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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

KyoZz said:
I'm really digging AC4 graphics, great art direction too.
But I think all the animation systems (running, fighting, platforming etc) should be completely redone. These games are really hampered by these IMHO. Anyway a few shots:

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That last shot is stunning.... but yeah I think that's exactly the problem i have with the game. I'm struggling to push past this to enjoy the games visuals.
 
Didn't know Duke RT was a thing



I know some peoples don't like this sort of stuff, and I agree OG art always has a special place, but its really fun to have these options. PC community modders are something else. 🫡
 
SlimySnake said:
I can promise you that the final game with get rid of all those dynamic camera movements that were clearly scripted for the trailer.

we've already seen the downgrade from the first trailer.
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First, you dont know that for sure, the dudes are clearly going for a very cinematic, immersive game.

Second, even with reduced camera movements, i still think first person is the right choice for ill, some scenes would not look the same with a third person camera.
 
From graphical standpoint Ubisoft delivers. All they need to now is to shed their woke embrace and just focus on bringing good games free from idiot political policy.

And of course they need to bring Prince of Persia Remakes with Anvil engine. They are so linear games, they can do it. Come on man, do it!

demanding do it GIF


Do It Reaction GIF
 
Gonzito said:
Why do you have those black borders in the corner? lol
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I think it is supposed to reprodue bodycam game look without actually doing what that game did aka typical: Inject REshade change some colors and suddenly bam this game looks super real (you just changed some colors bro nothing else)
 
viveks86 said:
Once PT is mainstream, it's the only area in game graphics that still has the longest way to go. Unlike PT, good animations aren't an exact science, so a lot of it comes down to pure artist skill, and very few studios have such top tier talent. The other is funding/resources for mocap. And even if those hurdles are crossed, there are CPU bottlenecks in how many animations a system can handle at a time. The CPU bottlenecks will likely be addressed next gen (some games are already doing it this gen by shifting a lot of physics to GPU), but the others are unsolvable problems without AI assistance. There's a lot of work underway to convert simple video feeds into mocap data. Combine that with motion matching and neural network based character movement/facial animation and a lot of heavy lifting can be avoided, without requiring skilled artists. Then the differentiation will be on the finer details that make the highest tier of games always standout that need that human touch.

Here's one that looks really promising on movement. Character is completely adapting on the fly with no canned animation, based on generative AI trained on hundreds of thousands of videos.



But all very early days. May be 5 to 10 years before something like that can make its way into games and animate 100s of characters in real time. May need another generation before consoles can handle them.
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Wow, great read Viveks, appreciate it.

I know you mentioned skilled artits and such, which is true, I mean look at ND and Rockstar their animation system is way ahead of the others it's not funny. But I also think not a lotta R&D have been put into this department the last decade at least. Heck, in some aspects, and I am going to use Sports games as an example, animations did regress. You have EA who introduced a bunch of new tech into their games, mainly Fifa/FC which resulted in their animations regressing in a lotta departments resulting in an inferior gameplay compared to older games. I've been saying a lotta vidoes of FIFA17 resurface on X recently and the amount of people saying it trumps FC26 is pretty huge.

The video you posted is awesome, the animations are better than anything I have seen. Reminds of me of the animations in TLOU2. When was it published? Also not to be that guy but even in the video you posted you can sometimes see the lack of weight on the character. I think imitating real human movements 1:1 in a videogame is still years and years away. Humans are complex creatures, we have skeletons, muscles, bones, veins, hamstrings, organs etc. so it ain't easy to replicate that.

Lastly, replicating human movements might result in people complaining about sluggishnes ala RDR2 where people said the game felt like a chore since the characters have weight to them (I loved them), as adding weight and locomotion to videogame characters will make them feel more sluggish. People are used to fast, snappy animations, which is why devs will always prioritize responsiveness over realism and for me it's the devs fault people feel that way. I think the solution moving forward is locomotion/weight/inertia to animations + high FPS (60, 120 etc), as the high FPS will rid of this sluggish feeling while maintaining realism but the tech is not there yet; until then responsiveness will always prevail over realism.

Apologies for the long post but I love this particular topic, talking about animations and physics, they are the only thing I enjoy more than graphics (we need 'animations we expect next gen' thread, people).
 
alloush said:
Wow, great read Viveks, appreciate it.

I know you mentioned skilled artits and such, which is true, I mean look at ND and Rockstar their animation system is way ahead of the others it's not funny. But I also think not a lotta R&D have been put into this department the last decade at least. Heck, in some aspects, and I am going to use Sports games as an example, animations did regress. You have EA who introduced a bunch of new tech into their games, mainly Fifa/FC which resulted in their animations regressing in a lotta departments resulting in an inferior gameplay compared to older games. I've been saying a lotta vidoes of FIFA17 resurface on X recently and the amount of people saying it trumps FC26 is pretty huge.
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Agreed. I think sports games have been phoning it in and have become yearly cash grabs for a while. The tech may be somewhat improving incrementally but the artistry and fun seems to be depleting. That's what needs skilled artists. Only they can find the right balance on what feels right. But yeah, tech has been languishing as well.

