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[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Recently Im seeing more and more old school game developers/designers being mentioned or praised for something they did in the past. Obviously if they did something great, it should be remembered but some of them are still in the industry yet you can see they can never move past their previous achievements, like child actors who never got a role once the show ran its course but they still want to be recognized.

For me thats John Romero. Doom came out over 25 years ago and the guy after many failed indie/cellphone trash games went full circle and made a map pack for Doom, Sigil. To me thats just sad, that you arent able to evolve so the only thing you got going is to keep telling everyone what an amazing game designer you are....the last great design being 28 years ago. Makes you actually consider, how good of a developer/designer was he then?

Its fine if he retired then and there but he stayed just as did John Carmack. Carmack however with every new game kept pushing out new game engines, new hights to be reached constantly. Then he went into VR and launching rockets. The guy was part of the DooM saga but he always pushed for something new. Romero just goes around giving speeches how awesome he was for Doom and the rest of his attempts are all failures or uninspired products. And then he goes and makes Doom maps again. He never evolved or got on with the times.

What are some of your examples?

 

[petran79]

Andrew Spencer Studios

Andrew Spencer Studios is the company behind the Ecstatica series of games and the cancelled Urban Decay. It was founded by Andrew Spencer, who the company was obviously named after. Below is some additional information about the people behind these games. Before developing video games, Andrew...

ecstatica.fandom.com

Sad that this talented team never went on to complete Urban Decay and was disbanded for good

Before developing video games, Andrew Spencer studied mathematics, biology and computer science without majoring in either field. After this he began writing games for the Commodore PET, none of which were published, because the Commodore VC-20 came along and made distributing games for the PET pointless. Eventually Andrew Spencer began developing games for the Commodore 64, including the sports-themed titles International Basketball, Epyx Street Sports Basketball and most notably the highly successful classic International Soccer.
After a while he moved on to developing games for the PC, namely the Ecstatica games as well as the cancelled Urban Decay, and formally founded Andrew Spencer Studios. In the game's manual he is credited as the sole programmer, system designer and a co-director behind the original Ecstatica. For Ecstatica II he is only credited for system design and programming. He seems to have quit game development after the release of Ecstatica 2 and the cancellation of Urban Decay and currently works as a programmer at the Dynamics Research Group of the University of Sheffield.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

Phil Fish.

 

[JordanN]

He went from being redpilled on Japan's game industry to literally recreating the same mistakes that almost destroyed it.

After leaving Capcom, he basically tried to recreate his own Mega Man clone and it failed.

 

[Guardian's Light]

Game Freak, the thread.
Also known as: the guys who walk a step forward, then five back, and make small progress every 5-10 years in the best scenario
Sigh.

 

[ROMhack]

Rockstar thread?

 

[Spukc]

Gamefreak

 

[Ballthyrm]

It is not necessarily a bad thing to not move on.

Take Sid Meier for example, he stayed in the same genre of 4X his whole career and reinvented it multiples time to great acclaim. We got some of the best games ever made out of that.

Another example of "not Moving on" and fighting their way to success can be Hideo Kojima. He has been making Metal Gear for 20 years. Death Stranding is one of the few new ventures he has embarked on (Zone of the Enders being the other one)

I think what you are highlighting is people who fail to reinvent themselves.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Game Freak, the thread.
Also known as: the guys who walk a step forward, then five back, and make small progress every 5-10 years in the best scenario
Sigh.

They're still using Gameboy sound effects

 

[GreyHorace]

Denis Dyack surely counts no? The guy is still coasting on his success with Eternal Darkness and tried (and failed) to crowdfund a spiritual successor after his magnum opus (Too Human) failed.

I'd hate the guy if his fall from grace wasn't so pathetic to see.

 

[ROMhack]

Realistically, these guys:

Been living off the legacy of Dizzy for the past 50 years.

 

[brian0057]

Hideo Kojima.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

It is not necessarily a bad thing to not move on.

Take Sid Meier for example, he stayed in the same genre of 4X his whole career and reinvented it multiples time to great acclaim. We got some of the best games ever made out of that.

Another example of "not Moving on" and fighting their way to success can be Hideo Kojima. He has been making Metal Gear for 20 years. Death Stranding is one of the few new ventures he has embarked on (Zone of the Enders being the other one)

I think what you are highlighting is people who fail to reinvent themselves.

You misunderstood me. I dont have an issue with someone staying in the same lane. Every Metal Gear is better than the last. New tech, innovation etc. Sid Miers Civilization 6 is light years ahead of Civ 1.

What Im saying is if Sid Mier today in 2019 made a new map or mode for Civilization 2 thats 30 years old now. That is Romero. He only tried Daikatana, failed miserably and then next 20 years made some shovelware. Instead of trying a new fps he made a map pack for a game he made 27 years ago. He never let go, never made something new. Imagine if Kojima made new skins for MGS 1 instead of making 4 newer titles in the series.

