Support NeoGAF

[Heisenberg007]

We're in a unique situation, which gives us an opportunity to have interesting conversations.

This is possibly the first time ever that PlayStation might launch a Pro console, while Xbox does not, and there becomes a huge gulf in power between the two consoles that have been very, very similar this generation.

But this topic is not about Pro consoles (or lack thereof). This topic is for current and future multi-console owners about whether or not the potential existence of a Pro console affects where you buy your games.

The base consoles, as awesome as they are, have been struggling to run demanding AAA current-gen exclusive games, e.g., Immortals of Aveum, Remnant 2, Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, etc. They can go as low as 720p with poor IQ and rudimentary raytracing settings -- which is not cool!

Upcoming AAA games such as Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Alan Wake 2, Baldur's Gate 3, etc. look amazing, but they will also likely tax these consoles significantly!

However, if there is a PS5 Pro console, there is a chance that these games will get updated (for free!) next year and offer a much better experience. That won't be an option for Xbox gamers if Xbox decides not to release an Xbox Series X Pro. So despite both paying $70 for a new AAA game, one group may have a significantly different experience.

Based on this, my question is:

• For multi-console owners: Is this a big enough deal for you to purchase all third-party games on PlayStation from now on (even if you prefer buying them on Xbox) because you may get free Pro upgrades down the road? (e.g., improved ray tracing, higher resolution, higher unlocked framerates, improved graphical settings, etc.)

Note: This is not about potentially buying a new console. This question specifically is just potentially changing the platform you buy multiplatform games on, because there may be Pro upgrades on one of them.

 

[64bitmodels]

The base consoles, as awesome as they are, have been struggling to run demanding AAA current-gen exclusive games, e.g., Immortals of Aveum, Remnant 2, Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, etc. They can go as low as 720p with poor IQ and rudimentary raytracing settings -- which is not cool!

Pro consoles should be an enhancement. Not a necessity. This is less of a hardware problem and more of an optimization problem. What we should be doing instead of pulling out our wallets for better hardware is demanding better from corpos and asking that they deliver a finished, functional, optimized product. They seemed to do that quite well not even 5 years ago.

 

[Optimus Lime]

I find that this is the easiest way to future proof my hardware:

 

[ReBurn]

Reality is that if you're worried about future-proofing your gaming investment then console probably isn't where you need to be spending your gaming budget. You need to be investing in PC. It's the only place you can feel some level of confidence that your entire multi-platform library will be able to run well into the future and that you will be able to play with better performance just by upgrading hardware. Console games largely had to be patched to perform better. It wasn't necessarily an instant benefit of a better box.

Would I buy pro consoles again? Absolutely. But not as some way to protect against the future. Pro consoles are about power in the moment. The PS4 Pro and Xbox One X will die at exactly the same time as their OG predecessors so there wasn't exactly anything they did to protect the future of your investment. Backward compatibility from console platforms is the best you can hope for.

This is possibly the first time ever that PlayStation might launch a Pro console, while Xbox does not, and there becomes a huge gulf in power between the two consoles that have been very, very similar this generation.

I don't understand this statement. First time ever? Reads like hyperbole. It implies that pro consoles are some sort of pattern we've come to expect as a norm over past generations. But we've only experienced a single console generation from Microsoft and Sony where they offered upgraded hardware. A single occurrence is not a pattern. Not sure why it raises such concern.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

A better backwards compatibility is more important.

If i wanna play my favourite game 10 years down the line, I want it on a system that allows me to do that with enhancements.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

A better backwards compatibility is more important.

If i wanna play my favourite game 10 years down the line, I want it on a system that allows me to do that with enhancements.

I agree, that’s one of the main reasons I switched to the only platform that guarantees that: PC.

 

[MasterCornholio]

A better backwards compatibility is more important.

If i wanna play my favourite game 10 years down the line, I want it on a system that allows me to do that with enhancements.

Both do that but PC is the god platform for BC. Why stop at max settings and 240FPS? With mods you can enhance your games even further. You can take something old like Morrowind and use mods to greatly enhance it for not extra cost.

As for mid gen consoles that's the only way to play current games better on consoles. It's a great option and one that can exist alongside great BC.