The video you posted is awesome, the animations are better than anything I have seen. Reminds of me of the animations in TLOU2. When was it published? Also not to be that guy but even in the video you posted you can sometimes see the lack of weight on the character. I think imitating real human movements 1:1 in a videogame is still years and years away. Humans are complex creatures, we have skeletons, muscles, bones, veins, hamstrings, organs etc. so it ain't easy to replicate that.
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The video is just from a couple of months ago. They published a paper back in April as well:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2604.24833

It still has a ways to go. It's too floaty and sluggish. But seems like that can be tweaked easily and sped up. The key to a solid animation system is user responsiveness. Even while falling, the user needs to have some control on weight transfer and in other cases, actions need to always be cancel-able mid motion. TLOU 2 nailed that aspect. I believe this is more important than FPS. The control should not be taken away from the player at any instant.

Even though Euphoria is more accurate and advanced, it never felt responsive. It waits for the whole damn animation to play out before doing the next thing. It sucks the fun out of controlling a character. Hopefully GTA 6 makes some crucial changes. They seem to be revamping locomotion quite a bit, but responsiveness remains to be seen.

Another cool technique that was published just last month. Sony seems to be involved in the research too.



They are calling it "score matching", which is a nice improvement on motion matching. Instead of just picking a canned animation from a motion dataset and blending it, like TLOU 2, it uses generative diffusion model to attempt to get to the closest match, based on all the current states. This essentially yields unlimited variations and adaptability, depending on surface, character position, physics, health, damage, posture etc.

This may actually be very relevant to sports titles as well. Recommend checking the full video.
 
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viveks86 said:
Agreed. I think sports games have been phoning it in and have become yearly cash grabs for a while. The tech may be somewhat improving incrementally but the artistry and fun seems to be depleting. That's what needs skilled artists. Only they can find the right balance on what feels right. But yeah, tech has been languishing as well.


The video is just from a couple of months ago. They published a paper back in April as well:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2604.24833

It still has a ways to go. It's too floaty and sluggish. But seems like that can be tweaked easily and sped up. The key to a solid animation system is user responsiveness. Even while falling, the user needs to have some control on weight transfer and in other cases, actions need to always be cancel-able mid motion. TLOU 2 nailed that aspect. I believe this is more important than FPS. The control should not be taken away from the player at any instant.

Even though Euphoria is more accurate and advanced, it never felt responsive. It waits for the whole damn animation to play out before doing the next thing. It sucks the fun out of controlling a character. Hopefully GTA 6 makes some crucial changes. They seem to be revamping locomotion quite a bit, but responsiveness remains to be seen.

Another cool technique that was published just last month. Sony seems to be involved in the research too.



They are calling it "score matching", which is a nice improvement on motion matching. Instead of just picking a canned animation from a motion dataset and blending it, like TLOU 2, it uses generative diffusion model to attempt to get to the closest match, based on all the current states. This essentially yields unlimited variations and adaptability, depending on surface, character position, physics, health, damage, posture etc.

This may actually be very relevant to sports titles as well. Recommend checking the full video.
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But that's the thing, responsiveness gets rid of realism in my humble opinion. You cannot have responsive animations and realism but I could be wrong. Humans in real life aren't particularly super responsive with their movements, some more than others depending on agility, what humans are, they are hella fluid with their motion, something we haven't gotten in video-games yet. The way to do this right now is through insane responsiveness and sped up animations which kill realism.

Tlou2 struck the perfect balance between the two, RDR felt sluggish but realistic and I think we got used to sped up animations to the point the somewhat realistic animations feel like a chore like RDR2. And I agree we need control over the animations but that, too to a certain degree. In real life when you are falling down for example you don't have control whilst falling. That's why too much control is also not very realistic!!

Edit: nice video. Keep sending me these please I love 'em.
 
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Will never understand the glazing. Easy to get good performance when you look like a last gen game compared to others current gen games. Hell i think it looks worse than some last gen games.

So dumb.
 
alloush said:
Man, I've never been on Era in my life. Don't even know what that website is about. Is it worth checking out?
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No. Not if you care about your mental health. It's full of mentally ill people off their meds hell bent on ruining everyone else's day. It's basically a mental asylum being run by the inmates. I was there for a little over two years and i was banned and warned over the most retarded of things. I once said that protestors shouldnt block bridges and at least let Ambulances pass after a woman died in the ambulance during the protest. They banned me for that. One time i got banned because i used the word oriental to describe chinese/korean/japanese asians when literally making a comparison with indian asians. A few people got butthurt and reported me to a mod i knew who gave me a warning saying you upset asians and then upgraded it to a ban after he was harrassed for not banning me.