 

[Guardian's Light]

It is not necessarily a bad thing to not move on.

Take Sid Meier for example, he stayed in the same genre of 4X his whole career and reinvented it multiples time to great acclaim. We got some of the best games ever made out of that.

Another example of "not Moving on" and fighting their way to success can be Hideo Kojima. He has been making Metal Gear for 20 years. Death Stranding is one of the few new ventures he has embarked on (Zone of the Enders being the other one)

I think what you are highlighting is people who fail to reinvent themselves.

Mantaining a similar or almost identical game structure like in First 3 ( 4?)MGS games isn't necessarily a bad thing, the First MGS trilogy managed to improve itself while not changing so much, and this is a great result imo

Not so many manage to do this, Doom is another succesful example, and Wolfenstein TNO too, old style, good improvements, great games

Pokémon is a disaster, like I said before, and it's painful 'cause I love this series since RBY and bought every single episode since then
SwSh still looks like a GC era game, and in general, pokémon games are always like a gen or two in late

Also Namco with Tekken, in some minor manneer
Doesn' t improve much, and when it does, is not always a good step forward

Oh, and Rockstar
Gta V And RDR2 still plays old and rusty as fuck
Great games but uhh, their engine / character movement / cover system etc.

 

[Deleted member 738976]

It is not necessarily a bad thing to not move on.

Take Sid Meier for example, he stayed in the same genre of 4X his whole career and reinvented it multiples time to great acclaim. We got some of the best games ever made out of that.

Another example of "not Moving on" and fighting their way to success can be Hideo Kojima. He has been making Metal Gear for 20 years. Death Stranding is one of the few new ventures he has embarked on (Zone of the Enders being the other one)

I think what you are highlighting is people who fail to reinvent themselves.

I'll never understand the people who leave their original companies because they are tired of making the same game only to make a new company to make a game based on the game they were tired of making and then their new company ends up going under.

 

[stranno]

Omega Force. They basically invented the third person cover shooters (Winback) and the Musou genre (Dynasty Warriors 2).

Since then they just do Dynasty Warriors clones with very little improvements in each license/sequel.

Not a complain, I love their games

 

[Guardian's Light]

They're still using Gameboy sound effects

You made remember me Pokémon's GB era bit cries, too. God.
25 years, still Pikachu ( and now Eevee) ar the only ones with a proper cry, If I'm not wrong
Not a problem for the other GB era effects like the save game one, or the menu sound, nice and lovely throwback imo
Scale models and graphic in general are the things who delude me more, just look at XD / Colosseum, look way better than SwSh

 

[KOMANI]

It is not necessarily a bad thing to not move on.

Take Sid Meier for example, he stayed in the same genre of 4X his whole career and reinvented it multiples time to great acclaim. We got some of the best games ever made out of that.

Another example of "not Moving on" and fighting their way to success can be Hideo Kojima. He has been making Metal Gear for 20 years. Death Stranding is one of the few new ventures he has embarked on (Zone of the Enders being the other one)

I think what you are highlighting is people who fail to reinvent themselves.

Zone of Enders is not a Kojima game.

 

[LazyParrot]

Carmack however with every new game kept pushing out new game engines, new hights to be reached constantly. Then he went into VR and launching rockets.

I'm not sure if I would describe it as "reaching new heights". None of the engines Carmack developed after id Tech 3 were all that successful or influential, and the handful of games that ended up using them didn't do so because they were just that great, but because Zenimax didn't want their studios to spend money on licensing fees for other engines. Oddly enough, id themselves wouldn't actually land another hit until after Carmack left the company and was replaced by Tiago Sousa, who did most of the work on id Tech 6 and Doom. As far as I remember his rocket company never really went anywhere and eventually got sold off, and Oculus hasn't exactly set the world on fire either.

I'm not saying he's a hack or anything, the guy is obviously a genius (much more so than Romero), but like Romero his reputation is mostly grounded in the work he did over 20 years ago.

 

[Deleted member 740922]

Jeff Minter and his shitty, trippy lightshow games. 30+ years of this garbage

 

[Starlight Lotice]

Ilzuka.

If only because he failed to even make a great sequel to NiGHTS.

Known for making Sonic edgy

 

[TLZ]

OP, that's exactly what you call, One-hit wonders.

 

[EightBit Man]

Nintendo, in more ways than one. On the one hand a good thing, on the other hand with certain things... Am I the only person who would love to see Nintendo leave Mario and Zelda behind? Remakes and remasters aside. They have many forgotten IPs that deserved much more love from it's own company.

 

[TacosNSalsa]

I'll never understand the people who leave their original companies because they are tired of making the same game only to make a new company to make a game based on the game they were tired of making and then their new company ends up going under.