 

[ArtHands]

I find that this is the easiest way to future proof my hardware:

Yah. Its disappointment that we now have to pay and upgrade every 2 to 3 years on console now and making things complicated. The reason I have consoles is because they do not need constant upgrading.

If I want to regularly upgrade for power I'll buy on PC, which I did.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Even if there was a supposedly Series XL Pro and no PS5 Pro I'd still stick mainly with my PS5, Switch and eventually Switch 2, since a big part of the hobby for me is to have all if not most of the games I'm interested in getting either on disc or cart.

MS doesn't really care about physical releases anymore, heck, just look at Hi-Fi Rush which was released earlier this year and to this day it hasn't gotten a physical release. What gives, MS? There are plenty of Xbox fans who still prefer physical so why ignore them, especially with a beloved 1st party title like Hi-Fi Rush...?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I agree, that’s one of the main reasons I switched to the only platform that guarantees that: PC.

I am also looking at making pc my main platform in the future.

With my changed gaming habits, I play a lot fewer games but play them much longer / deeper. I inevitably will miss out on some gems. I want an option to play them in future if I get a chance.

Both do that but PC is the god platform for BC. Why stop at max settings and 240FPS? With mods you can enhance your games even further. You can take something old like Morrowind and use mods to greatly enhance it for not extra cost.

As for mid gen consoles that's the only way to play current games better on consoles. It's a great option and one that can exist alongside great BC.

I mainly like PC for flexibility. Mods or ultra / 240 fps are not my thing.

The fact that I can choose ray tracing or 100+ fps is quiet appealing.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I am also looking at making pc my main platform in the future.

With my changed gaming habits, I play a lot fewer games but play them much longer / deeper. I inevitably will miss out on some gems. I want an option to play them in future if I get a chance.

Same. When I was younger I used to blaze through games just to complete them. Now I play very slow, read all the available lore, item descriptions, etc. I stop and look around. Appreciate little things. I rarely even complete a game. Combine this with less time to play and my backlog is growing and growing.

Last week I was playing a little bit of Wasteland 3. It's a Microsoft first party game. They are praised for their BC and preservation efforts. So I installed it on my Series X. And yeah, it's not optimized for the newest console. It runs at 30FPS with resolution that feels like sub 1080p. Everything is blurry and it's a mess and feels terrible to play. I installed it on my PC. 4k. Sharp AF. 120FPS on a nice big OLED. Just a joy.

They can't be even fucked to upgrade their game from last generation to look its best on the new console. It's not just Microsoft of course, but this is a trend I'm not happy with. Yes, you have BC but it's very limited and can't really compete with what PC has to offer.

 

[Zuzu]

The OP was very well written

Yes it's now a major consideration for where I buy multi-platform games. While I won't rule out never buying newer multi-platform games on my Series X I think I will be tending to buy them on my PS5 now and one big reason for that is so I can get possible fidelity & performance upgrades when the Pro releases.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I am also looking at making pc my main platform in the future.

With my changed gaming habits, I play a lot fewer games but play them much longer / deeper. I inevitably will miss out on some gems. I want an option to play them in future if I get a chance.



I mainly like PC for flexibility. Mods or ultra / 240 fps are not my thing.

The fact that I can choose ray tracing or 100+ fps is quiet appealing.

If you want great BC PC is the way to go. And there's also emulation as well which can provide great upgrades to games you already own. It's possible on the Series (sort of) but PC is definitely the best platform for it.

 

[Robb]

Not for me. Xbox is only a GamePass machine for me. If a game releases on GamePass and Ps5 Pro (including a free upgrade), I’ll play the GamePass version.

 

[Vblad88]

I become console gamer for not need to care about „mid-gen” updates. I also plan my electronics purchases to last at least for 7 years. The way Sony release new consoles make no sense to me to buy a "pro" version, when in 3 years we will have another main iteration. Although I do care more about same-gen revisions, if they are faulty or not. So I waited with PS5 to have this 6nm version with more durable Dualsense controller. It is more important.

Every console is going to lose resolution/fps at some point...