And then there were console warriors who just reported the shit out of everyone. I got so many bans that just logging into era and seeing more than 5 notifications got me thinking i had upset a bunch of people. it was honestly a good thing i got permabanned, i was literally dreaming about getting banned on era.

P.S And thats just my experience. There were so many insane things going on in that forum its hard to list them all. One time the asexuals got upset because a gay black mod was like dude ive been through worse discrimination than you. they were like no, asexuals are worse off the black homosexuals. the guy was demodded and then permabanned.

The trans people would get straight men banned for saying they would never sleep with a trans person. There were so many trannies there that they basically were a mob and controlled the mods. They got cyberpunk threads banned because the official CDPR twitter account once joked you cant assume my gender when posting about a trans poster in the game. Or something dumb like that. There was no cyberpunk talk allowed until the game came out and they were forced to do an OT for it. That led to trans people leaving era saying the forum is transphobic. This after literally tens of thousands of people were banned at the behest of the trans community.

P.P.S they also protected pedos who had these secret discord channels where they would openly talk about pedo stuff. there were era mods and admins in that chat and allowed that kind of talk.
 
SlimySnake said:
No. Not if you care about your mental health. It's full of mentally ill people off their meds hell bent on ruining everyone else's day. It's basically a mental asylum being run by the inmates. I was there for a little over two years and i was banned and warned over the most retarded of things. I once said that protestors shouldnt block bridges and at least let Ambulances pass after a woman died in the ambulance during the protest. They banned me for that. One time i got banned because i used the word oriental to describe chinese/korean/japanese asians when literally making a comparison with indian asians. A few people got butthurt and reported me to a mod i knew who gave me a warning saying you upset asians and then upgraded it to a ban after he was harrassed for not banning me.

And then there were console warriors who just reported the shit out of everyone. I got so many bans that just logging into era and seeing more than 5 notifications got me thinking i had upset a bunch of people. it was honestly a good thing i got permabanned, i was literally dreaming about getting banned on era.

P.S And thats just my experience. There were so many insane things going on in that forum its hard to list them all. One time the asexuals got upset because a gay black mod was like dude ive been through worse discrimination than you. they were like no, asexuals are worse off the black homosexuals. the guy was demodded and then permabanned.

The trans people would get straight men banned for saying they would never sleep with a trans person. There were so many trannies there that they basically were a mob and controlled the mods. They got cyberpunk threads banned because the official CDPR twitter account once joked you cant assume my gender when posting about a trans poster in the game. Or something dumb like that. There was no cyberpunk talk allowed until the game came out and they were forced to do an OT for it. That led to trans people leaving era saying the forum is transphobic. This after literally tens of thousands of people were banned at the behest of the trans community.

P.P.S they also protected pedos who had these secret discord channels where they would openly talk about pedo stuff. there were era mods and admins in that chat and allowed that kind of talk.
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Famiboards is pretty bad as well.
 
alloush said:
Is it cuz it's too woke? Or something else?
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Hivemind and not being in step with that hivemind will get you booted no matter how reasoned your argument is. GAF isn't free of groupthink, but you are free to be opposed to it and not worry about a ban unless you are a total shitbag. Plus, having fun is encouraged here.
 
SlimySnake said:
No. Not if you care about your mental health. It's full of mentally ill people off their meds hell bent on ruining everyone else's day. It's basically a mental asylum being run by the inmates. I was there for a little over two years and i was banned and warned over the most retarded of things. I once said that protestors shouldnt block bridges and at least let Ambulances pass after a woman died in the ambulance during the protest. They banned me for that. One time i got banned because i used the word oriental to describe chinese/korean/japanese asians when literally making a comparison with indian asians. A few people got butthurt and reported me to a mod i knew who gave me a warning saying you upset asians and then upgraded it to a ban after he was harrassed for not banning me.

And then there were console warriors who just reported the shit out of everyone. I got so many bans that just logging into era and seeing more than 5 notifications got me thinking i had upset a bunch of people. it was honestly a good thing i got permabanned, i was literally dreaming about getting banned on era.

P.S And thats just my experience. There were so many insane things going on in that forum its hard to list them all. One time the asexuals got upset because a gay black mod was like dude ive been through worse discrimination than you. they were like no, asexuals are worse off the black homosexuals. the guy was demodded and then permabanned.

The trans people would get straight men banned for saying they would never sleep with a trans person. There were so many trannies there that they basically were a mob and controlled the mods. They got cyberpunk threads banned because the official CDPR twitter account once joked you cant assume my gender when posting about a trans poster in the game. Or something dumb like that. There was no cyberpunk talk allowed until the game came out and they were forced to do an OT for it. That led to trans people leaving era saying the forum is transphobic. This after literally tens of thousands of people were banned at the behest of the trans community.