It's like a chef saying he's tired if making only scrambled eggs , switches jobs and now only makes omelets...and they're not good at it

 

[Enjay]

I'll never understand the people who leave their original companies because they are tired of making the same game only to make a new company to make a game based on the game they were tired of making and then their new company ends up going under.

Yeah we all remember how bad death stranding flopped haven't we fellow time traveler. (jk)

 

[Zannegan]

Iga pretty clearly failed to move on with his new game, and I love him for it. Lol.

 

[AlteredForms]

John Romero is an interesting example to provide, because he was one of the few ID Software developers that wanted to branch out. Quake originally wasn't suppose to be another first-person shooter and instead an FP medieval fantasy game in the same vein as Hexen and Heretic.

After leaving the company, he formed Ion Storm and developed Daikatana and Anachronox, both of which were original for the time but failed to capture the attention of the public. Romero has been struggling as of late, but he was one of the few developers that did try something new.

 

[cireza]

Treasure. Still releasing the same games again and again. Makes me sad.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Good example of never moving on: M2. They got their start in the industry by porting the original arcade Gauntlet to Genesis, except they went so insanely overboard that Tengen published it as Gauntlet IV. Shortly thereafter, they shrunk Gunstar Heroes down to the Game Gear and it's considered one of the handheld's best titles (just look up those prices...)

Since then, they've pretty much stuck to porting and re-releasing games, and they are still the best in the business. Their current pet project is the ShotTriggers series, keeping the torch lit for us shmup fans.

Bad example of never moving on: Atari. Legendary company back in its day, but now they just re-release their own games over and over every couple of years. I think the lack of enduring mascots/franchises really killed them. It's like watching a retired 4-star general begging.

 

[cireza]

Good example of never moving on: M2.

I like M2 but I find that they are not exactly at the quality level they were some time ago. I find that the recent AGES games have often a few things that are a bit lacking, or that they don't add much value. Sound emulation in the MegaDrive Mini looks disappointing as well.

Recently they (or SEGA ?) have been announcing stuff that they will NEVER do, like translating games, releasing Saturn games etc... They are also doing the PCE Mini. There have been delays for Sega AGES too.

They should calm down a bit, and focus more.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

He went from being redpilled on Japan's game industry to literally recreating the same mistakes that almost destroyed it.

After leaving Capcom, he basically tried to recreate his own Mega Man clone and it failed.

And to make matters worse, it proved to be a thief, a liar who doesn't care about the players.

I know because I met him in person.


My respect for him disappeared after that dire game and his personality

 

[Generic]

He went from being redpilled on Japan's game industry to literally recreating the same mistakes that almost destroyed it.

After leaving Capcom, he basically tried to recreate his own Mega Man clone and it failed.

Controversies aside, the game was a positive surprised. Pretty unique/deep mechanics and a nice score mode.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Todd Howard. I think he was just what Bethesda needed at the time, and he still has good ideas. However, it does feel like in recent years, he's been riding more on his past accomplishments rather than what he did in the present day. And after the disaster that waa Fallout 76, something needs to change with BGS leadership. I think Todd should move more into an advisory role within Bethesda as a whole, but give somebody else the job of Studio Head.

 

[Ballthyrm]

Zone of Enders is not a Kojima game.

He was a producer on it. Yes he wasn't the creative director or lead designer but still an important contributor.

 

[brian0057]

Zone of Enders is not a Kojima game.

 

[KOMANI]

He was a producer on it. Yes he wasn't the creative director or lead designer but still an important contributor.

Zone of Enders isn’t a Kojima game. He’s the producer and opening cutscene creator.



Interview with the Director and Writer, Noriaki Okamura.
Source

I know. Zone of Enders isn’t a Kojima game.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'll never understand the people who leave their original companies because they are tired of making the same game only to make a new company to make a game based on the game they were tired of making and then their new company ends up going under.

 

[KOMANI]

Mate, you can show me all the wiki entries you want. I’ll go with the Director and writer of ZOE. Thanks.

Edit: btw

Zone of Enders isn’t a Kojima game. He’s the producer and opening cutscene creator.



Interview with the Director and Writer, Noriaki Okamura.
Source

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Jeff Minter and his shitty, trippy lightshow games. 30+ years of this garbage

That's what I thought of as well.
I kind of love that he is the way he is.
On the other side I feel redoing Tempest for the nth time must be grating...

 

[GrayFoxPL]

Jeff Minter and his shitty, trippy lightshow games. 30+ years of this garbage

That's what I thought of as well.
I kind of love that he is the way he is.
On the other side I feel redoing Tempest for the nth time must be grating...

Polybius is amazing.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Zone of Enders is not a Kojima game.