 

[Hudo]

I find that this is the easiest way to future proof my hardware:

Yah. Its disappointment that we now have to pay and upgrade every 2 to 3 years on console now and making things complicated. The reason I have consoles is because they do not need constant upgrading.

If I want to regularly upgrade for power I'll buy on PC, which I did.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Zuzu]

.

 

[nightmare-slain]

I play on PC. A pro console would be a downgrade. If I get a console I'll be buying the cheapest option just so I can play exclusives. I'll maybe pick up a PS5 "Slim" instead of waiting for a Pro.

 

[FunkMiller]

To be honest, I might well just build a PC I can use the couch for next gen.

Consoles - other than Nintendo - are losing their point, with the reduction in exclusives.

OP - you should add moving to PC as an option to the poll to see how many are considering it.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Pro consoles should be an enhancement. Not a necessity. This is less of a hardware problem and more of an optimization problem. What we should be doing instead of pulling out our wallets for better hardware is demanding better from corpos and asking that they deliver a finished, functional, optimized product. They seemed to do that quite well not even 5 years ago.

I 100% agree.

I do believe these consoles have a lot of untapped power. Unfortunately, devs have and will continue to release unoptimized games that run poorly. Moreover, not all studios even provide aftersales support. For example, Jedi Survivor is still a mess AFAIK.

So while I do agree that devs need to optimize games better, we live in an unfortunately reality where that is not the case.

 

[Bernoulli]

I always get the pro because it's cheaper

Say i bought the PS5 for 500 and pro comes out at 600
I can just sell the old ps5 for almost no loss and get the pro
That's what I did with PS4

 

[Bernoulli]

And I still believe xbox will release a pro console
The spencer interview he said they are focus on the new series S NOW

They will probably reveal it next year

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Same. When I was younger I used to blaze through games just to complete them. Now I play very slow, read all the available lore, item descriptions, etc. I stop and look around. Appreciate little things. I rarely even complete a game. Combine this with less time to play and my backlog is growing and growing.

Last week I was playing a little bit of Wasteland 3. It's a Microsoft first party game. They are praised for their BC and preservation efforts. So I installed it on my Series X. And yeah, it's not optimized for the newest console. It runs at 30FPS with resolution that feels like sub 1080p. Everything is blurry and it's a mess and feels terrible to play. I installed it on my PC. 4k. Sharp AF. 120FPS on a nice big OLED. Just a joy.

They can't be even fucked to upgrade their game from last generation to look its best on the new console. It's not just Microsoft of course, but this is a trend I'm not happy with. Yes, you have BC but it's very limited and can't really compete with what PC has to offer.

Consoles will always have compromises in BC. On PC, " it just works" .

Personally am ok with Wasteland 3 type of situation. I recently played Fallout 2 at 640p resolution streched to fit my 16:9 screen. I have pretty high tolerance for this stuff. But it was pushing it.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Yah. Its disappointment that we now have to pay and upgrade every 2 to 3 years on console now and making things complicated. The reason I have consoles is because they do not need constant upgrading.

If I want to regularly upgrade for power I'll buy on PC, which I did.

Couldn't have said it better.

I understand this sentiment, but upgrading consoles is much less hassle than how it usually is upgrading PCs, no?

For example, I turn in my PS5 to Gamestop and get $300 credit and get a Pro by adding $200. With PCs (as awesome as they are, especially for future-proofing gaming), it is much more complicated.

 

[TrebleShot]

Steam is a great platform for this but it’s still a PC and all the idiocies and pain points of running games on PC still exist.

Truth is the games you mentioned also run like crap on PC and you need a 1200 GFX card to make them run at 4k60 so it’s almost a fools errand to use PC as a benchmark and think things will be ok over there.

I prefer the console experience and I want Sony to keep going with pro consoles so that we get better fidelity and optimised games on their platform. I have a big library on both steam and PS and I prefer the ease and “it just works” of console over PC tinkering so that is what will keep me coming back to consoles and future proofing…

But PC is ultimately best for older games as people have said the upgrades just happen.

It’s just a complete pain to use in a console like set up.

 

[Heisenberg007]

To be honest, I might well just build a PC I can use the couch for next gen.