P.P.S they also protected pedos who had these secret discord channels where they would openly talk about pedo stuff. there were era mods and admins in that chat and allowed that kind of talk.
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Are you serious? Seems like something out of Black Mirror or some shit dude.

Your post alone made me appreciate the shit outta this place. I mean you have GymWolf GymWolf always talking about his testicles, you have Gonzito Gonzito trying so hard not to show his homosexuality by constantly posting the "why are you gay" dude, and no one bats an eye.

How the hell did you last 2 years dude? I woulda been banned within 5 minutes.
 
bender said:
Hivemind and not being in step with that hivemind will get you booted no matter how reasoned your argument is. GAF isn't free of groupthink, but you are free to be opposed to it and not worry about a ban unless you are a total shitbag. Plus, having fun is encouraged here.
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Good God, dawg. I appreciate ya'll for the insights. I do feel like creating an account and trolling the shit out of them just to see how long I last there.
 
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Plus, ResetEras "Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen" thread SUCKS ass in comparison.

All they do is suck off devs in there.

One single mention of crunch and its literally hundreds of posts in a row of people acting like its the most horrific thing ever

There's this one poster, Loudninja or something, he's been there for like 10 years, and I've literally never seen him critique a single game once.
 
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Cant stop playing Black Flags. It's crazy that 13 years later the gameplay loop is still so exciting i find myself addicted to it all over again.

The graphics continue to impress as well. There are some Mayan ruins that have these pyramids built from white stone that look stunning. The water is just jaw dropping. I know i bitch about it not being a full on simulation like Crimson Desert, but i dont think ive ever seen water look this good in a video game. It's the perfect color of blue, but then at night it turns navy blue and during dusk the way it glistens as the sunlight bounces off of it is just gorgeous. I can just look at the water ripples all day. Waves during storms and choppy waters are so thick and bouncy they definitely put in a lot of work into the water. Id rate it above Crimson Desert despite it not being a full simulation. It looks that good.

I dont like the night time here. It looks fine when you are at sea, but any village or city just looks like ps3 era garbage. They need to do a better job with moon lighting in the cities. Crimson Desert had a similar problem at night time. Maybe add some volumetric fog like RDR2 that helps scatter the moonlight. Its just raelly really bad. I skip to daytime pretty much immediately.
 
Represent. said:
Plus, ResetEras "Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen" thread SUCKS ass in comparison.

All they do is suck off devs in there.

One single mention of crunch and its literally hundreds of posts in a row of people acting like its the most horrific thing ever

There's this one poster, Loudninja or something, he's been there for like 10 years, and I've literally never seen him critique a single game once.
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This.
 
SlimySnake said:
Cant stop playing Black Flags. It's crazy that 13 years later the gameplay loop is still so exciting i find myself addicted to it all over again.

The graphics continue to impress as well. There are some Mayan ruins that have these pyramids built from white stone that look stunning. The water is just jaw dropping. I know i bitch about it not being a full on simulation like Crimson Desert, but i dont think ive ever seen water look this good in a video game. It's the perfect color of blue, but then at night it turns navy blue and during dusk the way it glistens as the sunlight bounces off of it is just gorgeous. I can just look at the water ripples all day. Waves during storms and choppy waters are so thick and bouncy they definitely put in a lot of work into the water. Id rate it above Crimson Desert despite it not being a full simulation. It looks that good.

I dont like the night time here. It looks fine when you are at sea, but any village or city just looks like ps3 era garbage. They need to do a better job with moon lighting in the cities. Crimson Desert had a similar problem at night time. Maybe add some volumetric fog like RDR2 that helps scatter the moonlight. Its just raelly really bad. I skip to daytime pretty much immediately.
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It's better than the last assassins creed? The samurai one? I'm considering getting it - never played the og
 
Balducci30 said:
It's better than the last assassins creed? The samurai one? I'm considering getting it - never played the og
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yeah, shadows just isnt as fun as this pirate simulator. But you have to buy in to the whole naval combat which makes up the vast majority of the game. the story missions are meh like shadows, but i found exploring the islands for treasure, and getting into ship warfare a lot more fun. the story is also a lot more fun with all these legendary pirates showing up through out the story.

you should just try subscribing to uplay. you can play both shadows and black flags.

Gitaroo said:
We need a FC3 remake with snow drop engine but unfortunately if we get one it would be dunia engine
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the next far cry is built on snowdrop iirc. its in development hell though.
 
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Balducci30 said:
It's better than the last assassins creed? The samurai one? I'm considering getting it - never played the og
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Buy this game only if you like a pirate power fantasy, combat and stealth are beyond easy and basic, watch some footage first.

Naval combat is the only part of gameplay with some challenge.

It's a good game but far from perfect.
 
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