PT certainly was a project of his, quite different.

Also, the Snatcher games.

Certainly other projects I don't know about, I don't follow him much.

 

[KOMANI]

PT certainly was a project of his, quite different.

Also, the Snatcher games.

Certainly other projects I don't know about, I don't follow him much.

Policenauts too. But ZOE, Castlevania LOD, Boktai aren’t Kojima games even if he was a producer. It’s an attempt to beef up his profile or believing in the misconception. By stating that ZOE is a Kojima game is a disservice to those who worked on the game for 2.5 years while Kojima was finishing up MGS1, setting up MGS INTEGRAL, and writing and designing MGS2.
But you bring it up, and some think you’re taking credit away from Kojima instead of the reality, that you’re crediting the right people.

 

[brian0057]

Mate, you can show me all the wiki entries you want. I’ll go with the Director and writer of ZOE. Thanks.

Oh, right. What was I thinking? He was just an insignificant producer.
No involvement or influence whatsoever.
Apparently putting his name on the box of the game was a simple printing mistake.
My apologies.

 

[Deleted member 738976]

Yeah we all remember how bad death stranding flopped haven't we fellow time traveler. (jk)

I wasn't talking about that game?

 

[KOMANI]

A

Oh, right. What was I thinking? He was just an insignificant producer.
No involvement or influence whatsoever.
Apparently putting his name on the box of the game was a simple printing mistake.
My apologies.

aaand you didn’t read what i said or the quote, or the source. Good job putting words in my mouth.

 

[brian0057]

A

aaand you didn’t read what i said or the quote, or the source. Good job putting words in my mouth.

No one gives a damn who wrote the story or who really directed the game.
Kojima's name is the one being displayed in big, bright neon letters on the box and on the marketing. Not the director, not the writer, not the animators.
And considering we're talking about a guy who literally called himself a "god" in one of his games, I'm not surprised.

 

[KOMANI]

No one gives a damn who wrote the story or who really directed the game.
Kojima's name is the one being displayed in big, bright neon letters on the box and on the marketing. Not the director, not the writer, not the animators.
And considering we're talking about a guy who literally called himself a "god" in one of his games, I'm not surprised.

No, you don’t care who wrote or directed the game. Just cause you want to live in a bubble doesn’t mean we all do.
Again, I gave him proper credit. His contributions are documented.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

No one gives a damn who wrote the story or who really directed the game.
Kojima's name is the one being displayed in big, bright neon letters on the box and on the marketing. Not the director, not the writer, not the animators.
And considering we're talking about a guy who literally called himself a "god" in one of his games, I'm not surprised.

I love you, bro, but your hate for Kojima is only hindering you. Why so much hate for the man when he's made millions of gamers happy and inspired hundreds of developers, including the ones that created your favourite franchise Splinter Cell?

Kojima is changing to a better man these days. Last Thursday, I had some coffee with him during our lunch break and we talked about his past. I asked him whether he was proud of his achievements with Konami and he thought about it for a minute, but decided to node his head in a "no" manner. I was a bit flabbergasted and asked how come? He said to me that he was egotistical and at one point he called himself a "god". I told him one of my dear friends at NeoGAF didn't like that part of you: the egotistical, God-emulating persona that you possessed during your heyday. He looked at me and I swear, a tear dropped from his left eye and he said to me "I did not rike it." and then we went back to our respective cubicles and worked on polishing this year's GOTY.

 

[brian0057]

Why so much hate for the man when he's made millions of gamers happy and inspired hundreds of developers, including the ones that created your favourite franchise Splinter Cell?

My dislike for his work has less to do with the man himself and more with his influence over the industry (although the God thing didn't help).
His focus on cinematic storytelling and fourth-wall-breaking gimmicks are a plague on the rest of the industry when the medium can be so much more than that.
That's what makes MGS V my favorite game of the series; batshit story, repeating levels, and self-congratulatory cameo notwithstanding.
It's the one game in the series that focuses more on open ended style gameplay and systemic experiences than the typical Metal Gear game.

Kojima is changing to a better man these days. Last Thursday, I had some coffee with him during our lunch break and we talked about his past. I asked him whether he was proud of his achievements with Konami and he thought about it for a minute, but decided to node his head in a "no" manner. I was a bit flabbergasted and asked how come? He said to me that he was egotistical and at one point he called himself a "god". I told him one of my dear friends at NeoGAF didn't like that part of you: the egotistical, God-emulating persona that you possessed during your heyday. He looked at me and I swear, a tear dropped from his left eye and he said to me "I did not rike it." and then we went back to our respective cubicles and worked on polishing this year's GOTY.

I honestly don't know what to say.
Uhm... good?
Either way it made me chuckle.

 

[Tesseract]

sakurai

games got progressively worse and bloated

omega disappointment