Consoles - other than Nintendo - are losing their point, with the reduction in exclusives.

OP - you should add moving to PC as an option to the poll to see how many are considering it.

I thought about it but then decided against it - as it would dilute the focus of this thread. But it could be a new thread, considering the recent changes in the industry if console people are thinking about moving to PCs.

I wanted to focus this thread, not on PCs, but only on how potential Pro consoles (and subsequent free upgrades with better res, frames, and gfx) impact the buying decision and platform of choice.

 

[PeteBull]

• For multi-console owners: Is this a big enough deal for you to purchase all third-party games on PlayStation from now on (even if you prefer buying them on Xbox) because you may get free Pro upgrades down the road? (e.g., improved ray tracing, higher resolution, higher unlocked framerates, improved graphical settings, etc.)

As soon as i saw official specs of base ps5 i knew right away no point buying it coz it will be not worth it first 3 years with tons of crossgen titles, i hated last gen having ps4 peasant console while others bought ps4pr0 so knowing full well ps5pr0 is coming( coz base ps5 wont even run 1440p30 on the trully nextgen demanding games, as proof just look at the matrix demo), if u wanna have true next gen console u will wanna buy midgen upgrade.
Lets not even go into xsx/xss situation coz any1 even lil bit techsavy could easily predict they gonna get fucked hard(every1 except DF that sputed pure BS in their review about "best deal in gaming" , but they are heavily biased towards ms box as proven by them finally admitting of pushing face teraflop power narrative of xbox series x being visibly stronger from ps5, or them straight of denying any need for ps5pr0),

 

[Hudo]

I understand this sentiment, but upgrading consoles is much less hassle than how it usually is upgrading PCs, no?

For example, I turn in my PS5 to Gamestop and get $300 credit and get a Pro by adding $200. With PCs (as awesome as they are, especially for future-proofing gaming), it is much more complicated.

The thing is, with Pro versions of console also come settings menus in console versions of games. And if you go down that path then I'd rather have a detailed menu where I can set things up properly on PC than a dumbed-down menu that these console versions have. In my opinion, a console should provide players with the experience developers intended. If you start to offer performance and quality modes etc. then that goes away. And what you're left with is a dumbed-down, closed-off PC-like device that doesn't have the breadth and depth of a PC but also doesn't have the plug-and-play capabilities of a console. A console should be: Put the game in and hit play and you get the game as it was intended.

That is console gaming for me.

 

[Aces High]

I'm not interested in pro consoles. I was happy with my PS4 and disappointed with my PS4 Pro. The difference in pixels isn't worth the upgrade.

Console games have amazing image quality today. Most games have 60 Hz mode. Modern antialiasing techniques deliver impressive results. I'm happy with the graphics. PS5 is a perfectly fine gaming machine.

We were promised better games with the new SSD tech, but instead we get the same games since PS360 generation. Adding more pixels doesn't make these game better. There's still nothing on PS5 that can keep up with the technically flawed Bloodborne.

 

[Heisenberg007]

The thing is, with Pro versions of console also come settings menus in console versions of games. And if you go down that path then I'd rather have a detailed menu where I can set things up properly on PC than a dumbed-down menu that these console versions have. In my opinion, a console should provide players with the experience developers intended. If you start to offer performance and quality modes etc. then that goes away. And what you're left with is a dumbed-down, closed-off PC-like device that doesn't have the breadth and depth of a PC but also doesn't have the plug-and-play capabilities of a console. A console should be: Put the game in and hit play and you get the game as it was intended.

That is console gaming for me.

By "complicated" I meant upgrading all the different PC components and ensuring compatibility and synergies between them.

As far as in-game settings go, it doesn't necessarily have to be the case. For example, if a game had a dynamic res between 1080p - 1296p with frame rates drop up to 50-52 FPS, a Pro version can automatically clean that up.

Frames can lock to 60, while dynamic res can range between 1800p-2160p. Messing with in-game settings on console games are usually not very common at all. At most you get to select fidelity / performance modes. That's it.

 

[Hudo]

By "complicated" I meant upgrading all the different PC components and ensuring compatibility and synergies between them.

