They're finally available.

71nyvEIiNhL._AC_SL1500_.jpg


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Before anyone goes 'Nintendo (or other company) should include these in their controllers!', look at the price for just a pair of joysticks. And note that even your good guys Valve didn't include them in the Steam Deck.

The 'elite' or 'premium' controllers are no excuse though, especially the DualSense Edge (at least those should be easy to swap out for some).
I have them in my cheap Chinese Anbernic. They also were default in the standard Dreamcast controller.
 

UnNamed

Banned
They're finally available.

71nyvEIiNhL._AC_SL1500_.jpg




I would buy these if they solve the problem for good.
 
Only £30? Do they make Switch Lite white ones?

Has anyone cracked them open to confirm it's actually using the tech as advertised because the design looks very much the same from the underside just wondering why that would be.
 
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jaysius

Banned
Going to be making these for the new Dualsense Edge (if Sony doesn't stop them)

Question is are they worth it?


See, they're hopeful that it'll be easier for the modular design, but I'm thinking Sony proprietaried the shit out of that design and has a bunch of gotchas that stop people from buying 3rd party sticks and sticking it in the Edge, it's clearly a big part of their business plan for that controller.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
See, they're hopeful that it'll be easier for the modular design, but I'm thinking Sony proprietaried the shit out of that design and has a bunch of gotchas that stop people from buying 3rd party sticks and sticking it in the Edge, it's clearly a big part of their business plan for that controller.
Thats kind of what I am afraid of as well
 

calistan

Member
Can't you just use something like this to clean the contacts? I use it on all sorts of 'stuck' gizmos, from the crappy headphones switch on my amp to sticky TV remotes to jittery sensors on old flight sim sticks. It's cheap, easy, and effective. (Note it's contact cleaner, not normal WD40)

RMFrwEn.jpg
 

8BiTw0LF

Banned
Can't you just use something like this to clean the contacts? I use it on all sorts of 'stuck' gizmos, from the crappy headphones switch on my amp to sticky TV remotes to jittery sensors on old flight sim sticks. It's cheap, easy, and effective. (Note it's contact cleaner, not normal WD40)

RMFrwEn.jpg
Yes you actually can. Just don't spray it directly into the controller. Disassemble it and spray it on the contacts.
 

Topher

Gold Member
See, they're hopeful that it'll be easier for the modular design, but I'm thinking Sony proprietaried the shit out of that design and has a bunch of gotchas that stop people from buying 3rd party sticks and sticking it in the Edge, it's clearly a big part of their business plan for that controller.

I wouldn't think being proprietary would matter in instances like this. I think this would fall under aftermarket parts.
 

jaysius

Banned
I wouldn't think being proprietary would matter in instances like this. I think this would fall under aftermarket parts.
If you look at the joystick modules, it's far more molded plastic than a 3rd party would probably care to recreate, and they might put something into the connector, which looks like USB but might have some kind of handshake that's hard to dupe.

What those guys are use to, is taking off a standard joystick mount, and soldering on a new one, with compatibility tweaks.

This is an entirely different ball game.
 

Topher

Gold Member
If you look at the joystick modules, it's far more molded plastic than a 3rd party would probably care to recreate, and they might put something into the connector, which looks like USB but might have some kind of handshake that's hard to dupe.

What those guys are use to, is taking off a standard joystick mount, and soldering on a new one, with compatibility tweaks.

This is an entirely different ball game.

Right, but does a standard exist for removable thumbsticks?
 

jaysius

Banned
Right, but does a standard exist for removable thumbsticks?
I'm not sure how your logic works.

You ignore finer points that someone mentions, to keep pushing the same point that didn't make much sense.

There is no standard for MODULAR removable thumbsticks, the best you'd hope for with the edge, is that you can somehow open that plastic up and remove the stick, resolder the hall effect one on whatever board is there, but thats even probably got some kind of trick to it. I highly doubt if some 3rd party made modules for the controller, they'd instantly work in the Edge.
 
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Tams

Member
Can't you just use something like this to clean the contacts? I use it on all sorts of 'stuck' gizmos, from the crappy headphones switch on my amp to sticky TV remotes to jittery sensors on old flight sim sticks. It's cheap, easy, and effective. (Note it's contact cleaner, not normal WD40)

RMFrwEn.jpg

That may help if you have gunk in it, but that isn't the issue. The issue is the surface of the potentiometer becoming worn down and therefore not making contact. A piece of cardboard can fix it.

But the point is, if you replace then joysticks with these, you should never reasonably have to take apart the Joycons again any time soon. Well, until the batteries eventually become too bad, but most people will have moved on by then.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I'm not sure how your logic works.

You ignore finer points that someone mentions, to keep pushing the same point that didn't make much sense.

Why are you getting triggered, dude? I'm not even saying you are wrong.

There is no standard for MODULAR removable thumbsticks, the best you'd hope for with the edge, is that you can somehow open that plastic up and remove the stick, resolder the hall effect one on whatever board is there, but thats even probably got some kind of trick to it.

Right....no standard so Sony had to come up with something themselves, not that they had to adopt a standard if one existed. So as you said, the hard part would be replicating the housing and interconnecting parts. But yeah, if a logic board is in there that prevents third parties from doing this then none of it matters.
 

calistan

Member
That may help if you have gunk in it, but that isn't the issue. The issue is the surface of the potentiometer becoming worn down and therefore not making contact. A piece of cardboard can fix it.

But the point is, if you replace then joysticks with these, you should never reasonably have to take apart the Joycons again any time soon. Well, until the batteries eventually become too bad, but most people will have moved on by then.
Well, I suppose it depends on the exact cause of the issue, but I've used it to fix potentiometer problems before. If the moving parts have worn down to create a dust or film that's preventing accurate readings, this stuff will wash it away very effectively. Also it's incredibly volatile, so even if you get it somewhere it shouldn't be, it will evaporate within seconds. I'd certainly try this before spending half the price of a new joycon on a hardware-based fix.
 

Tams

Member
Well, I suppose it depends on the exact cause of the issue, but I've used it to fix potentiometer problems before. If the moving parts have worn down to create a dust or film that's preventing accurate readings, this stuff will wash it away very effectively. Also it's incredibly volatile, so even if you get it somewhere it shouldn't be, it will evaporate within seconds. I'd certainly try this before spending half the price of a new joycon on a hardware-based fix.

The issue is that it's just going to happen again if you do that. These are a one and done fix. For most people they'd only do this for one set of Joycons anyway, as their others are likely to see much less use so therefore last much longer before wearing out.

And opening Joycons is a right pain.
 

jaysius

Banned
Can't you just use something like this to clean the contacts? I use it on all sorts of 'stuck' gizmos, from the crappy headphones switch on my amp to sticky TV remotes to jittery sensors on old flight sim sticks. It's cheap, easy, and effective. (Note it's contact cleaner, not normal WD40)

RMFrwEn.jpg
A little crumb was the issue with one of my JoyCons not registering downward directions, I lifted up the little plastic sleeve and blew on it, got the crumb out, and it's good as new again.
 

Impotaku

Member
I was planning on picking up a few to replace my sticks in my oldest joycons but from the amazon reviews it seems theres some QA issues with the sticks for some people with them catching on something inside the stick making them click & the movement jerk. Will wait a bit longer for the issues to be resolved.
 
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