As far as in-game settings go, it doesn't necessarily have to be the case. For example, if a game had a dynamic res between 1080p - 1296p with frame rates drop up to 50-52 FPS, a Pro version can automatically clean that up.

Frames can lock to 60, while dynamic res can range between 1800p-2160p. Messing with in-game settings on console games are usually not very common at all. At most you get to select fidelity / performance modes. That's it.

If developers actually implement that kind of feature in a clean way...

And if you can build a LEGO set, you can build a PC. It's not rocket science.

 

[Fredrik]

I’m already playing multiplats on PC unless the couch is important so I’m not sure if anything is changing.

But I’ll get the PS5 Pro for Sony exclusives. Waiting for PC versions don’t really work for me since Sony never announce any release plans and we never know how long that wait is going to be. I haven’t played TLOUP2 yet, it released 3 years ago. Annoying. If I can get a PC-like experience through a Pro console without waiting then I’ll be there day 1.

 

[Aces High]

The base consoles, as awesome as they are, have been struggling to run demanding AAA current-gen exclusive games, e.g., Immortals of Aveum, Remnant 2, Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, etc. They can go as low as 720p with poor IQ and rudimentary raytracing settings -- which is not cool!

The point where this gets stupid for me as a consumer is when I play these "struggling" games and they are - at their core - worse games than what I played on my old systems.

The Last of Us Part 1 is a PS3 game and has much better writing and storytelling than any of the games you just listed. Bloodborne is PS4 game and has much better gameplay, atmosphere and lore than any game that came after it. Heck, even Doctor Mario from 1990 has a better gameplay loop than many modern games.

I get the feeling that some studios try to hide their mediocrity behind bloated graphics. And what's even worse is that these bloated graphics are in most cases just amateurishly implemented because, let's be honest, at the end of the day we all know there will be a Sony study that achieves better graphics with better performance on the same "struggling" hardware.

 

[Heisenberg007]

The point where this gets stupid for me as a consumer is when I play these "struggling" games and they are - at their core - worse games than what I played on my old systems.

The Last of Us Part 1 is a PS3 game and has much better writing and storytelling than any of the games you just listed. Bloodborne is PS4 game and has much better gameplay, atmosphere and lore than any game that came after it. Heck, even Doctor Mario from 1990 has a better gameplay loop than many modern games.

I get the feeling that some studios try to hide their mediocrity behind bloated graphics. And what's even worse is that these bloated graphics are in most cases just amateurishly implemented because, let's be honest, at the end of the day there will be Sony study who achieves better graphics with better performance on the "struggling" hardware.

Such is the state of the industry now. I agree. The quality of games has been on the decline for sure.

There is no real push for innovation or immersion.

 

[ActusReusJB]

The OP was very well written

Yes it's now a major consideration for where I buy multi-platform games. While I won't rule out never buying newer multi-platform games on my Series X I think I will be tending to buy them on my PS5 now and one big reason for that is so I can get possible fidelity & performance upgrades when the Pro releases.

Doesn’t the better backwards compatibility and performance enhancements like auto HDR, FPS boost, etc. mean you should purchase more for Xbox? While you might take a 1-2 year hit in performance, the track record on making improvements to prior gen titles is with Xbox.

 

[squarealex]

I find that this is the easiest way to future proof my hardware:

799$ the easy way and only for the GPU ? Huh...

Man, i'm again on DDR4, let me guess how many that's cost to me... ? (RAM, CPU, Motherboard)

The cheap PC fantasy no longer exists

 

[Montauk]

I just can’t believe that so many people are banging this drum.

We’ve barely started and you want new consoles? Developers need to get used to this spec.

Any Pro console would have to be more expensive and I strongly doubt you’re going to get the performance you’re fantasising about.

Half of you will either complain the Pro models were underpowered or you’ll be speculating on Xbox Series X Pro 2.

Buy a high end (expensive) gaming PC and just accept that consoles can’t give you what you want.

 

[Pejo]

Interesting that you leave PC out of the equation for this question, which is undoubtedly where you would go if you care about future performance upgrades offering increasing value on current gen AAA games.

Regardless of what PS5 Pro looks like when it releases, it is still going to be a very specific spec that cannot be upgraded. It also will not enjoy all of the graphics options that PC players enjoy (at least on good PC ports). Regarding playing console exclusives, I guess it could figure into your buying decisions. But again, I have to wonder, if you're worried about future proofing yourself, why are you buying a console anyways? Backwards compatibility has been up in the air pretty much forever, and only PC can retroactively play pretty much all games from all systems via emulation or native support.

Last gen, I bought a PS4 and then a PS4 Pro at launch, and I've never been so underwhelmed with support for it. It's worth it as an enthusiast where you always want to be playing the games in the best experience you can have, but honestly I don't even (personally) think that consoles are worth it anymore.

 

[Topher]

If a Pro helps improve image quality without sacrificing 60fps then I'm all for it. As things are, I'll only use my PS5 for PS first party. Everything else I'll play on PC.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I thought about it but then decided against it - as it would dilute the focus of this thread. But it could be a new thread, considering the recent changes in the industry if console people are thinking about moving to PCs.

I wanted to focus this thread, not on PCs, but only on how potential Pro consoles (and subsequent free upgrades with better res, frames, and gfx) impact the buying decision and platform of choice.

You also hit the nail on the head why the PS4 Pro came out in the first place, for the people thinking of moving to PCs

I do want the PS5 Pro next Holiday season to launch with a game like Wolverine, give me all the power Sony can muster for that game.

 

[Matt_Fox]

OP, 100% those of us who currently own both consoles (presumption is this consumer is agnostic towards console wars and has a certain level of affluence), this customer is likely to upgrade to a PS5 Pro and 100% of course - this will become their multi-plat machine.

 

[Humdinger]

I suppose if I owned a PS5 Pro, I would choose to play multiplatform games on it, yes. But I don't plan to buy one.

 

[Matt_Fox]

OP, I'd also suggest you consider doing what I have just done. Purchase a gaming laptop, bluetooth game pad and 70% sized keyboard/mouse, and use that on the big living room TV set as a console. It's pretty much friction free and has enabled me to play games without the compromises of the current gen consoles.

 

[Black_Stride]

I was an OG X owner, I got an X360 when everyone had one.
And even a VCR at launch(sue me), if I was to purchase a Pro console the Xbox is most likely.
If Sony is the only one doing a Pro console then I guess im gonna be upgrading my GPU in 2025.

 

[Luipadre]

You also hit the nail on the head why the PS4 Pro came out in the first place, for the people thinking of moving to PCs

I do want the PS5 Pro next Holiday season to launch with a game like Wolverine, give me all the power Sony can muster for that game.

I hope Death Stranding 2 launching in november too with ps5 pro support

 

[acm2000]

I've never purchased a pro console and don't really have any intention too, the cost of entry is too high when I could be spending the money on better things*

Spoiler

* like hookers and blow

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I hope Death Stranding 2 launching in november too with ps5 pro support

That one too and hope we see a Ghost of Tsushima 2 soon with Pro support as well.

I know I am probably in the minority but I would also love to see utrawide monitor support for consoles soon

 

[Luipadre]

That one too and hope we see a Ghost of Tsushima 2 soon with Pro support as well.

I know I am probably in the minority but I would also love to see utrawide monitor support for consoles soon

Dont think UW support ever coming to console. Its additional work for devs and the amount of UW users for console is really, really low

 

[DaGwaphics]

No, I skipped both last time.

I'm more concerned with the quality of the BC and what kind of improvements that brings with each new iteration of the console. Unless the pro was a massive enough difference to stand on its own as a new performance target for developers I'll just stick to base system for as long as that is supported, as do most users going by the numbers from last-gen.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Waiting for a "Pro" Console this generation has never been easier. Other than maybe less than 3 or 4 games, there's not much on either major console that I can't play on my PC and it was very apparent from the beginning that there'd be a "Pro" console coming that waiting seemed like the best course of action. And it's payed off for me to be honest. First time in over 25+ years I haven't been their day 1 and I've not really missed much of anything.

I have no intention of buying a PS5 or XSX unless there's a pro model. I'm not gonna pay that money to play at compromised resolutions and framerates.